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View Full Version : A call for better plane statistics in BOB and sound:)



Wolf-Strike
09-14-2005, 10:53 PM
One of the things that kills me in the IL2 series is the lack of info on each plane.You are lucky if you know what altitudes your planes engine is strongest at or the same with your enemy.So when online and you choose an HF MK-IXe......you really have no idea what this plane is capable of and I and many people arent adept at plane testing.This said,youll see many peeps say comments such as"well if they would only fight using their planes advantages they would succeed more"wtf...lol???

What I would love to see in BOB is for a super detailed listing of performance for each plane in the plane choosing screen for online and offline play.Something like what we have in aircraft viewer but while in game so you can see what your ride is capable of.

Say you choose a Spitfire MK-IX,you will get a screen that shows its performance statistics such as top speed at sea level "AND" at optimum altitude.What altitude to switch super charger at(hoping its still not only in the read-me).What is its cruise speed set at.What is maximum range when running at cruise speed.How long WEP is supposed to last(hope this time its realistically modeled in BOB).What is its max dive speed.What is its stall speed.What is its climb rate more standardized so we can better get a view of how well it climbs.What I mean is that now its climbs to 6100M in 5 minutes and next plane is climbs to 5000M in 4.5 minutes.This is way confusing in that I wouldnt really know which gets to 5000M first since one is at 6100M and the other is 500M.

If you choose an LF MK-IXe.....wouldnt you love to know its performance at low altitudes and what happens when you take her higher and vice versa for the HF and F models?

I know IL2 Compare showed this.What I am asking for here is in game and also better and more clear statistics.Also,we now dont have IL2compare anymore so...

Also I would love to see engine volume increase with power.So say an early 109 would start at low volume at idle and get louder as you increase throttle.This is done nicely in BOB2 so Oleg take notes.And now when we get to the late war horsepower monsters your engine volume will be even louder at idle and get even louder at full takeoff power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif.Would give you a great sensation of the late war power that was installed.

Ok,goodnite and S~~

Wolf-Strike
09-14-2005, 10:53 PM
One of the things that kills me in the IL2 series is the lack of info on each plane.You are lucky if you know what altitudes your planes engine is strongest at or the same with your enemy.So when online and you choose an HF MK-IXe......you really have no idea what this plane is capable of and I and many people arent adept at plane testing.This said,youll see many peeps say comments such as"well if they would only fight using their planes advantages they would succeed more"wtf...lol???

What I would love to see in BOB is for a super detailed listing of performance for each plane in the plane choosing screen for online and offline play.Something like what we have in aircraft viewer but while in game so you can see what your ride is capable of.

Say you choose a Spitfire MK-IX,you will get a screen that shows its performance statistics such as top speed at sea level "AND" at optimum altitude.What altitude to switch super charger at(hoping its still not only in the read-me).What is its cruise speed set at.What is maximum range when running at cruise speed.How long WEP is supposed to last(hope this time its realistically modeled in BOB).What is its max dive speed.What is its stall speed.What is its climb rate more standardized so we can better get a view of how well it climbs.What I mean is that now its climbs to 6100M in 5 minutes and next plane is climbs to 5000M in 4.5 minutes.This is way confusing in that I wouldnt really know which gets to 5000M first since one is at 6100M and the other is 500M.

If you choose an LF MK-IXe.....wouldnt you love to know its performance at low altitudes and what happens when you take her higher and vice versa for the HF and F models?

I know IL2 Compare showed this.What I am asking for here is in game and also better and more clear statistics.Also,we now dont have IL2compare anymore so...

Also I would love to see engine volume increase with power.So say an early 109 would start at low volume at idle and get louder as you increase throttle.This is done nicely in BOB2 so Oleg take notes.And now when we get to the late war horsepower monsters your engine volume will be even louder at idle and get even louder at full takeoff power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif.Would give you a great sensation of the late war power that was installed.

Ok,goodnite and S~~

new-fherathras
09-15-2005, 07:33 AM
yup

Wolf-Strike
09-15-2005, 02:19 PM
LOL

Danschnell
09-19-2005, 03:51 PM
Yes. All those thing would be NICE. We could see how our planes are supposed to fly... and if the Maddox team get it wrong the evidence will always be right there, glaring and obvious for fixing.

Something I also always found strong about CFS3 is that after every mission, it tells you what type of planes and vehicles you killed, how much ammo you expended, how many bullets hit, and much more. Mission feedback in IL2 is nearly nonexistant compared to CFS3. Some extra info would be nice.

LEXX_Luthor
09-19-2005, 05:45 PM
Danschnell:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">All those thing would be NICE. We could see how our planes are supposed to fly... and if the Maddox team get it wrong the evidence will always be right there, glaring and obvious for fixing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What if the statistics are wrong? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

What if a Patch changes the airplane performance? (okay, Patch the statistics)

What if the statistics don't match the airplane in the game at any given time in the Patch history?

The only thing this gamer community can do is conduct in-game flight testing, just like the real life (not dogfight gamer) test pilots had to do, and share the test data with the dogfight gamer community, just like the real life (not dogfight gamer) test pilots shared test data with the real life combat pilots.

And, if this dogfighter gamer community tests the aircraft themselves, and creates their own statistics to share with each other, then they have a better chance of convincing the Developer something needs changing.

The best surviving real life combat Aces became test pilots -- something to consider before we advertise to Oleg that we want "realism."

What would be nice is an in-game method of recording flight data and the game creates a data sheet. That would add a "Test Pilot Sim" component to the game.

HelSqnProtos
09-19-2005, 07:35 PM
S~!

Another ******ed nothing to say so make something up post by Lexx http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif The original poster had a point and I support his request.

LEXX_Luthor
09-19-2005, 08:05 PM
I am not sure. I would rather see a way for the game to record flight test data in a consistent manner for all people engaged in flight testing, and yes the original poster had some good points about being "in the game" instead of a seperate software package. A good feature would be the game recording test setups like fuel load, map used, time of day, weapon load, difficulty settings, etc... This would eliminate at once the request for data that is often left out of many player's flight test postings.

Wolf-Strike
09-19-2005, 11:09 PM
The game should show each planes statistics and what developer thinks the variables should be set at.Then we can have people testing to see if the planes stack up.

LEXX_Luthor
09-20-2005, 12:34 AM
I guess we can use more information in an aircraft viewer about gameplay items like supercharger altitude, fuel mix altitudes, flap settings, negative gee, etc... Protos may have a point about me being a ****** -- the players who most need Oleg to put the gameplay flying data in the game are the Offline players who never see the BoB webboard to learn about all the different flying techniques for each aircraft, and hopefully with BoB And Beyond all aircraft will become even more different from each other in terms of gameplay.

Wolf-Strike:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Something like what we have in aircraft viewer but while in game so you can see what your ride is capable of. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is what I find sloppy. Right now, the player can see what the ride is capable of in the aircraft viewer. Putting it in the running game (when flying) may make it seem chic or kewl, but would be a waste of time. To be blunt, real life pilots studied and compared data on different aircraft performance when on the ground, not while flying.

Wolf makes a good point about not putting flying procedures in the readme file. This should be in the aircraft viewer, and should be able available to print out to paper.

HelSqnProtos
09-20-2005, 01:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
This should be in the aircraft viewer, and should be able available to print out to paper. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Finally something intelligent. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Danschnell
09-20-2005, 08:17 AM
Wolf-Strike that's exactly what I meant, thank you.
If we were provided with a data sheet of what each plane is SUPPOSED to be modelled on, then yes, when things changed from patch to patch the in-game testers would be able to say 'well WHY has that now changed?'
For example, my 'Warplanes of the Third Reich' book says the Bf109E-4 had a 360 degree combat turn time of 24 seconds. The 'View Objects' section in IL2 says 24 seconds too. It tells us what is correct. So, if a patch ever made it turn better or worse than that we would all instantly know that something was wrong, and there wouldn't need to be any arguments.
A data sheet for each aircraft is needed.

LEXX_Luthor
09-20-2005, 08:39 AM
Danschnell:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and there wouldn't need to be any arguments. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Statistics won't change computer gamers fighting over flight models, and is why I focused earlier on the community doing there own testing. By definition, an Old Timer community that flight tests is a more disciplined community, and I think the game could be made to help standardize flight testing among all players who are interested.

Where the data can help is for Newbies to flight simming, for whom the data would be useful to learn the basics about the aircraft they are interested in, kinda like IL2 Compare, but in the aircraft viewer (not while in flight). Software generated data like that is only a rough approximation as Oleg said, and like Oleg told the community, IL2 Compare is good for a quick glance at very rough relative performance.

*** but then...I think IL2 Compare was a 3rd Party creation, and maybe Oleg could make one that generates the more detailed data that we want.

The solution for the flight model debates is for Oleg to make a Stalingrad Infantry Simulation with Dynamic Rubble. Infantry don't Whine about flight models.

Wolf-Strike
09-20-2005, 08:46 AM
Truthfully,I forgive Oleg.He started out with great intentions with aircraft viewer but got overwhelmed with the amount planes being added and so just quithttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Lexx Luthor finally says something intelligent http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.giflmao
What a great idea!Imagine a nice page with a small pic and a wealth of info on a plane.Now thats reason enuff for me to get a nice printer and some heavy duty color printing paper.Then we can just hit print and make an evergrowing manual as Oleg adds planes to BOB and Beyond.Oleg please add some immersion to plane pages with maybe some engineer tools and a blueprint background and a small pic of Lexx luthor right next to print button. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-20-2005, 08:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Truthfully,I forgive Oleg.He started out with great intentions with aircraft viewer but got overwhelmed with the amount planes being added and so just quit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
He quit before any planes were added. Su-2 never made it in the aircraft viewer in original FB, and still isn't there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif So don't blame the large number of added planes like Spit-9 or Fw-190A6 for example.

p1ngu666
09-20-2005, 09:36 AM
u could take the data from what is used ingame, load it from teh same place as the game must have details for each aircraft...

the history bit would havetobe written still tho

WWMaxGunz
09-20-2005, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wolf-Strike:
The game should show each planes statistics and what developer thinks the variables should be set at.Then we can have people testing to see if the planes stack up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So something like IL2 Compare wouldn't be out of line?

I'd be happier if the FM did not change after the product came out, as well.
Make it as right as possible first time around then no more poking.
Such a way, a lot of trouble is avoided for everyone even if some people will be unhappy.
Some number of people will always be unhappy, but the changes make it more people so.
Sorry but that is what I see.

LEXX_Luthor
09-20-2005, 12:39 PM
Max:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">then no more poking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If we know anything about software development, or real life aircraft engineering, that's not going to happen. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif I'd like to see more explanation of what was done to Patched flight models in the readme.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some number of people will always be unhappy, but the changes make it more people so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I-16 updated since FB 1.0 has made everybody ~very~ Happy. Oleg has done a fine job of updating FMs over the years. Bear puts it best. The computer gamers crying about Oleg changing FM are the same gamers crying about FM needing "fixing."

Asking for no future FM updates is a curious result of asking for detailed fixed FM data, a most fascinating development. I prefer updates if something is not made right the first time, as happens in real life aircraft design.

neural_dream
09-20-2005, 02:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wolf-Strike:
One of the things that kills me in the IL2 series is the lack of info on each plane.You are lucky if you know what altitudes your planes engine is strongest at or ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am working on that and i will share it with you in a couple of weeks, right after the 4.02 patch. It will be an easy-to-print pdf like my earlier cockpit reference guide (in my sig), but this time more like an aircraft&cockpit reference guide. All planes and as much info and tips as possible.

To get an idea these are the 16 threads till now:
16. A-20G, B-25J: &lt;A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6491088853 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6491088853)<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">(btw i need some tips for this one)</span>.
15. LaGG-3, Bi-1: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/3521095753
14. Zero: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6931052753
13. Buffalo, Wildcat, Hellcat: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6401059653
12. Sturmovik: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8461065653
11. Beaufighter: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8461022653
10. Me262,163,He162,Go229: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5111042653
9. P11c, IAR80,81: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=2...801042653 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&amp;s=400102&amp;f=2...801042653)
8. P40, P39, P63: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m...341014153
7. Bf109, Bf110: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5031062053
6. Ki84, Ki100: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/9451054943
5. I16, I153, I185: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/2921071943
4. Stukas,He111: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/3011097843
3. La5,La7: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/9311023843
2. CR42,G50: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5971000843
1. Ki43,61: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/7311047743

Some people in this community have realised that they need to contribute to Oleg's magnificent creation instead of constantly demanding http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.
I hope you will like my work and that you will contribute by sharing your expertise in any of the planes (follow the links above).
At the moment i am writing on the Mig-3 and the TB-3. That will be online later today (in the PF forum).

BSS_Vidar
09-20-2005, 02:50 PM
LOMAC has this and its far more complicated than IL2. It should be do-able. Kewel idea!

Wolf-Strike
09-21-2005, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wolf-Strike:
One of the things that kills me in the IL2 series is the lack of info on each plane.You are lucky if you know what altitudes your planes engine is strongest at or ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am working on that and i will share it with you in a couple of weeks, right after the 4.02 patch. It will be an easy-to-print pdf like my earlier cockpit reference guide (in my sig), but this time more like an aircraft&cockpit reference guide. All planes and as much info and tips as possible.

To get an idea these are the 16 threads till now:
16. A-20G, B-25J: &lt;A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6491088853 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6491088853)<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">(btw i need some tips for this one)</span>.
15. LaGG-3, Bi-1: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/3521095753
14. Zero: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6931052753
13. Buffalo, Wildcat, Hellcat: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6401059653
12. Sturmovik: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8461065653
11. Beaufighter: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8461022653
10. Me262,163,He162,Go229: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5111042653
9. P11c, IAR80,81: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=2...801042653 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&amp;s=400102&amp;f=2...801042653)
8. P40, P39, P63: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m...341014153
7. Bf109, Bf110: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5031062053
6. Ki84, Ki100: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/9451054943
5. I16, I153, I185: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/2921071943
4. Stukas,He111: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/3011097843
3. La5,La7: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/9311023843
2. CR42,G50: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5971000843
1. Ki43,61: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/7311047743

Some people in this community have realised that they need to contribute to Oleg's magnificent creation instead of constantly demanding http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.
I hope you will like my work and that you will contribute by sharing your expertise in any of the planes (follow the links above).
At the moment i am writing on the Mig-3 and the TB-3. That will be online later today (in the PF forum). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

VERY Kool!!!Thanks for the hard work to get this out to us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Willey
09-24-2005, 05:49 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif