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MINTZ2
08-07-2005, 02:31 PM
Is anyone as saddened as myself over the decision to let Pacific Fighters die on the vine? The patches give us new Euro maps and planes and ignore the Pacific theatre altogether. Just my two cents, but it`s a crying shame.

Mintz, VF-17

J_Weaver
08-07-2005, 02:50 PM
Well, I'm grateful for all the material we've been given. But by the same token, its a shame to see that PF turned out to be a lackluster attempt at the PTO.

VF-17_DWolf
08-07-2005, 04:09 PM
Hopefully BoB will get a Pacific Theater add-on in the near future. Maybe Oleg will make a annoucement when BoB comes out.

If I noticed the HL game room get about a thousand people in it, on any given night, when PF came out, I'm sure Oleg and team noticed to.

If he doesn't add a Pacific Theater to BoB, He'll just lose money. I sure wouldn't want to lose money on a money maker. Would anyone else?

Besides we know what to expect from Oleg and team now.

VF-17_DWolf.

JFC_Slumped
08-07-2005, 04:20 PM
Money has nothing to do with Oleg or 1C. Game developers get paid by publishers, and they look after the money & make the decisions. Including deciding how viable a title is to produce.

If UBI think there's money in it then they will give the go ahead. If not, Oleg has to find another publisher willing to support the title, and deal with whatever legal matter arise.

VF-17_DWolf
08-07-2005, 07:13 PM
I didn't know all the gritty details of how Oleg gets paid, You can add UBI-Soft or whoever else is in the pot to my above statement. Since the announcement that Oleg is about done with PF I noticed that Hyper Lobby's Forgotten Battles game site is getting less and less players.

Forgotten Battles with the AEP and PF add-ons has about 200 planes in it, and people want more!

How many of those people who want more now are going to get BoB with a small handful of planes in it?

I believe they will get more sales for BoB if people knew it would expand to the Pacific Theater.

I believe BoB will expand, but how far is any ones guess. Even Oleg and 1C and Ubi-soft and the rest of the pot.

VF-17_DWolf http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

heywooood
08-07-2005, 10:07 PM
How does anyone think that the PTO wont get the same shoddy treatment from 1c after BoB?

I guess you can hope for the best, but based on PF I wouldn't be too optomistic.

1c is dedicated to the European theater - they have demonstrated this already.

The Pacific theater needs a dedicated sim of its own because of the nature of it. It was a completely different type of air war than the war in Europe.

The emphasis on naval involvement in the PTO is the most glaring difference and must be thoroughly and accurately depicted for any true enthusiast to be satisfied - and I believe that the challenge is too great for any developer, even 1c, to overcome. I think that if you build your sim around the European land conflict and then try to add a Pacific element to it, you get just that...an appendage.

These simulation engines don't have the longevity they need to give the programmers time to model all the objects and variables needed to flesh out both theaters.

After seeing PF - I am left to hope that someday maybe, another developer will come along...and make a dedicated Pacific air war simulation.
All the ships - all the planes - all the maps - all the battles correctly represented and no excuses.

Heres to hope. But it wont be 1c, be sure.

SaQSoN
08-07-2005, 11:18 PM
He-he. I see a crowd of game-industry experts and 1C business planners have gethered here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Very interesting reads. You guys, should consider working for tabloids as writers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HotelBushranger
08-08-2005, 03:12 AM
Since the announcement that Oleg is about done with PF I noticed that Hyper Lobby's Forgotten Battles game site is getting less and less players.

Forgotten Battles with the AEP and PF add-ons has about 200 planes in it, and people want more!

Remember that not every single FB/AEP/PF player is online every minute of the day, if at all. There is a large percentage, I'd say majority of off-line players, whom unfortunately don't get their voices heard. At least with BoB you won't get an online majority http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif eeeeeveryone will be off-liners.

SaQSoN, is it possible for 1C to implement a multiplayer element into Bob, for say the next added theatre or whatever? Oleg will need this if the sequels are to succeed, and seeing it isn't in Bob my opinion (respectfully) is you guys better get cracking http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Thanks mate

SaQSoN
08-08-2005, 04:15 AM
SaQSoN, is it possible for 1C to implement a multiplayer element into Bob

May be, I didn't understood your question right, but who told you, the multiplayer is not planned in Oleg's "BoB"?
I believe, this is one of the key features in it, same as it was in the "IL-2" series.

nakamura_kenji
08-08-2005, 04:39 AM
he mix up oleg bob with bob2 that why think no mulitplayer

HotelBushranger
08-08-2005, 05:08 AM
Maybe, actually come to think of it I think so. The discussion must have been whether people would buy Bob2, and due to no multiplayer most won't. My bad http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

Bearcat99
08-08-2005, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by MINTZ2:
Is anyone as saddened as myself over the decision to let Pacific Fighters die on the vine? The patches give us new Euro maps and planes and ignore the Pacific theatre altogether. Just my two cents, but it`s a crying shame.

Mintz, VF-17

PF is far from dieing on the vine. The major problem I see with PF is the lack of a few more torp bombers..... other than that it is a pretty decent product. Does it have every ship and map in the PTO? Nope... but that in itself is no show stopper.. infact even the lack of more TBs isnt a show stopper.... I dont know about you guys but I will be flying 4.xx ad enjoying it well into 2006 as I really dont think we will see BoB till late 06 early 07 anyway....

LEBillfish
08-08-2005, 10:57 AM
I do "NOT" know this for a fact so is just assumption, however I believe this is the situation.

PF was "rushed" out for Christmas, my guess would be a Ubi decision to try and catch that lucrative sales time. However, Ubi paid 1c for "X" product, once done they may not have interest in paying for anything else.

What that means is, all the nice little extra's we have gotten past the original PF product are at 1c's expense....Meaning, they work to model it and add it to a patch, yet do not get paid for it.....Ubi having authorized work for BoB, so that which applies to BoB "somewhat" paid for....and 3rd party modeling must be correct or suddenly everyone is hammering on 1c for an inferior product. As we have been told, some 3rd party work was either not finished, or did not make the mark besides the sub-issues with royalties to greedy unjustified aircraft manufacturers.

That means this to me......We should be hammering on Ubi, NOT 1c if you want more. We got what we paid for and then some, if wanting more then what was promised offer to pay for it by making it clear you would "buy" a "PF-AEP" sort of thing. However, after the thefts of the original PF product it's hard to say how excited Ubi would be over another offering....Lastly remember, if the third party modelers do not come through, that is not 1c's fault.

Frankly, for all the free additions we have received we should be grateful....As that is money out of 1c's pocket, not Ubi's....So in a sense like you saying you'll work for free half of the year......How many of you would do that simply out of pride for something you made?....Well I believe 1c did....

IMLTHO

VF-17_DWolf
08-08-2005, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by SaQSoN:
He-he. I see a crowd of game-industry experts and 1C business planners have gethered here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Very interesting reads. You guys, should consider working for tabloids as writers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We aren't trying to be game industry-experts and 1C bussiness planners. We are just Bummed-out that a Great game is being dropped by Oleg and whoever else pulls the purse strings. We would like to see this game go on for a long time with more add-ons, and to see Battle of Britain be a great success and get a Pacific Theater add-on in the future.

No one is telling us much lately, so of course everyone starts to wonder what's happening.Last we heard is one more patch and that's it.

Some people are even getting Rowans:BoB2 mixed up with Ubi-1C Version of BoB. That would worry me if I was in Ubi-1c shoes.

We are grateful for all the add-ons, And the great detail that goes into this game.

It's probably time to move on to the next graphics eng. and we are all wondering what will become of this game(PF), and where BoB will go. And I'm not the only one that worries about this according to the forums.

Best regard's to you SaQSoN,

VF-17_DWolf

actionhank1786
08-08-2005, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by VF-17_DWolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:
He-he. I see a crowd of game-industry experts and 1C business planners have gethered here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Very interesting reads. You guys, should consider working for tabloids as writers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We aren't trying to be game industry-experts and 1C bussiness planners. We are just Bummed-out that a Great game is being dropped by Oleg and whoever else pulls the purse strings. We would like to see this game go on for a long time with more add-ons, and to see Battle of Britain be a great success and get a Pacific Theater add-on in the future.

No one is telling us much lately, so of course everyone starts to wonder what's happening.Last we heard is one more patch and that's it.

Some people are even getting Rowans:BoB2 mixed up with Ubi-1C Version of BoB. That would worry me if I was in Ubi-1c shoes.

We are grateful for all the add-ons, And the great detail that goes into this game.

It's probably time to move on to the next graphics eng. and we are all wondering what will become of this game(PF), and where BoB will go. And I'm not the only one that worries about this according to the forums.

Best regard's to you SaQSoN,

VF-17_DWolf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because the game has to be dropped. Like LEB said. Odds are good that Oleg and co. are still working on this game entirely out of pocket. It's like Lock On. Ubi stopped support of that game for the most part, and i'm sure they want Oleg to stop working on one of his games that's old, and move onto getting Battle of Britain out.

SaQSoN
08-08-2005, 02:46 PM
Ubi stopped support of that game for the most part, and i'm sure they want Oleg to stop working on one of his games that's old, and move onto getting Battle of Britain out.

Generally, this is the same what Oleg and his crew want (from what I understood after talking with them). So, at this part wishes of 1C and Ubi coinside.
And should I be at their place, I would have the same wish. To keep afloat, they NEED to move onto the next project. They already wasted (and still do)too much time on all this 4.01 and other free and Russian add-ons stuff.
As a gamer, I, certainly, would want them to continue on PF and FB. But from business point of view, I wish them to move completely onto BoB ASAP.

Tooz_69GIAP
08-08-2005, 02:56 PM
Yes, I certainly think it is time to drop PF and start working on BoB. I really think that people expect far far too much when they want support to continue.

The IL-2 series has received, over the past 5 years or so the best developer support that I have ever heard of. We have received so much in patches FOR FREE like maps, objects, planes, etc, etc, and we are even going to get some more stuff in a few weeks!! Again for free!!

Yes, there are glaring mistakes and ommissions from PF, but I have expressed my opinion before about PF, in that I feel it was a major screw-up, and is hardly representative of the PTO in my opinion. It would be nice to get some of these ommissions added, like better, more relevant maps, carrier borne torp bombers, some more Japanese aircraft, more types of ships, especially cruisers and battleships for both allied and Japanese navies. But there comes a point where it is no longer viable to continue support for a product, and I reckon that time passed some time ago.

Onto BoB I say!!

ElAurens
08-08-2005, 03:05 PM
I'm looking forward to a Spit Mk I myself...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

shinden1974
08-08-2005, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by heywooood:
How does anyone think that the PTO wont get the same shoddy treatment from 1c after BoB?

I guess you can hope for the best, but based on PF I wouldn't be too optomistic.

1c is dedicated to the European theater - they have demonstrated this already.

The Pacific theater needs a dedicated sim of its own because of the nature of it. It was a completely different type of air war than the war in Europe.

The emphasis on naval involvement in the PTO is the most glaring difference and must be thoroughly and accurately depicted for any true enthusiast to be satisfied - and I believe that the challenge is too great for any developer, even 1c, to overcome. I think that if you build your sim around the European land conflict and then try to add a Pacific element to it, you get just that...an appendage.

These simulation engines don't have the longevity they need to give the programmers time to model all the objects and variables needed to flesh out both theaters.

After seeing PF - I am left to hope that someday maybe, another developer will come along...and make a dedicated Pacific air war simulation.
All the ships - all the planes - all the maps - all the battles correctly represented and no excuses.

Heres to hope. But it wont be 1c, be sure.

I agree with your sentiments, though I don't think PF is all that shoddy. PF has given us old flight simmers something we haven't had since 1942:PAW. CFS2 barely counts and is reliant on the quality of work from it's community which provides little for onliners looking for a standard.

A comprehensive sim on even the theater level of the war has never even existed, the Eastern front and Il2FB included. The most successful and loved sims have always stayed focused, so you have a point, but what your asking for has really never been in existence. Il2FB fans are still asking for 'all the maps' and many more flyable planes.

I don't accept the premise that it's too challenging, even in this engine. There's a motivation and cash factor involved with something like PF. There's a lot of work, and PF got rushed, we got this. If everything had worked out perfectly, which It did not even come close to doing, PF would have been an excellent cover of the PTO aeriel war...and that's it, and all a flight sim can ever hope to be.

Question is, what do customers want out of a PTO sim? all the ships, planes flyable, maps? never happen...not in this lifetime.

A good general sim can be rewarding to the developers and decent to the public. PF tried to do that and couldn't get enough content to cover the PTO to anyones satisfaction. It could have been done however.

Maybe a lowering of horizons will help with the BOB line, concentrate on a battle or operation, guadalcanal, new guinea, PI, for example.

MiamiEagle
08-08-2005, 09:13 PM
I only wish Oleg and his team would finish what had started by finishing this program.

That would make me and perhaps many others very happy.

I hope he listens to us. After he has finishes it I do not mind if he moves on to the BOB project.

It would realy be a shame if he leave this project so imcomplete.

Miamieagles

VT-51_Razor
08-08-2005, 11:24 PM
It seems like every time this topic comes up, people keep talking about BoB eventually moving into the Pacific. To my knowledge, nothing has changed with the Intellectual Property Rights laws, nor has Oleg's feelings about how 1:C suffered at the hands of UbiSoft and Northrup. I don't think we'll ever see BoB in the Pacific. I truely hope I'm wrong, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

VF17_CRH
08-09-2005, 02:09 PM
I wonder how many people bought this game and gave up and let it collect dust?They should of made it a stand alone game. The bottom of page lower link has some interesting points for the new to il2 series of games buyer.
http://www.firingsquad.com/games/pacific_fighters_review/page3.asp

Tooz_69GIAP
08-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Pacific Fighters is a standalone game!!

NorrisMcWhirter
08-09-2005, 08:57 PM
Just wait until people find out that BoB is pay to play online. There will be a stampede back to Il-2


Ta,
Norris

pettera
08-11-2005, 03:15 AM
I think we have to realize that flightsims are not big moneymakers. For what we pay I think we get very good value for the money. Compared to the hardware (PC, screen, stick, loudspeakers, pedals, trackIR, broadband connection,...) the IL2 software comes pretty cheap.

You can always make a list of what is missing in this flightsim but if you make a list of what is actaully there, you get a veeerrryy long list.

The only way to get more, including PTO, is to put more money on the table. How to do that is unclear to me. One option would be to buy mission packages from 1C. But, marketing and availability from UBI could be better...

Petter

gundog212
08-15-2005, 03:18 PM
Tooz_69GIAP
Posted Mon August 08 2005 13:56
Yes, I certainly think it is time to drop PF and start working on BoB. I really think that people expect far far too much when they want support to continue.

C'mon... ANOTHER BoB game??? How many is that now in the past few years? The West Front Europe (and especially the BoB), have been covered ad nausem.

1C's approach to the PTO was a welcome look on this theater (I am not counting the MSCS-3 trash). Unfortunnately, for whatever reason, (annoying aircraft copyright issues, business decisions of 1C, or perhaps something else), but the bottom line is while IL2/FB have been well supported, the developers dropped the ball on PF, just short of what could have/should have been the crowning achievement and culmination of 1C's experience. What a shame!

So, go on with another already saturated BoB game(yawn!). I hope you'll do something different to make yours stand out among the crowd.

reverendkrv1972
08-15-2005, 03:44 PM
BOB will have the same effect on simming as il2 did when it first came out...

It's going to take simming to a completely new level,and there's no better place to start it,as the Battle of Britain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

then,It will progress,as il2 has...but thats on the far horizon at the moment.

So,I'm going to keep flying with the current best,untill BoB appears,and hopefully by then I would have saved enough cash to build myself a system capable of running it,in all it's glory http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

any more developents to il2-fb-AEP-PF in that time,will be even more icing on the cake if they come,if not..so what?

can wait,and will.

Regards,

Rev

ashley2005
08-15-2005, 05:09 PM
im glad there making another bob game and focusing on that now instead of pf .and to the people that say they wish 1c would finish what they started, if you read the box we got everything that is said on there and more .. its time to move on .. if you notice on hyper lobby most of the games on there are european front based ..

waffen-79
08-15-2005, 06:21 PM
that BoB is a very important fella! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

No seriously, I don't mind if the whole set FB+AEP+PF 4.01m has come to an end. I personally resigned to the Fact that there will be no Ar-234 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

But I would like Oleg or 1C ANNOUNCE IT, like "guys, this is IT".

Also, I don't care if I have to pay to play online, But by early 2007 they could include all the ETO plane set we currently have HANDS DOWN.

I mean, the new engine it's going to blow peoples minds! GRANTED but just 8-12 flyable planes? COME ON!

leeG727
08-15-2005, 07:07 PM
A big question is how fast the community will upgrade into new computers. Based on my 4.01 patch experience, BoB will require a lot more horsepower than my rig can produce. My last upgrade was intended to transition from RB3D to €œKnights Over Europe.€ Well, KOE was DOA, but the rig runs FB-AEP code superbly. I also suspect (with native Vector support) that BoB will drop WIN98 support. This all puts it out of consideration for me for at least another year or two. I skipped the original IL2, bought FB-AEP-PF, and may just skip BoB.

Now if 1C wants to shake another $50 out to me between my hardware upgrades, then a €œPlatinum€ version of FB-AEP-PF might be just the ticket. Add a few more aircraft (a P-40 F and N would be relatively easy), some new maps, kill off the rest of the bugs and keep the system requirements the same as PF. Focuse on BoB for sure, but gradually phase out FB-AEP-PF as newer computers phase in.

J_Weaver
08-15-2005, 07:27 PM
Well, as mush as we all love the IL2 series, I think we all pretty much agree that it is time to move on. However, before we do move on there are a few problems with 4.01 that need to be fixed. The biggest 2 that I can think of is the FW190 DM bug, and the most serious for us offliners is the fast ai bug. Other than that 4.01 is pretty good.

Of course, I would liek to see the Russian add-on available in the West. It would also be a shame to not get the Mossie Tempest, Ju88, etc as flyable. Especially when you consider how close they "seem" to be to finished.

P.S. A generic Essex class carrier would be nice too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ReligiousZealot
08-15-2005, 10:57 PM
I have to say, I greatly enjoy this series and agree with most that has been said on this thread. I am grateful to what I have been given, but I'm annoyed at the lack of the PTO aircraft I grew up recognizing and being able to name (most notably, the complete lack of the TBD). I want Oleg and team to work full steam on BoB at the same time I am drawn to wanting the addition of flyable carrier based torpedo bombers. Heck, my list of aircraft is so simple and short, yet highly unlikely to ever be added, which is a real shame.

I still wonder why 1C Maddox Games hasn't been gobbled up by the EA Games giant. The sheer fact of the amount of cash they can throw at mediocre titles *cough cough the last 4 007 titles cough* means they could surely double 1C's income and sales.

I don't have anything against Ubisoft, I just feel like I'm getting screwed by them. It feels as though Ubi is forcing 1C to stop adding content to PF in order to try to get more money from people in a new game. It may be the right business decision but it's just not right to do it to the fans, the potential PF shows has not been realized. People would gladly pay 20-30 bucks for another expansion instead of purchasing the new hardware required to run the new game engine, let alone shell out another $50 for a game that contains 4-5 flyable planes. In my mind, PF was "vulched" by the publisher before it ever got off the runway.

If you think about it, the right business decision would have been to not dessert the fans, but instead hand the engine over to another trusted dev team (it could be 1C if they really wanted) who would create another expansion(s) for the people who don't feel like upgrading and those of us that want to see more for the PTO. If Ubi were to listen to its customers, it would see that there is still a considerable market for the Il-2 Forgotten Battles engine/series.

As for me, I've already upgraded, and will probably end up buying BoB, I'm just saddened by the utter **** that has gone down between the publisher and the greedy Corporate America.

dasist1
08-16-2005, 04:52 AM
I just hope that 1c will fix all the known bugs with the alleged "last" patch. I am grateful for what they gave us, but the smooth and responsible transition to BoB will be much appreciated.

I second LeeG727's opinion. I may skip BoB because I don't have a plan to upgrade my rig. They'd better publish some more expansions or paid addons, but that's their call.

Gogling
08-17-2005, 03:24 AM
Just make a Kate and an Avenger, then PF will have some longevity. If it's left as it is, it will be dropped like an old shirt the moment that BoB comes out.
And don't go on about legal issues with Avenger, we all know that N/G have no problem with it's inclusion in the game now.