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View Full Version : Why does everyone seem to be against cold war sub game?



Liddabit
02-17-2008, 05:12 PM
I just watched Hunt for red october again. ( I <3 Sean Connery)

Is that movie not realistic at all? it looks like a lot of fun to play sub to sub combat and living off sound so far below the water for days.

That scene where they are manuevering in that trench and the plane drops the torpedo on them is outstanding! Rameus' cool demeanor is great, I want to play that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif!!

MarkSynthesis
02-17-2008, 06:07 PM
Well, it (the movie) isn't at all realistic. Submarines, even the Akula-class, didn't move like X-Wing fighters under the water and couldn't turn on a dime like that.

Add to the fact that it'd be utterly impossible for a boomer submarine commander to defect under any circumstance....there's no way a half-dozen senior officers (especially those delusional enough to try and defect) could run a submarine with a crew of 160 men or so on their own.

Of course, assuming the crew, which would in real life easily realize what was going on a ship like that, didn't either kill them or put them under arrest for being traitors (or risking the lives of the crew so wantonly in their efforts).

That being said, I'd love to see another Cold War-era submarine simulation with the sort of depth (and moddibility) of SH3. Even if it was as menial as running missile drills along the Pacific Coast, I'd love a chance to command an Akula-class and tangle with American boomers, or vice versa.

Still, in the mean time Sub Commander will have to do.

Liddabit
02-17-2008, 06:30 PM
So dodging a torpedo and letting it swirl around to hit who fired it wouldn't work :P?

WilhelmSchulz.
02-17-2008, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Liddabit:
So dodging a torpedo and letting it swirl around to hit who fired it wouldn't work :P?
Well if you throw off the fish and its trying to re-aquire anyone who gets within 2,000(I think) yds. is a target.

Kaleun1961
02-17-2008, 06:56 PM
I think the Cold War era for sub sims is somewhat like the jet age to flight sims. There's a lot of electronics and computers that somehow take out of the human drama. I like to fly a WW2 era combat flight sim, that requires me to be conscious of my energy state, not to bleed off too much speed because I can't just hit an afterburner and defy gravity as I point my nose straight up to the sky. I like having to twist and turn to bring my guns to just that right spot, and then feel the juddering of the guns go off and watch the tracer rounds stitch through the air and if I did it right, into my opponent's aircraft. The jet age, with the exception maybe of the Korean War era, has largely been one of electronics, radar and missiles. Sure, it still requires a good man in the seat, but it doesn't seem so eyeball to eyeball as a WW1 or WW2 sim does.

I feel the same about Cold War sub sims. Too many gadgets, not enough visuals and since there wasn't a real shooting war, all of the combat would have to be "fantasy." And where is the dynamic campaign that could make it interesting? So, for me, I like to stick to historical simulations, where one man is still important, and where fantasy is limited.

But to each their own. My turnons aren't for everyone. I just wouldn't be into a Cold War sub sim. Still, I like a good Cold War sub movie, because they are able to convey the drama aboard a vessel that can literally bring Armageddon to the world. "Crimson Tide" is a good film for you to see, Liddabit, if you liked Red October. Gene Hackmann is the captain and always turns in a good performance.

Xenithar
02-17-2008, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
I think the Cold War era for sub sims is somewhat like the jet age to flight sims. There's a lot of electronics and computers that somehow take out of the human drama. I like to fly a WW2 era combat flight sim, that requires me to be conscious of my energy state, not to bleed off too much speed because I can't just hit an afterburner and defy gravity as I point my nose straight up to the sky. I like having to twist and turn to bring my guns to just that right spot, and then feel the juddering of the guns go off and watch the tracer rounds stitch through the air and if I did it right, into my opponent's aircraft. The jet age, with the exception maybe of the Korean War era, has largely been one of electronics, radar and missiles. Sure, it still requires a good man in the seat, but it doesn't seem so eyeball to eyeball as a WW1 or WW2 sim does.

I feel the same about Cold War sub sims. Too many gadgets, not enough visuals and since there wasn't a real shooting war, all of the combat would have to be "fantasy." And where is the dynamic campaign that could make it interesting? So, for me, I like to stick to historical simulations, where one man is still important, and where fantasy is limited.

But to each their own. My turnons aren't for everyone. I just wouldn't be into a Cold War sub sim. Still, I like a good Cold War sub movie, because they are able to convey the drama aboard a vessel that can literally bring Armageddon to the world. "Crimson Tide" is a good film for you to see, Liddabit, if you liked Red October. Gene Hackmann is the captain and always turns in a good performance.
Amen to that! I love the original "Red Baron" game by Dynamix for DOS. I still have it on my 486SX. I also enjoyed "Red Baron II" for 9X/ME/NT and can make it run on XP, although it won't save the settings correctly and you have to configure the resolution and **** every time you start. I even go as far as playing "Jane's WWII Fighters" which runs fine on everything since 9X, with Vista being a possible exception. The newer ones though, even those for DOS, were quick to bore me since you pretty much lock-on, fire, drop a few counter-measures, and pull back on the stick.

The same goes for sub simulations. A sub-sim and u-boat sim are not the same thing. It's not nearly as challenging and won't hold me long. I still have the original "Silent Hunter" for DOS on my old P2/233 and it is still fun to go back and play from time to time. I do have "688 Attack Sub", both the old DOS version and the 9X one from Jane's, and they don't hold me for very long. I also tend to have a hell of a lot more respect for those who served on u-boats as opposed to our modern navy men and women for that reason. It seems that the only way we lose a modern sub is to have something go horribly wrong with it!

Oh, and I wanted to mention that I have the original "Submarine Commander" game. I bet very few of you can tell me what system it was originally released on, or what media for that matter!

Worf101
02-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Running and dodging is "fun" I guess. But during the cold war, no shootings, no sinkings, no renown... pheh..

Da Worfster

Goose_Green
02-17-2008, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
I think the Cold War era for sub sims is somewhat like the jet age to flight sims. There's a lot of electronics and computers that somehow take out of the human drama. I like to fly a WW2 era combat flight sim, that requires me to be conscious of my energy state, not to bleed off too much speed because I can't just hit an afterburner and defy gravity as I point my nose straight up to the sky. I like having to twist and turn to bring my guns to just that right spot, and then feel the juddering of the guns go off and watch the tracer rounds stitch through the air and if I did it right, into my opponent's aircraft. The jet age, with the exception maybe of the Korean War era, has largely been one of electronics, radar and missiles. Sure, it still requires a good man in the seat, but it doesn't seem so eyeball to eyeball as a WW1 or WW2 sim does.

I feel the same about Cold War sub sims. Too many gadgets, not enough visuals and since there wasn't a real shooting war, all of the combat would have to be "fantasy." And where is the dynamic campaign that could make it interesting? So, for me, I like to stick to historical simulations, where one man is still important, and where fantasy is limited.



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Well said K61, you have in fact echoed sentiments I stressed in another thread somewhere here or on the SH4 forum. Modern subs are far too clinical and stale, I prefer the adrenelin rush of WWII http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PhantomKira
02-18-2008, 11:14 AM
I have Jane's 688I, which, while the graphics are seriously lacking due to age, is still an okay modern sub sim. Unfortunately, after you launch a few TLAM missile strikes, and fire off a few Mk 48ADCAPs, I find it to be too easy... unless you get spotted [er, detected, you'd better not surface run with a modern sub], in which case, you're pretty much toast. Those darn helicopters and their dipping sonars! Like the real world, they'll get you, almost every time. It's also very confined in the areas you run in, though I assume the topography to be top notch (it is a Janes product, after all). Same thing every mission, run in quietly, go to P depth, do whatever you need to do, dive and slink away. Boring, after about the third mission, but I do get the feel for being aboard a modern sub, kinda.

hsj41
02-18-2008, 12:58 PM
I want to see whole new sh3 game with 2008 graphics what would sh3 look like if it was like sh4 graphics WOW.Ubisoft can make same game but put 2008 graphics ill be happy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I play sh4 then when i play sh3 old graphics game play is great but those graphics.

Kaleun1961
02-18-2008, 02:19 PM
More importantly than updated graphics would be the inclusion of missing aspects of the game: true wolfpack and headquarter interactions, as well as more realistic depictions of Allied aircraft operations, convoy compositions and inclusion of missing submarine and aircraft types for both sides. "Aces of the Deep" was graphically more primitive than SH3, but it did incorporate U-boat wolfpacks and a basic level of interaction with BdU. I's sure like to feel a part of the war, rather than being "Hans von Rambo" in my lone U-boat.

Liddabit
02-18-2008, 02:59 PM
That makes sense, thanks all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

More interaction with bdu would be great. I'm kidn of sick of the keep up the great work! messages :P

VikingGrandad
02-18-2008, 04:34 PM
The idea of a cold war sim doesn't interest me, for all the reasons K61 and others have stated.

As for interaction with BdU, there's a small gang of developers who are developing a freeware game called 'Subwolves', which you may not have heard of.

In their own words:


Subwolves follows the concept of a general strategy game. From the point of view of the BdU, you lead the U-Boats into battle. The battles (the conflict between individual U-Boats and single or multiple enemy ships) can either be resolved by Subwolves itself, or played out using Silent Hunter III. Thus, the game principle is along similar lines as the strategy-game aspect of the Total War series and similar games.

It's effectively a strategic 'sister game' for SH3. I think it's a great idea.

The bad news is that it's not available, yet. The developers have been working on it for a couple of years, and are still progressing it. They added some very interesting new preview screenshots just a month ago:

Subwolves (http://www.subwolves.com/phpfus/mFusion/news.php)

Mantock
02-22-2008, 06:44 AM
Interesting topics!
I would love to get my hands on some war games of different eras. Like WW1 fighter planes, cold war subs, even a game like sh3 that deals compleatly with the allied ships instead of the u-boats, droppong deapth charges, stuff like that, but the free cam would be a cheat!! lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
Can anyone point me in the direction of such a game?

montecristo1981
02-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Ive been keeping an eye on that game for years,its a great idea. Although I was initally a bit dissapointed when i heard they would be charging for it (ive been spoilt with all the free mods over the years) I will definetly be getting it.

cwhense
02-22-2008, 06:52 PM
I would like to see one based along the lines of the Mircoprose thin kit was game Red Storm Rising.

I played that for many many hours.

Also played silent service 1 and 2, the 688's series, but loved RSR.

joeap
02-23-2008, 11:44 AM
You guys do know about Sub Command and Dangerous Waters don't you? I tried the DW demo and was intrigued though like some modern stuff really doesn't do it for me.

Realjambo
02-23-2008, 03:52 PM
I have Sub Command - I got it as soon as it was released, and to be honest, it left me cold.

Odd, given I loved Jane's Fleet Command which was written in part by the same developers, Sonalysts. I'm not putting them down - they did a good job with Sub Command, but perhaps coming from a hardened SH player the Sub Command concept is a little alien - having no real crew interaction is an example.

That's not to say that a cold war sim by Ubi wouldn't include these features - it would be foolish not to consider the successful aspects of the SH series with a view to implementing them into a cold war scenario.

Cold war scenario. As has already been posted here, the cold war was not a 'hot' war, or a shooting war, so I can't imagine SH fans being satisfied by accomplishing patrol objectives such as trailing Soviet subs or laying wire taps on the ocean floor - Stealthy yes, but nothing fired in anger will leave a lot of Skippers disappointed and frustrated.

If SH5 is to be 'cold war' and be made attractive, a departure from the the historic aspect of undersea warfare is the only logical and inevitable route SH5 could take to retain our interest and satisfy our 'hunting' instinct = A fictional scenario. Now that is going to take a a lot of selling to the die hard SH fans I would suggest, given that the preceding titles have adhered, mostly, to actual historic events.

Steve1947
02-25-2008, 04:56 AM
Regarding the Cold War Sub Sims you could have the scenaro based on the sinking of the Belgrano.
just imagine as the Captain of HMS Superb detects the Belgrano and the computer gathers all the info and programmes the brand new Tiger Fish torpedo. Command approves the shot and the button is pressed.
There is the reasuring whosh as the Torpedo leaves the tube and then........well nothing as it gracefuly sinks to the bottom of the South Atlantic because the battery was flat !!!!
So a Type 23 of WW11 vinatge design is quickly programmed up and launched, a WW11 designed ship sunk by a WW11 designed Torp in 1982.
Stick with the WW11 Sub Sims !!!!!

Mantock
04-12-2008, 02:58 PM
Yea, it makes sense that cold war sub sim s would be boring. Does anyone know of a ww1 fighter sim? as good as pacific fighters?

Yorktown_Class
04-13-2008, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by MarkSynthesis:
Well, it (the movie) isn't at all realistic. Submarines, even the Akula-class, didn't move like X-Wing fighters under the water and couldn't turn on a dime like that.

Add to the fact that it'd be utterly impossible for a boomer submarine commander to defect under any circumstance....there's no way a half-dozen senior officers (especially those delusional enough to try and defect) could run a submarine with a crew of 160 men or so on their own.

Of course, assuming the crew, which would in real life easily realize what was going on a ship like that, didn't either kill them or put them under arrest for being traitors (or risking the lives of the crew so wantonly in their efforts).

That being said, I'd love to see another Cold War-era submarine simulation with the sort of depth (and moddibility) of SH3. Even if it was as menial as running missile drills along the Pacific Coast, I'd love a chance to command an Akula-class and tangle with American boomers, or vice versa.

Still, in the mean time Sub Commander will have to do.

You mean that wasn't a true story http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Sarcasm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yorktown_Class
04-13-2008, 02:01 AM
I guess it would be ok,if it was setup under a "What If" senereo,Russian and American subs duking it out whould be fun,but surely not realistic.
But if you could setup the mission where the american sub was able to cut into the russian phone lines,like what happened in real life would be fun I guess..