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View Full Version : Is the face of Adam in The Truth from AC2, the face of subject 16?



rileypoole1234
07-28-2011, 02:19 PM
If peoples theories are correct and the faces of the ancestors do take the look of the subject which is seeing their memories, is Subject 16s face the face of Adam? He is seeing his memory right? This is just a theory i have you see. Sorry if this is short and to the point but I tried posting this twice and my bloody internet had a fit at me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

xCr0wnedNorris
07-28-2011, 02:22 PM
In which case Alta´r, Ezio, AND Desmond would all have to look like him as well wouldn't they?

LightRey
07-28-2011, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
If peoples theories are correct and the faces of the ancestors do take the look of the subject which is seeing their memories, is Subject 16s face the face of Adam? He is seeing his memory right? This is just a theory i have you see. Sorry if this is short and to the point but I tried posting this twice and my bloody internet had a fit at me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif
Yeah, that theory's come up before. If that is how the animus works then that should indeed be 16's face. I guess we'll have to wait till either we see his face or till the inner workings of the animus are revealed further.


Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
In which case Alta´r, Ezio, AND Desmond would all have to look like him as well wouldn't they?
No, he means the other way around.
If Desmond would visit Adam's memories, Adam would have to look like him.

xCr0wnedNorris
07-28-2011, 02:33 PM
Ah, okay. Well this is based off of the theory that the animus makes the face of the ancestor who's memories you're reliving into your face, so you can better synchronize with them. I'm going to say isn't the case. I'm basing this off of the beginning of Assassin's Creed 2. My guess is that they just so happened to look like Desmond, which is what allowed for better synchronization. My reasoning? One of the very first memories of Ezio's that you access is on the bridge in Florence. That's where Vieri throws a rock at him and forms his scar, similar to Alta´r's and Desmond's scar. If the animus reformed the ancestors face, wouldn't Ezio already have the scar? Why would they show how Ezio got his scar if he actually didn't get it?

LightRey
07-28-2011, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
Ah, okay. Well this is based off of the theory that the animus makes the face of the ancestor who's memories you're reliving into your face, so you can better synchronize with them. I'm going to say isn't the case. I'm basing this off of the beginning of Assassin's Creed 2. Assassin's Creed 2. My guess is that they just so happened to look like Desmond, which is what allowed for better synchronization. My reasoning? One of the very first memories of Ezio's that you access is on the bridge in Florence. That's where Vieri throws a rock at him and forms his scar, similar to Alta´r's and Desmond's scar. If the animus reformed the ancestors face, wouldn't Ezio already have the scar? Why would they show how Ezio got his scar if he actually didn't get it?
Good points. Ezio indeed didn't have Desmond's face as a baby.

CRUDFACE
07-28-2011, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
Ah, okay. Well this is based off of the theory that the animus makes the face of the ancestor who's memories you're reliving into your face, so you can better synchronize with them. I'm going to say isn't the case. I'm basing this off of the beginning of Assassin's Creed 2. Assassin's Creed 2. My guess is that they just so happened to look like Desmond, which is what allowed for better synchronization. My reasoning? One of the very first memories of Ezio's that you access is on the bridge in Florence. That's where Vieri throws a rock at him and forms his scar, similar to Alta´r's and Desmond's scar. If the animus reformed the ancestors face, wouldn't Ezio already have the scar? Why would they show how Ezio got his scar if he actually didn't get it?
Good points. Ezio indeed didn't have Desmond's face as a baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a big coincidence you're riding on. And are you really saying that a middle eastern man, a Florentine noble and a current day Bartender would all look the same? And the animus adds to an already made face. It creates the base, not any else. Like Desmond doesn't have a beard, why does Ezio have one? Cause he grew one when he was alive. Why doesn't Altair have that missing finger? Cause he cut it off already. Think of it as having of it as wearing glasses. the glasses represent Desmond while the eye represents Ezio.

and for the babies, they all look the same, they don't get real facial features until later on in development.

LightRey
07-28-2011, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
Ah, okay. Well this is based off of the theory that the animus makes the face of the ancestor who's memories you're reliving into your face, so you can better synchronize with them. I'm going to say isn't the case. I'm basing this off of the beginning of Assassin's Creed 2. Assassin's Creed 2. My guess is that they just so happened to look like Desmond, which is what allowed for better synchronization. My reasoning? One of the very first memories of Ezio's that you access is on the bridge in Florence. That's where Vieri throws a rock at him and forms his scar, similar to Alta´r's and Desmond's scar. If the animus reformed the ancestors face, wouldn't Ezio already have the scar? Why would they show how Ezio got his scar if he actually didn't get it?
Good points. Ezio indeed didn't have Desmond's face as a baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a big coincidence you're riding on. And are you really saying that a middle eastern man, a Florentine noble and a current day Bartender would all look the same? And the animus adds to an already made face. It creates the base, not any else. Like Desmond doesn't have a beard, why does Ezio have one? Cause he grew one when he was alive. Why doesn't Altair have that missing finger? Cause he cut it off already. Think of it as having of it as wearing glasses. the glasses represent Desmond while the eye represents Ezio.

and for the babies, they all look the same, they don't get real facial features until later on in development. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ehm. It's very common for people to have someone that looks almost identical to them. They don't even have to be related. Besides, why do all the templars in MP not have a unique face for each player? If it was an animus thing to "copy" the face of the one in it then why don't those faces change accordingly?

blazefp
07-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
Ah, okay. Well this is based off of the theory that the animus makes the face of the ancestor who's memories you're reliving into your face, so you can better synchronize with them. I'm going to say isn't the case. I'm basing this off of the beginning of Assassin's Creed 2. Assassin's Creed 2. My guess is that they just so happened to look like Desmond, which is what allowed for better synchronization. My reasoning? One of the very first memories of Ezio's that you access is on the bridge in Florence. That's where Vieri throws a rock at him and forms his scar, similar to Alta´r's and Desmond's scar. If the animus reformed the ancestors face, wouldn't Ezio already have the scar? Why would they show how Ezio got his scar if he actually didn't get it?
Good points. Ezio indeed didn't have Desmond's face as a baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Haha indeed. But I think the animus relativizes that. And it also just makes the face looks the same as the subject, it doesn't make them the same.

CRUDFACE
07-28-2011, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
Ah, okay. Well this is based off of the theory that the animus makes the face of the ancestor who's memories you're reliving into your face, so you can better synchronize with them. I'm going to say isn't the case. I'm basing this off of the beginning of Assassin's Creed 2. Assassin's Creed 2. My guess is that they just so happened to look like Desmond, which is what allowed for better synchronization. My reasoning? One of the very first memories of Ezio's that you access is on the bridge in Florence. That's where Vieri throws a rock at him and forms his scar, similar to Alta´r's and Desmond's scar. If the animus reformed the ancestors face, wouldn't Ezio already have the scar? Why would they show how Ezio got his scar if he actually didn't get it?
Good points. Ezio indeed didn't have Desmond's face as a baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a big coincidence you're riding on. And are you really saying that a middle eastern man, a Florentine noble and a current day Bartender would all look the same? And the animus adds to an already made face. It creates the base, not any else. Like Desmond doesn't have a beard, why does Ezio have one? Cause he grew one when he was alive. Why doesn't Altair have that missing finger? Cause he cut it off already. Think of it as having of it as wearing glasses. the glasses represent Desmond while the eye represents Ezio.

and for the babies, they all look the same, they don't get real facial features until later on in development. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ehm. It's very common for people to have someone that looks almost identical to them. They don't even have to be related. Besides, why do all the templars in MP not have a unique face for each player? If it was an animus thing to "copy" the face of the one in it then why don't those faces change accordingly? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you just try to sweep everything I said away? That is a random occurrence and has nothing to do with the themes that assassin's creed presents to the players. That's to rare to happen three time throughout the whole series. and I doubt you can find someone of three different nationalities and backgrounds who look the same, skin color and all. and having random people int he past look like you can't be as high as you're suggesting.

But yeah, about the Templar multiplayer thing, it doesn't use the same engine as the animus and and hasn't really been explained since it's not based on anything in the blood, but fed to you instead. And from what I'm getting at, nobody really stays to one person in multiplayer since you can swap out people between matches.

LightRey
07-28-2011, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
Did you just try to sweep everything I said away? That is a random occurrence and has nothing to do with the themes that assassin's creed presents to the players. That's to rare to happen three time throughout the whole series. and I doubt you can find someone of three different nationalities and backgrounds who look the same, skin color and all. and having random people int he past look like you can't be as high as you're suggesting.

But yeah, about the Templar multiplayer thing, it doesn't use the same engine as the animus and and hasn't really been explained since it's not based on anything in the blood, but fed to you instead. And from what I'm getting at, nobody really stays to one person in multiplayer since you can swap out people between matches.
The events aren't based on anything in the blood. The actual people were most definitely real (in the AC universe that is). I highly doubt that merely actually being related to them is what's causing them to look like you in the animus.
And yes, there are very good chances someone with a different nationality and a different background looks almost exactly like you.

rileypoole1234
07-28-2011, 06:38 PM
Wow thanks for your contributions everybody. I just created this theory as if I knew that the Animus changes the ancestors face. It really is only speculation. We'll have to wait for the AC Encyclopedia, which will have a picture of Subject 16 in it(as seen in another thread). But I do mostly believe this theory that the faces change, not completely, but do give a great LIKENESS, to the person who is experiencing the memories.

CRUDFACE
07-28-2011, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
Did you just try to sweep everything I said away? That is a random occurrence and has nothing to do with the themes that assassin's creed presents to the players. That's to rare to happen three time throughout the whole series. and I doubt you can find someone of three different nationalities and backgrounds who look the same, skin color and all. and having random people int he past look like you can't be as high as you're suggesting.

But yeah, about the Templar multiplayer thing, it doesn't use the same engine as the animus and and hasn't really been explained since it's not based on anything in the blood, but fed to you instead. And from what I'm getting at, nobody really stays to one person in multiplayer since you can swap out people between matches.
The events aren't based on anything in the blood. The actual people were most definitely real (in the AC universe that is). I highly doubt that merely actually being related to them is what's causing them to look like you in the animus.
And yes, there are very good chances someone with a different nationality and a different background looks almost exactly like you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you specify what you mean by events?

And no, there isn't that high of a chance that someone will look EXACTLY like someone with an entirely different background and that's impossible. And we don't know how the DDS or the system for the Abstergo recruits works. TBH, I'm nearly 100% sure that their faces stay that way because of convenience and changing their faces so many times would be extra work for the developers. lol, we don't even have faces as players, JK

the probability of that is extremely when also factoring living conditions and other uncertainties. Ezio, Altair and Desmond probably look nothing alike. It's too much of a coincidence to keep counting on that.

LightRey
07-29-2011, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
Did you just try to sweep everything I said away? That is a random occurrence and has nothing to do with the themes that assassin's creed presents to the players. That's to rare to happen three time throughout the whole series. and I doubt you can find someone of three different nationalities and backgrounds who look the same, skin color and all. and having random people int he past look like you can't be as high as you're suggesting.

But yeah, about the Templar multiplayer thing, it doesn't use the same engine as the animus and and hasn't really been explained since it's not based on anything in the blood, but fed to you instead. And from what I'm getting at, nobody really stays to one person in multiplayer since you can swap out people between matches.
The events aren't based on anything in the blood. The actual people were most definitely real (in the AC universe that is). I highly doubt that merely actually being related to them is what's causing them to look like you in the animus.
And yes, there are very good chances someone with a different nationality and a different background looks almost exactly like you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you specify what you mean by events?

And no, there isn't that high of a chance that someone will look EXACTLY like someone with an entirely different background and that's impossible. And we don't know how the DDS or the system for the Abstergo recruits works. TBH, I'm nearly 100% sure that their faces stay that way because of convenience and changing their faces so many times would be extra work for the developers. lol, we don't even have faces as players, JK

the probability of that is extremely when also factoring living conditions and other uncertainties. Ezio, Altair and Desmond probably look nothing alike. It's too much of a coincidence to keep counting on that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
With events I mean them killing each other in random areas.
I never said EXACTLY, I said almost exactly, which is good enough reason for a shared skin. Regardless, this isn't even about likelihood, this is about what the reason is ubi thought of and I'm inclined to think there's more to it than that it is an animus feature.

ShaneO7K
07-29-2011, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:

With events I mean them killing each other in random areas.
I never said EXACTLY, I said almost exactly, which is good enough reason for a shared skin. Regardless, this isn't even about likelihood, this is about what the reason is ubi thought of and I'm inclined to think there's more to it than that it is an animus feature.

I'm beginning to think of Desmonds ancsetors faces being similar to his being similar to the late 80's TV show "Quantum Leap" where what ever body he leaps into they look identical to him but to whoever looks at him he just looks like the person he has "leaped" into.

I've probably described this badly but although Desmond and his 2 anscestors could just look similar there is a chance that the similar appearacnes are just to re-enforce the idea of Desmond looking back at these memories.

(Again I probably described this badly,sorry).

xCr0wnedNorris
07-30-2011, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
That's a big coincidence you're riding on. And are you really saying that a middle eastern man, a Florentine noble and a current day Bartender would all look the same?

It's completely possible, especially because said middle eastern man and Florentine noble are related to the latter.


And the animus adds to an already made face. It creates the base, not any else. Like Desmond doesn't have a beard, why does Ezio have one? Cause he grew one when he was alive.

Right, and Desmond hasn't, unless he has a gene that allows him to grow a full beard in a couple of days. Since Ezio's facial features can change in the Animus, doesn't that mean that the Animus doesn't reform the face?


Why doesn't Altair have that missing finger? Cause he cut it off already. Think of it as having of it as wearing glasses. the glasses represent Desmond while the eye represents Ezio.

All of these don't necessarily support the theory that the Animus reconstructs the face. Why does Alta´r have a missing finger? Because you're reliving one of his memories that formed after he cut it off. This can still support the fact that the Animus has you relive your ancestors memories. And based off of this, that also means that Alta´r and Ezio naturally had great resemblances with Desmond.

ShaneO7K
07-30-2011, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
That's a big coincidence you're riding on. And are you really saying that a middle eastern man, a Florentine noble and a current day Bartender would all look the same?

It's completely possible, especially because said middle eastern man and Florentine noble are related to the latter.


And the animus adds to an already made face. It creates the base, not any else. Like Desmond doesn't have a beard, why does Ezio have one? Cause he grew one when he was alive.

Right, and Desmond hasn't, unless he has a gene that allows him to grow a full beard in a couple of days. Since Ezio's facial features can change in the Animus, doesn't that mean that the Animus doesn't reform the face?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a screenshot around somewhere of Desmond with a beard in ACB but it was removed before released, it basically made Desmond and Ezio look identical.

LightRey
07-30-2011, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by dead_gunner187:
There's a screenshot around somewhere of Desmond with a beard in ACB but it was removed before released, it basically made Desmond and Ezio look identical.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what he says. We know they used the same basic skin. That's not the issue. The issue is why.

rileypoole1234
07-30-2011, 03:09 PM
This all has made me think if we ever have actually seen the TRUE face of Altair or Ezio. The E3 trailer has Ezio looking a wee bit different, which could be the TRUE face of Ezio.

Calvarok
07-30-2011, 03:47 PM
The reason that we've never seen the canon face of Ezio until revelations, was that until revelations they were lazy and used Desmond's. Simple as that. Obviously the Animus doesn't use the same face, because Eizo has a unique facial model now. The explanation for that it the explanation for why Lucy's face model changed in AC2 and ACB. It just DID. Because it's a game. And they want to improve things. Ezio isn't supposed to look exactly like Desmond. You're not supposed to notice that he does. And now, he finally has his canon face in gameplay. We may see Altair's too.

xCr0wnedNorris
07-30-2011, 04:12 PM
His face isn't that different in the Revelations trailer. The only thing is that he has a full beard instead of a goatee, and there's some wrinkling. He's also paler. Other than that he still looks pretty similar.

For example.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRt0gVAEuu-LvCkR4a9imPrSOpVSuO3poNrEpdJREEkKhGEtph3

While his face does look different every time, the key facial structures are still all there.

blazefp
07-30-2011, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
The reason that we've never seen the canon face of Ezio until revelations, was that until revelations they were lazy and used Desmond's. Simple as that. Obviously the Animus doesn't use the same face, because Eizo has a unique facial model now. The explanation for that it the explanation for why Lucy's face model changed in AC2 and ACB. It just DID. Because it's a game. And they want to improve things. Ezio isn't supposed to look exactly like Desmond. You're not supposed to notice that he does. And now, he finally has his canon face in gameplay. We may see Altair's too.


Lazy?? Really? It's Ubisoft we are talking about, they've created a gigantic but very defined conspiracy theory that lasts almost 1000 years based on a small society that none of the current 28 million AC players knew before - the assassins.

It's definitely something they got to clarify but laziness can't be their answer.

rileypoole1234
07-30-2011, 07:45 PM
Yes I really highly doubt it's laziness. And to Norris, that's exactly what I mean. The key features are still there, but it just looks a bit different.

LightRey
07-30-2011, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
The reason that we've never seen the canon face of Ezio until revelations, was that until revelations they were lazy and used Desmond's. Simple as that. Obviously the Animus doesn't use the same face, because Eizo has a unique facial model now. The explanation for that it the explanation for why Lucy's face model changed in AC2 and ACB. It just DID. Because it's a game. And they want to improve things. Ezio isn't supposed to look exactly like Desmond. You're not supposed to notice that he does. And now, he finally has his canon face in gameplay. We may see Altair's too.


Lazy?? Really? It's Ubisoft we are talking about, they've created a gigantic but very defined conspiracy theory that lasts almost 1000 years based on a small society that none of the current 28 million AC players knew before - the assassins.

It's definitely something they got to clarify but laziness can't be their answer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm also quite certain that Ubi actually left a statement saying that they had a good reason for their faces being so similar. It's definitely not laziness.