PDA

View Full Version : Once 4.09 is released, what chance of IL2 being out-sourced for further development?



Mysticpuma2003
01-25-2008, 02:10 PM
Obviously I'd expect it to be to a company that Oleg would approve, but for those who like the late war era, which will not in the near future appear in BoB, what chance of the game being further developed by an external team.

I'm thinking of the planes that were being developed, but never completed (P47-N springs to mind), but the IL2 engine has so much more to give, and lets face it, PC's have caught up now with the technology, so most can run the game with settings very high at least.

This may not be possible for a lot of players at the launch of the Graphically exceptional (from screen-shots) BoB:SoW engine, so there would be interest from further IL2 add-ons after 1C stop development.

So, what chance?

Cheers, MP.

Capt.LoneRanger
01-25-2008, 02:19 PM
Good question.

I guess they will hold the cards as long as possible.

I guess this will repeat the Falcon4-history: The developers hold the rights but care less and less about the product and "3rd party developers" began to modify bit after bit of the original structure. The only barrier: The original EXE-file that could not be modified and is still under copyright protection.

If it wasn't for that the graphics engine would have been facelifted YEARS ago, but even for Falcon4:AF the ban was not lifted and only partial modification of the engine was allowed.

A real pitty IMHO.

PF_Coastie
01-25-2008, 02:21 PM
Some things are being farmed out already, like maps. I do not see Oleg "giving" the FM's or DM's away though. But that will be done by anyway by people who don't care what Oleg thinks.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Some things are being farmed out already, like maps. I do not see Oleg "giving" the FM's or DM's away though. But that will be done by anyway by people who don't care what Oleg thinks.

If the DM and FM can be protected, just with the progress being made on maps at the moment, this could be potentially, one of the most exicting times for il2.

Oleg said this here:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2429

We do not have any plans to support IL-2 anymore. We are 500% busy with BoB and following after that series. 4.09m will be the last. The protection from cheaters will make other group of enthusiasts that are in contact with me. We will be able only to answer their questions, but will do nothing ourselves in code. Simply, because no time. 4.09 is some user's made add-on. Our work is only to check and compile.

This would suggest it already is being outsourced with 4.09.

cheers fruitbat

Capt.LoneRanger
01-25-2008, 02:46 PM
Outsourced and OpenSource is a differnce, though. While 4.09 is made outside his company, they still test, compile and code the stuff.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Outsourced and OpenSource is a differnce, though. While 4.09 is made outside his company, they still test, compile and code the stuff.

Agreed% that there is a difference.

However, who's to say later down the line, if say, maps are produced that are good enough, that they won't be implemented. 4.09 is already at least one patch more than we were 'promised'.

However, more importantly, does this

"The protection from cheaters will make other group of enthusiasts that are in contact with me"

mean translated from olegish, that there will be third party development of cheat protection, sanctioned and subject to approvall by oleg?

fruitbat

Capt.LoneRanger
01-25-2008, 03:31 PM
Well, actually 4.09 will only include what was promised for 4.08 before (plus some extras). So, while 4.09 is one patch more than promised, the contend is what we allready hoped for in 4.08.

The question is, however, if the little support (compiling 3rd party stuff) will continue after that.


The cheat protection is a different matter as it does not touch the program itself. It's rather a system to check certain files and compare their checksums (sort of). So basically they ignored that and hope the community will come up with something.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 04:04 PM
Question? If the DM and FM can be protected, does this retain the integrity of il2? Can it be abused if these are locked down?

As to if there will be further support for compiling 3rd party stuff, i guess that will depend very much on the content. I can't imagine a person that has created such a thing as this, would cut it off so completely that if they saw something good, would ignore it.

fruitbat

Zeus-cat
01-25-2008, 04:10 PM
Keep in mind that Oleg has valid business reasons for letting IL-2 die. He wants all of us to buy SOW as he makes no money if we keep playing IL-2 and ignore his new creation. If I was Oleg I wouldn't let anyone touch IL-2 once he walks away from it.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
Keep in mind that Oleg has valid business reasons for letting IL-2 die. He wants all of us to buy SOW as he makes no money if we keep playing IL-2 and ignore his new creation. If I was Oleg I wouldn't let anyone touch IL-2 once he walks away from it.

See i don't get that. It's because of il2, and its continuing interest, that not only will i buy SoW, but plan to build my next Pc for it.

If oleg released Bob, and it was just il2 with 6dof, with the map and planes, i'd buy it.

Il2 is constant advertising. how many times have you seen threads where someone has bought say, pacific fighters, and people have said yeah, but 1946 is what you want. The latest, best version.

fruitbat

Lurch1962
01-25-2008, 05:44 PM
I was pondering this very situation, too. As noted, IL2 can now run smoothly on decent machines with graphics settings at max. For that reason alone I'll play it for some time to come!

Even if it's just the addition (and/or improvement) of maps, IL2 would be given a new lease. And more planes would be icing on the cake.

Of course, if the AI code were to be improved upon, I'd wonder if I'd died and gone to Valhalla!

Capt.LoneRanger
01-25-2008, 05:45 PM
IL2 is 9 years old and in most regards it looks that way. The engine is stretched to it's limits.

Still no further support for IL2 doesn't mean that IL2 will die from one day to the next. But if you have a limited ammount of people able to work on a project, you have to abandon older titles and go on to the next.

Zeus-cat
01-25-2008, 05:58 PM
If oleg released Bob, and it was just il2 with 6dof, with the map and planes, i'd buy it.

But doesn't that make my case? If Oleg keeps improving IL-2 (or lets someone else do it), then why buy SOW?

I hope they keep improving IL-2 and I hope they give the code to a third party, but I'm not betting on it.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If oleg released Bob, and it was just il2 with 6dof, with the map and planes, i'd buy it.

But doesn't that make my case? If Oleg keeps improving IL-2 (or lets someone else do it), then why buy SOW?

I hope they keep improving IL-2 and I hope they give the code to a third party, but I'm not betting on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because you know it will be better. As Capt loneranger say's, Il2 is old, pushed to its limits, which if i had seen when il2 original came out, i wouldn't of believed. The engine is maxed. New engine, new potential.

Maybe i'm just naive, but would oleg and 1c really release a new game, if they were not sure it was better than before, espescially as there name was made on the back of the daddy il2.

fruitbat

Rjel
01-25-2008, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
Maybe i'm just naive, but would oleg and 1c really release a new game, if they were not sure it was better than before, espescially as there name was made on the back of the daddy il2.
fruitbat

Unfortunately, the software world is full of examples of that very thing. Newer hasn't always meant better. I hope Oleg pulls it off. I wouldn't bet my life on it though.

jarink
01-25-2008, 07:45 PM
Isn't RRG already doing what could be termed "3rd party development"?

I know Oleg has said that sometime after SoW is released that IL2 will be opened to 3rd party devs, but it will not be open source. I'm assuming this will entail some sort of licensing scheme; the proceeds from which will allow 1C to support testing, compiling and integrating the products from other devs.

The big question for me is: "What kind of changes/additions will these 3rd parties be allowed to make?"

Besides the obvious additions of maps and planes, there are many, many small details that could, if the devs had time, fix some long-standing problems with IL2 while not intruding on SoW features. The problem would be getting a dev to take the time to make the changes, since they aren't what most sales departments would consider "marketable".

My short list of things I'd like to see fixed or changed:

* Add more maps to the QMB
* Allow user-defined default skins
* Fix the MAT/markings system!!!! (Most especially heinous is that there still is no way with the current markings engine to show the US "stars and bars" national insignia. The space set aside for the roundels on all a/c models is too small and the wrong shape. It would be nice if real ETO code lettering was available for all US a/c that served in the ETO as well.)
* VCR controls for viewing tracks (hello? rewind?)

The list could go on and on...

fabianfred
01-25-2008, 08:17 PM
all these years I've been playing il2 and writing missions for it....I have wished that one day I had a computer capable of running my BIG missions smoothly and at great graphics settings....

Now I have a quite recent and hot machine (E6850 3.0ghz/2gb RAM/8800GTS)...I can do so....and also with other effects improvements which previously were not available

I know that Oleg had to make his game playable by the many....not just for the few with Hot machines....but now many have good machines and are planning better ones when SOW comes out...

BoB SoW will have many great features....but I know that my machine will struggle with it....especiallly if I want to have Big Full missions like i can now

so there will be a place for some time for the il2 engine and all out missions and effects

ElAurens
01-25-2008, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
[
See i don't get that. It's because of il2, and its continuing interest, that not only will i buy SoW, but plan to build my next Pc for it.



Well it was because of the original IL2 that we all purchased FB.

Anyone still playing the original IL2?

No.

'46 will be nothing but a fond memory within six months of the release of SOW;BoB.

Be sure.

HuninMunin
01-25-2008, 10:26 PM
I know that it will be for me at least...
It's just such a long time with IL2.

Mysticpuma2003
01-26-2008, 02:16 AM
I may go BoB exclusive, but only when late war planes become available, so IL2 has loads of life for me yet!

I'm hoping that there could be a further set of maps added by a developer out there, as-well as further planes (even if AI only) which could be used in more missions.

Planes that spring to mind are the B-26 and P-47N, although I am only looking at it from an Allied PoV, I'm sure the Axis side have loads (as well as other Allied) of planes to request.

That's why I was wondering, like Falcon 4, how much life is still left?

Loads I hope!

Cheers, MP

csThor
01-26-2008, 02:21 AM
None. For one Maddox Games will not work on Il-2 anymore after 4.09 is released officially. Second: They never gave the basic ability to import content out of their hands - not to business competitors and certainly not to "fans". Now while "business competitors" (= a company) might be a theoretical possibility I can't see any company taking on a ten-year-old engine with a load of content already in and the potential content being either banned by the owners of the rights (Maddox Games and Ubisoft - Channel Map, realistic MTO maps etc) or tarnished by copyright issues ("The Grumman Incident").

Capt.LoneRanger
01-26-2008, 03:10 AM
Falcon4 is still alive. That 10 year old game still has great advantages over modern games. The interactive dynamic campaign-system is still untouched the queen of all military simulations and since you can play it on different sides on the internet, it is also still flown online.

But as with IL2 the graphics ARE aged and the system has it's limits, even though the community made some awesome mods. IL2 will not die. With the hardware-compatibility and the price it is available now, it will bring many fans in the genre and hopefully there are enough people willing to provide online-servers to keep the heart of the sim pounding.


@ fabianfred:
Well, what you described about the missions is basically the central point here: IL2 was simply not built for these mass of objects around the airbases or large formations. So, that limiting is not only due to your PC but also to the games engine.
These things will be largely optimized on the experiences made with IL2, so once BoB is released, many people clutching to IL2 now will give BoB a warm welcome.

GerritJ9
01-26-2008, 07:44 AM
FBPF1946 won't disappear from my PC, even when I have bought BoB and its offspring for a very simple reason: my main interest lies in the Far East/Pacific theatre and it will be several years before 1C releases something for that area......... if at all.
And I don't expect any 3rd party to show any interest in a dated sim (by current standards), even with the large fanbase it has.

knightflyte
01-26-2008, 11:25 AM
I say let's ask Buddye over at Shockwave Forums.

They've done GREAT work over on BoB:WoV. Improvememnts that were probably thought impossible have been done. He's been hanging around here on UBI on occasion. I'd trust them to do a great job of continuing the IL2 tradition...... maybe even make REAL improvememnts to the game like AI, or some unmodeled aircraft.

I say this halfly in jest. The other half thinks it would be a great idea. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tater-SW-
01-26-2008, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
My short list of things I'd like to see fixed or changed:

* Add more maps to the QMB
You mean like every single map available in the QMB?


* Allow user-defined default skins
You mean something like the WINTER, SUMMER, and DESERT default skins being available arbitrarily? So such a default skin folder could have any name and work? (in addition to changing the defaults to whatever is appropriate)

Good ideas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tater

jarink
01-26-2008, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:
My short list of things I'd like to see fixed or changed:

* Add more maps to the QMB
You mean like every single map available in the QMB? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, why not?


Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">* Allow user-defined default skins
You mean something like the WINTER, SUMMER, and DESERT default skins being available arbitrarily? So such a default skin folder could have any name and work? (in addition to changing the defaults to whatever is appropriate)

Good ideas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tater </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I was thinking of something that could be as simple as a text file that would allow the user to specify default skins for each plane type for each map, similar to the way skins are assigned in .mis files.

something like...
[MAP Japan1]
Class air.B_24J100 B24J_380BG_Generic.bmp

bpcw001
06-30-2008, 09:39 AM
As some members have already pointed out correctly, the current IL2 can be played fluently at (almost) max settings by most people.

I'd rather keep that for a while and draw fun from it instead of again upgrading hardware and putting up with a version 1.0 buggy and stuttering sim because even current top hardware can't handle it properly.

BoB looks great, but I'll definitely let it chill out and have the rough edges removed before I'll jump on it.
By the time hardware will be advanced enough to play it fluently, and patches are out to make the new sim reasonably stable, we'll see further.

stalkervision
06-30-2008, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by knightflyte:
I say let's ask Buddye over at Shockwave Forums.

They've done GREAT work over on BoB:WoV. Improvememnts that were probably thought impossible have been done. He's been hanging around here on UBI on occasion. I'd trust them to do a great job of continuing the IL2 tradition...... maybe even make REAL improvememnts to the game like AI, or some unmodeled aircraft.

I say this halfly in jest. The other half thinks it would be a great idea. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


You ain't just whistling dixie brother. Check this thread out... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1...446dc6d4974dd2626a78 (http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10871&sid=f93ce21451e1446dc6d4974dd2626a78)

Bearcat99
06-30-2008, 09:44 AM
Hey jarink that's the B-17 Choctaw & I rode on a few weeks back...

ElAurens
06-30-2008, 10:37 AM
Not to be rude or anything, but Oleg will never allow IL2 to be taken over by another company, especially a competitor.

Like IL2 after FB, it will simply fade away.

I honestly think that after seeing SOW:BoB that '46 will be so antiquated looking that not many will be able to go back.

Scharnhorst1943
08-12-2009, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
[
See i don't get that. It's because of il2, and its continuing interest, that not only will i buy SoW, but plan to build my next Pc for it.



Well it was because of the original IL2 that we all purchased FB.

Anyone still playing the original IL2?

No.

'46 will be nothing but a fond memory within six months of the release of SOW;BoB.

Be sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the online crowd. Offliners will continue to play this game for a couple years, until the planeset for SOW gets a little bigger.

na85
08-12-2009, 07:13 PM
I think that there will remain a small base of people playing il2 until SoW moves to the eastern front and pacific theatres.

Choctaw111
08-12-2009, 07:32 PM
We now know that Il2 will be continued through a third party that Oleg has complete confidence in.
I am very excited about what will become available, and what new features we may receive.

Bearcat99
08-12-2009, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by na85:
I think that there will remain a small base of people playing il2 until SoW moves to the eastern front and pacific theatres.

A small base... riiiiigghht..

Bear in mind that there are many many folks who are just now getting into this sim due to hardware constraints etc.... I can't speak for anyone else... but until SoW gets up to speed with say..... 1945... I will be flying '46 regularly.. and I am certain that I am not alone. I look at this thread and I see all those who "are in the know" and it convinces me that most of us don't know jack when it comes to the future of this sim.

It is all speculation.

If someone had told half the old timers here who got into this sim in 2002 or earlier, myself included, that they'd still be flying this sim ... and loving it when it was d@mned near 2010 ... and that they would have all kinds of goodies right out of the box that were totally just wishes & dreams in 2002, not to mention that the sim would be hacked, and not only hacked but hacked by guys who were not the usual crowd of w@nkers that destroy a flight sim with mods, but many of them actually care about the sim, even if their creative mo was based on what some would call an illegal hack, and many of them have come out with some really,really,really, good stuff ..... that took this sim to places where some of those same old timers had been begging to get to for more than half a decade... that someone would have been told that they were crazy. That surely by 2010 somebody would come up with a better WWII sim.... Well with 4.5 months left in 2009 .. it hasn't happened yet... I am not holding my breath.

This sim is the shiznit, the bee's knees, the cat's meow, da bomb, and a really hot piece of kit all rolled into one.... and I would not be surprised in the least if it was still being flown regularly by at least 3 figures (read that as 100+) worth of flight sim junkies somewhere in cyberspace in 2015. I might not be flying it... if SoW gets where I want it to be by then, and I haven't dropped dead, been captured by aliens or terrorists or such.. but somebody will. I met a guy in Microcenter who still does mods for CFS2... so...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

I'm just sayin.......................... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

BRASSTURTLE
08-13-2009, 11:31 AM
I intend to keep flying this sim until my arms fall off. This antiquated, tired, outmoded, dead, has-been 10 year old sim runs like a madman on my 7 year old pc, especially after I upgraded to 2GB of ram last year. I have been twitching due to my lack of flight time caused by controller issues. And i do break out the original Il2 from time to time, if for no other reason than the sounds. Nothing like hearing that cannon shell rip past your head to let you know your SA is crap.
It is great that SOW will look like magic compared to FRAEPPF1946. Doesn't mean I will be able to run it.

I would dearly love to see the items that Puma & Jarink are talking about. The P-47N would be a great addition, allowing for many more late-war PTO mission mayhem, as well as giving a bolster to 1946 fantasy missions VVS vs USAF cold war missions & the like. The lack of the B-26 is nothing short of criminal.
As for Axis planes, the He-115 would be a great addition, the Henschel Hs-123 dive bomber for early war & Eastern front, the Shinden, & the Ki-44 Shoki would all be great. Flyable or not.
Really, any flyable, carrier based aircraft would be huge for many of the PTO people.

I fly offline and do not use mods, so "official" mods & add-ons would be like manna from heaven for me. Having all maps available for QMB would be like me getting a brand new sim. I have neither the patience or time or skill to use FMB to build missions, so I spend a lot of time in QMB.

crucislancer
08-13-2009, 12:47 PM
I'm just happy that we are getting more new planes. I figured that once 4.09 became final, we would get the new maps and maybe a bug fix or two. I'm glad I'm wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Even though my time playing this sim has been cut way back, I expect to be playing it for years to come.

hirosangels
08-13-2009, 02:00 PM
Once 4.09 is released

and SOW is out .. .

IL-2 1946 will still be popular. There will be lots of aces that like it. And since there will be some adjustment for the FM's and DM's with SOW, going back to being uber in 46.


THere will be people that will want for SOW series to come out with its next iterations for more areas and planesets.

IL-2 can run on even the oldest of dual cores (I know because I'm running the last of the single core PC's and IL-2 runs fine on it) and I know BOB SOW will require a beast of a PC to run.

IL-2 is endearing and one of the flight Sim's that actually held on for me. No other game has stopped me from playing my other PC genre's of games I love and play. I did love MiG Alley but it was easy even on realistic compared to IL-2's realistic FM.

And the community strong after so many years. Not even with favorite old MMO's like Asheron's Call or Ultima Online commands this. They have people but not with the fervor I've seen with IL-2. Maybe World of Warcrack, but half the players complain bitterly about their game as they play it. Not here w/ IL-2. I mean you got the Focke Wulf crowd upset, but its not as bad as WOW's complaints. And the WOW community oh, its like picking through a barrel of rotten apples to find a good one.

At least you guys/gals here for IL-2 are better in all aspects.

There will also be people playing 1946 and BOB SOW just for nostalgic laughs as they compare the details between the two (I used to do that when I was into the Final Fantasy series).

And the team doing 4.09 patch has discussed continuing support for 1946 . . .

BillSwagger
08-13-2009, 03:20 PM
i project that Il2 will still carry on for many more years for several reasons.
Its still being developed and supported by TD, which is a huge plus in the life of this game.

Il2 also has variety that newer sims don't come close to.

SOW will have the new engine with more detailed modeling.
This will be great, but the BoB release will still only offer about 16 planes, and i project that it will be largely a 109 v Spitfire game.

There's also the performance issue, that's already been mentioned, i just dont see every player rushing out and buying a top notch gaming system to get the most out of SOW. Who knows, that might not even be an issue.


The downside for Il2 is its detail. The modeling has reached its limit in a lot of ways. SoW will outshine Il2 in this way, and people who play SoW will have a very difficult time enjoying the older format of Il2.

RickRuski
08-13-2009, 03:37 PM
Il2 will carry on for some years yet in my opinion as the "Mods" have given this sim a lifeline to keep Olegs fans happy until he can get BOB-SOW to the market. Now there is talk of a WW1 add on in development it shows just how good the original "Il2" engine is, being well ahead of its time both in flexibility and forward thinking.The new maps becoming available with higher detail is bringing more interest in other theaters of WW2 (and WW1 if the add on becomes available). Long live Oleg's skill and foresight in bring us this wonderful flight sim we have all come to love, who would have thought after eight years, that this sim could still have the enthuisiasm from its fans that it has.

stiboo2
08-13-2009, 04:20 PM
I think the horse has already bolted....

We are already playing with many new maps and planes, and many more are on the way such as WW1, RAF Heavies, lots more Japanese planes, Korea, and tweaks and updates to exisiting aircraft, it's a great time for OUR new game - IL2,1914-1954.

It is us fans that will make or break any simulation, and I do not think Oleg will take any action against any IL2 modders due to the fact that in 13 months his new sim will support and encourage mods.( and the fact that no action has been taken against all the hundreds of mods already made)

I think it's great that we all love different aspects of this game, different theatres, aircraft, wars...skinners, modders, mission builders, researchers..

Did any of us imagine that we'd still be playing IL2 in 2009?!

enjoy

------------------------------------------------

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." Charles Darwin

Scharnhorst1943
08-13-2009, 05:13 PM
I for one will enjoy IL2 1946 MORE after SOW comes out. Because all of the online guys will go over to SOW, then FINALY the offline guys will get what they have been wanting, like FM fix for Avenger ... or historical weapon load outs for AI planes without having to add a duplicate new slot plane ...

Seriously though, even though it has to be done to preserve online flying for IL2, all the duplicates in my plane list is a real pain in the you know what.

I think everyone underestimates the offline crowd. There will be people enjoying this game perhaps a century from now. Hell, I even fire up Aces over the Pacific or even the original Doom 95 every now and then. Great games seem to never die with those that enjoy them, and this has DEFINITELY been up there on the great games list.