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Vassago5k
06-27-2004, 10:03 PM
I'm wondering if anything has been done, to increase performence in the pixel shaders used for "perfect" water in FB. I can run games like FarCry at 40-50fps, yet the "perfect" water in IL2FB simply kills my machine, down to 5-10fps some times. With the water set to excellant, I'm back up to 70-80FPS again.

Any comments from you dev guys?

- Vassago
3D Artist
Level Designer
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Vassago5k
06-27-2004, 10:03 PM
I'm wondering if anything has been done, to increase performence in the pixel shaders used for "perfect" water in FB. I can run games like FarCry at 40-50fps, yet the "perfect" water in IL2FB simply kills my machine, down to 5-10fps some times. With the water set to excellant, I'm back up to 70-80FPS again.

Any comments from you dev guys?

- Vassago
3D Artist
Level Designer
5000ft Inc,. (http://www.5000ft.com)
http://www.digitalinfluence.net/images/sig.jpg

RAAF_Edin
06-28-2004, 12:02 AM
I am sure you don't run FarCry at it's absolute max settings... which by the way is what you're doing if you run IL-2 at Perfect. Also, IL-2 is very CPU demanding.

And in case you use ATI video card, try the 4.7 BETA drivers... they improve the performance in Perfect a lot.

But anyway... another thing you can do is set (in "config.ini" file)

Water=0 and Forest=0

and that will improve the performance a lot also.

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eobet
06-28-2004, 03:06 AM
That was a rather ignorant response, wasn't it RAAF_Edin?

A pixel shader has nothing to with the CPU. That's the point of using a pixel shader. It is in the GPU on the graphics card.

(I still want actual polygon waves in PF, btw, and not just a flat, shaded plane.)

WUAF_Badsight
06-28-2004, 05:01 AM
no you dont understand eobet

FPS in FB is as CPU dependant as the GPU

its a whole system stresser

getting good FPS (especially in perfect mode) is about having a good system as a whole rather than just a good GPU

the driver also makes a big difference

just up there Edin gave some good info & tips

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eobet
06-28-2004, 05:58 AM
Drivers do make a difference, so that is a good tip. But, WUAF_Badsight, if you look at the top post again:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vassago5k:
...the "perfect" water in IL2FB simply kills my machine, down to 5-10fps some times. With the water set to excellant, I'm back up to 70-80FPS again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It looks like he just toggled the water on and off and observed the performance changes.

What is so CPU demanding about water detail?

I understand that AI and physics take a lot of CPU, but not water.

(Especially not since it's one huge plane... probably just a few polygons, since there aren't any 3D waves.)

RAAF_Edin
06-28-2004, 07:11 AM
I don't have a slightest idea why you think I was ignorant... I just said that IL-2 as a software is more dependent on the CPU then most others.

Latest ATI drivers really do make a major difference also! Before the 4.6 (beside the artifacts) I only tried the "perfect" mode and it just wasn't playable at all... with 4.7 BETA (same performance as 4.6 and no artifacts) I play "perfect" all the time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

He stated that he can get as low as 5fps is exactly what I get as absolute lowest frame rate on "perfect" also, bare in mind, this is on the Pacific islands map only. Playing, say on any "inland" map, and I get over 50fps easy average even with some 14 aircraft in combat.

Now, I am not a specialist on how the whole GPU is made and functions but surely game codes vary from title to title, and use different calculations, GPU features and so on. In the end, if I can play "perfect" on my machine (I still say to myself I can't believe I play in this mode quite smooth) then IL-2 code is not that bad at all.

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Vassago5k
06-28-2004, 03:26 PM
Well my point is, "perfect" mode, only concerns the shaders on the water. Since this is "PACIFIC" fighters, there will be nothing but oceans and islands to fight over. One example is the water in Lock On. It doesn't slow my fps down at all - and it looks equal to if not better than, the FB shaders. I can play just fine on interior scenes on "perfect" mode in FB, but it's those coastal regions that simply kill me. PF will have a LOT of those areas, so that's why I wanted to know if the shader performence is being improved.

- Vassago
3D Artist
Level Designer
5000ft Inc,. (http://www.5000ft.com)
http://www.digitalinfluence.net/images/sig.jpg

VW-IceFire
06-28-2004, 04:52 PM
Perfect Mode does a couple of things.

1) It boosts the level of detail on terrain so that mountains and other details retain their high level of detail further out and you see less terrain popup.

2) It boosts the visual range out to where the fog begins. Even in perfect mode there is fog on the horizon to block out the rest of the details. This is somewhat realistic to real visual conditions but its also a consideration of the system performance.

3) It adds pixel shaded water. Its particularly complex as well...especially the Level 2 Pixel Shaded Water which may quite possibly some of the most complex shaders used until maybe only recently. Light refraction, reflections from terrain and sky and a variety of shades and hues as well as variable waves and whatnot depending on weather conditions are all a part of that.

4) I believe it also adds more complexity to shadows from clouds and changes the detail levels of light shading on vehicles and aircraft...although I can't really confirm that...things just look a little smoother I think.

Try going into your settings and playing with the water settings in the OpenGL section (settings.cfg I think it is). There are three levels of pixel shaded water: 0, 1 and 2. The number 2 is default and absolutely FPS killing. Levels 1 and 0 are much more managable.

The other point is that graphics performance is overally affected by CPU performance which is also hit on by the sound card in a fairly big way. Excellent mode can function just fine and Perfect mode can put the CPU stress over the top and cause a serious backlog...its the sum total. Even if the graphics card is doing the number crunching, the CPU still manages it all in the end.

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Merlin (FZG_Immel)
06-28-2004, 05:15 PM
I suggest they give us the choice to choose all parameters of so called perfect mode manually.. So maybe one could choose normal water (exellent), but use far terrain clipping+ far fog etc etc.

btw, I have P4 2.7ghz + ati9800pro and I run perfect mod + water1. water 2 kill my fps.. btw, water o is already as nice as medium water in LOCKON.. and water1 is much nicer-

water 1 and 2 add more dergees of reflexions.

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Vassago5k
06-29-2004, 08:12 AM
I agree, Merlin. I edited the config and I can run perfect mode (water1) at very high frame rates. But why is the pixel shaded water in particlar, THAT demanding? The water FX in FarCry are WAY better, yet they aren't even 1/2 as taxing on my system.In fact, I'm not sure if it's the water itself - I think it's the water castics that are killing my frame rate. Those are the reflective greenish areas near the shortline.
But yea, I'd like to be able to turn off the caustics, but keep the water shaders. Or select full water, and keep far clipping on, as you said. Being able to set all options like that would really help.

- Vassago
3D Artist
Level Designer
5000ft Inc,. (http://www.5000ft.com)
http://www.digitalinfluence.net/images/sig.jpg