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View Full Version : Oleg 3 planes need fixing



Gwalker70
12-13-2004, 07:41 PM
P47 needs "zoom climb" ability which was one of the great things about that plane.

P38 L needs its real performance .. have you read the actual reports of that plane? it should outperform a P51 D .. except for high-high speed manuvering.

Dora is around 30 KPH to slow at 6000 meters.. please give this overall fastest plane 6k meters and below its historical value.


P.S Mustang D is a bit too fast below 6000 meters

BBB_Hyperion
12-13-2004, 07:52 PM
Will be fixed ASAP as the amount of proofs is unbeatable .

Gwalker70
12-13-2004, 09:23 PM
i dont understand what you mean??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

TAGERT.
12-13-2004, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gwalker70:
i dont understand what you mean??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>He means you have not presented any FACTS/DATA to back up your statments.

Gwalker70
12-13-2004, 10:13 PM
but people have and nothing is done ask Zen and Robban and others

LEXX_Luthor
12-13-2004, 11:51 PM
If you asked robban, he will tell you much has been done in response to player testing and data.

crazyivan1970
12-13-2004, 11:55 PM
What Lexx said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WWMaxGunz
12-14-2004, 06:41 AM
Much of the P-47 zoom is about ability to pull up and change direction cleanly.
It's not automatic, some skill is needed to not lose energy there. Try and see
if the 190's are not as good in the same, for a heavy plane the P-47 is very good
at that where transition of the 190 has to be done slower and more carefully.
Still it does not mean any guarantee in the P-47 and you blow E with a plane that
heavy, with the lower powerloading then don't expect to get it back so quick.

VW-IceFire
12-14-2004, 07:41 AM
What...you think the P-47's zoom climb isn't very good? Man...go back and play 1.01 and then come back and tell me that the current 3.02bm has bad zoom climb. Frankly, its downright awesome now.

You haven't presented any evidence however. Oleg doesn't really listen without proper documentation and nor should he.

Furthermore, I would submit that stuff to him directly via e-mail if you have documents and performance trials that support whatever you were claiming (to which I actually have no idea).

Honestly...how is the P-38 out performing the P-51D. The P-38 was an excellent plane but I haven't seen any specs anywhere that suggest that it was faster or more manuverable than the Mustang. Do enlighten.

mortoma
12-14-2004, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
What...you think the P-47's zoom climb isn't very good? Man...go back and play 1.01 and then come back and tell me that the current 3.02bm has bad zoom climb. Frankly, its downright awesome now.

You haven't presented any evidence however. Oleg doesn't really listen without proper documentation and nor should he.

Furthermore, I would submit that stuff to him directly via e-mail if you have documents and performance trials that support whatever you were claiming (to which I actually have no idea).

Honestly...how is the P-38 out performing the P-51D. The P-38 was an excellent plane but I haven't seen any specs anywhere that suggest that it was faster or more manuverable than the Mustang. Do enlighten. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've read time and time again that the P-38 was a wickedly tight turning aircraft. Admittedly, that offers little fact, just anecdotal statements from many sources. What was it's turn rate and what was the speed it turned best at?? I don't know. But I do know that the P-38 in the game doesn't turn very well at any speed. Makes you think that indeed something might be amiss somewhere. Just from the anecdotal evidence from the pilots, I'd say that the Lightning should turn as well or better as the 109s at some speed, but it doesn't, 109s turn circles around it in the game, in all speed ranges. Just wish I could come up with facts and figures.

WOLFMondo
12-14-2004, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gwalker70:
P47 needs "zoom climb" ability which was one of the great things about that plane.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, but you aint flying it right then. The P47 zoom climbs nicely.

_Neveraine_
12-14-2004, 06:08 PM
You need cold hard evidence guys, I've read reports by German pilots that the 109 was the best fighter of WW2 even in 1945 (We all know it was http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) but opinions are taken with a grain of salt. Cold hard evidence is needed.

Daiichidoku
12-14-2004, 06:13 PM
Ummmmmmm its WAY more than just 3 planes that need fixin.....

Gwalker70
12-14-2004, 06:56 PM
i dont see the true zoom climb in P47.. please state how to do it.. is there magical plane settings?

Yes the P38 L model(just the L model) was a great performer in climb and flat speed and acceleration. it outperfomed the P51 D in real life and was the same or close to the f4U 4 which blew away the P51 D as well.. but I have seen much documentation on this and references ect already posted here on the P38 L MODEL and Dora flat speed below 6 k meters already.

Bull_dog_
12-14-2004, 07:22 PM
facts, facts, facts...there are always those facts...and for every fact there is a contradicting counter fact... the trick is to provide facts to Oleg in a way that makes him believe you because there are all sorts of facts out there...many errors copied over and over.

I find the statement "get facts" about as lame as providing no facts at all. Oleg has lots of facts, I have lots of facts, but I don't think they match real well and I really can't say for sure that Olegs are better or worse than mine, but I know this...based on what I've read, combat records, history, anectodotal information I would agree that something is amiss in energy modelling and it shows up in the P-47 because based on anecdotal comments, combat records, history and combat tactics the Jug was superior in dive/zoom. The L model Lightning is in a similar category....lots of facts, some contradicting. The darn plane doesn't even have water injection, my facts state that it does.

My point here is, to be blunt, that I doubt all of issues that people point out are related to lack of facts. Just about every plane modelled has opportunity to be brought closer to realism than in its current form and some more than others. I suspect that Oleg and developers put their energy where they think they need to and people in this forum help that out through posts, debate and dialog.

Instead of bashing a poster for lack of facts, how about debate the subject and why we think the way we do and invite Oleg to continue to improve the FM and DM of various aircraft.

Not including some of the oddball aircraft that have made it into the sim, I believe the Lightning, both models, have serious errors in their modelling that need addressed. What I don't know is if Oleg hasn't had time or doesn't think anything is wrong. There are glaring problems with compressibility, boost, speed and agility and I've seen plenty of facts to back this up both here in the forum and elsewhere. Problem is, I'm not sure which ones are most realistic...I wonder how Oleg determines that?

VW-IceFire
12-14-2004, 09:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
What...you think the P-47's zoom climb isn't very good? Man...go back and play 1.01 and then come back and tell me that the current 3.02bm has bad zoom climb. Frankly, its downright awesome now.

You haven't presented any evidence however. Oleg doesn't really listen without proper documentation and nor should he.

Furthermore, I would submit that stuff to him directly via e-mail if you have documents and performance trials that support whatever you were claiming (to which I actually have no idea).

Honestly...how is the P-38 out performing the P-51D. The P-38 was an excellent plane but I haven't seen any specs anywhere that suggest that it was faster or more manuverable than the Mustang. Do enlighten. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've read time and time again that the P-38 was a wickedly tight turning aircraft. Admittedly, that offers little fact, just anecdotal statements from many sources. What was it's turn rate and what was the speed it turned best at?? I don't know. But I do know that the P-38 in the game doesn't turn very well at any speed. Makes you think that indeed something might be amiss somewhere. Just from the anecdotal evidence from the pilots, I'd say that the Lightning should turn as well or better as the 109s at some speed, but it doesn't, 109s turn circles around it in the game, in all speed ranges. Just wish I could come up with facts and figures. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
IMHO, the P-38 has one of the best instantaneous turn rates of any plane in the entire game. Maybe not the I-16 or the I-153 but of the faster planes...the P-38 turns darned fast.

Here's how you do it. Build up lots of speed...like most USAAF fighters your advantage is going to be having speed and your opponent not having it.

Now if you have the P-38J it doesn't work as well but use the combat flaps (nothing more, the others will damage) and bank and hammer down on that elevator. You should be turning fast enough to out manuver most planes for the duration of time needed to plant that 20mm and 4 .50cals on target. With the P-38L, drop the dive brakes and the effect is simply massive.

The P-38 has a great turn rate at higher speeds, like the P-47 and FW190 do. At these speeds its very impressive in its turn...at low speeds its feeling very heavy. Now this is where the P-38 isn't modeled quite correctly based on evidence of fights with other fighters. At tree top level the P-38 had an advantage against 109s and 190s in that it could hang on its props because there was no torque. It was very easy and very stable for the P-38 pilot to hold a 38 in a stall turn at low speed and low alt while a Bf 109 pilot would be fighting torque and the extension of his leading edge slats. But this is a dangerous situation for ANY plane to be in (low and slow)...so I avoid it like the plague and I'm sure most real P-38 pilots did too!

So keep your speed up...around 400 kph...you can out turn Zero's and some other fighters at this speed...not for a prolonged period of time but you can very quickly bring that nose to bear. Thats what is impressive about this planes turn.

The magic with the P-47 zoom climb is this. Trim the plane and don't fight the controls. Too many people think they can zoom climb like a modern jet fighter. Not possible; turns, rolls, and any sorts of manuvers burn more energy than just the zoom itself. So keep it trimmed and try and focus on againing altitude. This is mind you, once you have considerable speed...like after initating a dive or running flat out for a few minutes.

DarthBane_
12-14-2004, 11:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gwalker70:
P47 needs "zoom climb" ability which was one of the great things about that plane.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, but you aint flying it right then. The P47 zoom climbs nicely. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like Jug so much, but cannt fly it due to ugly cockpit, ****.

WOLFMondo
12-15-2004, 12:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gwalker70:
i dont see the true zoom climb in P47.. please state how to do it.. is there magical plane settings?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go to altitude (5000+m), level off and attain some speed, pick a target, follow the target and figure them out, dive, fire, ignore the temptation to turn or roll if they see you and try to avoid you (use slight adjustments to get your aim sorted), pull up gradually and firewall the throtte, if you have vapour trails on the wings your pulling up to sharp, if you do it right you'll attain most of the altitude you lost during the dive, with works better and better the higher you are etc. Patiencehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As Icefire says, trim, trim is really handy with that plane.