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View Full Version : Every time you buy a console shooter, GOD kills a flight sim.



Col_Tibbetts
02-02-2005, 08:58 AM
TRUE

ImpStarDuece
02-02-2005, 09:04 AM
Every time you make a post, a flight simmer cries. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

VF51_Flatspin
02-02-2005, 09:08 AM
What's a console shooter?

XyZspineZyX
02-02-2005, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF51_Flatspin:
What's a console shooter? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



something, that i would kick all your asses in!

ImpStarDuece
02-02-2005, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF51_Flatspin:
What's a console shooter? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember a guy called Karl? Karl Marx? He started some political party, or something, a long time ago, you know like before the 80's, that basically did nothing, or something. Well, anyway, its not around anymore. Good ideas though. Besides, he had a cool beard.

Anyway; He once made a little comment something along the lines of "religion is the opiate of the masses", aparently this still gets some people upset, or something. I think he was just refering to all the incense they burn at chuch. It makes me feel wierd. Besides I'm sure the Jesuit priests who taught me were on something, or something.

Right, now replace the word 'religion' with "console shooter" and 'masses' with "noobs" and you basically have the same thing in an internet based context. Simple really.

Oh and before some people fly on line they sacrafice a live fly to the gods of the motherboard and low ping, or something. Well maybe not a fly, more like a beer. Or a scotch. Or vodka. Or something.

Obi_Kwiet
02-02-2005, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF51_Flatspin:
What's a console shooter? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A blight upon the earth.

BSS_Goat
02-02-2005, 09:30 AM
ImpStarDuece Says:
Right, now replace the word religion with "console shooter" and masses with "noobs" and you basically have the some thing in an internet based context. Simple really.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

SeminoleX
02-02-2005, 09:30 AM
I never understood how anyone could sit through a MTV program....but many people obiviously do...and like the console market...MTV chalks up a huge audience.

Instead of complaining about the console market's success...maybe someone in PC world ought to understand the ways and means they use to deliver the goods to their customers.

T_O_A_D
02-02-2005, 09:31 AM
I really doubt God has anything to do with it.

The almighty Dollar is at fault, and the lazy nature of the consumer to want their fix quick,instead of spending counltess hours tweaking and twiddling with a PC to run a high end simulation.

VF51_Flatspin
02-02-2005, 09:38 AM
Still not sure what you guys are talking about. I got that Karl Marx had the first idea, albeit, wrong; that it is a blight; and that lazy people will destroy the world...

...is it a piece of hardware like multi-engine throttles or something?

Sorry I'm a bit thick here...I just honestly haven't got a clue what it is. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

DuxCorvan
02-02-2005, 09:44 AM
Everybody knows Marx built his first XBOX with Engels's money...

He was like the bro'-in-law I never wanted to have.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

T_O_A_D
02-02-2005, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF51_Flatspin:
Still not sure what you guys are talking about. I got that Karl Marx had the first idea, albeit, wrong; that it is a blight; and that lazy people will destroy the world...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is playstations, Xboxes,Atari's, Nintendo's, Sega's bla bla bla

VF51_Flatspin
02-02-2005, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
It is playstations, Xboxes,Atari's, Nintendo's, Sega's bla bla bla <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh...eww...http://www.jg51.net/forums/images/smilies/puke.gif

Capt._Tenneal
02-02-2005, 10:00 AM
Every time you buy a console shooter, GOD kills a flight sim.

If you mean Gathering Of Developers, I believe you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CapBackassward
02-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Actually I've played a couple of first person shooters I kinda enjoyed but they're not my favorite genre of game. You really get more value out of Flight Sims and Sports Games. When you get tired of them you can just put them down for awhile and go back later and they're fun and fresh again. First person shooters - once they are played - loose their freshness. The replay value is low once you've done everything. Not worth the money when comparing them to Flight Sims and Sports games.

my two cents,
Rick

Gunner_361st
02-02-2005, 02:55 PM
Most major console shooters either start out at or shift to the PC market. Divine intervention has nothing to do with the PC flight sim market; appeal does.

To buy and use this game, which we like to call a flight simulator, you really need to meet a laundry list of requirements.

1 - Some interest, however remote, in Aviation
2 - Knowledge of how to Map Commands and Keys
3 - The time to memorize all these key commands or make a chart detailing what everything does
4 - The patience to deal with bugs and other problems, and the ungodly number of patches released to fix them. This pertains both to game stability and the oh so infamous "realism" argument in the overly vocal multiplayer market.
5 - A few more reasons I'm too tired to think of right now.

Entertainment is Entertainment. Lazyness is a minor factor, in my opinion. Millions of Americans can watch a whole sports game. I can barely sit through 15 minutes of one without wandering off and doing something I find more stimulating. Like using this sim.

I really don't see the PC flight sim market growing to any serious degree anytime soon. As long as there are enough of us to keep the products coming, then that I think is enough. Just imagine the negative repercusions of a dramatically expanded market. How many airquakers would you like to see online, as if the ones there now aren't already irritating enough?

Chuck_Older
02-02-2005, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:
TRUE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FALSE


Everytime God does that, he kills a kitten. Be sure

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/prayerkitty.jpg

Airmail109
02-02-2005, 03:13 PM
I buy console games because I cant afford two Pcs.........you see I really enjoy gaming with my bro!

papaboon
02-02-2005, 03:18 PM
Console gamers....BLASPHEMY, quick stone them! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif



Plain and simple........PC sims intimidate the console gamer, to many functions tied to so many keyshttp://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/CUSSING.GIF

"What do ya mean everyone of these buttons do something different???"

Airmail109
02-02-2005, 03:22 PM
I do play merged PF though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
02-02-2005, 03:39 PM
Hi,

Impressive snobbery! Do you really think there would be many game developers around if it weren't for the cash generated by "shooter" games on consoles etc? The days of writing games in bedrooms is over; these days you need decent dev teams with good graphics people/modellers for the eye candy + time to polish = significant sums of money. That means backing from serious players.

Recent reports suggest that the increases in capabilility of hardware is causing developers to have to put more effort (i.e. risking larger amounts of money) into making titles that befit the hardware and this will mean a lot of well established names either going under or being swallowed up by people like EA. Or, more likely, "cheaper" contract dev teams in places like former Eastern Bloc/India/etc

I actually welcome the masses spending 40 quid a throw on the "cool for a picosecond" bulk of console titles as the revenue generated may take the pressure of those people in a publisher's developer portfolio who are making things like Il-2.

Cheers,
Norris

horseback
02-02-2005, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF51_Flatspin:
What's a console shooter? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember a guy called Karl? Karl Marx? He started some political party, or something, a long time ago, you know like before the 80's, that basically did nothing, or something. Well, anyway, its not around anymore. Good ideas though. Besides, he had a cool beard.

Anyway; He once made a little comment something along the lines of "religion is the opiate of the masses", aparently this still gets some people upset, or something. I think he was just refering to all the incense they burn at chuch. It makes me feel wierd. Besides I'm sure the Jesuit priests who taught me were on something, or something.

Right, now replace the word 'religion' with "console shooter" and 'masses' with "noobs" and you basically have the same thing in an internet based context. Simple really.

Oh and before some people fly on line they sacrafice a live fly to the gods of the motherboard and low ping, or something. Well maybe not a fly, more like a beer. Or a scotch. Or vodka. Or something. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, would this be, like, a reference to Godless Console-ism?

cheers

horseback

JunkoIfurita
02-02-2005, 04:32 PM
Pshaw, what are you people talking about? Crimson Skies for the XBox is, like, the greatest flight sim ever created, like, ever!

*runs for cover* http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sharkey888
02-02-2005, 05:22 PM
Or creates one!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/mid3.jpg

Mjollnir111675
02-02-2005, 05:37 PM
THAT kinda water on a console!!
Cant be!!
Has to be a hitch somewhere!!
Perhaps the console makers have a disclaimer that says you have to wait for the next version of said console that has the shader abilities before the "water" goes into effect?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

HEY 1-C: PIMP OUR TORP PLANES!! The Av#$&er IS the NEW Il-2!!

ThreeCrow
02-02-2005, 06:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Everybody knows Marx built his first XBOX with Engels's money...

He was like the bro'-in-law I never wanted to have.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmmmm..... so that's why I have that bro-in-law.

I think that money was from elsewhere..... if I recall correctly...... the very first, very clunky electric train I ever had was a "Marx" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good memories..... now harsh reality. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

fordfan25
02-02-2005, 07:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
I really doubt God has anything to do with it.

The almighty Dollar is at fault, and the lazy nature of the consumer to want their fix quick,instead of spending counltess hours tweaking and twiddling with a PC to run a high end simulation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats what a JOB is for. i dont want to have to work 8+ hours a day to pay for a game and a 2000$ doller pc to run it on just to spend even more hours haveing to figure out why it doesnt run right. that is why consoles and there games sell.when you go buy something you know its going to work. its not about being lazy. thats like saying just because i dont cook my spagitie one noodle at a time im lazy.that and the BS prices for PC parts that have to be replaced every two years if you want 30fps in a game and not have to run it on low settings. i love PC games like this one as well as games like HL2 and Doom3 ect but its a very costly and problamatic way to game. it might not seem so bad for those who have a large bank account or all the time in the world to figure out why the water in CoD keeps flashing green and yellow or dont mind down loading driver after driver and patch after patch. not trying to take sides. and dont get me wrong PC gameing has its advanteges as well. great forums with helpfull guys like this one help alot.have you guys seen the sales figures for games sold for last year. heck even handheld "gameboy" game sales were higher than pc game sales. and console games sales were WAY WAY higher. avg Joe just doesnt want to spend as much time trying to fix a game as playing it. it would be like going out and buying a new car and then trying to figure out why it wont run on anything but 87 octan gas sold only in amco stations at 5:00 pm on saterdays. "just ask a chevy owner lol" dont get me wrong when thay work right i have more fun with the AVG PC game but man it can be a real pain.

Eraser_tr
02-02-2005, 09:14 PM
Don't dis PC shooters, there is quality entertainment in them. HL 2 Doom 3 and Call of Duty come to mind.

Consoles should be stabbed to death with a rusty spork though. M$ F&$# Halo's and sony red faction's original designs and made them into lame console titles instead of ground breaking PC titles.

There's plenty of replayability in multiplayer, RPG's are great too (not that final fantasy **** though, real rpg's like morrowind)

*most* games don't take too much, if any tweaking on the PC, if you can't follow simple install instructions though, you deserve to be shovel fed poorly rendered and designed console games.

The key to PC upgrading is to never do it all at once. a hundred (or two) a year would be able to keep pretty much everything relatively up to date, but you have to buy the best. 2 years ago I bought a 2.4ghz and its still well ahead of the game. I've upgraded my video card and memory since then of course, but memory is cheap.

Badsight.
02-02-2005, 10:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papaboon:
Plain and simple........PC sims intimidate the console gamer, to many functions tied to so many <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
sounds like a FB player looking at LOMAC for the first time . . . . .

then un-installing it & talking about it later

fordfan25
02-02-2005, 10:10 PM
ah but there it is. you have to by the best. what im talking is you can buy a console when it first comes out for 300 bucks US and itll last 5 years. heck a good mid rang Gcard will cost that and need to be updated in a couple of years. that doesnt even include CPU MOBO ram ect. and i dont know if that was ment for me about following install instructions but yes i do know how. just look atr all the problems that crop up in this game alone when a new driver or something comes out."poorly rendered and designed console games". there are infact alot of great console games. i just beat RE4 and i will say graghics not standing i thought it was every bit as good as doom3 or HL2 heck the charicter moddles were just as good looking and thats on a system that was only 200 bucks 3 or 4 years ago. sure not high res textures but hay i didnt pay 500 bucks for the graghics chip in it or a big screen monitor eather. all im saying is both the PC as well as the console market has alot to learn from one another. also ill take FF6 over morrowind any day "16bit hardcore foreva http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif"

dont think im completly ragn on the PCs now. the whole resone i got a PC was so i could play the types of games that cant be made on consoles like this one as well as the upcomeing Silent hunter. its apples and Oj. i just wish i didnt have to pay 300 bucks for a 6800 thatll be slow in a game 2 years from now or 400 for a gt that might last a extra year. as well as all the other hardwear.

Col_Tibbetts
02-02-2005, 11:16 PM
LOL!

Youse guys is funny!

Seriously though, our great hobby (for whatever reason) now takes the back burner to console shooter development. That is where the big money is made and that is where the majority of dev talent has gone. This holds true at least in the USA. Oleg is the last of a dying breed. By the measure of the lack of resources Ubisoft gave him in finishing PF, his time may be coming as well. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back our way. Remember how synthetic aperature radar was modeled for Janes F15? Do you think we will ever see that level of "systems emersion" again? These are dark times indeed.

BTW...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

Every time you make a post, a flight simmer cries. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am I beginning to have a following??? LOL!

And for the record...

I am not now, nor have I ever been, RBJ!

LEXX_Luthor
02-03-2005, 12:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oleg is the last of a dying breed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We have not yet felt the consequences of Microsoft retreating from the combat flight sim market.

btw...Oleg had a baby last year. Starting him/her out with QBasic programming we assume. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Smidlee
02-03-2005, 07:12 AM
With the next wave on consoles on their way in 2006, I believe this will hurt PC games even more. Consoles has a lot of advantages over the PC. First consoles are design for games and has all it's hardware built-in. This is a big plus for game designers since they know exactly what everyone has so games run smoother on consoles. Since more people buy consoles , Sony and Microsoft can built better hardware with less the cost to the consumer. It harder to make illegal copies of consoles games. It's easier to rent console games. A lot of gamers like to play a game week or two then play something different.you can lay on your couch since consoles is made for TV also it's more convenient to play on consoles when friends are over. and so on.
While I'm more of a pc gamer myself I can easily see more designers wanting to produce games for consoles. As more gamers are turning towards consoles, there is less reason for them to keep upgrading their PC. I know many gamers who was heavy PC gamers became more consoles gamers when PS2 and X-box came out.As their PC is ageing, they're buying less PC games. I believe the gap on graphics between consoles vs PC will easily be closed in the next generation of consoles. Who knows maybe BOB will come out for PS3?

Col_Tibbetts
02-03-2005, 09:20 AM
You are 200% right Smidlee.

If you are a shooter fan then you have nothing to worry about. The gap will close between PC GPUs and console GPUs probably allowing crossover between the two.

However, like it or not, flight sims require keyboards since even the simplest WWII aircraft has more controls than can fit on a game controller. Try really hard to manage two engines worth of prop, mixture and throttle controls on a PS2 controller. Can't do it can ya! Now open the cowl flaps. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now take a modern jet sim and you are really out of luck. Remember all the keys to memorize in the Janes series?

Yes, the masses are asses and all that lot. But who can stop them. They have the buying power. I am a capitalist at heart so I guess I shouldn't complain. But in the words of Joe Walsh, "sometimes I still do."

THERE IS HOPE HOWEVER!

If developers who care about detailed flight sims (:cough: Oleg and 1C Maddox Games :cough: ) would do business directly to the consumer and bypass software publishers entirely then the shackles of publisher mismanagement would be cast away!

Imagine if Oleg sold this whole series over the Internet by allowing people to download the whole thing instead of buying it at a store. Ubisoft would not be needed at all. Now I realize that all the 56k people out there would be in a bind but I am sure some smart person could figure out something for them.

Dare to dream, dare to dream.

Smidlee
02-03-2005, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:
You are 200% right Smidlee.



However, like it or not, flight sims require keyboards since even the simplest WWII aircraft has more controls than can fit on a game controller. Try really hard to manage two engines worth of prop, mixture and throttle controls on a PS2 controller. Can't do it can ya! Now open the cowl flaps. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My son uses a keyboard on his PS2 now. Also there is a nice controller out for Ace combat. Very nice force feedback Steering wheels for games like GT. Also a few years ago X-box came out with a mech game with one huge awsome looking controller with switches and buttons all over it (even one for the windshield wipers). One reviewer said it a controller that make a PC gamers jealous. So controllers and keyboard is becoming less of a problem specially since you can buy a keyboard cheaper than a PS2 controller.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


THERE IS HOPE HOWEVER!

If developers who care about detailed flight sims (:cough: Oleg and 1C Maddox Games :cough: ) would do business directly to the consumer and bypass software publishers entirely then the shackles of publisher mismanagement would be cast away!

Imagine if Oleg sold this whole series over the Internet by allowing people to download the whole thing instead of buying it at a store. Ubisoft would not be needed at all. Now I realize that all the 56k people out there would be in a bind but I am sure some smart person could figure out something for them.

Dare to dream, dare to dream. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A small Developer called Stardock agrees with this. In Galactic Civilization they claimed they made more profit with the $20 GC expansion bought directly from them than the game itself.

RogueSnake79
02-03-2005, 10:13 AM
Consoles don't get infected by viruses and spyware, they work.(as long as you keep the disk clean) Online cheating is'nt a problem.

The only reason I spend more on PC games is
1. The better graphics
2. The games, More graphic war simulations.

Other than war simulations, Consoles games pretty much rule every game genre.

It also seems to me that most computer games target an older audience. While Console games a younger.
More younger ppl play games than older(ppl) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.VVVV

Chuck_Older
02-03-2005, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RogueSnake79:
More younger ppl play games than older. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me?