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View Full Version : A formal request for a revised New Guinea (bump if you support)



chris455
11-12-2004, 09:01 AM
Oleg, we badly need a 2nd New Guinea map

Many people have wondered why very important places like Lae, Salamaua, Hollandia, Wewak, etc. were left out of the New Guinea map where so much of the aerial fighting took place in the South Pacific. These places are located on the Northern coast of Papua New Guinea, and were used by both the Japanese, and later, the allies as they advanced up the coast of New Guinea. They all had airfields that played an important role in the fighting during the early half of the war. This new map should also include Port Moresby. (I am aware that Port Moresby is also in the exisiting map.)

Not having a map that features these bases makes a realistic USAAF or IJAAF campaign difficult if not impossible.

Will it be possible for 1C to provide an additional map of New Guinea (New Guinea map 2) that will have these places?

Thank you Oleg.

J_Weaver
11-12-2004, 09:16 AM
I don't have PF yet, but from what I've read some very important areas have been left out.
Lets just hope they'll come in a patch.

And I just want to say thanks to all the devlopers for this great series!

JG53Frankyboy
11-12-2004, 09:24 AM
Port Morseby and Lae on one map , never . i dodnt think the IL2 engine could handle that.

only if the east-west sectors would be very small.

the actual NG map is good for fighting from July 42 (japanese landings in Buna) , playing the KokodaTrail fight , over the Milne Bay battle to the allied recapture of Buna January 43.

an additional northCoast map from Buna to Lae/Finshhafen would be nice (very personal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).

and at the actual NG map there should be added one ore two bases at Wanigela ( i know, you can set bases now in PF, but given are better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/SuedwestPazifik.jpg

JG53Frankyboy
11-12-2004, 09:32 AM
and im a big fan of the here http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=114;t=001277 suggested "a new Guadalcanal" map - call it "the Slot" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

hell , that would be a nice campaign !

Tater-SW-
11-12-2004, 10:02 AM
That's my drawing. Notice that if you dump the notion that the map rectangle has to be aligned in a particular direction, you can indeed fit port moresby and lae on 1 map.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/SWPA.jpg

tater

chris455
11-12-2004, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
That's my drawing. Notice that if you dump the notion that the map rectangle has to be aligned in a particular direction, you can indeed fit port moresby and lae on 1 map.

tater <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, and as you have shown, it need be no larger than the current map. It's a great idea Tater.

A.K.Davis
11-12-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
That's my drawing. Notice that if you dump the notion that the map rectangle has to be aligned in a particular direction, you can indeed fit port moresby and lae on 1 map. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder if this is possible with the FB engine, or if compass North would end up not being North?

|CoB|_Spectre
11-12-2004, 11:22 AM
Possibly if Tater's red rectangle were oriented longitudinally rather than diagonally, it could still encompass Lae, Salamua and Port Moresby. Any overrun east and west could be handled like it is in maps like Online MT with no pressing need for detail in those directions. I agree, omitting Lae from a map with Port Moresby is like having a Moscow map without Moscow in it. Wait...that's not a very good example..since that's what we've got! Transit times are the biggest problem for the PTO historical distances involved for use in co-op gameplay, but who says you can't airstart within a reasonable distance from the target to lessen flight time? Where there's a will, there's a way...point.

Tater-SW-
11-12-2004, 11:49 AM
Yeah, that is certainly a possibility I neglected. Here's a revised map:

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/SWPA_revised.jpg


tater

Tater-SW-
11-12-2004, 12:04 PM
Another idea I had was simple "fake" map. A full-sized map, that was 99.9999% water.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/fake_map.jpg

The 2 land areas are big enough for an airstrip, primitive port area, and a couple villages. Use a coral colored strip, copied from Palau or Wake for one, and grass for the other. No big huge bases, they look "wrong" most of the time to me. No Marston mat cause it looks wrong for IJ forces. Grass and coral dust only.

Anyway, you could use it as a CV map stand in for misc attacks, all kinds of things.

BTW, there is no reason the land areas couldn't literally be cut-and-pasted from extant maps, complete with airfield, towns, etc.


tater

Blottogg
11-12-2004, 03:02 PM
Tater, you beat me to it. The vertical rectangle for Port Morseby/Lae looks good, as does your version of the Guadalcanal. Now all we need is someone to write the code.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of those who knows how to translate maps into 1's and 0's for the game. I'm lucky if I can read a map, let alone code one. Hopefully the follow-on maps that have been mentioned/hinted at will contain at least some of these.

While we're making requests, a Philippine map would be appreciated too. I'm still woefully ignorant of WWII Pacific history (Vol. II of "The First Team" is inbound), but I'm pretty sure the area around Clark AB up to the Lingayen Gulf saw action during two different time frames of the war. That, and it's a part of the world I've actually flown over (repeatedly.) I could check to see if they got features like Ram's Head, Snoopy's Nose, the Spine and Peanut rendered correctly.

Tater-SW-
11-13-2004, 09:49 AM
May as well post my other map concepts here:

Singapore (not worth it until a better CBI, given the 1 month lifespan of such a map, IMHO)
http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/malaya.jpg

CBI ideas. The 2 northern ones make the most sense since the front up there was back and forth for YEARS, not days or months.
http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/CBI.jpg


tater

Dizz_310th
11-13-2004, 12:24 PM
Agree with Tater...really could use these.

Korolov
11-13-2004, 02:04 PM
Those who think that the size of these new maps need to look again - specifically at Hawaii and Midway maps. Total area for those maps is massive, even if it's mostly water. I think you could fit Henderson field all the way to Rabaul in some of the area that's shown on these maps. And remember, the big things a objects like towns, cities, etc.

Note that Leningrad is 44 grids wide, as is New Guinea, yet New Guinea loads incredibly quicker and better for me. If we just have basic land and forest for the Slot, with bases for Henderson field and Rabaul, I wouldn't doubt we could handle running the map.

Tater-SW-
11-13-2004, 03:02 PM
All my map rectangles are based on the New Guinea map. I assumed that was the limit for a land-heavy map in PF (Ocean maps like Wake, Midway, etc are effectively infinite since you can place objects outside the map in the .mis file).

tater

A.K.Davis
11-13-2004, 03:39 PM
The size and lay-out of the Guadacanal map is most confusing to me. The entire Eastern and Southern halves of the island were effectively unimportant during the campaign. I guess the whole island was included to avoid the problem of land carrying on indefinitely off the map edge, but still, why such a small map in comparison to the area covered by the NG map? You'd think it was chosen for a sim of the ground-campaign rather than the air campaign.

Korolov
11-13-2004, 03:59 PM
I think most of all, the primary goal was for carrier based action, not ground based aircraft action. Otherwise I'd hazard to say we'd have places like Dutch New Guinea, the Slot and the Phillipines and probably a CBI map.

Tater-SW-
11-13-2004, 04:22 PM
If you moved my "better Guadalcanal" map (above) a hair SE, you'd have all of the island on the map avoiding the endless land issue, and it would make far more sense than the "early Guadalcanal" map we have now since we'd get some of the Slot. Even the defenisve missions at Guadalcanal are hobbled by the map coice. A Guadalcanal map that includes more of the slot allows for barge hunts, and attacks on retreating Tokyo Express shipping.

tater

LEXX_Luthor
11-13-2004, 08:36 PM
THANK YOU KOROLOV

A full map from Guadacanal to Lae would load faster and use less memory than Gulf of Finland map.

Tooz_69GIAP
11-14-2004, 08:20 AM
I'm certainly hoping for a good CBI map, and a better New Guinea map would make a lot of sense for constructing campaigns. Lae and Rabaul were the largest concentrations of Japanese air power in the area for a long time, it does seem odd that they have been ommitted from the maps.

MrOblongo
11-14-2004, 09:45 AM
About the existing map of New Guinea... Only Buna (Old and New Strips) were constructed by the Japanesse as far as i know (New Strip was a dummy field), all the others were constructed by the USA in 1943.

Problem is when i make a doggy representing 1942 plane sets (P-400 , P-40, Beaufighter, A-20), the map have a lot of airbases that shouldnt be there. And if the bases are there we must suppose all the map is in hands of the allies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif...so no japanesse to kill (cos they were flying to Rabaul or Northern New Guinea from there).

Anyway, just a little though.
SOME NICE INFO:
Port Moresby Area Airdromes: http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/png_moresby_air.html

Dodobura (Those fields called DB#):
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/png_dobodura.html

Gona:
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/png_gona.html

And Buna:
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/png_buna.html

INFO ABOUT MISSIONS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/60th/today/1942/10-42.html

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF BUNA AREA:
http://www.army.mil/CMH-PG/books/wwii/papuancamp/papcpn-part1.htm

A.K.Davis
11-14-2004, 10:40 AM
or see the research I did here awhile back:

http://www.il2center.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=87

MrOblongo
11-14-2004, 11:44 AM
As i said before , the funny thing is the map we have is 1943+ map (and all the area we got was occupied by Allied Forces by then).

5th Air Force Link:
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/5thaf.htm

*Im actually making a nice Dogfight map representing Late 1942 with real plane set and lots of ground targets.

bweiss
11-16-2004, 09:13 AM
Yeah but ain't it a beta? I mean I'm with ever one else in wanting an accurate map of New Guinea but I guess I sort of figured they would do that when the final patch came out?

Tater-SW-
11-16-2004, 09:35 AM
It seems like it should be easyto create a new map by DELETING stuff. Maybe they could make an early version by just eliminating some of the airfields.

tater

eleanori
11-17-2004, 05:11 PM
Bumping for a better map of PNG.

Smokin256
11-17-2004, 11:12 PM
Bump! I agree, great suggestions!

Dunkelgrun
11-18-2004, 01:32 AM
Bump from me too. Any chance of shifting Jackson and Ward's strips? They're in the wrong place, should be much closer together.

Blue shows map position of road/track and where it could be, red where it is IRL. Position of roads and airfields based on km grid.

http://premium.uploadit.org/igmusapa/wards_jackson.jpg

Also the wharf at Moresby is shown on the wrong side of the peninsular.

I would most like an early 1942 map of Port Moresby area, we can add airfields but not remove them from the map that we have.

Rough operational dates for the Port Moresby strips:

Jan 42.
3-Mile (Kila)-in use
7-Mile (Jackson) -in use

Early 42.
14-Mile (Schwimmer)

Apr 42.
12-Mile (Berry)

Mid 42.
5-Mile (Ward's)
17-Mile (Durand)

Cheers!