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View Full Version : Damage model this intricate. Surely not ???



bogusheadbox
01-12-2006, 06:17 AM
Last night while flying with my squadran <plug> RAF23 <ENDPLUG>, My left engine was hit pretty badly.

I was in an A-20 and wingman commented on how the engine cowling was riddled with holes.

With this in mind i kept an eye on my gauges and an ear out for that horrible whine. And that is where i noticed something strange.

All guages showed that both engines where operating the same except for oil temp?

My left engine's oil tempreture was actually decreasing and stayed a constant and noticable "x" amount of degrees less than the undamaged right engine?

There was no loss of performance. E.g. same revs, pressure etc.

To be honest i didn't notice a difference in the guages before take off and was only prompted to keep track of them after the hits.

So the question is. Is this actually a part of the damage model where by i can only assume all the holes in the armoured cowling allowed for more airflow over the engine and therefore cooler oil temp.

Or

Is this just an anomoly from the game?

Here is another one.

Again last night, another member received quite a few hits and when landing deployed gear.
He didn't notice the "gear damaged" warning pop up on screen (but could have missed it i guess).

however both sets of gear lowered and he made a very smooth touchdown. But as soon as the wheels hit tarmac, one of the gear sheared off sending him crashing down the runway?

We deemed it a good soft landing and he had plenty of time for the gear to lock into place?

Has anyone had this before... as we have not seen this.


Just makes me wonder (if these are both modelled in the DM) at how much detail there really is.

SO should i be impressed, or in one night, did our squadran experience 2 different anomalyies?

WWSensei
01-12-2006, 06:32 AM
I've had both of those things happen flying the Me110 and the He111...I've also had prop pitch control damaged on one engine so it started to runaway and had to be stopped and feathered.

Also have had hydrolics on gear taken out where they dropped on their own or with gear damage on some aircraft been able to lower the gear manually (I know the 109 and Me110 can do this but not sure about other aircraft).

antifreeze
01-12-2006, 11:12 AM
It's probably simpler than you are thinking. For example, perhaps the engine has a damage 'efficiency' or 'power' parameter. The game decided the engine was damaged enough not to run at full power, and due to running at less power it was running cooler.

The damage to the aircraft skin that your wingman saw unfortunately has little relation to the actual damage registered by the DM. As far as I'm aware the only way that cowling affects damage is that it's slightly easier to damage the engine if the cowling is open.

As for the gear breaking off, I think it's entirely possible that this was modelled. Gear damage is quite rare, but there does seem to be several different types of damage modelled.

Waldo.Pepper
01-12-2006, 12:40 PM
I would love it it the tires could be made flat by bullets/damage. That would make carrier landings even more fun.

RAF74_Poker
01-12-2006, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I would love it it the tires could be made flat by bullets/damage. That would make carrier landings even more fun.

Not quite the same, but we had someone lose their wheel one day ... they lowered gear and there was just the strut.
Made for a fun landing - IIRC, he ended up just bellying in, rather than try w/ lowered gear.

VW-IceFire
01-12-2006, 03:08 PM
Sounds possible. The A-20G's damage model regarding engines is quite intricate in my experience.

Consider the possibility that the engine was not running fine and it was infact the guages that were getting "bad data" from a malfunctioning engine.

actionhank1786
01-12-2006, 03:21 PM
Odd that you posted this, because just last night i was flying an Airbase assault in a B-25 (after a failed on in an A-20...apparently with 3 holes in my fuel tanks, i loitered too long and ran out of fuel on the way home) but i got my B-25 and nursed it back home after taking some minor damager to the engines and wings.
I got back and made a pretty smooth landing, i got the gear down, set her down on the rear wheels, lowered the nose gear, and as i hit the breaks...The Left Main gear just ripped off.
I was shocked and laughing so hard at the same time.
I figure they gave me some super brakes, and the airframe just couldn't take it.

SlickStick
01-12-2006, 03:30 PM
I don't have much to add about the oil temp issue, but as Sensei posted, hydraulic failure is modelled in some planes. The Ki-84 comes to mind. Also, as he posted, just use manual keys to lower gear when hydraulics have been damaged.

The other issue of a strut with no wheel, I've seen tail wheels breaking off lately (over the last couple of patches), that never did before. I've broken the tail wheel in the FW-190-A9 and the Spitfire Mk. VIII. On a hard landing or slamming the tail down while trying not to nose over on a fast landing.

At first, I thought it a bug that I would lose rudder steering down the runway, but when I looked closer and remembered back a few minutes, I had bashed the tail wheel off.

This sim is like the Energizer Bunny somewhat. It keeps getting better and better and better....http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also, with this latest patch landing gear stress has been further modelled. You used to be able to "skid" your plane to a stop, like you skidded your bicycle as a youth. Now, if you do that at too high of a speed, you can snap landing gear off.

lronSight
01-12-2006, 05:29 PM
Yeah, I'm not nearly as confident anymore about gunning the throttle and taking off straight from spawn across the grass.

And hydraulic failures on MLG, I can also attest to that after belly landing when I was sure I hit 'gear down'

Bearcat99
01-12-2006, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by bogusheadbox:
SO should i be impressed, or in one night, did our squadran experience 2 different anomalyies?

Well duhhhh.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif why do you think we are all here? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif Seriously though... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

This sim is so layered.... I have never seen that.. and I really cant say.... I guess the telling tale would be if you could duplicate it.. but as I said.. this sim is so layered as to just blow ones mind. I knew when I saw the pencil in the Pe-8 I think it was or wherever it was.. LOL I don't even remember anymore... that this thing was incredible... and that was IL2... It is stuff like that, that is the very reason why so many folks are so enamored with this sim.. even if it is a bug.... that's one heckuva bug wouldnt you say? Very coincidentally on point? Stuff like that is why I say that I will buy any 1C sim sight unseen..... I have seen things that I never saw in a sim before... hydraulic failure, where you have to lower your gear manually.... the shot out tire... in the wheel well... I first saw that on a P-39 in IL2.... I dont know if it is on all te planes.. but on some of them.. if you take a hit in the wing you can see your fuel gauge go down.... or if you set up a mission and set the time to your time.... now go and land and sit there.. come bacl 6 hours later... look at the clock... look at the sky.... I'll be looking out for that little gem.. thanks for the heads up.....

J_Weaver
01-12-2006, 08:44 PM
I once brought a SBD in on a wing and a prayer. I had taken several flak hit in my starbord wing. (well actually all over the plane.) One of the hits was directly in the wheel well. All that was left was a strut and a big hole in the wing. I made a pretty good landing considering the plane was wanting to roll to inverted.

I've also had the missing and not locked gear on various other planes.

markiz26
01-13-2006, 01:40 AM
Also when one of your engines is hit, or too hot, you can turn it off and continue flying towards the target or nurse the plane back to base.
Just the other night I was flying a P-38 (1943) with the right engine smoking, I had to keep my speed up to keep the fire down and I succeed, but as soon as I landed, the fire engulfed the engine and I had to abandone the ship. I flew for solid 10 minutes fighting the fire by activaing the fire extinguisher and when it was gone by diving in order to increase the speed. Very detailed DM in my opinion.

carguy_
01-13-2006, 04:15 AM
I`m not a pirotech but don`t you think that if the fire was put out and engine shut down the fire shouldn`t come back just like that?


I mean there is a real meaning why people should stop distributing fuel/oil to a damaged/burning engine,right?

markiz26
01-13-2006, 04:42 AM
I ablsolutely agree with you, always thought about this but thats what we have in the game so we just have to find a way to deal with it as it is and at the same time asking Oleg to fix ithttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
01-13-2006, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
or if you set up a mission and set the time to your time.... now go and land and sit there.. come bacl 6 hours later... look at the clock... look at the sky.... I'll be looking out for that little gem.. thanks for the heads up.....

Some of the best co-ops I've played have really well timed flight paths and day/night patters so the sun comes up or sets when you crest a hill or make your way to certain doom, for that extra atmospheric feel.

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-13-2006, 07:30 AM
Dunno about WWII aircraft but I know that alot of nowadays aircraft are constructed in such a way that you can deploy the landing gear without hydraulics. If you open the doors, the struts and wheels fall out on their own and are locked in place without the aid of any hydraulic, pneumatic or electrical assistance. You can accelerate this process by making certain manouvers with your aircraft, to shake the gear out.

A pitty that isn't modelled in Il-2 PF. Maybe an idea for BoB? If it is historically accurate of course.

bogusheadbox
01-13-2006, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by Antifreeze:
It's probably simpler than you are thinking. For example, perhaps the engine has a damage 'efficiency' or 'power' parameter. The game decided the engine was damaged enough not to run at full power, and due to running at less power it was running cooler.

The damage to the aircraft skin that your wingman saw unfortunately has little relation to the actual damage registered by the DM. As far as I'm aware the only way that cowling affects damage is that it's slightly easier to damage the engine if the cowling is open.



I had a think about this. The "hit" engine did not appear to be suffering from a performance loss. The revs were the same. Oil pressure the same. Fuel pressure the same.

All vital guages that show an engine failure in the making were identical to the "unhit" engine.

thats what made it stand out as a brilliant piece of coding or an oddity.

For all intetions purposes, both engines appeared to be opperating exactly the same, all part from a lower oil temp in the left?

Strange

Banger2004
01-13-2006, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by SlickStick:
I don't have much to add about the oil temp issue, but as Sensei posted, hydraulic failure is modelled in some planes. The Ki-84 comes to mind. Also, as he posted, just use manual keys to lower gear when hydraulics have been damaged.

The other issue of a strut with no wheel, I've seen tail wheels breaking off lately (over the last couple of patches), that never did before. I've broken the tail wheel in the FW-190-A9 and the Spitfire Mk. VIII. On a hard landing or slamming the tail down while trying not to nose over on a fast landing.

At first, I thought it a bug that I would lose rudder steering down the runway, but when I looked closer and remembered back a few minutes, I had bashed the tail wheel off.

This sim is like the Energizer Bunny somewhat. It keeps getting better and better and better....http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also, with this latest patch landing gear stress has been further modelled. You used to be able to "skid" your plane to a stop, like you skidded your bicycle as a youth. Now, if you do that at too high of a speed, you can snap landing gear off.

Ahhhh, Slickstick, I see you have indeed seen the light and at last returned to your lovely Spitfire sig http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif