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Eskareon
04-27-2008, 06:26 PM
Assassin's Creed is a perfect example of how consoles ruin titles.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Terrible camera angles
Forced camera angles and loss of intuitive camera control
Erratic combat system
Repetitive, simplistic missions
Poor velocity recognition
Non-intuitive UI
Crashes, lockups, and overall game instability[/list]


This list describes not just the PC version, but the PS3 version as well. Assassin's Creed could have been such a deeper, brilliant game, but it instead became another redundant action RPG. All creativity is lost after the first mission and the rest of the game becomes a repetition of everything you've already done before.

But this is what the console market demands. Simplistic gameplay. Less of a player-driven gameplay and more of a 'come along for the ride.' I don't understand why game developers are targetting the console market before the PC market. The PC market is still larger; the console market is simply overhyped. If you produce a game for the PC first, you ensure that you can stretch your creativity to its limits as the PC is exponentially more capable than the console. Then, after you've developed the game's core system and feature set, you can dumb it down for consoles much more readily and much easier than you can 'upgrade' a console game to a PC game.



RIP, Assassin's Creed, the game that never was.

Crash_Plague
04-27-2008, 06:43 PM
Eskareon, let me simply show you a picture of Dingsi

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z261/pakuorg/fail.jpg

rebel7254
04-27-2008, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Eskareon:
Assassin's Creed is a perfect example of how consoles ruin titles.


But this is what the console market demands. Simplistic gameplay. Less of a player-driven gameplay and more of a 'come along for the ride.' I don't understand why game developers are targetting the console market before the PC market. The PC market is still larger; the console market is simply overhyped. If you produce a game for the PC first, you ensure that you can stretch your creativity to its limits as the PC is exponentially more capable than the console. Then, after you've developed the game's core system and feature set, you can dumb it down for consoles much more readily and much easier than you can 'upgrade' a console game to a PC game.



That's great, now if you'd please go take your PC vs. Console debate somewhere else, we'd appreciate it.

As a married man with a full-time job, I'm grateful for games that aren't so darn complicated that you have to pour dozens of hours into them before can even start actually having fun. I think Assassin's Creed (I have it for PC, play with a gamepad)lives happily in the middle between complex and simple, but that's just my opinion. I'm too busy exploring the cities and admiring the incredible graphics & animations to realize that I'm really just doing the same thing over and over again, objective wise.

Sorry Assassin's Creed didn't meet your PC RPG fanboy standards.

btw, just because you can't figure out the timing of the combat system doesn't make it "erratic".

dacoolstas
04-27-2008, 09:32 PM
very nice post rebel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

dingsi
04-27-2008, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Crash_Plague:
Eskareon, let me simply show you a picture of Dingsi

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z261/pakuorg/fail.jpg


What did I do to deserve this?

nirkon
04-27-2008, 10:15 PM
Terrible camera angles
Forced camera angles and loss of intuitive camera control
Erratic combat system
Repetitive, simplistic missions
Poor velocity recognition
Non-intuitive UI
Crashes, lockups, and overall game instability


I had zero problems with your whole list, except the combat sometimes was not that responsive, other than that, the game is still awesome, no camera angle problems, never locked/froze or crashed for me... velocity recognition is good enough... UI takes getting used to, all good games do.. etc...

Eskareon
04-27-2008, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by rebel7254:
As a married man with a full-time job, I'm grateful for games that aren't so darn complicated that you have to pour dozens of hours into them before can even start actually having fun. I think Assassin's Creed (I have it for PC, play with a gamepad)lives happily in the middle between complex and simple, but that's just my opinion. I'm too busy exploring the cities and admiring the incredible graphics & animations to realize that I'm really just doing the same thing over and over again, objective wise.


Thank you for proving my point. You want to be a deadbeat and a vegetable when playing games. You don't want to put any effort into anything. Too busy "enjoying" the cities to realize you're doing the same recon quests dozens of times? The same cities that use redundant building models and textures? Yeah, I can definitely see how you just get lost in all the ingenuity.

Thank you for posting and solidifying my point. Now please stop trolling my thread.



Originally posted by nirkon:
I had zero problems with your whole list, except the combat sometimes was not that responsive, other than that, the game is still awesome, no camera angle problems, never locked/froze or crashed for me... velocity recognition is good enough... UI takes getting used to, all good games do.. etc...

What version were you playing? Several PS3 versions had multiple crashes. It seems virtually every PC running newer hardware failed abysmally. If you never had any crashes, then bravo, I envy you, as do literally hundreds of others.

But you certainly suffered from bad camera angles, whether you noticed it or not. The game will rotate the camera to awkard places, especially during counters and combo kills. The death animations I can stand, since nothing is happening that's threatening, but for a camera to whimsically twirl upward and hide half your enemies behind a wall is annoying at best. The PC version employs console-friendly camera control instead of PC-friendly. PC gamers don't need the game to control their vision because we have a mouse.

And I don't understand how you can have 'zero problems with [my] whole list' considering you played the same game I did which has redundant textures and quests.

Tela
04-27-2008, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Eskareon:
You want to be a deadbeat and a vegetable when playing games. You don't want to put any effort into anything.

If someone is playing a game simply for enjoyment, and not necessarily for a challenge, it does not make them a "deabeat" or a "vegetable". It means they are playing the game for the reason games exist: for enjoyment.


Too busy "enjoying" the cities to realize you're doing the same recon quests dozens of times? The same cities that use redundant building models and textures?

Not everyone takes a magnifying glass to the cities to notice any redundancy. If they are playing the game to enjoy the game, or are in awe of something, chances are they won't notice anything redundant if it exists.


Now please stop trolling my thread.

It's not trolling if it is on the subject of the thread, and he/she is not simply saying things to get attention. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


But you certainly suffered from bad camera angles, whether you noticed it or not.

I doubt it. If they say they didn't suffer from bad camera angles, they most likely did not suffer from bad camera angles. What might be annoying for one person will not be so annoying for another.



And I don't understand how you can have 'zero problems with [my] whole list' considering you played the same game I did which has redundant textures and quests.

... I repeat my previous points. What might be annoying/redundant/repetetive for one person, might not be so for another. -_-

And, like I said, not everyone pays attention close attention to textures. >_>

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by Tela:
Not everyone takes a magnifying glass to the cities to notice any redundancy. If they are playing the game to enjoy the game, or are in awe of something, chances are they won't notice anything redundant if it exists.

You're suggesting that someone could play through Assassin's Creed and not realize that every mission has you climbing view points, performing leaps of faith from said view points, interrogating the same-faced speakers, pickpocketing, eavesdropping, etc. Over, and over, and over. Please. It's redundant, it's impossible to ignore. I can't imagine what it was like for the console players, since they didn't have the 'extra' four recon modes the PC had. That must have been painful.


It's not trolling if it is on the subject of the thread, and he/she is not simply saying things to get attention. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

He got offended by my post, started using personal attacks, and acted like a hypocritical juvenile (lol I realize I'm doing the same thing over and over again but I don't realize it lol).


I doubt it. If they say they didn't suffer from bad camera angles, they most likely did not suffer from bad camera angles. What might be annoying for one person will not be so annoying for another.

I think you're misunderstanding the use of the word suffer. It's like saying that Ferraris suffer from bad gas mileage. A Ferrari owner might not care, but the statement is still valid. Assassin's Creed has bad camera angles, period.

caswallawn_2k7
04-28-2008, 06:12 AM
@esk: one question for you. name 10 pc only games that arnt repetative? as by your theory pc only games shouldnt have any of these port problems.

FuuKuy
04-28-2008, 06:37 AM
The problem is not about the PC version... is about the game itself. For consoles and PC.....


The game is not the greatest game that many people though.
Is a good game (7.5/10 on consoles, and 8/10 on PC) but no more.

Shijimmy1987
04-28-2008, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Eskareon:
You're suggesting that someone could play through Assassin's Creed and not realize that every mission has you climbing view points, performing leaps of faith from said view points, interrogating the same-faced speakers, pickpocketing, eavesdropping, etc. Over, and over, and over. Please. It's redundant, it's impossible to ignore. I can't imagine what it was like for the console players, since they didn't have the 'extra' four recon modes the PC had. That must have been painful.

Wait... did you by any chance rush through the game? Because I found everything to be in perfect balance.



He got offended by my post, started using personal attacks, and acted like a hypocritical juvenile (lol I realize I'm doing the same thing over and over again but I don't realize it lol).

What? He was using personal attacks? Where? He made a point. His point. Like you made yours. Now stop trolling these forums?


I think you're misunderstanding the use of the word suffer. It's like saying that Ferraris suffer from bad gas mileage. A Ferrari owner might not care, but the statement is still valid. Assassin's Creed has bad camera angles, period.

Nope, it hasn't. Period. Maybe it has, but I didn't experience them. Nor any other problems you mentioned or whatsoever.
And where is the page that states "virtually every PC running newer hardware failed abysmally."? I'd love to read it, as for the people I know (with newer hardware and everything) didn't have any problems at all. Nor did a lot of forum users.


And I don't understand how you can have 'zero problems with [my] whole list' considering you played the same game I did which has redundant textures and quests.

Let's turn this the other way around, sticking with your way of argumentation. I don't understand how you can have so many problems with that list, considering you played a retail version, originally bought at a retailer, like I did.

rebel7254
04-28-2008, 07:02 AM
Thank you for posting and solidifying my point. Now please stop trolling my thread.

You think I'm trolling? Some might argue that you are trolling by posting yet another "Assassin's Creed sucks" thread in this forum, with all the exact same things you haters have been whining about over and over again.

Trust me, we're all sick and tired of hearing the same old **** many times over. It's kind of ironic, because you haters are guilty of doing precisely the same thing that you hate the game so much for. Threads like this one posted here have no redeeming value whatsoever, and serve only to incite argument and division.

I have an idea for a sticky: "What do you dislike or hate about Assassin's Creed?" That way, the haters have a place to vent all their frustrations, and we can confine it into one thread.

ScytheOfGrim
04-28-2008, 07:46 AM
He got offended by my post, started using personal attacks, and acted like a hypocritical juvenile (lol I realize I'm doing the same thing over and over again but I don't realize it lol).



You're suggesting that someone could play through Assassin's Creed and not realize that every mission has you climbing view points, performing leaps of faith from said view points, interrogating the same-faced speakers, pickpocketing, eavesdropping, etc. Over, and over, and over.


hypocritical juvenile

Either a very bad case of dramatic irony, or bad use of sarcasm...

You said it yourself, and not me.

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Shijimmy1987:
What? He was using personal attacks? Where?

"Sorry Assassin's Creed didn't meet your PC RPG fanboy standards.

btw, just because you can't figure out the timing of the combat system doesn't make it 'erratic'."

Direct insults. Please don't quote-train this further, it's not debatable.


Nope, it hasn't. Period. Maybe it has, but I didn't experience them.

It doesn't, but it might? The reason you aren't unwavering in your assertion is because you know that camera problems exist. I find it impossibly hard to believe that you can play through the entire game and never once have to manually re-orient the camera. And not minor adjustments, but a complete change of vantage. If you don't think it ever happened to you, play through the game again. It happens.


the people I know (with newer hardware and everything) didn't have any problems at all. Nor did a lot of forum users.

O RLY?

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/6571038256

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4721051016/m/5191065806

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4951053316

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4721051016/m/3881026806

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4281075456

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2981087456

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/5101083556

And those are just on the first page of these forums.


Originally posted by ScytheOfGrim:
Either a very bad case of dramatic irony, or bad use of sarcasm...

Uh, okay? What you quoted from me had neither juvenile antics nor personal attacks. Tela was indeed insinuating that someone could play through Assassin's Creed and not realize the blatant redundancies.

Edit: Unless you are trying to say that I used personal attacks by calling him a hypocritical juvenile. Please.

Why are you even posting? Shoo troll, shoo.

Shijimmy1987
04-28-2008, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Eskareon:
O RLY?

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/6571038256

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4721051016/m/5191065806

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4951053316

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4721051016/m/3881026806

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4281075456

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2981087456

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/5101083556

And those are just on the first page of these forums.


First link is a patch topic, most of those posts concern improvements. Most of the people posting in there don't have problems with the game, they're just asking for optimisation.

The second, third and fourth take me to some chitchat over a ps3, as where I spoke of pc users.

The fifth and sixth have been solved by driver updating and the like (user errors if you ask me) and the seventh is about someone's set-up of his rig, overheating/overclocking/whatever he's doing wrong.

You're telling me the game causes problems with "virtually every PC running newer hardware". Now let me see the abundance of posts on where the game causes it.

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Shijimmy1987:
You're telling me the game causes problems with "virtually every PC running newer hardware".

I said "it seems" because I would never make such sweeping hyperbole. The next time you walk outside during the summer and you say, "Man, it's like a thousand degrees out here," I'll be sure to ask you for evidence supporting that statement.

Regardless, the threads I posted already show that a huge percentage of the PC market - and other console markets - suffer from a myriad of problems with the game. I don't have to find literally thousands of unique posters online to make such an assertion as forums represent the community as a totality; just as you only poll a small sample as representative of an entire population, the forums need only a small real amount of feedback to be indicative of a much larger, more widespread problem.

Here's a simple google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=assassin%27s+creed+pc+crash

A few scattered players stating they didn't have much problem, and an overwhelming number of links leading to players suffering from a variety of stability issues with the pc version. That large of a response is unquestionably indicative of a much larger problem.

FYTJ
04-28-2008, 11:40 AM
I have some small questions:
Why do some people bother registering on a messageboard of a game they didn't like at all and why do almost ALL the posts of those people consist of "it's repetitive", "camera's ****"? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif I mean what really surprises me is that they really visit the messageboard regularly just to keep on nitpicking the game. If I don't like a game, I don't bother making an account on the official site of that game and coming back every day to repeat the same nonsense about how I am right and people with opinions different than mine are just lying cause I am right. Do those people not have any games they like? Or has nitpicking just become cool? I mean, as I have already said before: IT-WON'T-CHANGE-ANYTHING! The game is released; take it or leave it.
It is okay to not like a game, really, that's your opinion. Now calling me a liar or telling me to "stop trolling your thread" because I don't agree with you is just childish and proves that you don't have any arguments that apply to EVERY Assassin's Creed player. According to your logic, if I don't like chocolate but you do then you are just lying cause since I don't like chocolate, NOBODY can possibly like it. In German, they say that "you only see the tip of your nose" for people like that. But you know what? There's a whole world around you, not just your nose. Have a look at it, it'll teach you a lot.
Now if you want to tell us you didn't like the game, find an existing topic about it and tell us that you think the game's not good. That way, we will be able to tell you that we think it is good but that's just our opinion and we'll have a nice, civilized conversation. But telling us we are liars and that we're trolling your thread cause we don't agree with you is just silly and, let's face it, no good at all.

Achillles102
04-28-2008, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by FYTJ:
I have some small questions:
Why do some people bother registering on a messageboard of a game they didn't like at all and why do almost ALL the posts of those people consist of "it's repetitive", "camera's ****"?

aaah the mysteries of life ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
and btw I totally agree !

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by FYTJ:
Why do some people bother registering on a messageboard of a game they didn't like at all....

To provide the developers with feedback and help them avoid making the same blunders when they develop Assassin's Creed 2.

rebel7254
04-28-2008, 12:19 PM
Eskareon, even if Ubisoft fixed all the technical issues on your list, you'd still be unhappy with it because of the "repetitive" nature of the game itself. We all know that is simply the way the game was designed, and it won't be changed. It is what it is.

You say the combat is erratic, but make no errot to define how it's erratic. That's what lead me to believe that you just couldn't figure out the timing of the counters & dodges, because there's really nothing else about the combat that could even be potentially erratic. Perhaps you can clear that up for us.


Now if you want to tell us you didn't like the game, find an existing topic about it and tell us that you think the game's not good.

That's precisely why we need a sticky for the haters, and mods to enforce it. Then they cant have AC hatefests to their hearts' content, but we all know that they wouldn't stick around very long because it's no fun if they can't annoy and argue with the people who actually like the game.

But, unfortunately, we will continue to endure the annoyance of the haters beating a dead horse over and over again until a sticky is created & enforced.

FYTJ
04-28-2008, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Eskareon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
Why do some people bother registering on a messageboard of a game they didn't like at all....

To provide the developers with feedback and help them avoid making the same blunders when they develop Assassin's Creed 2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that is why you should post in an Assassin's Creed 2 thread instead of starting a new one. Don't get me wrong: it's just that regular members of the forum are tired of 30 new topics every week about exactly the same subject. You feel different about your thread but to us it is just "another I hate AC"-thread. We are just tired of repeating and stating our point again and again especially when some people behave like idiots("the angry shooter people"). What does this lead to? Arguments and flaming.
You, at least, admit that it is to give feedback for AC2 which is already a great thing. If you'd been here for a month or two you'd be surprised by the number of people just complaining for the sake of complaining... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
But since it is feedback for AC2 you're giving, you wouldn't have to argue with a lot of members in the first place by posting in an existing topic.

BTOG46
04-28-2008, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Eskareon:

Here's a simple google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=assassin%27s+creed+pc+crash

A few scattered players stating they didn't have much problem, and an overwhelming number of links leading to players suffering from a variety of stability issues with the pc version. That large of a response is unquestionably indicative of a much larger problem.

That simple google search shows up a lot of people having problems with the pirate version, 2 of the links on that page are for well known torrent sites, and on the other links, judging by the errors people are getting, they're either overclocking their setup, or they have other problems that need resolving, you should see how many posts there are in the help forum here, from people whose computer is in need of serious updating, sometimes hardware, sometimes software.
Some of those with problems have been helped and are now running the game happily, others seem unable or unwilling to try solutions, in fact, getting some of them to post even a simple dxdiag is harder than fixing their problem. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by BTOG46:
That simple google search shows up a lot of people having problems with the pirate version, 2 of the links on that page are for well known torrent sites, and on the other links, judging by the errors people are getting, they're either overclocking their setup, or they have other problems that need resolving, you should see how many posts there are in the help forum here, from people whose computer is in need of serious updating, sometimes hardware, sometimes software.
Some of those with problems have been helped and are now running the game happily, others seem unable or unwilling to try solutions, in fact, getting some of them to post even a simple dxdiag is harder than fixing their problem. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Pirated versions of games are almost always just as stable as 'retail' copies. The hardest obstacle for the ripping team to overcome is security checks; i.e., running without a CD, not having to authenticate after installation, etc. The rest of the rip job is easy. I would daresay that it's telling for rippers to say, "I've got Assassin's Creed WITHOUT crashes!" That's not because they don't know what they are doing, it's because they had to both rip and mend the game to keep it stable.

For example, one user discovered that Assassin's Creed was trying to ping a Ubisoft studio server in Ontario every 75 seconds. Periodically, the ping would be disrupted and his entire game would crash. Guess what he, and others like myself, had to do to fix the periodic crashes? Enable Windows Firewall and tell it to block Assassin's Creed. Now that's just silly.

Now, I'll admit some of the responses were from players who didn't know the first thing about hardware compatibility and stability, but most of the problems were from players whose rigs were just fine. Nothing was inherently wrong with their setup, except that Assassin's Creed was uniquely unstable on it. Other games don't completely wig out like that unless the hardware is generations old.

Anyways, I'm rambling now, but realize that Assassin's Creed has a plethora of problems and 'how-to-fix's that other games, even ports, simply don't have. The developers have even recognized the inherent problems with the PC version and thusly promised a stability patch.

BTOG46
04-28-2008, 03:39 PM
The early English version that was first on the torrents at the end of February, was anything but stable.
The forums were inundated with people saying their game crashed at Jerusalem.
As for ripping and mending the game, are you saying that all those who can play a legal version without problems are mistaken? and that only pirate versions are crash free?
and patches, games get patches, it's a fact of modern PC gaming, publishers releasing patches is something that's almost a certainty these days.

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by BTOG46:
and that only pirate versions are crash free?

Not at all. If you read around, you'll find that some of the cracked versions of implemented their own workarounds to fix common problems, and these workarounds are sometimes the same things the rest of the community uses to fix the problems.

The Jerusalem crash is not isolated to ripped versions as well.


and patches, games get patches, it's a fact of modern PC gaming, publishers releasing patches is something that's almost a certainty these days.

Of course, patches are expected, but the first patch a game receives should not be a stability patch like what Assassin's Creed needs. These things should have been recognized and fixed during the four-month delay the game had as it was 'ported' to the PC.

Another good one - how about quitting the game? We've all seen the videos. How can the developers have possibly not recognized the problem? One must question how much they actually playtested their own game before releasing the PC port if something as blatantly obvious as being unable to quit the game made it to retail (yes, I know, you can quit the game. Hyperbole.).

Overall, it is clear that the PC port of Assassin's Creed was a rush, botched job. The developers could have used their arbitrarily enforced release delay months to fix a number of problems with the game, but they didn't. That speaks for itself.

And, relating back to my original post, by focusing on the console market first - and by clearly rushing the title to store shelves - the developers truncated the game's creative potential. Focus on PCs first, expand the game to the limits of your resources, and then cut it down to work on consoles second.

BTOG46
04-28-2008, 04:16 PM
The only problem with focusing on the PC market first, is these days, most Publishers are going to go where the money is, and that means consoles, so they get the priority.
Ubi only seem to aim solely at the PC for game types that don't normally get released on consoles.
As a PC gamer, I'll admit this does annoy me, but it's heading down the road of a game ported from the console version, or no game at all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 05:13 PM
Another good example is the Rainbow Six series. Amazing PC series. Then they released Vegas and the community was like, "wtf?" One of the developers admitted that Vegas, and future Rainbow Six series, will follow a more mass-friendly console-style gameplay because they want to appeal to the 'whole' market. That's depressing. They willingly sacrifice gameplay and ingenuity and water down their game 'for the masses.'

Ironically, the PC market is still larger than any single console market. The console market in sum is large, but it is divided. The PC market is equally monstrous, yet united (lawl @ Mac and Linux). Ah well. PC games will always be superior, but I will have to learn not to get high hopes until I see the game for myself.

ScytheOfGrim
04-28-2008, 08:58 PM
Uh, okay? What you quoted from me had neither juvenile antics nor personal attacks. Tela was indeed insinuating that someone could play through Assassin's Creed and not realize the blatant redundancies.
As you did within your own post.
You would have not realized it had it not annoyed you to such an extent, but if you had continued to enjoy it, you would not have noticed.

(lol I realize I'm doing the same thing over and over again but I don't realize it lol).



Edit: Unless you are trying to say that I used personal attacks by calling him a hypocritical juvenile. Please.

And you typed next:


Why are you even posting? Shoo troll, shoo.

And you typed earlier:

hypocritical juvenile

Ignorant and arrogant... and being hypocritical is not helping you whatsoever either...

dacoolstas
04-28-2008, 09:00 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif sythe man, you really got him that time!

Eskareon
04-28-2008, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by ScytheOfGrim:
Ignorant and arrogant... and being hypocritical is not helping you whatsoever either...

You aren't actually making an argument, you're just quoting me and saying, "see? See what you did there?"

Again, please, stop trolling my thread.

FYTJ
04-29-2008, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by Eskareon:
Another good example is the Rainbow Six series. Amazing PC series. Then they released Vegas and the community was like, "wtf?" One of the developers admitted that Vegas, and future Rainbow Six series, will follow a more mass-friendly console-style gameplay because they want to appeal to the 'whole' market. That's depressing. They willingly sacrifice gameplay and ingenuity and water down their game 'for the masses.'

Ironically, the PC market is still larger than any single console market. The console market in sum is large, but it is divided. The PC market is equally monstrous, yet united (lawl @ Mac and Linux). Ah well. PC games will always be superior, but I will have to learn not to get high hopes until I see the game for myself.
You're not making an argument here either. These are the Assassin's Creed forums and the community is not like "wtf". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
And how can you talk about "erratic combat system" in AC and then complain about games "being watered down for the masses"? What do you mean by "erratic combat"? That it's too easy?

ScytheOfGrim
04-29-2008, 07:33 AM
Again, please, stop trolling my thread.


personal attacks


hypocritical juvenile


"see? See what you did there?"

I have nothing to say to you because you keep taking the words out of my tongue and proving yourself wrong.

That is argument enough.

And I, in your most highly respected opinion, am merely trolling "your" thread; meanwhile, you are trolling a whole forum by making this thread.

And this thread is not "yours", this thread is the property of the community, and that is the reason that people are allowed to post in it, whether you like it or not.

caswallawn_2k7
04-29-2008, 07:55 AM
I dont get why he complains about "game companys making games for the masses" does he realy want a game firm to go up to every1 and make them each their own game? If they genralise the game more people will play it, more people will like it and the company will make money so they can make future games. The simple fact is you cant please all of the people all of the time and if you think otherwise you are very mistaken. hundreds of thousands of people have bought this game then on the forum there is probly not even a hundreth of them people complained. hell if you look at it that way the forum may look full of complains but what percent of the actual sales is it? my gues would be single didgits.

rebel7254
04-29-2008, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by FYTJ:
games "being watered down for the masses"? What do you mean by "erratic combat"? That it's too easy?
---------------------------------------------


erratic: having no certain or definite course; wandering; not fixed: erratic winds.

This must be the definition he is referring to, as it is the only definition of erratic that could make any sense at all in this discussion. Strange he complains about the game being too simple and repetitive, but apparently wants a fixed and completely predictable combat system. He either realizes this irony, and thus ignores our questions about what he means by saying the combat is "erratic", or he is making up his own definition for the word.

Eskareon
04-29-2008, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by rebel7254:
He either realizes this irony, and thus ignores our questions about what he means by saying the combat is "erratic", or he is making up his own definition for the word.

Or I have a job and other daily priorities.

Don't use dictionary.com's definitions. Try the A.H.D.:

"2. Lacking consistency, regularity, or uniformity: an erratic heartbeat."

The combat feels mostly solid. Keyword: mostly. Far too many times counters are disregarded, perfectly timed attacks either miss or are instantly parried by guards who are still recoiling from an attack. Granted, the player performs miraculous blocks as well, but the combat system feels like all attacks are subject to a dice-roll. Actually, if attacks weren't randomized (read: based on dice-roll), then I would be thoroughly surprised.

Also, I would counter a guard/templar, kick him away, then rush up to him while he was on the ground and spam the hidden blade to no avail. No instant kill. My guy would just retract the blade. Then I tried targeting the guard on the ground and re-entering combat, nothing. Then I tried staying in combat and walking over to the guard, nothing. But, of course, it would work the other 90% of the time.

Erratic. Because on some guards, it seems as if combos and counters are guaranteed. On others, it seems random. I've had too many examples to list here.

rebel7254
04-29-2008, 09:30 PM
Uh, the definitions are pretty much the same. I guess we could argue semantics all day (like how "consistent" and "fixed" are synonyms), but I digress.

And please don't give us the nonsense about how you don't have time to answer our questions about your opinion of the combat system because you're such a busy person with real life (obviously implying that the rest of us aren't). You've made plenty of other posts in this thread between the first time you were asked about it and now. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is getting tired of your condescending tone.

Back to the subject at hand, what makes you so sure that you have "perfect timing" on the counters? Did you stop to think that the timing for the counter actually depends on the type of attack that the guard is doing? Or perhaps it's possible that they purposely made it so that the counter doesn't work EVERY SINGLE time. After all, wouldn't that just make the game more repetitive? You should be happy that the combat system isn't totally consistent and uniform like you believe the rest of the gameplay is.

You have a point that the combat system is somewhat erratic; otherwise, it would have to be 100% predictable. However, I (and others) would have to disagree that it's erratic to the point where it detracts from the gameplay.

alinktothe_past
04-30-2008, 09:43 PM
If you care about this game so much, play it on a console.

I'm happy I don't play games on PC's anymore, I hate having my hardware become obsolete every month, and having crappy ports of games that were good on consoles.

FYI I had no camera problems at ALL on my 360. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

jeremyofmany
04-30-2008, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Eskareon:
Assassin's Creed is a perfect example of how consoles ruin titles.

How consoles ruin titles? That's the same as saying computers ruin titles if the game is designed for PCs and ported to one or more consoles.


Originally posted by Eskareon:
[LIST]Terrible camera angles
Forced camera angles and loss of intuitive camera control

I had no problem with the camera angles. "Forced"? You've some "preset" angles but you also have the ability to change the angle with your mouse. That's not "loss of intuitive camera control".


Originally posted by Eskareon:
Erratic combat system
You've got timing of the move, dodge, block, defense break, throwing knives, short blade, long blade and bare hands. You've also got anywhere from 2 to 15 people on you at once.
There's nothing erratic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/erratic) about any of the above.


Originally posted by Eskareon:
Repetitive, simplistic missions
This I agree with. Nonetheless, after realizing that this is how the game is and this I cannot change, I accepted this and enjoyed saving citizens, helping fellow assassin's, etc.


Originally posted by Eskareon:
Poor velocity recognition
Some of my favorite games are the Half-Life series. Not all games can have the perfected ragdoll physics of the Source Engine, but I have no complaints about being able to climb veritically to the top of a tall tower, overlook a fully rendered city and jump into a haystack with visual effects along the way.


Originally posted by Eskareon:
Non-intuitive UI
You mean the map, the weapons selector, health meter, etc? You must be used to particular games thus have difficulty adjusting to something new. I had no problems at all with any of the interface features. You can even customize them in the Options.


Originally posted by Eskareon:
Crashes, lockups, and overall game instability

Nothing is perfect. This is why developers release patches. Why don't you create your own game for PC, PS3 and XBox360? Maybe you singlehandedly will be successful in perfecting it on the first version.


Originally posted by Eskareon:
Assassin's Creed could have been such a deeper, brilliant game, but it instead became another redundant action RPG.
It has much depth in regards to the story behind what will eventually become a trilogy.


Originally posted by Eskareon:All creativity is lost after the first mission and the rest of the game becomes a repetition of everything you've already done before.
I agree with the repetition, but disagree with the loss of creativity.
The entire land/city is fully rendered, the ability to climb anything that can be grabbed/stepped on, the interaction with the citizens, the detail and accuracy put into the game are all amazing.

1. You have high standards and expectations.
2. You do not know how to enjoy what you have.
3. You see the fault in something before you see its gift.
4. You are very unappreciative.