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View Full Version : Was CFS2 pro Japanese and is PF anti?



Jieitai_Tsunami
10-14-2004, 04:09 AM
I used to play CFS2 before I got the first version of IL2 and never once flew an allied plane and hardly ever flew allied AC. I've noticed that almost every video and alot of posts concentrate more on the allied side. I wonder how many people will fly Japanese planes once the game is released and if so will it be more difficult because the game is aimed more towards the allied side?

TotenTanzen
10-14-2004, 04:25 AM
Play all sides now in FB, don't see why I wouldn't do the same in PF.

BSS_Goat
10-14-2004, 05:14 AM
Probably a anti-Japanese conspiracy. I wouldnt buy it and support this blatant Allied propaganda. We all know the Japanese would have won if the Allies wouldnt have cheated.

Feathered_IV
10-14-2004, 05:25 AM
IJN for me! I am a bit puzzled about the seeming lack of enthusiasm for Japanese aircraft (and a certain disdain from some in comparing IJ to Allied equipment that I havent seen in Luft vs Allied comments).
So little information on IJ stuff has found its way to the west that many probably don't realise just how much there is to interest those with a passion for aviation history.

I don't recall much bias in CFS2. I think they may have been cast as the underdogs though.

609IAP_Recon
10-14-2004, 05:53 AM
oh boy, here we go again...

Gunner_361st
10-14-2004, 06:07 AM
I'll fly anything in Pacific Fighters that can get off the ground. On any side. I bet it'll be fun. I hope for the players on the Japanese side that there aren't too many smart Allied pilots using boom and zoom tactics because... Even A6M5a's online against P-40 M's and E's typically have trouble because most people know now how to fight the Zero effectively; something that did not exist at the beginning of the real World War II for the Allies.

ploughman
10-14-2004, 06:07 AM
? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif ?

WOLFMondo
10-14-2004, 06:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
I used to play CFS2 before I got the first version of IL2 and never once flew an allied plane and hardly ever flew allied AC. I've noticed that almost every video and alot of posts concentrate more on the allied side. I wonder how many people will fly Japanese planes once the game is released and if so will it be more difficult because the game is aimed more towards the allied side? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not a game, games have balance to make them fair but this is a sim, its aimed at reality, not game balance.

The video's showing allied planes is pure marketing. I think sometimes people read into things far to much or read between the lines and find things there that only they can see.

As for posts, thats down to the poster, not Oleg or anyone else.

Cajun76
10-14-2004, 06:55 AM
If you're talking about the lack of J voices or passion for WWII aviation around here, it's not J culture to be as loud and in-your-face as most of us are used too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Also, in my experience, the Japanese don't generally take public pride in thier role in WWII. Several generations have grown up now without war, and WWII hasn't been as "glamourized"here as it has in the West. I have a J friend who flew FB for a few minutes when he was visiting, and he want's to try it out more when we have time.

I think the plane list is a little weak for IJ forces, but I feel it will fill out in time. Remember, CFS2 had more US (4) planes than J (2 Zeros and the George) planes as well. I also think there's a latent desire by J players to play a sim like PF. I was once part of a J squad when I flew on Ubi. The CO told me that he knew many of his buddies didn't switch to IL2 and were still playing CFS2 because of the J planes. I think we'll see an influx of J players once PF comes out and they become aware of it. There may already be great anticipation, but I'm not in contact with any J simheads over here at the moment. It would be great if there's a big migration, though. I need to dust off my broken Japanese language "skills". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tully__
10-14-2004, 07:13 AM
Judging by the "Pacific" servers in FB/AEP rooms at HL, there'll be no shortage of pilots for the Japanese aircraft. I fly whichever side has the GA targets when I fly on Warclouds, which means about half of my time in the War_Clouds_PTO server is in Japanese aircraft.

Barkhorn1x
10-14-2004, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
I wonder how many people will fly Japanese planes once the game is released and if so will it be more difficult because the game is aimed more towards the allied side? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh come now, don't read into something and find a conspiracy that doesn't exist. Is there bias in FB. Yea - a capitalist bias to make a buck.

Barkhorn.

weasel75
10-14-2004, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunner_361st:
Even A6M5a's online against P-40 M's and E's typically have trouble because most people know now how to fight the Zero effectively; something that did not exist at the beginning of the real World War II for the Allies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats one of the main-drawbacks in simulation. According to early WWII-reports the pilots often had no clue what aircraft exactly they flew against and they had to test the enemy's aircraft for its strong and weak points.
Many tactics developed over months (or even years) to counter a certain characteristic of the enemy's fighters.

In our sim-world we know exactly what to do when facing a Zero or a FW. No suprise there, we learn from books, not the hard way.

VW-IceFire
10-14-2004, 07:40 AM
Looks like PF has an even balance with regards to history. I'm sure we'll see a few more Japanese aircraft show up on the flyable list and more AI aircraft (like bombers) begin to surface as time goes along.

I really want to fly the George. Thats my favorite JNAF fighter...the Zero I have somewhat mastered for online dogfighting but if someone decides they want to shoot you down...its a tough battle. You can't run http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BfHeFwMe
10-14-2004, 11:22 AM
By your own admission you don't fly allied, that makes you the least qualified to raise any balance issue.

aminx
10-14-2004, 11:29 AM
i have noticed right from the start that there was no japanese presence in the il2 and pf forums and i did bring it out recently during a discussion with friends,further there is no independant PF japanese site set up for them which also is puzzling when you consider that the game is about them as well.There is no lack of historic interest on the subject in japan just look at the modelling world just to give one egsample.
aminx

Lancelot_ecv56
10-14-2004, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Barkhorn1x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
I wonder how many people will fly Japanese planes once the game is released and if so will it be more difficult because the game is aimed more towards the allied side? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh come now, don't read into something and find a conspiracy that doesn't exist. Is there bias in FB. Yea - a capitalist bias to make a buck.

Barkhorn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!!! Quite true! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Old_Canuck
10-14-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
By your own admission you don't fly allied, that makes you the least qualified to raise any balance issue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifWell and succinctly said, Sir.

TC_Stele
10-14-2004, 12:15 PM
Well there is a Japanese fighter on the cover of the box. Anyone walking through the aisles of the stores will see them.

If there truley was a conspiracy to show only the US planes at every moment they would have put the Corsair on the cover with the Cancer Smoking Man from the X-Files in the cockpit.

hernanyork
10-14-2004, 12:47 PM
CFS2 is the more HORRIBLE simulator in the world
So boring that y prefer play chess whit my grandma.............
AND CFS3 is worst, and Microsoft never make a game decent becouse them dont interest the good things , only money ...
chau vieja

WereSnowleopard
10-14-2004, 01:15 PM
That's correct as Barkhorn said "Oh come now, don't read into something and find a conspiracy that doesn't exist. Is there bias in FB. Yea - a capitalist bias to make a buck." as most American don't study much on all kind but seem narrow-mind to certain planes like P-51, B-17, Hellcat, P-40 and other plane like that. Believe me as I really want to fly Ki-43, Ki-61, Ki-44 and Ki-100 but in large percent of people will said "What is that? Is that a Japanese plane?" when I said "Ki-43". Also Had you noticed how people go crazy over Spitfire as demand to be add into Il2. Then other people crazy and demand add Fw-152 into. Again, people demand P-38, P-47N, new Yak, and... Maybe soon as we get PF in our hand, people may getting start crazy on certain Japanese plane that may demand it to be add into. Which plane? who know? Maybe A7M Reppu? Ha.

Cheerful
Snowleopard

Cheerful

DuxCorvan
10-14-2004, 03:02 PM
It's definitively stupid to be so nationalistic and narrow-minded to buy a 40$ game and use only 20$.

You don't like air war, nor aircraft, nor History. You want a puerile revenge by changing virtually History, so you can ease your chauvinistic mind.

Go play BF1942 in god mode. There you will able to play the Axis Rambo dream.

As for me, who am native of a country which was divided by pro-Axis and pro-Allied factions, and did not even was a direct belligerent part in that war, I'll play both sides, and I'll enjoy a lot, because I won't be killing US nor Japanese pilots. I'll be destroying virtual 3D objects to simulate exciting moments of aviation History, and I'll be glad because war was over almost 60 years ago.

It's a game, lad. It's not a political tool. The reason for having so many US things inside are two:

- Money. US customers are more. If you get the Japanese to buy massively PF, then you'll see more and more Japanese stuff in the game.
- US stuff was more varied. Rare birds apart, the different types used regularly by IJN and JAAF were just a few. For example, carrier-based fighters were almost exclusively Zero variants throughout the war.

So, don't start this kind of topic. It just leave a poor -surely unfair- portrait of your maturity.

DuxCorvan
10-14-2004, 03:11 PM
BTW, as I ever note: real Axis pilots such as Galland or Sakai would have never missed the chance of flying a P-51 or a Spitfire...

And the same goes for allied pilots respect of axis planes.

Jieitai_Tsunami
10-14-2004, 04:16 PM
I guess the game is more marketed towards the US. This is the US forum too.. Wonder what the Germans are saying about the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. I'm just sad because I love Japanese aircraft but all the videos and media I get are mostly corsairs shooting down Zeros and things like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

BTW, Hyperlobby does not allow Japanese players to join. I had my computer set to Japanese and it kept kicking me out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

I'm not saying that the dev team will under-model the Japanese ac and over model the US but I am surprised so many are flying US. In CFS2 I hardly ever met people flying US in dogfights because they had such a disadvantage. I'm looking forwards to flying against organised US squads and I hope other European type squads too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Just hope I am not alown..

nearmiss
10-14-2004, 04:46 PM
Flying the ZONE with CFS2 I always flew Japanese aircraft... they had the best speed, turn and fire power.

The war is over, if anyone doesn't think so...go to Hawaii on vacation.

Snootles
10-14-2004, 04:56 PM
I'm a bit underwhelmed by the relative lack of Japanese flyables compared to American. I know, of course, that much more will go into PF than the initial release list, and I'm definitely not going to harp about it.

I will probably fly a lot of Japanese planes since their light-weight TnB design philosophy suits me well, and because they are something new and different to me.

WereSnowleopard
10-14-2004, 08:51 PM
Also very sad part is Victory party always destroyed/melted/take-apart loser's weapons. So, Third party modelers have hard time find "enemy" planes in museum condition also blueprints. So we will have our best to collect informations to upload source to right place for third party modelers to collect as we show our strong support and be patient with them and show our cheers to MODs when their new planes add into games. Please Don't said bad thing about new planes that will scare MODs away as they are still learning and improve their skill as it will hard to get FM correct in simulation, Okay?
Cheer
Snowleopard

TAGERT.
10-14-2004, 09:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
I used to play CFS2 before I got the first version of IL2 and never once flew an allied plane and hardly ever flew allied AC. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I cant speak on your illusions of PF being pro or anti.. But one thing is CLEAR from your statement above.. YOU ARE ANTI-ALLIED

Giganoni
10-15-2004, 01:40 AM
Hehehe, if we get the Shinano, where is our Reppu? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hehe, anyway those silly troops. Why didn't they have the foresight to know a Russian company would be needing info on many Japanese A/C 60 years later to sell a game in a computer the size of a suitcase or notebook to nerdy kids and middle aged men who ignore their wives in favor of a, joystick? I mean really! Its a no brainer! Nooooo, they all had to burn most of the planes! Sure, I love a good bonfire party too, but not when your burning Ki-44s!

You know what. I think those troops KNEW that PF was coming out in 60 years and they were biased towards Alled aircraft. Yeah, thats why the burned most of the Japanese aircraft.

Its all so simple now, now if only I can get my time traveling machine to work, go to Kashiwa in 1944, sneak onto the airfield of the 70th Hiko Sentai take cockpit shots of the Ki-44 with color then come back to present time. Hmm, of course I'm going to have to get around that whole, being an American thing, if I'm spotted.


(Oh and before some throws a fit and says "there was no Reppu on the Shinano" I'm only thinking along the lines that, if the Japanese campaign can use the Shinano (it might be just an allied target in game), then things must be going okay for Japan (or better than in history) and so a Reppu wouldn't be entirely unconcievable) However, real combat planes first! I know the mantra).

sukebeboy
10-15-2004, 01:45 AM
As a Japanese person, I'm very excited to fly some of the Japanese aircraft. I suspect that most people here don't know, but there was a huge modding community for CFS2 here in Japan which focused on all aspects of Japan's involement in the war, starting in Manchuria. I got turned off as time went on and they became more and more ridiculous. We still have a small but very vocal ultra right wing group of nationalists (they're the ones who lobby to have anything suggesting Japan was anything but a victim of WWII removed from high school textbooks. The mayor of Tokyo is one such person).

I suspect there will be a lot of interest in this title if Ubisoft takes the time to promote it here in Japan. Haven't heard a word about it in the Japanese press so far though.

arzaal
10-15-2004, 03:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
I've noticed that almost every video and alot of posts concentrate more on the allied side. I wonder how many people will fly Japanese planes once the game is released and if so will it be more difficult because the game is aimed more towards the allied side? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well just have a look at the boxes:
- CFS2: a Corsair
- PF: a Zero, with a US plane in flame in the background.
This does not sound anti-japanese to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

LEXX_Luthor
10-15-2004, 06:05 AM
sukebeboy:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As a Japanese person, I'm very excited to fly some of the Japanese aircraft. I suspect that most people here don't know, but there was a huge modding community for CFS2 here in Japan which focused on all aspects of Japan's involement in the war, starting in Manchuria. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, if FP was over China instead. Ki~27 and I~15 I want most.

Cossack13
10-15-2004, 07:31 AM
I think the interest in the Allied planes over the Pacific doesn't need to be looked into very deeply before one realizes that it's just about a historical interest that translated well into enthusiasm for the game.

There does seem to be a scarcity of Japanese squadrons forming, which is why I'm trying to organize one myself. Hopefully, I'll attact enough pilots who are willing to fly Japanese on at least a part-time basis or we'll see servers full of USN, VMF, and RAF guys fighting each other because there are no Japanese around.

Oh yeah, shameless plug time: www.jaf77.com (http://www.jaf77.com)

Chuck_Older
10-15-2004, 10:19 AM
CFS2, pro Japan, PF, pro Allies....by which of course I can gather that means "pro-US" which of course we all know is bad.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
the war's over

LStarosta
10-15-2004, 02:16 PM
Me? Fly Japanese planes? No thanks. I can make my own paper airplanes.

Snootles
10-15-2004, 05:01 PM
Who needs armour if you're not taking hits? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Not to impugn on armour or anything... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Jieitai_Tsunami
10-15-2004, 06:09 PM
Well if there isn€t much about the Japanese in the game the US are never going to know what we are going to do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif.

BTW what does that picture in your sig mean Snootles? I've been trying to work it out for ages..

http://www1.cts.ne.jp/~tosihiro/bighakkanzuikaku.jpg

TAGERT.
10-15-2004, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
Well if there isn€t much about the Japanese in the game the US are never going to know what we are going to do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would be more worried about what the USA might do in return for what you might do.
http://www.winhelp.dk/hpdesign/ico/abomb.jpg

nearmiss
10-15-2004, 06:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
Well if there isn€t much about the Japanese in the game the US are never going to know what we are going to do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The people in the US are gonna keep buying Toyotas, Hondas, along with everything else from Japan.

The US is a friend to Japan of the highest sort...

That's the sum of it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Snootles
10-15-2004, 06:50 PM
About the sig: It's an anime joke/pun. The character whose picture is shown is named Shinichi Kudo, from Case Closed.

PlimPlam
10-16-2004, 12:21 AM
I'm sure more Japanese planes will be added as soon as the devs can get them out the door. And Im sure there will be plenty of people flying them.

Personaly I'll be in a wildcat, brewster, or corsair mostly but Ill take everything up for a spin now and again.

Im sort of an equal opportunity explosion in that regaurd.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

F19_Orheim
10-16-2004, 03:28 AM
For online play I will of course do as I always do, fly for the side with less pilots, even up the teams. This is really somthing that more need to do, too often when I enter a onlineserver the blue side has a HUGE advantage. In PF it seems that (for what I can tell by the interest in US aircraft) RED side will get the advantage, thus I guess I will fly for the emperor quite a lot. That Betty seems nicehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
However I will stay back on Eastern front a lot I guess, as the absence of new cr@pplanes in PF is quite obvious.

DuxCorvan
10-16-2004, 05:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sukebeboy:
As a Japanese person, I'm very excited to fly some of the Japanese aircraft. I suspect that most people here don't know, but there was a huge modding community for CFS2 here in Japan which focused on all aspects of Japan's involement in the war, starting in Manchuria. I got turned off as time went on and they became more and more ridiculous. We still have a small but very vocal ultra right wing group of nationalists (they're the ones who lobby to have anything suggesting Japan was anything but a victim of WWII removed from high school textbooks. The mayor of Tokyo is one such person).

I suspect there will be a lot of interest in this title if Ubisoft takes the time to promote it here in Japan. Haven't heard a word about it in the Japanese press so far though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, there are people like that in every country of the world. You should know some of the local leaders here in Spain. It looks like everybody invented the gunpowder... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Sukebeboy, I wish that PF began in Manchuria, too. All those planes, Ki-10, A5M, Ki-27... and the Rusian-Chinese stuff will be in yet for FB/AEP users: I-153, I-16...

I hope the number and variety of Japanese aircraft will increase to give a more complete vision of Pacific War. I also hope you was not offended by my previous post, it's only that I can't understand people who buy a game and can't have fun with it. PF should be more bound to Japanese market, it's a very important one, and PF is the perfect product for it.

I guess the inclusion of Zero and Ki-84 in FB/AEP was more or less a probe to test the potential profit of something like PF in Japan.

Feathered_IV
10-16-2004, 05:51 AM
The idea of starting things off in Manchuria would have been cool. When it was announced that all the stuff couldnt fit on 2 cds, I sort of hoped that all the early war stuff could mke the initial release and then all the late war stuff would come in the free/paid add-ons. That way we would get a better sense of history etc.