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View Full Version : Give Jack a little credit



Eat_My_Shortz
07-25-2004, 06:26 AM
Ubi Soft's new Myst IV store page:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Original music by Peter Gabriel...
Drift away on an ambient soundtrack composed by world-renowned artist Peter Gabriel, in collaboration with Jack Wall.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://store.ubi.com/item.jsp?item=008888681632

Come on - we know Jack Wall composed (and implemented) the entire score. We've heard his music, and loved it.
Peter Gabriel did a pop hit for Uru and he's doing another one for Revelation. I've never heard of this guy, but if he does what he did for Uru, it'll be forgettable and won't even fit the Myst world.

Jack Wall seems to like him though, but please
GIVE JACK A LITTLE CREDIT.
"composed by world-renowned artist Peter Gabriel, in collaboration with Jack Wall."
Please!

_______________________________________________
To own POTS. That is the difference between knowing the path... and walking the path.

Eat_My_Shortz
07-25-2004, 06:26 AM
Ubi Soft's new Myst IV store page:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Original music by Peter Gabriel...
Drift away on an ambient soundtrack composed by world-renowned artist Peter Gabriel, in collaboration with Jack Wall.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://store.ubi.com/item.jsp?item=008888681632

Come on - we know Jack Wall composed (and implemented) the entire score. We've heard his music, and loved it.
Peter Gabriel did a pop hit for Uru and he's doing another one for Revelation. I've never heard of this guy, but if he does what he did for Uru, it'll be forgettable and won't even fit the Myst world.

Jack Wall seems to like him though, but please
GIVE JACK A LITTLE CREDIT.
"composed by world-renowned artist Peter Gabriel, in collaboration with Jack Wall."
Please!

_______________________________________________
To own POTS. That is the difference between knowing the path... and walking the path.

Orre88
07-25-2004, 09:54 AM
I'm completly with you EMS, all honor to Jack Wall! (I saw you liked the Revelation main theme, good - it's amazing.)

PS. did you listen to the "haven Music" clip? Very interesting music! Jack Wall's fantasy is gorgeous: Myst music mixed with Eastern European styles sounds very exciting! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Orre88

Behn
07-25-2004, 10:07 AM
Jeez. Somebody should write to Ubisoft to correct this.

I'm pretty positive too, that Jack composed all the music. It's a shame to present it in a way that it seems like Peter Gabriel did everything, with a little help from Jack.

It should be the other way around.

Good eye, EMS.

We were aiming at the moon / We were shooting at the stars / But the kids were just shooting at the buses and cars

Nebodin
07-25-2004, 06:53 PM
At least most of the fans realise the truth of the situation. I do agree it is a bit low playing up the Peter Gabirel contribution - but hey, if it helps market their game...

Khatie_
07-25-2004, 10:58 PM
Well, by posting here you are "writing to Ubisoft" and I've sent an inquiry to marketing about it. Thanks!

I'll let you know.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://uru.ubi.com/us/images/bnr003.gif (http://store.ubi.com/item.jsp?item=008888682028&usitem=008888681090)

Eat_My_Shortz
07-25-2004, 11:10 PM
Yay! My posting actually works! Thanks Kha'tie.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm sure Peter Gabriel is a great artist. Jack Wall has spoken on many occasions about how fun it was to work with him.

And Burn You Up was pretty good! (It was OK in the modern Uru, although I'm a little miffed that a song like that could end up in the Myst-style of Revelation!)
But all I'm saying is... credit where credit's due.

Oh on the Haven theme - yes I have heard it - I must admit I thought it was a little wierd. But Jack has actually said this is NOT the theme to the age Haven, its just called that (???) and he said it will make sense in context. OkAY!

_______________________________________________
To own POTS. That is the difference between knowing the path... and walking the path.

ArienMalfoy
07-27-2004, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eat_My_Shortz:
Peter Gabriel did a pop hit for Uru and he's doing another one for Revelation. I've never heard of this guy, but if he does what he did for Uru, it'll be forgettable and won't even fit the Myst world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously?!!! You've never heard of Peter Gabriel? I bet you've heard his stuff and just don't know it:

In Your Eyes (appeared in Benny and Joon)
I Have the Touch (from Phenomenon)
Big Time
Red Rain
Sledgehammer
Shock the Monkey
Games Without Frontiers

And tons more. He's been around for decades and was also in Genesis many, many years ago (in fact, he co-founded the band, but left in 1975). I actually liked his song from URU and was disappointed that it wasn't on the soundtrack. I do find pop music to be a little out of place in the Myst universe though. I do have to agree with you on that.

But I do agree that Jack Wall should have been given far more credit here. I find his music to be absolutely mesmerizing. It's what allows me to truly immerse myself in the game.

Eat_My_Shortz
07-27-2004, 11:03 PM
I agree fully Arien...

Nope I've never heard of these songs. I am in Australia, so maybe we don't get that much exposure, but also I'm not a big fan of pop music.

My CD collection consists of... Myst III Exile Soundtrack, Lord of the Rings Soundtrack, Warcraft III soundtrack, and several soundtracks I made out of the game files from realMyst and Uru (btw I did put Burn You Up on my version of the Uru soundtrack!).

Hence you can see why I am in support of Jack Wall and not Peter Gabriel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_______________________________________________
To own POTS. That is the difference between knowing the path... and walking the path.

StarScrap
07-28-2004, 02:38 PM
I listened to the Haven song and the Revelation theme song. I think they're great music, but I hope there's also music in there that's...creepy, rather than intense.

Like the music that plays when you enter the rooms of the brothers on Stoneship (other places too, but that's the one that I'm sure about).

________________________________________________

Different does not mean better or worse. It just means NOT THE SAME.

manguymanguy
08-02-2004, 12:36 AM
Yeah, Jack is definitely better. Like someone said: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Myst III was good, but this is alot better.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Though both were composed by Jack, it's true. He must be getting better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

PS... The Haven and the Main Theme songs are really good.

Orre88
08-02-2004, 02:13 AM
Yeah, you're right! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

There is a tiny bit of a soundtrack on mysterium.ch. The 5 second track has been available for just a few weeks. It's just 5 seconds..........but it sounds amazing. Visit www.mysterium.ch, (http://www.mysterium.ch) then scroll down to the topic "(16 July)MYSTerium Revelation Secrets", then click "solution" for the 4:th secret to download the mp3 file. But beware of the high buzz noise in the end.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Orre88

Eat_My_Shortz
09-21-2004, 08:37 AM
Hmm.... there STILL doesn't seem to have been anything done about it.
I hope this isn't going to be on the box - that would be just downright low!

1. Its false advertising. Peter Gabriel DID NOT create the score.
2. Its misleading. What if someone bought this game because they loved Gabriel's music, and it ended up being by this other guy?
3. Its not smart marketing to fans of Myst III. I for one had no idea who Peter Gabriel is. But after playing Myst III, I'd be MUCH more inclined to buy a game because of Jack Wall's music than Peter Gabriel. I think most Myst fans would agree. Also, Jack Wall is a renowned score-writer among Myst fans. Peter Gabriel is renowned for putting a pop song at the end of Uru, among Myst fans.
4. Its not fair to Jack - he deserves to be credited for the soundtrack he created.

_______________________________________________
EMS' Relto (http://www.geocities.com/emsrelto)
29494 on Tapestry

ArienMalfoy
09-21-2004, 10:27 AM
Well, every Myst site I've looked at credits Jack Wall with the score and either barely or doesn't mention Peter Gabriel. Myst fans will likely be looking to the sites for info on the games, so I wouldn't be too worried about the Peter Gabriel thing. That might be a ploy to lure first-time Myst players in, people who might know who Peter is, but probably don't have a clue who Jack is.

And I really don't see too many Myst fans NOT buying the game just because Peter is mentioned on the box. Even if Jack didn't do the score for Revelation at all, true Myst fans will still buy the game. We all bought URU didn't we? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

For MTigerV:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/MYST4CE/
SIGN IT WOOT WOOT!
Le Signer WOOT WOOT!!
Escriba Lo WOOT WOOT!!

StarScrap
09-24-2004, 08:55 AM
It's not myst fans that how they market it on the box matters for. It's people who look at it for the first time when they see the box.

Ze Pedro
09-24-2004, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eat_My_Shortz:
1. Its false advertising. Peter Gabriel DID NOT create the score.
...
4. Its not fair to Jack - he deserves to be credited for the soundtrack he created.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. This is a BIG LIE! It makes me really mad they are not giving credit to such a fine artist. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

IMO, having delay problems with pre-orders is understandable. Not giving credit to an artist is not. Ubi went too far this time.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

ArienMalfoy
09-24-2004, 05:33 PM
I'm wondering why this is such a big issue when almost every bit of information I've seen on the game doesn't even mention Peter Gabriel. The making of videos don't mention him. The making of music one is all about Jack. Amazon.com's website does mention both artists, but doesn't imply that Peter had more to do with the soundtrack than Jack did.

As I said before, I really think this is a marketing ploy to lure new gamers in, people who will probably be more familiar with Peter than with Jack. They already know we Myst fans will buy the game anyway.

Orre88
09-24-2004, 06:26 PM
ArienMalfoy, you said Peter Gabriel isn't mentioned in the making of's. Take a look at the "music" making of again. Genieve Lord talks about him, and we hear a part of the song he wrote for Revelation, in the background.

Like the song very much, but Jack Wall should get the credit for the score. Jack did the entire score except that one song that Peter Gabriel wrote.

ArienMalfoy
09-24-2004, 08:42 PM
Fair enough. I must have missed that part, because the only thing I can remember from it was Jack Wall talking about doing the music.

There was one video I couldn't view. Are there two videos about the music, or did I just completely miss any mention of Peter Gabriel in the one?

I suppose I might have missed it because I can't usually do anything for more than a minute or two without one of my three kids distracting me. That's certainly possible. But I really just don't remember any mention of Peter in it (and yes, I'm too lazy to watch it again; I'll take your word for it if you say it's in there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).

I wonder if this is like movies and TV shows where anyone who had even the slightest input into the project is listed as a producer, even if their involvement was minimal.

Eat_My_Shortz
09-25-2004, 09:57 AM
Hi - hope this convo isn't generating *too* much argument! Sorry if it is.

Arien - yeah it did have Peter in it, before Jack Wall, he sings "Curtains" (which I learnt here (http://www.mysterium.ch/index_e.html) is NOT an original song as promised! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif) - but yes, that video did give Jack due credit. The music from Wall looks fantastic.

Now, you said you couldnt view all 3. Yeah well sometimes they dont come up properly. Go back and try again, I bet you can. They're all great videos.

OK I understand we're trying to lure new players in with Peter Gabriel. But I don't even know if it will work, I mean its not really the sort of music you'd associate with Myst anyway.

I mean if I could exaggerate a bit, what if it had Linkin Park, and I happened to like Linkin Park (I don't actually, its just an example http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) - but just because I liked it wouldnt mean I'd like to see it in a Myst game!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>almost every bit of information I've seen on the game doesn't even mention Peter Gabriel. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, not many of the fansites - they'd know better. But ALL of the official information has it, even Amazon says "Original music created by Peter Gabriel and Jack Wall", naming Gabriel first, when Wall did the entire score.

cathyk
09-25-2004, 10:57 AM
In defence of Peter Gabriel, he is an excellent composer and I enjoyed the piece he did for Uru (oh and being Australian is not excuse for not having heard of him - I'm an Aussie and one of the last CDs I bought before moving from Oz to the UK was Gabriel's Greatest Hits).

I do agree that Ubisoft's marketing is unfair on Jack Wall, and it is misleading for fans of both gentlemen - if Gabriel fans are led to the game expecting a lot of his music, they will be disappointed - but hopefully they'll enjoy the game and get hooked on Myst and Uru like the rest of us. I can speak from experience that fans will track down every single bit of work their hero/heroine does, no matter how small - and doing so opens up new worlds and interests for them.

Please be gentle in your replies - I've been reading the forums for a few weeks now (whilst waiting for Revelation) and this is my post - I haven't even set up an avatar yet.

Cheers!

Ze Pedro
09-25-2004, 11:37 AM
cathyk, welcome to the forums!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

And don't worry, we're always gentle, except when we're mad. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sure, Peter Gabriel is a great artist and he deserves all claps and bows. But not for the music in Myst IV. It's as simple as that. The score was composed by Jack Wall. The music in the game is by Jack Wall. Does it matter that Peter is more famous than Jack? No. The music is still by Jack Wall. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maybe Ubi should be advertising that Revelation was made by Microsoft, since some of the programs they used to make the game were probably made for Windows, and having "made by Microsoft" on the box will probably sell more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LazerFX
09-25-2004, 04:35 PM
Well, I'd never really heard of either Wall or Gabriel. I'm sure the music will be good either way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yeah, I'm a Brit, but I'm not really into modern pop music - I'm more 60's / 70's (The greatest music ever is a split between Pink Floyd's "The Wall" and "Division Bell" and Jeff Wayne's "War of the Worlds".

ArienMalfoy
09-25-2004, 07:58 PM
I certainly hope that no one took any of my posts as argumentative. They weren't meant that way.

As for the reference to new fans not expecting Peter Gabriel's music in a Myst game: if they're new to the series, how would they know what music to expect? That's why I think including Peter (and giving him more billing than he probably deserves) is an attempt to lure in new fans who are not very familiar with the Myst games or Jack Wall.

Do I agree with this ploy? No, I don't. I definitely think Jack deserves top billing here, with a side note that Peter does a song (I can't comment on the "originality" of that song, as I've never heard of it before).

Has anyone actually contacted Ubi to find out why they did this?

Eat_My_Shortz
09-25-2004, 10:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>having "made by Microsoft" on the box will probably sell more. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you sure? Microsoft are rich, but I don't think they have a very large "fanbase" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Arien - no i didnt take your posts as argumentative
In regards to "luring" in new players who like Gabriel - well, it isn't really very honest, is it? THats the point we've been throwing around - Gabriel fans may buy this, and *then* realise that it isn't composed by their hero... and thats just giving Myst games a dodgy impression.

To be frank, I am not very happy with Ubisoft's marketing at all. THey have a great team at Montreal Studios, who have made a brilliant game, and then to have it put in that colourless white box, with dubious statements, to not be told the release date, or even how many DVDs there are. To not be releasing a collectors edition in the US, and to be releasing different versions overseas. And of course, trying every trick they can to get non-fans to buy it, such as saying the soundtrack is composed by Peter Gabriel. Yet they aren't doing any advertising or even making a nice box.
:worried:
And why did they get rid of the worried smiley?

ArienMalfoy
09-26-2004, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eat_My_Shortz:
In regards to "luring" in new players who like Gabriel - well, it isn't really very honest, is it? THats the point we've been throwing around - Gabriel fans may buy this, and *then* realise that it isn't composed by their hero... and thats just giving Myst games a dodgy impression. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't disagree with this. That's why I call this whole thing a "ploy", instead of a "great marketing decision", lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Maybe they thought the confused and sad smileys are enough. I thought one of the sad smileys was the worry smiley for a minute. He kinda looks like he's worrying to me anyway.

Or maybe they just missed him by accident.

Eat_My_Shortz
09-26-2004, 09:54 PM
Yup - I agree. Thankfully the real box (at least the international one) doesnt have any mention of it, and the collectors box (from what French I could understand) did Jack justice!

The worried smiley didn't actually look worried, he looked like he was shaking his head, as if to say "oh this is not good!"
and theres nothing like that!
:worried:

cathyk
09-27-2004, 10:36 AM
Thanks for the welcome, Ze Pedro.

One thing that Cyan has done in its marketing is that the music video on the Myst IV website is primarily about Jack.

Cheers!

Eat_My_Shortz
09-28-2004, 04:38 AM
That's true about the music video. Also, the new "saga" video http://www.mysterium.ch focuses more on Jack Wall.
Remember its not Cyan doing any of this - Ubisoft and Ubisoft Montreal Studios are doing the whole affair.