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View Full Version : how is posible that in the 6 years of the series nobody noticed the bug in thetracers



raaaid
05-21-2007, 06:30 AM
the bug is that the smoke of the tracer appears 200 m behind the bullet

wait before tell me about everyother bullet tracer just shoot at 1/4x time compression and youll see what i mean

Capt.LoneRanger
05-21-2007, 07:22 AM
Right on, raaaid. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif


This F190-bar- and Tempest-wrong cockpit ****, problems with high altitude flightmodelling and overheating or non-overheating aircraft, stupid 50s kill Tigers and German 20mm do less damage than British 20mm debates!

THIS is the real problem of the game and it needs to be fixed in 4.09 or "When a game stop, he start to die" as somebody put it on this forum lately. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

EiZ0N
05-21-2007, 07:34 AM
"When a game stop he start to die" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yes, that was a wonderful thread.

VW-IceFire
05-21-2007, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
the bug is that the smoke of the tracer appears 200 m behind the bullet

wait before tell me about everyother bullet tracer just shoot at 1/4x time compression and youll see what i mean
I just did...and no they don't.

WWSensei
05-21-2007, 08:51 AM
I don't see this effect you are talking about.

Snodrvr
05-21-2007, 08:52 AM
By any chance are you seeing the bullets between the tracer rounds? Remember that not every round is a tracer, I believe a ratio of 4-1 was traditonal for tracers.

T_O_A_D
05-21-2007, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Snodrvr:
By any chance are you seeing the bullets between the tracer rounds? Remember that not every round is a tracer, I believe a ratio of 4-1 was traditonal for tracers.

Exactly, Tried to post just that right off the bat the forum kicked me out and would let me in for a spell.
IIRC standard was every 5th round was a tracer, then later they changed it up several times.

Philipscdrw
05-21-2007, 09:50 AM
If you pause the game and look at the Me-262's exhaust flames, they will appear ~50cm too far back. If you unpause then the flames pop back into the right place. Maybe this same bug is affecting the tracers?

raaaid
05-21-2007, 11:23 AM
im not sure i heard people with the same bug than me so i supposed it happens to everybody maybe its just some videocards

though even at minimum speed is subtle to see

DKoor
05-21-2007, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
im not sure i heard people with the same bug than me so i supposed it happens to everybody maybe its just some videocards

though even at minimum speed is subtle to see IMO I think that Italian BREDA tracers look more weird than others....

VW-IceFire
05-21-2007, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
im not sure i heard people with the same bug than me so i supposed it happens to everybody maybe its just some videocards

though even at minimum speed is subtle to see
Screen shots?

Breeze147
05-21-2007, 12:52 PM
I think the third bolt on the piolt's left on the canopy of the P-47 has not been torqued properly.

ploughman
05-21-2007, 01:02 PM
That's terrible Breeze! Something should be done.

How about this for eeek?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/mctomney/spitfiremkviiclpgraphicglitch.jpg


That's right, giant orange arrows infesting my Spit pit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

K_Freddie
05-21-2007, 01:29 PM
Maybe it's your card..
As these pics tell, smoke is about ~20m behind.. Another thing usually miss-interpreted is the tracer length which should only be a dot. This seems to be a spillover from camera shots which have a short exposure time giving the tracer a streaky image.
http://www.vanjast.com/SH3Pics/Tracer01.jpg
http://www.vanjast.com/SH3Pics/Tracer04.jpg

EiZ0N
05-21-2007, 03:03 PM
I've never really thought about it as it's pretty unimportant, but the tracers and weapons generally do look quite unrealistic (not that I've seen any in real life, so take this with a grain of salt).

Hopefully SOW will have a better system for them.

XyZspineZyX
05-21-2007, 03:09 PM
How about a touch of logic?

If a source of ignition is burning hotly enough, it leaves no visible smoke

On a tracer, the round can be generally assumed to cool slightly after firing. The tracer ignites from contact with air, and as it burns, it's temperature goes down

crucislancer
05-21-2007, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
the bug is that the smoke of the tracer appears 200 m behind the bullet

wait before tell me about everyother bullet tracer just shoot at 1/4x time compression and youll see what i mean

Does it really matter if they are or aren't? I'm not sure if your joking or trolling anymore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

DKoor
05-21-2007, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by EiZ0N:
I've never really thought about it as it's pretty unimportant, but the tracers and weapons generally do look quite unrealistic (not that I've seen any in real life, so take this with a grain of salt).

Hopefully SOW will have a better system for them. B-17 Mighty Eighth 2 has awesome tracers. Better than IL-2 IMO.

BaldieJr
05-21-2007, 05:00 PM
Hey cool I'm bored.

MAX_theHitman
05-21-2007, 05:43 PM
Very interesting read on this thread, perhaps they could sort out all these problems when BoB from Mr.Oleg comes out, if not, it´s oK by me.
I still love this game as it is.
Lets just hope that one day no one will be able to play a flight sim that is SO REAL looking and feel , that when your plane crashes, someone will end up in the hospital witha broken leg. That will defenitly be "very realistic" flight sim. Too real http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif BUT guessing how computers and tecnology is evolving these days, that someone will come up with a very real flight sim as I just mentioned by the year 2010.
BUT I will stick with this simple IL-2 game.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

raaaid
05-22-2007, 04:58 AM
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/tracer.jpg

wheres the smoke of the two bullets close to the center of gunsight?

answer: its about to appear

BlindSpot6
05-23-2007, 01:15 AM
Actually, if you watch a lot of gun camera footage you will be quite impressed with the sims representation of the 20mm. Not only are smoke tracers often visible with the 20 mm but they also create a spiral smoke trail. This is represented in the game really well.

raaaid
05-23-2007, 03:39 AM
i noticed what might be another bug, the spit doesnt shoot both wing cannons simultaneously

i dont think it was really like that because it would cause so much shake in the plane

tigertalon
05-23-2007, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
i noticed what might be another bug, the spit doesnt shoot both wing cannons simultaneously

i dont think it was really like that because it would cause so much shake in the plane

I don't think so. Hispano rate of fire is roughly 10 rounds per second. So, in the worst case time separation between cannons is 0.05s right? I don't think it would cause much shaking, as the recoil has to yaw the 3 ton plane in .05s before being countered with a recoil from the other cannon.

Lurch1962
05-23-2007, 04:54 PM
As Chris Blair alluded to, it's indeed temperature -related. As the tracer gases are emitted, they are initially a hot "vapour", if you will. Upon cooling sufficiently condensates appear, which are visible as smoke particles. It takes a finite time for this cooling to occur, hence the "delay" in smoke's appearance.

--Lurch--

raaaid
05-24-2007, 10:56 AM
plz somebody watch one single shot of tracer at 1/4 speed and tell me is not my imagination

real tracers didnt do that on guncam

so 1000 people read about this and not a single person backs me up?

well the logical conclusion is that it just happens to me, must be my pc

all right ill try it on another pc and when as i expect the tracers are bugged as well plz tell me what a sane person should think?

that everybody is stupid but me?

well im not that pretentious, i think they do it so we cant remember gunnery skills

no wonder i always overlead, the tracers have always been delayed

crucislancer
05-24-2007, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
plz somebody watch one single shot of tracer at 1/4 speed and tell me is not my imagination

real tracers didnt do that on guncam

so 1000 people read about this and not a single person backs me up?

well the logical conclusion is that it just happens to me, must be my pc

all right ill try it on another pc and when as i expect the tracers are bugged as well plz tell me what a sane person should think?

that everybody is stupid but me?

well im not that pretentious, i think they do it so i cant remember my gunnery skills

no wonder i always overlead, the tracers have always been delayed

I don't think you are stupid, I think you are making a mountain out of an ant hill. Who cares if the smoke is too far from the round or not. It's a game. Why make a big deal about it?

raaaid
05-24-2007, 11:17 AM
what i just cant understand is that i seem to have found an easy to check out big bug and of 1000 person absolutly all turn the back on me

whats this about to improve the game or to bring raaaid down

DooDaH2007
05-24-2007, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
what i just cant understand is that i seem to have found an easy to check out big bug and of 1000 person absolutly all turn the back on me

whats this about to improve the game or to bring raaaid down

Tracersmoke is delayed on my computer setup as well raaaid... I just tested it for you...
We can only guess if this is historically correct or a bug, or it has something to do with computer power...

crucislancer
05-24-2007, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
what i just cant understand is that i seem to have found an easy to check out big bug and of 1000 person absolutly all turn the back on me

whats this about to improve the game or to bring raaaid down

Raaid, if everyone is "turning their back on you", then they obviously don't think you are right. Why do you insist that this "smoke distance" thing is an issue? And why mention that it might affect your gunnery skills? Don't blame a lack of skill on your part on a graphical bug that may or may not be there.

I'm sorry if it sounds as if I'm trying to bust your chops over this, but I just want to give you a dose of reality. This is a GAME that tries to simulate a real life experience. No game will ever completely mimic the feel or all the little details of WWII air combat, at least not for a long time. Take the game for what it is, and have fun with it.

neural_dream
05-24-2007, 12:16 PM
!!! I am away for a whole year. I come back to check for news on SoW and all I find AGAIN and AGAIN and in alarmingly increasing rate is that Raaid dood's posts who migrated from the PF to the GD forum to have more audience for his constant ideas about the existence of bugs everywhere, in-game and in-life.

The tracers are supposed to look like that. What makes you think they weren't!! They have significantly different weight and trajectory. The pilots were always complaining about them. Having unsynchronised guns is a blessing, not a bug. And I don't remember what other idiotic bug you suggested in this topic. I'm tired, I'm travelling all week, and all I ask is a Raaid-free coffee-break visit to my old forum. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

If you ask why I replied to this thread knowing that it would damage my intellect, it's cause I wanted to click on my sig's link and from there browse for the Cactus Diary campaign.

Taylortony
05-24-2007, 12:26 PM
For crying out loud, please give those poor little fireflies a chance, they only have little wings, they are cooped up inside every other round and are expected to fly their poor little hearts out following the round in front of them............ have you no heart...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

raaaid
05-24-2007, 03:45 PM
well we have gone from its my imagination to it also happens in real life

if it happens in rl it means the trail of smoke starts to shape 200 m in front of you

then how comes the trail of smoke appears 1 m in front of you?

if you cant answer this question you are proving ive found a big long lasting bug, hey i just got a + point on my banning points

what bothers me is that of 1000 people nobody backs me up when im obviously right

this forum gives an idea of what humans are like

also i understand people prefer to discuss about hitler better than the game mistakes

Lurch1962
05-24-2007, 07:14 PM
then how comes the trail of smoke appears 1 m in front of you?

Because you're flying toward that trail of emitted smoke at 150 kt+. Yes, the bullet's a lot faster, but it doesn't take long for you to catch up to the smoke's beginning point after the round leaves your gun.

Bear in mind another graphical 'anomaly.' Now, I haven't studied this in anything like Raaaid-esque detail. But I get the strong impression that for effects like tracer smoke (among others) there are limitations on how close it's drawn relative to your virtual viewpoint.

To see this in action, fire your guns (those whose rounds leave smoke) and while doing so, pause. Go to the external view, and vary your magnification, view angle and view distance from your A/C. You should notice how in some circumstances the smoke trails will disappear, even though they SHOULD be otherwise visible.

I suspect this effect has relevance regarding the appearance of tracer smoke as seen from the cockpit, too.

--Lurch--

DooDaH2007
05-24-2007, 08:00 PM
Topics question should have been:

"
Why does il-2 model a delay on tracersmoke..?
"

If we cannot come up with the answer, then it may be a bug, a limitation to the engine, or an oversight...

Hot gasses vaporizing is the closest answer so far...
I searched google for an answer but nogo...

I also would like to see this explained...

Zeus-cat
05-24-2007, 08:07 PM
Who the heck cares? How does this impact game play?

Welcome back neural.

DooDaH2007
05-24-2007, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
Who the heck cares? How does this impact game play?


I am not sure why this potential bug would be any less of a bug, as the thousands reported and fixed in the patches before...

I would like to think, that by now, il-2 is very bug-free and wonder is there is a natural explanation for the delay...



I propose another possible answer...
There is a delay becouse il-2 is also based upon multiplayer...
Every server will give you a different ping and thus a different ammount you have to lead...

By delaying the tracersmoke, you get the illusion of aiming, without the smoke passing infront of the enemy plane in your view in a deflectionshot and the enemy plane going down all the same...

Remember, the server sees things a bit different than you...

Akronnick
05-24-2007, 10:10 PM
In the Immortal words of the great one:


Is not bug, is feature

And in this case, I happen to agree with Oleg. The vapor trail should take some time to form behind a tracer round, Just as a contrail from a jet airliner takes a second or two to form behind the engines, leaving a gap between the tail of the plane and the contrail.

raaaid
05-25-2007, 04:31 AM
several points

when the plane is stopped it happens the same, so speed of plane is irrevelant

it happens with all tracers

it ruins your gunnery on a quarter of a second( no wonder my fauvorite gun is la5 for not having tracers)

the fact that the smoke trail starts 1 m in front of the stopped plane means the bullets burn from 1 m in fron of the plane

only option left is that smoke remains invisible for a quarter of a second and appears all of the sudden but this cant be either because the closer smoke should appear first and it appears all amoke all of the sudden

and the most important point why should every country of this world produce tracers that ruin your gunnery, it just doesnt make sense it can only be a bug

now i just hope people cares about this big bug or we will have it also in bob because so far has lasted 6 years, why not seven

crucislancer
05-25-2007, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
several points

when the plane is stopped it happens the same, so speed of plane is irrevelant

it happens with all tracers

it ruins your gunnery on a quarter of a second( no wonder my fauvorite gun is la5 for not having tracers)

the fact that the smoke trail starts 1 m in front of the stopped plane means the bullets burn from 1 m in fron of the plane

only option left is that smoke remains invisible for a quarter of a second and appears all of the sudden but this cant be either because the closer smoke should appear first and it appears all amoke all of the sudden

and the most important point why should every country of this world produce tracers that ruin your gunnery, it just doesnt make sense it can only be a bug

now i just hope people cares about this big bug or we will have it also in bob because so far has lasted 6 years, why not seven

First off, if you are paying more attention to the smoke then where your rounds are going, yeah, you are going to have gunnery problems. In fact, you shouldn't even pay attention to it.

Second, I didn't notice smoke from 1m from a parked planes tracers. I tried this with a bf109G with gunpods. lots o' tracers there. Smoke was more like a few meters away.

Next, as stated before, the tracer isn't going to produce smoke at first due to the fact of how hot it burns to start with.

Furthermore, the La5 does have tracers, they just aren't loaded at 4 to 1 like most others. Something like 10 to 1, but I wasn't counting.

Lastly, I'm still wondering why the smoke bothers you. If it really affects your gunnery, then you need to re-learn your gunnery skills. I never pay attention to smoke, and I realize what the historical properties of tracers are: The round has different aerodynamic properties then a standard round, especially at long distances. Compensate for that, and your gunnery should improve.

XyZspineZyX
05-25-2007, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Lurch1962:
As Chris Blair alluded to, it's indeed temperature -related. As the tracer gases are emitted, they are initially a hot "vapour", if you will. Upon cooling sufficiently condensates appear, which are visible as smoke particles. It takes a finite time for this cooling to occur, hence the "delay" in smoke's appearance.

--Lurch--

Thank You http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-25-2007, 10:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

raaaid-

The sim isn't going to model dynamic tracer smoke. It's just not. It's needless. The smoke trail you see when parked is the same as when you're flying. It's not a "bug", it's a waste of time to model dynamic tracer smoke trails. It's not an error in programming, this is an omission, and a very concious one

Many things are omitted. Take flaps. I should be able to crank down flaps by degree. But I can't. I get "combat", "landing" and "takeoff" positions for flaps

There's many many thing slike this missing from this flight sim, and from most others. But they aren't "bugs"

If I'm at full power, and I belly land my plane, the prop is bent exactlt the same way as if my engine is off and free-wheeling

This is, strictly speaking, 100% incorrect to display. But that isn't modelled, it was just not put in the sim

Dynamic tracer effects also weren't put in the sim. You're seeing a compromise. The whole thing isn't important enough to spend time on, so they didnt