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vgs_109
09-05-2009, 12:09 PM
Hi all,

I have been flying the Bf109 offline for a while now and -being fairly new to this game- have this question for the more experienced pilots on this forum (it possibly applies to all aircrafts that are mounted with a cannon + MGs): when do you fire *only* cannon or *only* machine guns?

I personally tend to fire both at the same time while I still have cannon ammunition and only fire just the MGs when either I ran out of cannon ammo or to test my deflection angle.

My convergence settings are both set to 180.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

The_Stealth_Owl
09-05-2009, 12:16 PM
Helo! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Heres a better avatar for you if you want:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt138/SILVERFISH1992/Greenavatar.gif

The_Stealth_Owl
09-05-2009, 12:22 PM
Or this one:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt138/SILVERFISH1992/Green1.gif



Now, I use the machine guns and somtimes the cannons at the same time.

PanzerAce
09-05-2009, 12:26 PM
I generally fire both, with a few exceptions:

1: Engaging bombers with 30+mm. In this case, I'll only fire the cannon (unless it's a -39/-63, because I suck at connecting with those cannons, and I need the .50s/.30s to help me walk it in)

2: snap shots. I generally don't waste cannon ammo in these situations, instead relying on MGs to maybe damage a wing to setup a cannon shot later.

vgs_109
09-05-2009, 12:31 PM
Thank you!

AndyJWest
09-05-2009, 12:38 PM
I'm no 109 expert, but I think I can add a few pointers:

109s have a lot more M/G than cannon rounds, so if you fire them both together you'll run out of cannon first. You don't want to waste cannon rounds, so doing as you say can pay off - testing deflection before switching. I believe in real life that is what Bf 109 pilots were taught to do too. If you are getting in to 180m or so to fire your cannon, you are using the best tactics (against enemy fighters - bombers you can engage from a bit further off). I cant think of any reason to fire cannon only, except possibly against armoured targets on the ground.

Personally, when flying a 109, if I'm out of cannon ammunition I take it as a sign to head back to base, unless presented with an easy target, though the later 109s have 13mm M/Gs, which are still useful.

109 G6 variants have the option of 20mm or 30mm cannon - I usually prefer to go with the 20mm, as they again have more rounds - if I was a better shot, I might change my mind.

Don't use optional gun pods in any situation where you might have to dogfight: they have for too much detrimental effect on performance.

Zeus-cat
09-05-2009, 12:39 PM
If I remember, I try to set up the shot with MGs and then when I see evidence of hits I squeeze off a few rounds of cannon. I usually don't do this though and tend to fire both if I think the shots will hit. I only try to fire MGs for low probability shots.

JG53_Valantine
09-05-2009, 12:57 PM
I use my MG's as the targeters and then open up with the MGs and Cannon once I have calcualated the lead to give him.
For me the Cannons make the kills.
V

general_kalle
09-05-2009, 01:07 PM
also you can use the machine guns to make an enemy break off so you can lead his turn and catch up to him faster.

Xiolablu3
09-05-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm with Andy, once the cannon ammo has gone in a 109 I head back to base most of the time, unless a teammate is in trouble.

The 2x.303 or 2x13mm of the 109's just dont do enough damage.

Even the 4x.303 of the Spitfire dont do much damage, so half of that is even worse.

I generally dont find 2 or 4 mgs very good in the sim.

One exception is the .50 cals in the Spitfire IX 1944, which oddly seem like sniper weapons to me. Very often a bandit is steaming out of range, and I have sniped him with the Spits 2x.50's and its slowed him down enough to catch. I guess everyones experience is different.

Erkki_M
09-05-2009, 01:23 PM
I almost always use both... You know, shoot only to kill; dont play with your prey, and if you're not sure about hitting then get closer!

I always head home when or right before I'm out of cannon ammo... MGs and the cannon rounds left are there just in case I need to defend myself en-route, find some targets of oppoturnity or a bad guy harassing friends, or that pack of P38s you, on certain servers, every now and then see raiding Luftwaffe airfields. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-05-2009, 01:35 PM
I never fire cannons without firing machine guns. But I do fire MGs without firing cannons. I will do this at ranges that exceed my convergence and/or to estimate range and lead. Once I see my MGs hitting their mark I unleash the cannons as well. I have found this very effective.

I will also fire MGs only when I want the enemy plane to maneuver where I want them too, so I have a better firing solution. Even if they do not land it still fools the enemy pilot into thinking I have a firing solution on them.

I almost always use 200m as my desired convergence. However I do bump it up or down depending on the aircraft I am flying.

S!

Choctaw111
09-05-2009, 05:02 PM
I second what Havok is saying.
There are times where I may only use the machine guns, but when the target is close to convergence, I let him have it with everything.
Again, as already said, the machine guns are great for scaring your opponent into doing something beneficial for you.

Ba5tard5word
09-05-2009, 05:12 PM
Only having 2 mg's stinks, even if they're 13mm's. I really just use them to pepper the enemy a bit in hopes of setting his engine on fire, and using them as tracers to help me get a bead with my cannons.

Tully__
09-05-2009, 05:44 PM
vgs_109, JG53_Valantine, can we have the Swastika's removed from your signature images please. In some countries where this forum is read, display symbol is illegal in most circumstances. Where it appears in historical photos posted as part of an individual post in context it's OK, but we prefer it's not in your signature.

Scolar
09-05-2009, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Tully__:
vgs_109, JG53_Valantine, can we have the Swastika's removed from your signature images please. In some countries where this forum is read, display symbol is illegal in most circumstances. Where it appears in historical photos posted as part of an individual post in context it's OK, but we prefer it's not in your signature.

In those countries it must therefore be illegal to play the game. Surely?

AndyJWest
09-05-2009, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
vgs_109, JG53_Valantine, can we have the Swastika's removed from your signature images please. In some countries where this forum is read, display symbol is illegal in most circumstances. Where it appears in historical photos posted as part of an individual post in context it's OK, but we prefer it's not in your signature.

In those countries it must therefore be illegal to play the game. Surely? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As the game is supplied, there are no swastikas on German aircraft. Some people choose to add them to skins for authenticity, but that is their choice. Neither Ubisoft nor other players need accept any responsibility for that. If people choose to use them on signatures then rightly or wrongly it might be taken as a political statement - I think that in most cases it isn't but why should the rest of us risk the forum getting into trouble over a few black pixels? If people want to argue 'freedom of speech' then that is their right, but it is not Ubi's obligation to let them do it here. Personally I wish I lived in a world where symbols like the swastika did not cause the emotional response they do, but I seem to recall that was the intention of those who first used it as a political symbol.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-05-2009, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
vgs_109, JG53_Valantine, can we have the Swastika's removed from your signature images please. In some countries where this forum is read, display symbol is illegal in most circumstances. Where it appears in historical photos posted as part of an individual post in context it's OK, but we prefer it's not in your signature.

In those countries it must therefore be illegal to play the game. Surely? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As the game is supplied, there are no swastikas on German aircraft. Some people choose to add them to skins for authenticity, but that is their choice. Neither Ubisoft nor other players need accept any responsibility for that. If people choose to use them on signatures then rightly or wrongly it might be taken as a political statement - I think that in most cases it isn't but why should the rest of us risk the forum getting into trouble over a few black pixels? If people want to argue 'freedom of speech' then that is their right, but it is not Ubi's obligation to let them do it here. Personally I wish I lived in a world where symbols like the swastika did not cause the emotional response they do, but I seem to recall that was the intention of those who first used it as a political symbol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually they where there in the beginning if my memory servers me correctly. I believe Oleg had them removed for obvious reasons in an early patch. However, they can be turned back on with ease without the need of a custom skin.

Waldo.Pepper
09-05-2009, 08:26 PM
"You are done, no more table. Where are you going pal. Next time you have a chance to kill someone. Don't hesitate."

Good advice if you ask me.

Tully__
09-05-2009, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
vgs_109, JG53_Valantine, can we have the Swastika's removed from your signature images please. In some countries where this forum is read, display symbol is illegal in most circumstances. Where it appears in historical photos posted as part of an individual post in context it's OK, but we prefer it's not in your signature.

In those countries it must therefore be illegal to play the game. Surely? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As the game is supplied, there are no swastikas on German aircraft. Some people choose to add them to skins for authenticity, but that is their choice. Neither Ubisoft nor other players need accept any responsibility for that. If people choose to use them on signatures then rightly or wrongly it might be taken as a political statement - I think that in most cases it isn't but why should the rest of us risk the forum getting into trouble over a few black pixels? If people want to argue 'freedom of speech' then that is their right, but it is not Ubi's obligation to let them do it here. Personally I wish I lived in a world where symbols like the swastika did not cause the emotional response they do, but I seem to recall that was the intention of those who first used it as a political symbol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually they where there in the beginning if my memory servers me correctly. I believe Oleg had them removed for obvious reasons in an early patch. However, they can be turned back on with ease without the need of a custom skin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think they were in the pre-release demo for the original IL2 Sturmovik but they weren't in the commercial release right from v1.0

doraemil
09-07-2009, 03:57 AM
I wish I was good enough to use the machines to line up cannon shots but usually the MG's hit and then our position changes and the cannons miss.

So I fire AAO (all at once) once I feel deflection / etc.

In a snapshot, I just have time to take the shot one button press and the moment is gone.

my .15 nanoseconds of fame . . .

Strafing I'll use machine guns only if its fighters or cars or in the air, fighting japanese planes. They even work good on betty's once you get past that insane 20.



all this swatstika talk is reminding me of the Taratino film Inglourious Basterds.

I can see where people really get offended, some friends know grandparents and great that were affected. Also lots of hate groups use it as their banner.

It does invoke an emotional response. It symbolizes the soup nazi, scapegoating etc.

Yet some would go historical correct. I could see that. You want it just like it was. But was for freedom of speech, its bound to rules of the forum.

Just try asking any of the guys whos banned / or suspended account for just mentioning a name of a mod or Choctaw111's locked thread. Oh wait, you can't they're banned / locked / suspended. Yeah even that dude for mentioned M4T and the word " mods" in one sentence.

Its like BnZ from HL, but worse.

yeah. anycase right now we're being served in the ubi restaurant and it's their right to refuse service.

smokers and swastikas, this ain't vegas this is carifornia can't smoke indoors . . .

squareusr
09-07-2009, 01:07 PM
In the air it's usually both, unless you go for "tasting" with the small ones.

One exception might be the rare occasion when you fly something like a dedicated bomber destroyer: with a slow and heavy 37 mm cannon you want to fire controlled single shots, and an MG is only a distraction that makes it very difficult to focus on the gun that matters (and the ballistics are way too different for using the tracers as guide).

It's completely different against ground units: if you have a hard target, ignore the MG, it will only destroy your aim. But if you have a soft target: ignore the cannon, it's only a waste of ammo (and the problem is not penetration but aim, the large caliber is wasted if it's even slightly off)