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View Full Version : Well flown 109:s and Fw:s(this isnt whining)



XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:10 AM
The other night on Greatergreen.com server I flew P39(1944)
against 109 k4(1944) and Fw190 (1944).

Normally I do very well in the p39, but this time 109 and fw guys really knew what they were doing.
It was hard to fool them into turnfights and when that happened u allways had another enemy on your 6.
Mostly they even didnt evade my distance shots,that I often use to fool the "honorable foe" to turn= bleed energy=honorable foe is dead meat. so I was left with the option, trying to keep my speed up,long distance snapshots and listening for Daimler-Benz engines from 6 oklock.
It went badly and I was even shouting angry,agitated comments about protection to my brother( wich never happens,Im a swede ).There wsnt much he could do in his Il-2 anyway.
But afterwards I was happy that axis side occationally gets the upper hand, and there was good team tactics .Well done! -s-
Normally when this happens everybody on other side goes yak3. but that day they didnt(well done)


The day before that, it didnt work so well for the axis side though.But hear this, we countered the yaks and La 5-7? with , many (most?) went "stuka" with tank gun(cannon) and allied aircraft started dropping from the sky.and many
stukas got kills with either "funny cannon" or the sniper in the backseat.

he he ! stuka... ...


.......Anyway... for 109 and fw this is extremly important knowledge, to keep the speed up (minimum turns)and dont let u be fooled to turn by the distance shots. and always fly with others and u will even shoot some yak3:s.


(o.b:s lectures from own experience) LoL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:10 AM
The other night on Greatergreen.com server I flew P39(1944)
against 109 k4(1944) and Fw190 (1944).

Normally I do very well in the p39, but this time 109 and fw guys really knew what they were doing.
It was hard to fool them into turnfights and when that happened u allways had another enemy on your 6.
Mostly they even didnt evade my distance shots,that I often use to fool the "honorable foe" to turn= bleed energy=honorable foe is dead meat. so I was left with the option, trying to keep my speed up,long distance snapshots and listening for Daimler-Benz engines from 6 oklock.
It went badly and I was even shouting angry,agitated comments about protection to my brother( wich never happens,Im a swede ).There wsnt much he could do in his Il-2 anyway.
But afterwards I was happy that axis side occationally gets the upper hand, and there was good team tactics .Well done! -s-
Normally when this happens everybody on other side goes yak3. but that day they didnt(well done)


The day before that, it didnt work so well for the axis side though.But hear this, we countered the yaks and La 5-7? with , many (most?) went "stuka" with tank gun(cannon) and allied aircraft started dropping from the sky.and many
stukas got kills with either "funny cannon" or the sniper in the backseat.

he he ! stuka... ...


.......Anyway... for 109 and fw this is extremly important knowledge, to keep the speed up (minimum turns)and dont let u be fooled to turn by the distance shots. and always fly with others and u will even shoot some yak3:s.


(o.b:s lectures from own experience) LoL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:13 AM
um.....best planes in game are LW everyone knows this... yak3s were tough in IL2 but in FB they arent even a nuisance.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:18 AM
bf109,s ROCK!! when yaks ROLL

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:31 AM
Ive heard the advice about not turning in LW planes many a time, but what are you supposed to do after a head on pass, if you just clime that p39 or yak will be on your tail in a heartbeat.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:15 PM
I was there that night.
Greater green is the fun place to be. (dont tell anyone cos its hard to get on as it is)
I had a few problems with Stukas that night.
Twice flying into them by accident. (I was in a YAK 9)
It was quite funny to see a furball develop between
IL2's and Stukas.





Some soar like an eagle
Some circle as vultures.
I fly like a tit!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:25 PM
DesertPhox wrote:
- Ive heard the advice about not turning in LW planes
- many a time, but what are you supposed to do after a
- head on pass, if you just clime that p39 or yak will
- be on your tail in a heartbeat.

Pull up, gently, and watch what the opponent does, and react accordingly. Never start turning in horizontal while in 109.

As far as FW's go I have no idea. All they can do seems to be diving ONCE, then spending rest of the day regaining alt... :-)

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:45 PM
- As far as FW's go I have no idea. All they can do
- seems to be diving ONCE, then spending rest of the
- day regaining alt... :-)
-



Roll rate, Roll rale !!!

This is what it had as a real advantage in real life, and still somewhat in the game. At high speeds it out rolls most other A/C in the sky.

In real life it out roll'd almost every other A/C
Interesting, the P 61 could easilly keep up with a FW 190's
roll rate. Having spoilers introduced, and used on the P 61 made all the difference in the world /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 04:15 PM
DesertPhox


Never do headons. In a German plane, you should ALWAYS be fighting in the vertical. A horizontal headon, is not fighting in the vertical. It's turn fighting. Sometimes when you dive on a Rusky, he will turn towards you. When this happens, just break off, and climb back up. Never do headons if you want to live. It's to risky.

Da Buzz
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<center>
Aerobatics are fun../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
<center>
http://www.eddieandreiniairshows.com/images/Yak_ne2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 04:43 PM
DesertPhox wrote:
- Ive heard the advice about not turning in LW planes
- many a time, but what are you supposed to do after a
- head on pass, if you just clime that p39 or yak will
- be on your tail in a heartbeat.
-
-

no they will not. if you do a head on and then go into a climb he will never be able to follow. he has to turn and loses energy and you can outclimb them in a 109. Try in QMB. pick a 109f4 and lets say 4 La5 set to ace. shortly before they can shoot in the head on make a short dive and immediatley climb to the right. then go up completely vertical. you will see them drop off cause they don't have E. then you can shoot them. if you miss go up again.

http://www.just-pooh.com/images/eten.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 05:12 PM
Greater Green has some of the best axis vs. allies dogfights out there, 'specially with the (new) "per-year" maps - for the most part, those flying German planes there do so correctly. I was on it the other night with a bunch of 109's fighting 39's and Yaks, and both sides were flying rediculously well - the Ruskies never flew in a straight line, and the Germans kept diving and climbing. There was a good 5 minute period where I don't even think anyone was hit, lotsa gun fire but not much else.
This game is at it's best when you start worrying about your fuel consumption and distance back to base, despite there being a free-for-all dogfight going on.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 05:20 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- DesertPhox
-
-
- Never do headons. In a German plane, you should
- ALWAYS be fighting in the vertical. A horizontal
- headon, is not fighting in the vertical. It's turn
- fighting. Sometimes when you dive on a Rusky, he
- will turn towards you. When this happens, just break
- off, and climb back up. Never do headons if you want
- to live. It's to risky.
-
-
- Da Buzz

In a G10 or K4 with wingpod cannons id do it, think about it: you have 3 cannons and 2 machineguns, when the Yak3 for instance have 1 cannon and 2 machineguns. A headon isnt as bad as it sounds unless you play the chickenrace too long and noone breaks off /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Granted, a headon situation isnt desirable. But as G√ľnther Rall said in an interview: "You dont always get to choose your position. Your in, you have to see how to get out"



Message Edited on 07/04/0304:22PM by Olli_72

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 05:27 PM
Spiral Climb is your best friend....gets those pesky yaks off your back right quick. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Sometimes i get lured into a turn fight though...sigh*...damn habits.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:00 PM
Olli_72

No thanks. I like staying alive.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center> Butcher Bird
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/hannig3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:00 PM
In a 109 after a head-on, climb as others have said. In a 190, as I have said many times, just keep flying with your throttle pinned and use gentle turns but the main thing is *get help from your wingmen*. That is why 190's were always flown in pairs. P-39's and Yaks should never catch you, ever. And your wingman should be able to catch any pursuers. Never go into a sustained climb, if you have to get altitude use zoom climb as your speed should always be up. I really believe FW-190 is a very good plane but it absolutely requires teamwork as in real life. 1 vs. 1 the 190 is one of the worst planes in the game and I think this is somewhat accurate. A plane that has average/below average climb and turning ability probably shouldn't do well in 1 vs. 1 battles. If you get outnumbered or find yourself 1 on 1 simply run and find help. Your only concern should be La-5/7's as they have the speed to match you. The 190 has to be flown very well to succeed against these planes, again using teamwork.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:22 PM
kyrule2

A wingman is not always the answer. I always attack the wingman.Get him fast before the lead plane can help him.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center> Butcher Bird
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/hannig3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:48 PM
Buzz, I'm not sure what you mean. Of course getting the wingman always helps, and if the lead plane was chasing after someone else that is exactly what I mean. One gets chased, the other takes out pursuers. I was referring to the importance of using your own wingman and teamwork, if your wingman gets bagged and you are alone, then get the hell out of dodge. And it sounds like you are referring to a multiple plane engagement, where the FW-190 can use its assets. My main point is that 1 vs. 1 engagements are a bad idea for the 190, go and get help. This is more important for 190 than say Yak, La, and 109 as they can hold their own in 1 vs. 1 battles. I think I am misunderstanding your comment. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 07:20 PM
What I really mean is, your not always safe in a 190 with a wingman. Even against just one other plane.

If your smart in an La7. It's not hard to pick off two 190's working together.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center> Butcher Bird
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/hannig3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 07:44 PM
5 La-7's are no match for a single well flown Fw 190A9 or D9 in full realism. Of course greatergreen.com server is medium realism so I guess that doesn't carry over. Icons and externals neuter the Fw 190's.

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 07:58 PM
I was flying on greatergreen also. I don't know if I was on the same time you were.

Since FB came out I have been mostly flying He111, Stukas, TB3 and P47s and having a good time movin' dirt (and padding everyone else's score)

When I do pick a fighter it has usually been a Yak3. But last night I got on the blue side to even out the teams and really enjoyed flying the 109s.

It doesn't turn as tightly as the russian birds, but what got me is how easy it is to survive in the 109. In the Yak, when I run out of ammo or get damaged, if I turn for home with germans around, I get smoked. That happens in the 109 you just climb away. I even got to work on my landings.

I'm not a great dogfighter. And I am not telling you aces anything didn't already know. But in a 109 on a Red-vs-Blue server, you get to choose your fights.

That's good times.

-Clay.Pigeon

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 08:20 PM
You bet alot of the regulars have figured out the proper use for late war german planes. On the '44 '45 maps the allies tend to get just creamed and badly. Usually this ends up being a 20 pilot lead or more. The K4 junkies have gotten so bad that people will tend to fly the axis way more as the yaks are proving themselves to be completely useless. Its not just the plane and the way it is flown it involves team tactics at the very least sticking together. Sure does look funny seeing those helpless yaks with a flock of K4's divebombing them. Reminds me of seeing an eagle caught low and slow by a murder of crows.
No doubt the gg server has some great maps on its rotation now. All you ground pounders should check it out. I find the best way to win against the Axis in late war servers is to let the newbs go fight the K4's in their yaks. Then go for a win by ground attack. Either I will fly Il2's or escort them. Usually you will find some Axis down by the ground targets with gunpods looking for Il2's if your escorting you can rack up some easy kills as the gunpods negate the advantages of the K4.
Myself I love flying latewar Axis and the reason is the W190-A9. kyrule2 said it way better than me but I managed to get over 30 kills in one before I was shot down by Janos71 in his La5FN. I got lazy and too self confident. I bailed out over friendly territory to fight again another day though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Im babbling again but really what gg has shown me is that in general well flown latewar Axis planes completely dominate latewar Allie planes.
Salut pilots of greatergreen!

<div align='center'>http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig.jpg ('http://standonguard.com')</div><p align='right'><font size='-6' color='white'>(c)2003 Neil Brideau ('http://dica.darktech.org')</font></p>

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:26 PM
30 kills, man I'm sure I was at least 10 of them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . You, WUAF_Mj_Hero, GR142-GenSwat, are always making me reach for my chute. We need to make you guys use red skins so we know when to run /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

If the late war Axis gets much better on greater green we may have to create a rule that keeps the teams at a 2/3 ratio. Eight axis vs 12 Russians would even things out a bit. And be a little more historical

-Clay

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:36 PM
You were probably flying against some of the WUAF ... We have quite a few Axis aces.. Maj. Death btw GG has never had externals so I dunno what your talking about medium difficulty.... only thing on is Friendly icons and even that is very limited by distance and only shows the planes number. What usually turns me off though in GR is the guys who are "point happy" and just steal all the kills they can. *coughLunixcoughcough* It just burns me up when I and a teammate literally have every single engine on a tb3 on fire and the pilot bails leaving the plane to glide into the earth and some ****** saying hey easy points cause the plane is already dead comes up and shoots the helpless bomber that some1 worked hard against to kill because of the ubber ai gunners just to get those large points.... Respect people show some respect sometimes. Sometimes instances such as these make me think the stat tracker should have never been implemented... Anyways. GG has some very good pilots I salute you all. See you in the skys..

Mar

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:10 PM
What! Me steal points? Perhaps accidentally but never ever intentionally. I have the upmost respect for my fellow pilots. I will definately hang arround lest the attacker gets shot down before the plane is down also because I do not think flying by myself is a wise idea. Perhaps I saw the TB-3 and no one around and thought it a valid target but I cannot remember getting a TB3 kill in days. Sorry but I am offended to be called a point ***** when everyone who flys with me on my squad knows me to be the opposite. I fly for many reasons and I assure you that points are of little signifigance.
WUAF has excellent Axis pilots and they are a force to be reconed with when they are in the air. I never understood that guy who has the sig "We kill yaks" untill I saw Axis planes flown properly.
LOL CP Hero and Genswat are amazing pilots and I live in fear of them too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif You are not exactly a spring chicken yourself and I am allways glad to see that you are flying with us and not agaisnt us.

<div align='center'>http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig.jpg ('http://standonguard.com')</div><p align='right'><font size='-6' color='white'>(c)2003 Neil Brideau ('http://dica.darktech.org')</font></p>

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:21 PM
Everytime I have flown on GG it is always icons, externals and PL. I havn't played on it in over a month though, so they may have changed it.

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:33 PM
Thanks for interresting comments and opinions./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Im really interrested in the comparisons of ac(axis/allied)

Ive (we) tried to evaluate combat effectiveness for each plane, with another equal pilot.one vs one
we tried Bf109 k4 against Yak3, we switched planes and did it again, in these aspects:

We flew side by side at same speed and hight and performed
this:
-turn(the outcome was obvius, but we tried it anyway)
-dive
-climb
-level speed
result= 109k4 accelerated a bit faster initially,but yak3
easily caught up after afew seconds in dive, climb and level speed.there was no way to escape in the 109 in those aspects.

-We tried it head on. And the 109k4 could not get another pass. All it could do after the headon was to continue in a dive and try to loose the yak3 against the ground. if u didnt the yak soon caught up.

The result was in all. there was no way to get a yak3 one vs one. only on the head on pass.

the really interresting thing is that non of us had flown the yak3 more than a handfull times.

Online the only way to get the Yak3 is with team tactics (drag n bag)or a lucky bounce or head on. or ofcourse if u catch a damaged,a rookie or a yak3 in slow speed.
but on an equal basis,I can not understand how u could win against the yak3. after these tests.

We are practicing evasive manuovers for the 109 and will
give the results soon.

-s-

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:19 PM
Ya they have a 1945 map in the rotation now with Dora 45, and boy is the difference noticeable. The acceleration and speed advantage over the 44 version may not seem like much when you do tests, but in fights against LAs and Yaks it is a huge difference.

Oh and if you come in there and fly blue, please dont loop or make tight turns when calling for help, cause we will all just ignore you. And don't climb either, if you have the E advanatge to evade them by climbing then you don't need help.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:28 PM
Dont worry bout it bro <Lunix> it was in the heat of combat with about 6 planes fighting all at once so its hard to understand what every person and every enemy is doin so Im sorry if I came off a lil harsh. Back to Maj. Death I swear bro were you having a dream or something a month ago? :P GR ever since IL2 has never had externals ever :P GR is were I learned to fly because of the realistic settings.. Im starting to wish that the icons were back on fully though because my monitor is crap and I only have a 9000pro so when a bandit goes low it just blends in and then im 56k so when they warp its really tough to keep up with them.. I just remember in IL2 my first flight I'd look to my left and see my teammates name etc and be like wow this is freak'n awesome and then I'd see a formation of blue and be like oh man... this is even better than I thought... Just felt like a more coordinated battle than with the icons off. As for Hero ya he is my official wingman although he is a K4 ace and I am a P39 ace =\ we sometimes have to butt heads in the sky because of this :P but we are still a great combo if I jump in his plane or he jumps in mine :P then we have Carbon the resident Yak hater who lives pretty much too kill yaks in his FW.. Im actually growing to love the FW because of its visibility <yes folks I said it :P> It actually has pretty decent visibility and if you learn the tactics of a FW they have nice nice aiming :P Tip 1 when in a FW when you bnz go lower than ur target and come at him from a angle just below him that way you always have him in sight and it makes the deflection shot that much easier plus when your inches away all u have to do is pull back on the stick and the angle is so great you wont touch him.. Maybe mess up his hair because of the gust of wind you create :P but it works ^^ Havent seen Genswat in some time rumor is all the yak hating turned him off of the game for a while =\ oops.. I caught myself babbling... sorry :P


Stay straight fly right

Mar

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 12:45 AM
I flew on greatergreen the other night - best server I've flown on I think.

And I think I was the other 20 out of Lunix's 30 kills, 'cos I went down a lot.

But you can't get near those K4s when they're climbing.

Still, plenty of people still do TnB in that plane...