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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 07:44 AM
Yes, i know this has been posted a million times, but if anyone knows a thread that can awnser my questions, just link me to it pls.

I was wondering, for the average gamer, who will probably only use it in FB, is Track IR really worth it? I dont want it so i can become some uber ace (cause it wont make me) I would like to get it for the immersion factor. Also, does it feel akward? And do you have ot turn your head alot to see behind you, so much so that it's hard to see the screen?

Anyway, sorry for yet another post on Track IR. Hope you can help though!

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 07:44 AM
Yes, i know this has been posted a million times, but if anyone knows a thread that can awnser my questions, just link me to it pls.

I was wondering, for the average gamer, who will probably only use it in FB, is Track IR really worth it? I dont want it so i can become some uber ace (cause it wont make me) I would like to get it for the immersion factor. Also, does it feel akward? And do you have ot turn your head alot to see behind you, so much so that it's hard to see the screen?

Anyway, sorry for yet another post on Track IR. Hope you can help though!

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 07:53 AM
BS87 wrote:
- I was wondering, for the average gamer, who will
- probably only use it in FB, is Track IR really worth
- it?

Depends on how much you play FB.

- I dont want it so i can become some uber ace
- (cause it wont make me) I would like to get it for
- the immersion factor. Also, does it feel akward?

It's comfort of use depends on where you put the sticker. Put it on a mic or cap, and it's very natural to use. It adds a lot to immersion and situational awareness. I haven't used padlock even once in 13 months... because TrackIR does all that and much more.


- And
- do you have ot turn your head alot to see behind
- you, so much so that it's hard to see the screen?

It's adjustable. You can use nonlinear scale so that little movements when aiming do not move the view, and outside the middle are tiny movements produce large turns... It's completely adjustable.


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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 07:55 AM
BS87 wrote:
- I was wondering, for the average gamer, who will
- probably only use it in FB, is Track IR really worth
- it?

IMHO TrackIR is the best thing to come along for flight sims sense the joystick!

- I dont want it so i can become some uber ace
- (cause it wont make me)

It will help, but, it wont make up for bad tatics.

- I would like to get it for the immersion factor.

That is the BEST THING ABOUT IT! You really feel like you sitting there... no more HAT on a JOYSTICK... your hands are FREE to do other more important and REALISTIC hand things... Now you head does the looking... And it feels right!

- Also, does it feel akward?

Initally... like anything new... yes, but not for long.

- And do you have ot turn your head alot to see behind
- you, so much so that it's hard to see the screen?

Nope! And it is adjustable, basically looking from the the left side of your PC screen to the right side will translate into looking all the way back over your left and right sholder.. And by looking I mean moving your head, ie pointing your nose at the left and rights sides of your PC monitor.

- Anyway, sorry for yet another post on Track IR. Hope
- you can help though!

Anytime! There is another guy here... Dncr.. or something like that.. he is real hip with the software and setting it all up with all the options, look him up if you have troubles with that.. once you get it that is! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 07:58 AM
i normally used mouse view in the past (joystick in LH) so in terms of game play i did not find it hugely different but it definitely works

i have tried FPS but there is an autopan feature that lets you spin right around in FPS

the main improvement over mouse view is the ability to quickly scan from rear left to rear right

getting the right arrangement of reflective dots to work reliably is tricky .. after that was fixed i found it very much set and forget

some people use fancy "deadzone" profiles that give minimal view movement looking ahead and accelerated movement the further from centre you look but i found even the standard linear profile was fine

immersion is good .. the temptation to lean over the side to look down is uncanny and oddly seems has hte illusion of actually working ... (the technique of leaning forward and back for looking up at sky or down at instruments actually works very well)



Message Edited on 07/18/0307:01AM by WTE_Galway

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 08:07 AM
THere are a few of the 401 that own it ToTo Porthos and perhaps more...They absolutley swear by it....THEY love it.... If you see them online ask them

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 10:37 AM
Yes, it's really worth it to me! It can be tweaked to reach anyones personal requirements; mine is set up with the transmitter/receiver on a light boom extended from the monitor for example. It takes a while to get the software settings you need - trial & error stuff - but it's magic when you find your optimum.
I now use TrackIR only - the tophat on my Fighterstick is now free for other commands, including the hotkeys for TIR management - it's the most "immersive" feature since force-feedback imo, and as important to me as my stick, pedals and rig!

Mind you, I'm biased on the subject /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I lost my right arm in an accident and I'll grab for any aid to flying! Not to mention the chance of a few spare KB commands such as I just mentioned. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I don't expect to become a virtual ace in IL2 - I do that on my bike & sidecar in RL (keeps me smiling) - but it's great just to participate with a fighting chance!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

NaturalPoint developed SmartNav, the precursor to TIR, to aid people who have difficulty using the mouse and keyboard simultaneously, I think they're a great crew. Support is good, up-dated drivers are due, an enhanced mode is written into Forgotten Battles, and it raises the fun factor enormously - you'd be crazy not to try it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I won't be influenced by the cheat-whiners. TIR is as important a developement as the joystick, and who would go back to mouse-flight to prove a point?

6BL*Brando

Stuff the fugitive....here comes the one-armed man!!

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:12 AM
Its nice but expensive and not really worth it, all oleg has to do is make standard 8 hat switch povs work like mouse cursor control and theres no need for track ir.

If you have janes wii fighters check how smooth the panning is just like moving your mouse in il2FB

Theres a program on www.simhq.com (http://www.simhq.com) which works descent but its still not as smooth as the mouse.


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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:18 AM
Yes.

It's really worth it.

Enhanced mode TrackIR puts you right in that cockpit.

Flying without it now seems wholly unnatural.

Cheers,

SSS

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:37 AM
TrackIR is definitely not worth it.

I am one of the greatest aces of all time and have never had to use it. Plus, if you are a discerning gamer like me you will probably not be happy with the refresh rate of the the device while panning.

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:51 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- TrackIR is definitely not worth it.
-
- I am one of the greatest aces of all time and have
- never had to use it. Plus, if you are a discerning
- gamer like me you will probably not be happy with
- the refresh rate of the the device while panning.


Thanks RBJ! I wasn't sure if I should get one but u convinced me and I ordered! I'm nothing like u and if ppl like u are not happy with it then I must be /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Anyone have an url to tir FB configs?

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:09 PM
-
- Anyone have an url to tir FB configs?
-



http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zedfc&tpage=1&direction=0

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:17 PM
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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:27 PM
It's worth every dollar you pay. It's no overstatement that TIR is the best single enhancement to flight simmin' after the joystick. Others have said this and it's very true in my opinion. The hardest part is dot placement. Once you get that nailed down and spend an hour tweaking settings, you're good to go. You also get the added pirk of being able to use it for other games.

For me, it's improved my situational awareness tremendously. It's also improved my gunnery because I can totally focus on shooting and not having to work the hat switch and fire at the same time. Furthermore, the hat switch can mapped to different functions. I use my hat switches to handle incremental FOV zoom levels.

As for what RBJ said regarding refresh rate. I've noticed no stutter or drop in FPS as a result of using TIR. The only time you might get a stutter is if for some reason it loses tracking. About 99% of the time, it's smooth and tracking is always maintained.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:28 PM
-
--- Anyone have an url to tir FB configs?

Not at hand sorry, but a trawl through the forum at www.naturalpoint.com (http://www.naturalpoint.com) should net a few good, er, fish? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





Stuff the fugitive....here comes the one-armed man!!

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:29 PM
I love mine, for sure. I use it for FS2002, FB and some FPSs (not many). It's very natural to use.



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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:50 PM
TrackIR looks cool for sure.

But just a question to the hosts playing with TrackIR, why don't you let the padlock enabled for people not having this equipment?

Do you think it's a fair game to fight against players "looking" with their fingers? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

Hawgdog
07-18-2003, 02:07 PM
YES! Now be quiet and buy it quickly! NOW, DO IT!!
Please post later today that you have called an order in.I think a new squad called TIR_whatevergoeshere is soon for HP


Its better than padlock, multiple target aquisition, when you tear the wing off'n a bogie you simply turn your head to find the next threat. No fumbling around to disengage the F4 key. It rules. Love it. Wont work well with other games, but.....are there really any other games??

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:03 PM
I heard it works in Rowan's BoB nowadays too.
Haven't tried it, probably will soon (that game had some mega cool BIG formations, hurris, spits, you name it).


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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:18 PM
CHDT wrote:
- TrackIR looks cool for sure.
-
- But just a question to the hosts playing with
- TrackIR, why don't you let the padlock enabled for
- people not having this equipment?


I allow padlock. I see no problem with it at all.



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
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just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 12:37 AM
I always ask and allow padlock too, I'm the only one in my squad who has it.

We don't generally like it because it acts like "Spider-Sense" radar /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 12:50 AM
Unkle and Dexmeister, you're gentlemen /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 01:10 AM
I just got my TrackIR yesterday. I have to say it has already lived up to expectations. It feels natural and I like much better than hat-switch plus snap views. It allows me to have smooth tracking as if I used the mouse but I can keep both hands on my control and it really adds to the imersion. Some people have had to spend sometime getting used to it but for me I was able to get the hang of it after just a few minutes. I highly recomend it.

Ignore RayBanJockey untill he has actualy tried it his words are meaningless. Also, I have not noticed any decrease in performance on my system (but it is a pretty nice machine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).



Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 01:39 AM
I had it...sent it back...I couldnt justify the expense vs benifits. I look around great with the mouse view on my X45 just fine..but to each his own. I may pick it up again once i get this new house thing in order but for now to me it wasnt worth it. It is kind of nice however and if you have the cash and the time to get acclimated to it...go for it.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 08:54 AM
BS87 wrote:
- I was wondering, for the average gamer, who will
- probably only use it in FB, is Track IR really worth
- it? I dont want it so i can become some uber ace
- (cause it wont make me) I would like to get it for
- the immersion factor. Also, does it feel akward? And

Yes, it absolutely improves the immersion factor. You're turning your head in the same direction as your virtual pilot would rather than using a hat switch.

It feels very natural and you quickly start to get used to it especially when you get it set up right (Running it in enhanced mode is a MUST; F8!). The one thing that i kept doing wrong was trying to look up *at times* to see my tail. You quickly learn, though, that you should be looking over your shoulder to see your tail. This IS the natural movement you should make, but for some reason I would keep following a plane 'up' and expect raising my head to continue on into a behind-me view.

Also, I played mostly with no-cockpit before trackIR and it was easy for me to adjust. I imagine players who are used to in-cockpit will have an even easier time.

- do you have ot turn your head alot to see behind
- you, so much so that it's hard to see the screen?

No, not at all. Its all just an issue of sensitivity. Its very easy to look behind you and keep your eyes on the screen. The configuration software is very powerful for getting things just right. You can set up sensitivity curves so its not sensitive looking at your crosshair but it speeds up as you look back.

- Anyway, sorry for yet another post on Track IR. Hope
- you can help though!

If you like IL2, you owe it to yourself to get this. Put the effort into getting it configured just right and it'll be amazing and easy to use. Also, building a bigger dot is probably worth the trouble. I have a penny covered in dots that I super glued to a paperclip which i can easily clip to the end of a cap.



<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 09:01 AM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- Its nice but expensive and not really worth it, all
- oleg has to do is make standard 8 hat switch povs
- work like mouse cursor control and theres no need
- for track ir.

Nah, current on/off-style hat switches arent nearly as good as trackIR. Now, perhaps if they had an analog thumbstick similar to console games instead of a hatswitch, it might be as good, but the learning curve would probably be higher. Definitely need the variable speed.

Immersion will definitely be better with trackIR.

- If you have janes wii fighters check how smooth the
- panning is just like moving your mouse in il2FB

Well, IL2's hatswitch panning could definitely be improved for sure.

- Theres a program on www.simhq.com (http://www.simhq.com) which works
- descent but its still not as smooth as the mouse.

Smoothness isnt the issue, imo. Its the ability to make very quick movements and very slow accurate movements. Mice and trackIR are capable of this. Hatswitches arent.


<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 12:21 PM
Bang on BluesXman /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

With TrackIR I can make a very quick check to say 5 low (almost as fast as Snap view) while rolling and then check forward again. Faster than using the Hat on my X-45.

Once you are trained on it (it takes time) you can fly in much better coordinated formations and your SA is sky-high.

Like BluesXman said it is the ability to pan slowly when you need to (searching for bandits/using zoom) or pan quickly like when you are in a nasty scissor fight or vector rolling a Fw190 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

With the added "DeadZone" feature of the later TrackIR software it makes it dead easy to keep your virtual head still and take the all important shot. Deflection gunnery is much easier as you can track a target all the way in.

No performance issues here either /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 02:37 PM
Werre_ wrote:
- I heard it works in Rowan's BoB nowadays too.
- Haven't tried it, probably will soon (that game had
- some mega cool BIG formations, hurris, spits, you
- name it).

Nowadays?

Rowan's BoB was the first combat flight sim to support trackIR enhanced mode. It had enhanced support before FB was even released.

Enhanced mode is a good thing because it's a whole lot more accessible to new users. There was some learning curve to it in mouse emulation mode (which was easy as well), but now with enhanced mode looking around has become extremely easy. That's how it should be.

But what remains, your SA with trackIR is only as good as you make it.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 02:49 PM
To the initial post: Buy it...

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 02:50 PM
Is it worth it? Heck yeah! For IL2:FB it's a no brainer. I do agree that this item is a bit steep on it's price tag but if you are a Flight simmer then it will be worth every single cent.

It took me almost a year to make up my mind and buy this technology. At first it was awkard and strange since I was used to my HAT switch and pan lock, I used to get vertigo since now everything seemed to be moving on the screen but in after probably a day or two of practice and tweeking then you feel the natural reaction of looking at your enemy instead of using a finger or mouse. I was almost going to return it as Bearcat did due to the vertigo but it's like everything you have to get used on how to use it in the game then I said no way that I will return this item! It's just as important as your HOTAS, Speaker/Headphones and monitor.

If you have the money and time, get it.

If you don't have the money and don't play that much flight sims then don't get it.



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XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 05:20 PM
I've used the mouse view on my x45 but for me it seems inferior to a regular mouse (not nearly as precise, or control on speed). I have found TrackIR much better than that little mouse nob. The only thing that I know of that can compare to TrackIR would be a mouse. But it is not as natural and it takes up one hand. And it is not as imersive.


Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 05:37 PM
I want to buy it. Currently, i just using a small software emulating TrackIR on your hatswitch with TrackIr=1 in the config file. (Not emulating mouse movements)

It does move slow at beginning and than fast if i hold it but i find it weird a bit. Doesnt feel natural at all.

Only thing i want to know before buying it, is it possible to configure a button to turn it on and off WHILE inflight?

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 05:47 PM
Yes you can switch the trackIR unit on and off during flight.... NOW go and buy it!!



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XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 05:53 PM
WUAF_1Lt_Sharx wrote:
- Only thing i want to know before buying it, is it
- possible to configure a button to turn it on and off
- WHILE inflight?

Yes.

And I've done exactly that, and I've used it in the past. However, after probably 15-20 hours of flying with trackIR, I never disable it and center like I used to. I think a button like that is a learning aid that you'll eventually no longer need.



<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 06:08 PM
My only concern is thati'll probably only use it for FB right now, until i get another flightsim (thats gonna be a while)

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 10:03 AM
Mine's in the closet along with my rollerball mouse, 90MHz Pentium,486,386 and other non-recycleable hardware.

Mouse view is much smoother and hatswitch seems to work fine for many of the aces I fly with. It might improve the immersion factor, but not your score.

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 10:14 AM
dorcusmalorcus wrote:
- Mine's in the closet along with my rollerball mouse,
- 90MHz Pentium,486,386 and other non-recycleable
- hardware.
-
- Mouse view is much smoother and hatswitch seems to
- work fine for many of the aces I fly with. It might
- improve the immersion factor, but not your score.
-
-

Exactly. Immersion factor is EVERYTHING! It's worth it, believe me.
Agreed, you won't fly any better, but you'll have a hat switch free to use for something else. My hands only leave my HOTAS for the keyboard to start the engines or track recording.

Go buy it!



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nursed a hard grievance.

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 11:08 AM
dorcusmalorcus wrote:
-- Mine's in the closet along with my rollerball mouse,
-- 90MHz Pentium,486,386 and other non-recycleable
-- hardware.
--
-- Mouse view is much smoother and hatswitch seems to
-- work fine for many of the aces I fly with. It might
-- improve the immersion factor, but not your score.

I have no problems offline it works identical to mouse view all thetime without fail

It does seem to "lag" occasionally online, and I switch it off if this occurs .. however i am using the "out of the box" drivers not hte latest ones.

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 02:39 PM
if the "out of the box" drivers ar enot the ones with the Enhanced Mode then you are missing at least a 100% increase in performance over the older, pure mouse emulation mode.