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View Full Version : The Matter of Fighter Command's Shooting in the B of B



leitmotiv
10-30-2007, 04:20 PM
Interesting, but numbers, even numbers of poor-shooters, mattered. On 15 Sept 1940, when Bader's Duxford Wing sledgehammer, as unwieldy as it was, finally connected with a German raid, the German bombers broke, and scattered like terrified rabbits all over Kent. Not many were shot down, but the huge raid on London was repelled.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=S...10/30/npilots130.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=S0QRI5X4URLGTQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQ WIV0?xml=/news/2007/10/30/npilots130.xml)

JG52Uther
10-30-2007, 04:29 PM
If I had been sat in typical German BoB bomber,with a glass nose,having just been told that there were only a couple of British fighters left, then you look out and see a load of 8 gun Spitfires and Hurri's bearing down on you,I expect that I would have lost interest in bombing anything as well!

Sharpe26
10-30-2007, 04:33 PM
I found the entire article rather dimwitted.Although I found some of the comments spot on.

ploughman
10-30-2007, 04:46 PM
Crikey, NEW research? I thought the n00bs in Spits thing dated from the battle, if not shortly after the war. Even in the 1969 film the two n00bs who join Sailor Malan's squadron had less than ten hours on Spits and both had no tactical training. And, of course the inefficiency for purpose of the .303 armament was known at the time and was corrected.

As to being heroic, I think rising to fight a superior foe knowing you're unprepared and likely to perish but still doing it anyway is about as heroic as it gets.

I take it this pr1ck is selling a book?

leitmotiv
10-30-2007, 04:46 PM
What the author missed was that, even in well-trained air forces, only a small number of pilots do the bulk of the damage. The rest are spear carriers.

leitmotiv
10-30-2007, 04:57 PM
P.S. I can't find anything on the guy unless he is a (1) computer prof in Edinburgh, (2) physics prof in Canada, or (3) a childrens' book author. Probably just another grenade thrower hoping to make payments on his house by harpooning the biggest sacred cow he could find.

M_Gunz
10-30-2007, 05:44 PM
Leit, 56th FG, Zemke's Wolfpack, counts 38 Aces.

Look down about middle of the page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56th_Fighter_Group)

leitmotiv
10-30-2007, 06:09 PM
Well, yeah, Gunz, but official AAF "scores" are not remotely reliable, a-and what of it? Compared to the number of men who passed through the 56th between 1943 and 1945, the big scorers are a small fraction of the total.

zardozid
10-30-2007, 06:52 PM
Crikey, NEW research? I thought the n00bs in Spits thing dated from the battle, if not shortly after the war. Even in the 1969 film the two n00bs who join Sailor Malan's squadron had less than ten hours on Spits and both had no tactical training. And, of course the inefficiency for purpose of the .303 armament was known at the time and was corrected.

As to being heroic, I think rising to fight a superior foe knowing you're unprepared and likely to perish but still doing it anyway is about as heroic as it gets.

I take it this pr1ck is selling a book?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif


I might be remembering wrong,but...didn't Dowding himself imply that the number of German aircraft downed may have been inaccurate?

leitmotiv
10-30-2007, 07:11 PM
Dowding was well aware Fighter Command claims were way off, but he realized the policy of liberally granting confirmations raised morale, and he did nothing to end it. Of course, intelligence told the true story; Ultra was reading the Luftwaffe's signals traffic, so those at the top knew the true state of the German order of battle.

Ratsack
10-30-2007, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
What the author missed was that, even in well-trained air forces, only a small number of pilots do the bulk of the damage. The rest are spear carriers.

This is true in most forms of combat. It's also true in any occupation where people are required to use force. You train them all, but it's actually only a relatvie handful who do the business.

cheers,
Ratsack

leitmotiv
10-30-2007, 10:43 PM
Exactly.

Philipscdrw
10-31-2007, 05:57 AM
The fact is, it worked. The Germans found they couldn't bomb effectively.

More to the point, if Hitler had read the rule-book before invading France, and recreated WW1 along the Maginot Line instead of crashing through the low countries, all the bombing raids would have come from German airbases across the North Sea. Which is what Fighter Command's radar network was built to detect. And the one time the Luftwaffe did attempt to strike across the North Sea their raid was detected, intercepted, and stopped by the RAF.