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Bremspropeller
04-18-2006, 02:28 PM
Hello fellas !

I'm just talking to Danjama via MSN and we are wondering when the P-51 was introduced in the PTO and/ or CBI and in which quantities they were used.

Can somedody help us out here ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

danjama
04-18-2006, 02:45 PM
Can i add what about the P38 in the ETO? Of course it was used in the heavy bomber escort role a bit, but to what extent? What variants? How succesful were they and why? What other roles?

Thanks for any help. Im really in the dark on these two areas. Well, not really, but its always nice to be educated.

JG53Frankyboy
04-18-2006, 02:48 PM
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher1/p51.html)

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher1/p38.html)

Art-J
04-18-2006, 03:10 PM
a) P-51Bs replaced "sharknosed" P-40s in 23rd FG in China somewhere around november '43.

b) P-51D's entered service in 5th AF during Philippines campaign, when exactly, I don't know (skins of these Mustangs depict black "PTO invasion stripes" on them, so invasion of Luzon - january '45 comes to mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).

c) Iwo Jima based Mustangs entered service right after the capture of the island so the first combat sortie probably occured between late february and early march '45 I guess?

d) we should also stuff Allison-powered Mustangs of 1 Air Command Group / 311th FBG flying over Burma somewhere in early '44

Well, that's all from top of my head. Now You got something to google for more details! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers - Art

mandrill7
04-18-2006, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
Can i add what about the P38 in the ETO? Of course it was used in the heavy bomber escort role a bit, but to what extent? What variants? How succesful were they and why? What other roles?

Thanks for any help. Im really in the dark on these two areas. Well, not really, but its always nice to be educated.

The P38 was never a big item in NW Europe. After the Schweinfurt disaster in late summer 1943, there was a sudden demand for ultra-long range fighter escorts. In the pre Mustang era, this meant P-38's. Jugs never had extreme long range, even with drop tanks. IIRC 2 or perhaps even 3 P-38 FG's were formed. This reversed a previous policy wherein P-47's were preferred to P-38's in NW Europe.

However, there were maintenance problems to do with the P-38's high altitude engine performance in Wintertime. This and the arrival of the Stang essentially doomed the P-38 to a subsidiary status in the ETO. They were assigned beachhead defence over Normany, the theory being that even the most trigger-happy AAA gunner wouldn't mistake a Lightning for a 109 or Wuerger. Following this, they were phased out and replaced by P-51D's.

Much to the joy of PTO fliers, I would add. The P-38 was always THE plane of choice in the South Pacific and the guys there wanted as many P-38's as could be rolled off the assembly lines.

danjama
04-18-2006, 04:00 PM
Thanks for the brief information guys, and Franky http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Those links have kept my head stuck to the screen for the last hour http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Almost like reading a good book http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Thanks everyone!

Copperhead310th
04-19-2006, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by Art-J:
a) P-51Bs replaced "sharknosed" P-40s in 23rd FG in China somewhere around november '43.

b) P-51D's entered service in 5th AF during Philippines campaign, when exactly, I don't know (skins of these Mustangs depict black "PTO invasion stripes" on them, so invasion of Luzon - january '45 comes to mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).

c) Iwo Jima based Mustangs entered service right after the capture of the island so the first combat sortie probably occured between late february and early march '45 I guess?

d) we should also stuff Allison-powered Mustangs of 1 Air Command Group / 311th FBG flying over Burma somewhere in early '44

Well, that's all from top of my head. Now You got something to google for more details! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers - Art

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
Also note that they were asigned to the 5th, 7th, & 20th Af's. I know they had them in '43 in the CBI for sure. Gampa has talked about them escourting the B-24-C-109 tankers he was with hauling fuel acreos the hump to China From India. Which was nesacary due to the fact that the C-109 tankers were loaded to the gills with Av-gas and had NO defnsive armements what so ever. No ball turret, no guns at all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif
So if they got jumped it was thier @ss unless escourts were avlible

luftluuver
04-19-2006, 02:42 AM
Mustangs arrived in the CBI theatre in Sept 43 with the 311th FBG. The 528th FBS and 529th FBS used A-36s while the third squadron, the 530th FBS, had P-51As. A small number reached the 23rd FG about the same time. By the middle of '44 all 3 squadrons of the 311th FG (redesignated May '44)had Mustangs.

Bremspropeller
04-19-2006, 07:08 AM
It's a pity we don't have any early Mustang in game.

That would really bring some spice into MTO, ETO (Channel Front), PTO and CBI.

horseback
04-19-2006, 09:06 AM
Only if they get the FM and handling right--the Allison powered Mustangs are universally described as being much faster and better behaved than the P-40; less trim hungry, less torque-y and more forgiving than either the Warhawk or the Merlin powered Mustang.

Below 15,000 ft, it would be the 'class' of the Western Allies' inventory, other than the Spit XII or the Tempest, well into 1944.

cheers

horseback

Slickun
04-19-2006, 09:14 AM
P-38's served, briefly, in the ETO but were removed for MTO use, in conjunction with Operation Torch. They returned to operational use in the ETO in November of 44, the P-51 the next month (Dec).

Over the next several, the numbers of P-51's and P-38's was remarkably similar, finally evening out at 3 groups each before the P-51 numbers took off.

The US operated P-51A Mustangs against the Japanese for a time in the CBI. I would LOVE to have more information about all that. The little bit I have says the US pilots tried to dogfight the Japanese, and fared about like all the US types that tried it...poorly.