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View Full Version : Best buy? Joystick...



F19_Orheim
04-08-2006, 04:27 AM

F19_Orheim
04-08-2006, 04:34 AM
PS.. is the Combatstick and the Fighterstick essentially the same except the "button loadout"?

OD_79
04-08-2006, 04:45 AM
The Combat stick is much better than the fighter stick, I've had a variety of sticks in my time playing flight sims and the CH pro one is by far the best. It's solid, seems unbreakable, precise, and is very programable. Combined with the pedals It beats any twist grip stick hands down.

OD.

F19_Orheim
04-08-2006, 04:51 AM
combat BETTER than fighter???? Teh fighter is more expensive. I thought is was the same stick except the button layout.. more to do on the FS?`???

OD_79
04-08-2006, 04:59 AM
D'oh~! Sorry I'm thinking of the Flight Stick! Keep doing that! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

The Expensive one has a stupid amount of programability, something like 120 buttons due to three modes and shift buttons, combine it with the throttle and it goes up ewven more!

OD.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-08-2006, 05:16 AM
Hell if you have that kinda disposable income (these retail at over a 100 in Uk) I would go for the Fighter stick.

But to be honest I have a hard time parting with that kinda money for something that is constructed from plastic and is going to be subject to a real pounding.

PS I guess some one is going to pop on here in a minit and sugest that you go onto ebay and get yourself a second hand micro-soft force feedback 2 for about the same kinda cash

8 out of 10 cats prefer it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

F19_Orheim
04-08-2006, 05:17 AM
my thoughts exaclty and considering me never wanting to fly a jetsim there is really no need for that amount of choices... wwii and wwi is all for me..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif..

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-08-2006, 05:26 AM
Only trouble with the ebay route is that auctions on ms joystics can become a bit of a dogfight in itself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Either way good luck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

OD_79
04-08-2006, 06:26 AM
Well with the combat stick I have got about 20 buttons programmed onto it. It has it's uses, though I don't actually use 20, I have guns, bombs, rockets, comms, rudder trim, WEP and drop tanks on the stick.
The fact is though it may be made out of plastic it doesn't feel like the cheap stick you get from Logitech, Saitek or Microsoft, it has shown no signs of wearing out, and one of my squad mates has a second hand one which he has had for a year and still had plenty of use before that and again there is no sign or it wearing out. Wherease in the time I have had this stick I have had to replace sticks when I had Logitech ones, and my Saitek one had broken, and I'm not exactly hard on the sticks.
It really is worth the extra money, it depends on how often you are willing to keep paying to replace other sticks.

OD

RevvinUK
04-08-2006, 06:33 AM
If you're not going to be playing jet sims then I think the combatstick is all you really need, it's also worth rememberign that if you add a throttle unit later on down the line such as the Pro Throttle you can have up to 3 modes per button anyway with a further shifted function per 3 modes (4 modes actually with CMS script).

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-08-2006, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by OD_79:

The fact is though it may be made out of plastic it doesn't feel like the cheap stick you get from Logitech, Saitek or Microsoft, it has shown no signs of wearing out, and one of my squad mates has a second hand one which he has had for a year and still had plenty of use before that and again there is no sign or it wearing out. Wherease in the time I have had this stick I have had to replace sticks when I had Logitech ones, and my Saitek one had broken, and I'm not exactly hard on the sticks.
It really is worth the extra money, it depends on how often you are willing to keep paying to replace other sticks.

OD

A sound argument in favour sir and you have my vote http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

In fact it was the same argument I used to convince myself that the next time I broke my joystick I would buy one of these sticks (I have there pedals and they are the dogs ovoids)

Its just I have seen so much from Bearcat and Toad about how cool the ff2 stick is I wonder if there is something to it. Still you do get the garuntee with the ch stick and its kinda caveat emptor with ebay

this is in danger of becoming an opinions and a holes thread though so I will shut up now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

anasteksi
04-08-2006, 08:03 AM
saitek.. very cheap (i paid only 46"+shipping) and it works really great! Very accutare and you can adjust almost everything. It really feels like it's worth of 100". Absolutely best price/quality ratio.

Jaws2002
04-08-2006, 08:05 AM
Get the fighter stick. You need those buttons at finger tip. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

About the Ch throttle, i don't know. I have CH fighter stick + Ch pedals + X45 throttle. To me a throttle with no sliders is not an option. Not for this game anyway. There are so many things you need sliders for in this game. X45 or better X52 throttle are better in my opinion.

I got my second set of CH FS+CH pedals two months ago. I love them, but I never bought CH throttle just because it has no sliders.
I know about throttle quadrant but why would you buy two throttle units to achieve what should be done easy with one.

If Ch would make a new throttle that would offer both buttons and sliders (rotaries) in a nice ergonomic fighter like unit, I'd buy it right the way.

Vipez-
04-08-2006, 09:25 AM
CH Fighterstick. Accept no substitute, because nothing can substitute it.. Pricey, yes, but expect it to last for +10 years.. not something you can expect from products from Microsoft, Saitek or Logitech.. (my CH F-16 Combat Stick, gameport version, is ticking at 14 years old and still working.. simply amazing..)

F16_Neo
04-08-2006, 09:36 AM
I recently migrated from an X-52 to a Fighterstick.
The centering mechanism is very different from the Saiteks, but after a week or so it felt just great. The CH's are very light, probably even lighter than your X-45. The spring action is also very light. But very 'precise' feeling.
You could probably do without the extra hatswitch if you wont fly jet sims. You'll get an awesome stick nevertheless.

R_Target
04-08-2006, 10:07 AM
I have the Combatstick. Skipped the Fighterstick because I didn't need the extra hatswitch. It took me a while to get used to the light touch, but I really like it now.

OD_79
04-08-2006, 10:21 AM
Sorry if I came across confrontational, not what I intended! lol, whoops!
As for the sliders thing, what I have done is got all my old stick plugged in as well and use the throttles on them for sliders, I have elevator trim and prop pitch on them, as well as having all those other buttons as well. So even though they don't all work very well as sticks anymore they have their uses, though my desk is now pretty cluttered! lol.
I'll pot a picture, it will show how I have mounted my CH Stick as well, just adds to the feel for it.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j117/david_carter10/Joysticksetup002.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j117/david_carter10/Joysticksetup005.jpg

I know I know the cusion on it is a bit girly, but iw as all that was available! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But bsaically the stick is mounted using Cable ties to a wooden base, which in turn is mounted on two barckets mounted on a larger wooden base which fits on the chair so you sit on it, but it can be taken off when you're not using it. Works well with the Rudder pedals, and I much prefer it to having it at the side. (Could never get used to that after flying gliders!).

OD.

ComradeBadinov
04-08-2006, 10:59 AM
Get the Fighter Stick. It has the 3 modes of operation the Combat stick will not have, so that's three modes + the Shift button option that will give you 6 different throws for each button.
That's a no brainer.

F19_Orheim
04-08-2006, 11:12 AM
Thanx guys... appreciated. Very close vote, but please, keep voting.

The only reason really that I would go for the Saitek is for the FF and that I have heard good things about it. Still I am not sure I am that fond of FF, I have been using my OLD Logitech up til now (the one from -00 that weighs 10 kg http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif it adds to immersion sure but in my experience you loose precision. This huge device is really the only Logitech I have had that has hold up, all the rest has crumbled after 3 months.
Also I know that FF pretty much half the life expectancy in half on a JS, probably the reason why Saitek haven't made a HOTAS FF.
Also, having a twistgrip for no reason at all kind of puts me off.
In my opinion without really knowing, cons and pros:
+ Good Price
+ Good reviews
+ Precise
+ Force feedback
- Force feedback http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
- Twiststick ( no need of one)
- "plastic sensation"


A friend of mine is nice enough to lend me his CH Fighterstick over easter holidays so that I can try it out.. and if I like it I think I'll go for the Combatstick. Yes I know that the Fighterstick has more options but I feel that I really don't need them.


@Jaws, exactly what I thought about the CH throttle. I am more than satisfied with my X45 throttle and I might just consider to do the "Bearcat", i.e "merge" the X45 JS control with the throttle, thus making a very capable gamedevice with HUGE amounts of buttons (again who needs a Fighterstick).

CH makes a solid case, I have been using the rudders for almost 2 years now and the quality is top notch, not at all the "plastic" sensation that I get when trying the Logitechs and the Non-Hotas Saiteks.

@ ComradeBadinov, Jaws and Vipez. Sure the Fighterstick would be nice but with the Combatstick beeing really the same JS but without the amount of buttons, and 500 SEK cheaper at the moment, it really suits my budget a h*ll of a lot better.. and again, I think the buttons on the Combatstick, in addition to the X45 throttle (and maybe a merge with the X45 JS) would be quite enough.


@ F16_Svanen @MSN Messenger http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The Cougar??? are you crazy mate??? Didn't I tell you about my budget http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Would love to own the setup, but I have also heard that if you really want it the way it should be, you need to add an additional 100 $ for "hotting" it up with new gimbals.. hmm no way guys I am going THAT way. I started up with a small budget here and I am already considering a very pricey product http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Cougar? Sorry, not even on my maphttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RevvinUK
04-08-2006, 12:44 PM
OD_79> I have my Fighterstick mounted in a similar fashion. I found a set of hi-fi speaker stands that had a nice wide base on them. I've fastened mine to the stand with some sticky back velcro. Not the kind you find on clothing but the more industrial kind, it holds it very secure.

As for the lack of rotaries, I don't miss them. I've owned a Cougar and an X36 and found the rotaries on both to not give precise enough control so even on those two HOTAs I used a hat switch. Some users have mapped axis to a hatswitch but I prefer to just map the keys for a more precise control of trim.

OD_79
04-08-2006, 12:51 PM
That's why I find the other stick great, if you look again you'll see a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, and a Sidewinder 2 (that works fine I just hate it!) I just use the throttle levers on these for trim and prop pitch.
Recycling in action! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

OD.

Jaws2002
04-08-2006, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Revvin_UK:

As for the lack of rotaries, I don't miss them. I've owned a Cougar and an X36 and found the rotaries on both to not give precise enough control so even on those two HOTAs I used a hat switch. Some users have mapped axis to a hatswitch but I prefer to just map the keys for a more precise control of trim.


In this game makes a huge difference in mapping something like trim or prop pitch on sliders versus buttons. If you map prop-pitch on slider you adjust it in increments of 1%, with buttons it only works in 5% increments.
Trim. Since it has delayed action if you move a trim slider from neutral to full positive and then fast back to let's say 30% positive action, the trim will start going up and stop at 30%. If you do that with buttons the trim will go all the way up to 100% and then come back down to 30% positive position.

Any action you assign in the "hotas" area of the controls is faster and more precise then assigned on buttons.
This is how this game works.

SithSpeeder
04-08-2006, 02:14 PM
Seems like the European prices are significantly higher than here in the States. Can you get a buddy to buy you one in the States and ship it over? I would think that it would HAVE to be cheaper (but don't know for sure).

Amazon sells the Fighterstick for $110 (free shipping in US).

* _54th_SPeeder *

RevvinUK
04-08-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
In this game makes a huge difference in mapping something like trim or prop pitch on sliders versus buttons. If you map prop-pitch on slider you adjust it in increments of 1%, with buttons it only works in 5% increments.
Trim. Since it has delayed action if you move a trim slider from neutral to full positive and then fast back to let's say 30% positive action, the trim will start going up and stop at 30%. If you do that with buttons the trim will go all the way up to 100% and then come back down to 30% positive position.

Any action you assign in the "hotas" area of the controls is faster and more precise then assigned on buttons.
This is how this game works.

I know full well how this game works, I've played it since the original IL-2 was first released. My current profile for IL-2 consists of 22 physical axis, 14 of which I could use to map to trim control yet I still find a hat switch more precise and intuitive especialyl after the command delay was introduced.

F19_Orheim
04-08-2006, 03:14 PM
It's all about the exchange rate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif if the Swedish Krona gains over the US dollar it would be cheaper... 1 US $ is about 7,55 SEK... I remember when it was approx 5 SEK, in those days travelling to USA was mych cheaper http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ElAurens
04-08-2006, 03:44 PM
Fighterstick.

You would be suprised what you can do with all those buttons.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-08-2006, 08:03 PM
If there's an option, get the Fighterstick. You likely won't need the added functionality, but if you have it and don't use it, that's better than not having it and wanting it.

Me? I actually use a Flightstick Pro with throttle and pedals and have no problems with missing functions. I'm a lefty and can highly recommend this stick for prop-sims. Besides, with the throttle, I have the added modes that allows for more functions than I'll ever use.

It's THE MOST COMFORTABLE STICK I'VE EVER USED! and that means alot to me. Being a lefty in a right-handed world is tough and when you find something that works well, you stick with it.

TB

slipBall
04-09-2006, 10:16 AM
Ch fighterstik, because it's BAD, in a good way
I would also get the pro throttle with it, might as well go all out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
The price is usally closer to $100. U.S., say $115.

Vipez-
04-09-2006, 10:27 AM
You should check the prices from US stores, and order it from there.. though don't know about taxxes in Sweden, but in Finland we have to pay ridiculous taxxes when ordering sonething from States..

horseback
04-09-2006, 02:34 PM
I have a CombatStick, and I really love it. Generally speaking, when I'm flying Blue/LW, I literally have more buttons on my HOTAS than I need (with my Pro Throttle, I have 30 + the POV hat).

Sometimes I'd like more buttons, but the Fighterstick doesn't do it for me-there's something intrinsically wrong with having a four-way hat switch where your (single) cannon button should be.

cheers

horseback

Xiolablu3
04-09-2006, 02:52 PM
MS Force Feedback Pro - 2.99 off ebay http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

general_kalle
04-09-2006, 02:59 PM
i have played airplane games in over 5 years
and only had one stick EVER
saddly the force feedback isnt working anymore

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-10-2006, 02:08 AM
One quick slightly OT question but is the gameport 'flavour' of the MS forcefeedback stick as good as the USB variety? will it work with XP?

FluffyDucks
04-10-2006, 09:02 AM
No.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-10-2006, 09:31 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif yeah figures I think I will save up for an EPIC card instead lol

Xiolablu3
04-10-2006, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
One quick slightly OT question but is the gameport 'flavour' of the MS forcefeedback stick as good as the USB variety? will it work with XP?

Works fine, and is great.

Dunno what Fluffyducks is talking about.

I am loving the stick, I have never used a USB one so I dont know.

If you dont have a gameport, then buy a Soundblaster Live! off ebay, disable the sound features and just use it as a gameport. Much better and cheaper than a USB to Gameport adapter. 2nd hand SB Lives are about 2 now.

For a fiver for a FF stick, can you go wrong? I only intended to buy it to try out Force Feedback, but ended up using it as my main stick! I never spin out any more as I can feel the feedback and can tell how far to push the plane. Also you dont black out half as much. I would hate to go back to no FF now.