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View Full Version : New WWII film Tom Cruise + ME109s!



Plunkertx
11-08-2007, 10:40 AM
Thought you'd like to see this clip that talks about Tom Cruise's new film. Of particular interest are the aircraft shots...

http://www.apple.com/trailers/mgm/valkyrie/featurette/

Ruy Horta
11-08-2007, 11:22 AM
Looks impressive, hints of the superb HBO movie Conspiracy (but that may be due to Branagh).

Mixing Bf 109Gs and Bf 108s looked a bit risky, but this movie isn't about the Luftwaffe. About time they make a big production about the July 44 plot to kill Hitler, these men were unsung heroes of WW2. Perhaps Stauffenberg's action can be seen as treason (at times of total war), but he and most of his co-conspirators can never be seen as cowards or unpatriotic. The paradox which makes this story even more interesting.

Kudos to Tom Cruise for daring to step out of the mold, which is in a sense an act fitting the subject!

BfHeFwMe
11-08-2007, 11:27 AM
Hero's my @zz, they probably would have prolonged the war by throwing a little logic and talented effort into the mix. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

JG52Uther
11-08-2007, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Hero's my @zz, they probably would have prolonged the war by throwing a little logic and talented effort into the mix. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif This is probably pretty close to what would have happened! With Adolf gone they might have tried for a separate peace with the Western powers,but if that had not been successful,they would have gone on I think.

Friendly_flyer
11-08-2007, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Hero's my @zz,

And yet they died for what they believed in.

Divine-Wind
11-08-2007, 12:23 PM
Any war or military movie with Tom Cruise is not to be completely trusted.

waffen-79
11-08-2007, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Hero's my @zz,

And yet they died for what they believed in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Best way to die IMO

Ruy Horta
11-08-2007, 01:50 PM
People like Abwehr's Oberst Beck were feeding info to the allies from day one, the internal problem was always one of solving Hitler's popularity, the external issues were more complex. Casablanca sealed any real chance for any peace settlement (and there was no wish for one on the Allied side to start with - only a complete defeat would be acceptable).

Wurkeri
11-08-2007, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Ruy Horta:
Mixing Bf 109Gs and Bf 108s looked a bit risky...

The 109s looked like the EADS G-10 (ex Buchon) and a Buchon (just looked the 1080p version).

RegRag1977
11-08-2007, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Ruy Horta:
Mixing Bf 109Gs and Bf 108s looked a bit risky...

Risky, maybe, but not on this picture

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/RegRag1977/mmmmm.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
11-08-2007, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Any war or military movie with Tom Cruise is not to be completely trusted.

I see you're going for the gross understatement?

LEXX_Luthor
11-08-2007, 05:03 PM
A "Tom Cruise" version can't beat Night of the Generals.

Tab_Flettner
11-08-2007, 05:17 PM
A "Tom Cruise" version can't beat Night of the Generals.

Clearly, you have not seen the car chase at the end!

BfHeFwMe
11-08-2007, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Hero's my @zz,

And yet they died for what they believed in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So did Himmler and Goebbels.

HuninMunin
11-08-2007, 05:38 PM
Hypocrit bull$1te.
Himmler and Goebbels fled into death by suicide instead of facing consequences for their believings.
Stauffenberg and his companions died fighting against a regime that was ruining their country and killing millions of innocents - in additon they weren't only trying to save their country but their country's dignity aswell.
How else would you describe heroism?

DKoor
11-08-2007, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Hyppocrite bull$1te.
Himmler and Goebbels fled into death by suicide instead of facing consequences for their believings.
Stauffenberg and his companions died fighting against a regime that was ruining their country and killing millions of innocents - in additon they weren't only trying to save their country but their country's dignity aswell.
How else would you describe heroism? +1

Waldo.Pepper
11-08-2007, 06:09 PM
My thetan levels are either to high or too low to go to this movie.

leitmotiv
11-08-2007, 06:26 PM
My biggest grievance against the Great German General Staff, several of whose luminaries engineered the July 20th action, and other attempts on Hitler, was their remarkable bungling, and miscalculation. Clausewitz, the Great Moltke, and Schlieffen all probably rolled over in their graves at the clumsy operation. WWII was not the finest hour of the General Staff. I suspect the Great Moltke would have shot Hitler through the head himself rather than have sent a hapless cripple to do the job.

Daiichidoku
11-08-2007, 07:03 PM
Referring to Cruise in an interview for Süddeutsche Zeitung, Stauffenberg's eldest son Berthold, a retired German Bundeswehr general stated, "He should leave my father alone. He should go climb a mountain or go surfing in the Caribbean. I don't give a hoot as long as he keeps out of it."

anyhow, it may be a good movie

ill just hold my thumb up to block out maverick there

darkhorizon11
11-08-2007, 07:26 PM
Admit it... even if you hate it and think its stupid you'll see go see it!

It looks interesting... why does everybody assume that theres ALWAYS FLYBYS going on. Today they're rare I'm sure they were more common back then but still... it seems like a stamp of authenticity to have random airplanes buzzings around the airfield aimlessly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

HuninMunin
11-08-2007, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
My thetan levels are either to high or too low to go to this movie.

Whats a thetan?

BfHeFwMe
11-08-2007, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by HuninMunin:

Stauffenberg and his companions died fighting against a regime that was ruining their country and killing millions of innocents - in additon they weren't only trying to save their country but their country's dignity aswell.
How else would you describe heroism?

Huh? By wearing the uniforms and carrying out the duties of combat officers waging an unjust war for that same regime at the same time? Talk about hypocrisies, they helped bring the beast to life in the first place.

So he ate a bullet over a failed attempt. Which is really the more dedicated and fanatical to his cause, the man who gets another's bullet, or one who administers their own bullet over the cause.

Point being, he thought he could get away with it and the chances worth the risk. Otherwise these guys would have continued to play footsie as Nazis. While these other bad guys knew they weren't getting away alive, yet went ahead full blower with their cause. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

berg417448
11-08-2007, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by HuninMunin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
My thetan levels are either to high or too low to go to this movie.

Whats a thetan? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It is a scientology thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thetan

HuninMunin
11-08-2007, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:

Stauffenberg and his companions died fighting against a regime that was ruining their country and killing millions of innocents - in additon they weren't only trying to save their country but their country's dignity aswell.
How else would you describe heroism?

Huh? By wearing the uniforms and carrying out the duties of combat officers waging an unjust war for that same regime at the same time? Talk about hypocrisies, they helped bring the beast to life in the first place.

So he ate a bullet over a failed attempt. Which is really the more dedicated and fanatical to his cause, the man who gets another's bullet, or one who administers their own bullet over the cause.

Point being, he thought he could get away with it and the chances worth the risk. Otherwise these guys would have continued to play footsie as Nazis. While these other bad guys knew they weren't getting away alive, yet went ahead full blower with their cause. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would make more sense to discuss this if you actualy had a little more knowledge about the conspiracy and it's origin, especialy Stauffenberg himself.
But why not let him speak himself:

"Es ist Zeit, daß jetzt etwas getan wird. Derjenige allerdings, der etwas zu tun wagt, muß sich bewußt sein, daß er wohl als Verräter in die deutsche Geschichte eingehen wird. Unterläßt er jedoch die Tat, dann wäre er ein Verräter vor seinem eigenen Gewissen."

"It is time for somebody to act now.
This somebody, he who dares to do something, has to be in full concience that he will go down in history as a traitor.
But if he refrains from the deed, he was a traitor before his own concience."

– Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg

Or Henning von Tresckow, one of the key figures within the German resistance:

"Die Welt muss von dem größten Verbrecher aller Zeiten befreit werden."

"The world has to be liberated of this greatest criminal of all times."

"Wir werden unsere Untätigkeit vor dem Richterstuhl Gottes nie vertreten können. Wir haben nicht die Entschuldigung, Unteroffizier gewesen zu sein. Der Offizier steht – Fahneneid hin, Fahneneid her – über dem Befehl."

"We will never be able to defend our idleness before god's chair of judgement. We do not have the excuse of beeing corporals.
The officer stands - oath or no oath - above the order."

In response to captain Stahlberg who asked wether Tresckow saw a chance for the coup to be succesfull:
"Mit größter Wahrscheinlichkeit wird alles schiefgehen".
Stahlberg: "Und trotzdem...?
"Ja,trotzdem."

"It is likely that all will go wrong."
Stahlberg: "And still...?"
"Yes, still."

"Der sittliche Wert eines Menschen beginnt erst dort, wo er bereit ist, für seine überzeugung sein Leben hinzugeben."

"The moral value of a human beeing first beginns at the point were he is ready to give his life for his convincement."

So how can you not see the difference between a fallen might unable to life with their shame and therefor escaping the world and men who were ready to give their lifes for a cause of pure moral fully knowing that their efforts may be futile?

BfHeFwMe
11-08-2007, 09:38 PM
Ha, words don't speak nearly as loud as actions. He set the bomb fuse and left, seeking to save his own butt. If he'd been truly dedicated to a cause, he would have stayed to ensure the job got done, he would have used a switch instead of a questionable timer, luck, or elaborate escape attempt.

Someone who really thought he was acting for such a huge cause as "saving his beloved nation and peoples" would have hurled himself and pulled the trigger right in Adolph's face, thus ensuring the job got done.

These guys were half hearted, more seeking their own interests, than any national. Proof is in the way they acted. At that level you've got to believe, and have a actual plan, not just whisper in the shadows. There really was no plan, no power to take and seize control, just a dumb hope that someone better might step in. That was a fantasy, very doubtful.

Most of those rounded up and shot had no connection with the coup attempt any way. Don't be misled by the numbers. Nazis always used any excuse to cull out enemies and rivals, guilty or not, it didn't matter.

Had this act formed and taken place in early 43 or prior one could see some heroism. Seems like they recognized their own heads were going to roll also as losing high ranking Nazis.

If any hero's and resistance are to be honored, it should be the 8 million Germans liquidated in the camps. These people voted with their lives exposing the regime to all Germans for the evil it really was. Most of these never cowered in the dark corners or played footsie with the party. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

One must seriously question the motives at this time of losing at war, and the guilt the true heroic Germans had already sprinkled on all military officers with their innocent blood. Not to mention the millions of non Germans. These guys weren't heros, they were scrambling to save their own @zzez.

HuninMunin
11-08-2007, 11:16 PM
You voice a big opinion for someone who obviously doesn't even have a clue of what happened within the german resistance or when or how...
Your statement that Stauffenberg should have blown himself with Hitler disqualifies all of your trashtalk as the quick mouth, no brain "history channel" view it is.

Bet you haven't even heard the name Stauffenberg before this movie came up.
Go read something on the topic and come back.
What you do here is splattering missinformed and unqualified jabbering onto an allready complicated topic.
So do me a favor and get some infos before you post.

HotelBushranger
11-09-2007, 01:14 AM
Yep, I agree with Hunin here, sounds like you know squat. Stauffenberg left, to catch a plane to straight away start Valkyrie (it was Beck who was to be President and Goerdeler to be Chancellor) and to start negotiations with the west as soon as possible. Considering how few people there were in the resistance, and given their high positions, they would have been needed afterwards to help rebuild Germany, which is why Stauffenberg did not stay with the bomb.

RegRag1977
11-09-2007, 02:04 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:

Someone who really thought he was acting for such a huge cause as "saving his beloved nation and peoples" would have hurled himself and pulled the trigger right in Adolph's face, thus ensuring the job got done.


Yeah, in the Hollywood way i suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:

"These guys weren't heroes, they were scrambling to save their own @zzez."

Yes, that's it...After being wounded in Afrika and losing two fingers and an eye his car strafed by an allied A/C, Stauffenberg then decided to have some vacation (save his ***), participating in an action against a dictator in a "secure" society of fear http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

alert_1
11-09-2007, 02:33 AM
____________________
Best way to die IMO
____________________

Youmight be uninformed about how they died...

Von_Rat
11-09-2007, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Yep, I agree with Hunin here, sounds like you know squat. Stauffenberg left, to catch a plane to straight away start Valkyrie (it was Beck who was to be President and Goerdeler to be Chancellor) and to start negotiations with the west as soon as possible. Considering how few people there were in the resistance, and given their high positions, they would have been needed afterwards to help rebuild Germany, which is why Stauffenberg did not stay with the bomb.

i agree with hunnin too.

and you have a good point in that Stauffenberg was needed for more than just killing hitler.

i'd like to add that imo Stauffenberg and the others had very little to fear personnally from losing the war. they werent going to be hung for warcrimes they didnt commit. therefore they risked their lives not to avoid retribution, but simply because it was the right thing to do.

its a shame however that they couldnt of suceeded earlier.

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2007, 05:02 AM
Really sticks in my craw when people who don`t know what they`re talking about insist on talking about it!

BfHeFwMe
11-09-2007, 06:00 AM
If he was needed so badly why not send someone else. Face the truth, there really wasn't any resistance worth noting. Your clinging to fantasy, ten to twenty people within a government aren't a resistance.

How exactly did these people expect to grab power, it was smoke and a pipe dream. Just a minor blurb as a footnote in history. Truth is there never was an organized or real resistance. Resistance is something the French and Poles did.

LoL @ Seafire, got something to say on the subject noob?

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:


LoL @ Seafire, got something to say on the subject noob?

ohhh, that's gonna leave a mark. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Good thread.

PB0_shadow
11-09-2007, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
If he was needed so badly why not send someone else. Face the truth, there really wasn't any resistance worth noting. Your clinging to fantasy, ten to twenty people within a government aren't a resistance.

How exactly did these people expect to grab power, it was smoke and a pipe dream. Just a minor blurb as a footnote in history. Truth is there never was an organized or real resistance. Resistance is something the French and Poles did.

LoL @ Seafire, got something to say on the subject noob?

Send someone else? and who? You think anybody was welcomed at this kind of meetings?
Besides, all invited had to leave their weapons before entering the room, so a simple bullet to Hitler's head as mentionned above, would not have been that simple.

And there were many other attempts. This one is the most famous because it came really close to achieving its goal.

There was a German resistance. Might be less known or organized than the Polish, French or Yugoslav ones, but it did exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_movement


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Orchestra_%28spy%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenstrasse_protest

Bewolf
11-09-2007, 06:49 AM
Just to throw that in, there actually 17(!) planned attempts to kill Hitler, both from civilians and the army.

It's especially noteworthy that in the later stages of the war, the conspirators could not have any hope of help from the allied side, as these wanted a complete german surrender. They tried nevertheless. One could say, they are the perfect examples of patriots, trying to save the country from its government. And they gave their lives.

That has to be saluted.

Bearcat99
11-09-2007, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Ha, words don't speak nearly as loud as actions. He set the bomb fuse and left, seeking to save his own butt. If he'd been truly dedicated to a cause, he would have stayed to ensure the job got done, he would have used a switch instead of a questionable timer, luck, or elaborate escape attempt.

Someone who really thought he was acting for such a huge cause as "saving his beloved nation and peoples" would have hurled himself and pulled the trigger right in Adolph's face, thus ensuring the job got done.

These guys were half hearted, more seeking their own interests, than any national. Proof is in the way they acted. At that level you've got to believe, and have a actual plan, not just whisper in the shadows. There really was no plan, no power to take and seize control, just a dumb hope that someone better might step in. That was a fantasy, very doubtful.

Most of those rounded up and shot had no connection with the coup attempt any way. Don't be misled by the numbers. Nazis always used any excuse to cull out enemies and rivals, guilty or not, it didn't matter.

Had this act formed and taken place in early 43 or prior one could see some heroism. Seems like they recognized their own heads were going to roll also as losing high ranking Nazis.

If any hero's and resistance are to be honored, it should be the 8 million Germans liquidated in the camps. These people voted with their lives exposing the regime to all Germans for the evil it really was. Most of these never cowered in the dark corners or played footsie with the party. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

One must seriously question the motives at this time of losing at war, and the guilt the true heroic Germans had already sprinkled on all military officers with their innocent blood. Not to mention the millions of non Germans. These guys weren't heros, they were scrambling to save their own @zzez.

You mean like the homicide bombers in the sandbox? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif I see you still shoot from the lip... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif



Originally posted by HuninMunin:
You voice a big opinion for someone who obviously doesn't even have a clue of what happened within the german resistance or when or how...
Your statement that Stauffenberg should have blown himself with Hitler disqualifies all of your trashtalk as the quick mouth, no brain "history channel" view it is.

Bet you haven't even heard the name Stauffenberg before this movie came up.
Go read something on the topic and come back.
What you do here is splattering missinformed and unqualified jabbering onto an allready complicated topic.
So do me a favor and get some infos before you post.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Divine-Wind
11-09-2007, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
My thetan levels are either to high or too low to go to this movie.

Whats a thetan? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It is a scientology thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thetan </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Aha, now I get it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif ROFL Waldo!

JG4_Helofly
11-09-2007, 09:15 AM
BTW. I heard a story about an officer who tried to kill Hitler with explosives in his pokets. He was supposed to show Hitler some captured guns from the east front. Unfortunately Hitler left too early before the bombs were supposed to explode.

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2007, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Megile:


ohhh, that's gonna leave a mark. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif




Strange, but it don`t. Not even slightly. Why would it? I wasn`t even going to respond, but you seem to think what he said clever. You think that`s a cool comment? Well, guess I know now what to use when I need to slap you back in your place one day. As will inevitably happen.

DKoor
11-09-2007, 10:11 AM
I'm not Megiles lawyer but he didn't meant to say that's cool IMO...... I see his post as a little irony diversion.....

Anyhow.

Where are those 109s?

Because I dislike where this thread is going.

Deedsundone
11-09-2007, 10:25 AM
But the most important question...will they speak english or english with german accent? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Deedsundone:
But the most important question...will they speak english or english with german accent? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

This is the question on everyone's lips.

I think they will speak ze german.

Divine-Wind
11-09-2007, 10:53 AM
It is obvius zey vil spek EuroEnglish! ZE DREM VIL *** TRU!

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 11:05 AM
With Eddie Izzard on the cast list they'll be speaking camper than a row of pink tents. Be sure.

BTW did they find and sentence the Phantom Windbreaker of Old Berlin Town yet? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

ploughman
11-09-2007, 11:09 AM
Vot? Ein Farter?

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 11:15 AM
Ja, Ja - der Cruizmeister hat gekallt einer moments silenzmachen befor das filmenshootenstart fur das remembrantz und halb weg thru hat som misterie perzon gefarten. Der Cruizemeitster war nicht smilen und hat blowndergasket in einer Hitleresque tantrum. 'Kopfs will rollen!' er hat gescreamt. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


Es was reportened in einer alten thread hier.

BfHeFwMe
11-09-2007, 11:15 AM
So go ahead an praise this third Reich officer and warrior. I'm sure he didn't ever take any part in killing of allied personal. Surely he acted for the alliance, had no doubts they were bluffing with their unconditional surrender ultimatum against the Reich.

He acted as a national, no doubt, but your naive to the extreme if you think they had peace as their intentions.

Had the allies known of this plan, they themselves would have shot him. Had they managed to wrangle control of Germany, they would have hung in Goering's place after the fight was finished.

I can understand a Germans attempt to create a hero out of the rabble of his old Reich government, were all the real hero's were, arrested, dead, or being killed, but you Bearcat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

HuninMunin
11-09-2007, 11:17 AM
That is because you post incredibly dumb and uneducated things.
I even picked out some quotes and translated them for you to understand the motive of this resistance...
But since you seem to be to ignorant to comprehend the sentence "We have to free the world of this greates criminal of all time" well then... continue to live in your dream world were everything is black and white and you never have to deal with the mental fracture thats caused by looking at history with a little common sense.

I don't need to make heroes of the german resistance - they were.
And believe it or not, the facts around this resistance are well known beyond the borders of Germany by those who are interested in history.
But of course.... theres always the one who never heard of it... only that most people without knowledge have the decency not to comment.

But no, you don't even read the most simple article ( say on Wiki for example ) to enlighten yourself but come back and accuse me of an agenda.

BfHeFwMe
11-09-2007, 11:28 AM
Most people about to take this kind of action always lay down the heavy words to justify it within. Nothing abnormal about that.

Hey, I'm not saying he was a bad guy, nor it was something awful to kill hitler, more power to em. I just question the real motives, why they did it.

As far as the smirks about gutless bombers, didn't this guy plant an IED and run. So what was your point again?

La7_brook
11-09-2007, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
So go ahead an praise this third Reich officer and warrior. I'm sure he didn't ever take any part in killing of allied personal. Surely he acted for the alliance, had no doubts they were bluffing with their unconditional surrender ultimatum against the Reich.

He acted as a national, no doubt, but your naive to the extreme if you think they had peace as their intentions.

Had the allies known of this plan, they themselves would have shot him. Had they managed to wrangle control of Germany, they would have hung in Goering's place after the fight was finished.

I can understand a Germans attempt to create a hero out of the rabble of his old Reich government, were all the real hero's were, arrested, dead, or being killed, but you Bearcat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Right on dude ,we should all so ban films on romans , vikings, british well got alot too answer for too slave trade etc , on cowboys too they shot too many indians ,etc , they storys in history that will be told like it or not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

HuninMunin
11-09-2007, 11:33 AM
How often...
Go do the reading.
As soon as you are able to talk about Walküre in detail we can have a discussion.
As long as you think that Stauffenberg was the central point and the plot was about assasinating Hitler.... no comment.

BfHeFwMe
11-09-2007, 11:35 AM
I believe I've been quite specific in my assertions. They may be uneducated, but I have yet to see you pick a few and debunk them.

HuninMunin
11-09-2007, 11:44 AM
Ain't my job to ashure that you are able to build an opinion.
You go and learn about the facts and then tell on wich you base your postings on.

I've given you enough examples that indicate that your view is wrong, if you don't care stop spreading your holdless assumptions.

What you do is trolling, posting absolute nonsense whilst in the same time admitting that you don't have a clue.

ploughman
11-09-2007, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
Ja, Ja - der Cruizmeister hat gekallt einer moments silenzmachen befor das filmenshootenstart fur das remembrantz und halb weg thru hat som misterie perzon gefarten. Der Cruizemeitster war nicht smilen und hat blowndergasket in einer Hitleresque tantrum. 'Kopfs will rollen!' er hat gescreamt. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


Es was reportened in einer alten thread hier.

Ah-a! Der buttenbloewer eskepaden. Ich rememberuen der alten thredden, der reporten von der Cruizmeister hurlen sein dummy aus der prammen.

Und der reperkussionz ver?

One13
11-09-2007, 11:53 AM
What ever people think the efforts of the German Resistance were too little and too late to have any effect on the result of the war or on what Germany would be like after the war.

Even if they had succeded the results would have been the same.

Too little too late.

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:


Ah-a! Der buttenbloewer eskepaden. Ich rememberuen der alten thredden, der reporten von der Cruizmeister hurlen sein dummy aus der prammen.

Und der reperkussionz ver?

Der PhantomFarter vas nichts gefounden.

DuxCorvan
11-09-2007, 12:01 PM
Taht bloke was teh bomb! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Divine-Wind
11-09-2007, 12:03 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2007, 12:03 PM
von Stauffenberg was a pillowbiter. Excellent casting on this film

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Taht bloke was teh bomb! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

The spaniard returns.

waffen-79
11-09-2007, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
So go ahead an praise this third Reich officer and warrior. I'm sure he didn't ever take any part in killing of allied personal. Surely he acted for the alliance, had no doubts they were bluffing with their unconditional surrender ultimatum against the Reich.

He acted as a national, no doubt, but your naive to the extreme if you think they had peace as their intentions.

Had the allies known of this plan, they themselves would have shot him. Had they managed to wrangle control of Germany, they would have hung in Goering's place after the fight was finished.

I can understand a Germans attempt to create a hero out of the rabble of his old Reich government, were all the real hero's were, arrested, dead, or being killed, but you Bearcat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

you nice? ...sure no

Daiichidoku
11-09-2007, 12:54 PM
EIN VOLK EIN REICH EIN MEGILE

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 01:01 PM
Karetaken mit der slogans Herr Daiichimeister - der Leitmeister war gebannt fur zimilar typenmachen. Der walls hier haben hearenapparat liken der elephanten.

ploughman
11-09-2007, 01:07 PM
Ja, achtung von der slogans. Zwei wochen sind sicher.

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
EIN VOLK EIN REICH EIN MEGILE

Ich bin der UberFührer von Die OobeeAnimalHausen.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/gm_hitler.gif

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
EIN VOLK EIN REICH EIN MEGILE

Ich bin der UberFührer von Die OobeeAnimalHausen.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/gm_hitler.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Wir haben proofs! Hier ist Megile in der Oobikrimboparty last jahr.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/LF2/capture_22072007_213433.jpg

ploughman
11-09-2007, 01:24 PM
Der blonden mitt der zwei shirtenperten?

Divine-Wind
11-09-2007, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
EIN VOLK EIN REICH EIN MEGILE
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

slipBall
11-09-2007, 01:31 PM
Hausaufgaben http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Der blonden mitt der zwei shirtenperten?

Ich bin gethinken das ist Fraulein Kleaneasy.

slipBall
11-09-2007, 01:39 PM
Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän!...for sure

Airmail109
11-09-2007, 01:40 PM
Why did they never just use a Sniper rifle? Bombs are unreliable, indiscriminate and leave a good trail.

Would have been a lot less incriminating, especially If they used a French/British caliber firearm

Daiichidoku
11-09-2007, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Der blonden mitt der zwei shirtenperten?

Ich bin gethinken das ist Fraulein Kleaneasy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

achtung! seien Sie ruhig! oder dies flaumige Enten berichtet Ihnen die Heulsusepolizei

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Ja,Ja Aimailmeister! Ist liken der Batmensch parts wenn Der Joker kommt up mit elaboraten Kontraption und todtmachen plans fur der kapturen KapenKrusader wenn ein shootenquicken ist besser.

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:


achtung! seien Sie ruhig! oder dies flaumige Enten berichtet Ihnen die Heulsusepolizei

sprechen ze german bitter.

Daiichidoku
11-09-2007, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Why did they never just use a Sniper rifle? Bombs are unreliable, indiscriminate and leave a good trail.

Would have been a lot less incriminating, especially If they used a French/British caliber firearm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/canadiansniperrifle.jpg

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 01:50 PM
Achtung Herr Daiichimeister! Arschensigs sind verboten! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Daiichidoku
11-09-2007, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:


achtung! seien Sie ruhig! oder dies flaumige Enten berichtet Ihnen die Heulsusepolizei

sprechen ze german bitter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


überhaupt nicht Sir bin ich das suckage am babelfish Gebrauch des Deutschen....i, obwohl meine Eltern geboren waren und angehoben in Berlin niemand Fähigkeiten mehr behaupten kann, nun da wir im Alter von interentischon leben, mein Führer errr furor

Daiichidoku
11-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
Achtung Herr Daiichimeister! Arschensigs sind verboten! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

was? der ist nicht Arsch, der ist der Mond!

ploughman
11-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Ja, der zwei butten cheeken en der bombardeir-staseeunen es verbottum, Reichs Modden Dekree 24.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-09-2007, 02:01 PM
Aber kleanencheeks! Nicht der Fantomfarter von der Cruisemeisters filmentantrum.

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 02:03 PM
ich gethinkin der daiichimeister ist der fantomfarter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

und, Innen uber der locken.

JG6_Oddball
11-09-2007, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Hero's my @zz, they probably would have prolonged the war by throwing a little logic and talented effort into the mix. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

BINGO!!!!! you win a cookie http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The allies did not want hitler dead...because then the guys who KNEW what they were doing would have taken over sueing for peace or just prolonging the war.

S!

waffen-79
11-09-2007, 02:13 PM
lmao FAKE german FTW

MEGILE
11-09-2007, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
I'm not Megiles lawyer but he didn't meant to say that's cool IMO...... I see his post as a little irony diversion.....



Dkoor, you know me too well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Daiichidoku
11-09-2007, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
ich gethinkin der daiichimeister ist der fantomfarter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

und, Innen uber der locken.

er, das es schmelzen, behandelt ihm



irgendwie sorgen Sie nicht sich um eine locken, sie verriegeln nur die ernsten, relevanten Themen hier



UBI UBER ALLES!

HuninMunin
11-09-2007, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Why did they never just use a Sniper rifle? Bombs are unreliable, indiscriminate and leave a good trail.

Would have been a lot less incriminating, especially If they used a French/British caliber firearm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/canadiansniperrifle.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

HuninMunin
11-09-2007, 02:36 PM
Ach ja...

Ihr habt doch alle gewaltigst einen an der Waffel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

BfHeFwMe
11-09-2007, 03:14 PM
Anyone else find the irony in the casting of this movie? If I were German, I'd be outraged. Here you have a guy who voluntarily submits himself deep into a cult with militaristic overtones based on personality. And he gets a free pass playing a role of a guy who gave his life in the end for the complete opposing view. An attempt to eliminate the person itself behind the cult.

How much more ironic can you get? You ought to throw this guy out of Germany if you have any respect for the count.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=elw9e9LJIwQ

Bewolf
11-09-2007, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Anyone else find the irony in the casting of this movie? If I were German, I'd be outraged. Here you have a guy who voluntarily submits himself deep into a cult with militaristic overtones based on personality. And he gets a free pass playing a role of a guy who gave his life in the end for the complete opposing view. An attempt to eliminate the person itself behind the cult.

How much more ironic can you get? You ought to throw this guy out of Germany if you have any respect for the count.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=elw9e9LJIwQ


Funningly enough that was the public opinion upon hearing Cruise was gonna play Staufenberg. It was, and still largely is, seen as something as a disgrace. But then we'd not be any better to what we despise if we acted like that, yes?

HuninMunin
11-09-2007, 03:29 PM
Thanks for again clarifiying your troll status.

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270915355_c8b9ae48e6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2007, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Anyone else find the irony in the casting of this movie? If I were German, I'd be outraged. Here you have a guy who voluntarily submits himself deep into a cult with militaristic overtones based on personality. And he gets a free pass playing a role of a guy who gave his life in the end for the complete opposing view. An attempt to eliminate the person itself behind the cult.

How much more ironic can you get? You ought to throw this guy out of Germany if you have any respect for the count.



Um?

It's a movie. Tom Cruise lives in a free society where that sawed off little lunatic can make a living doing anything legal that he wants to. Is there a problem with that?? Didn't think so. 'bye!~

Bearcat99
11-09-2007, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
So go ahead an praise this third Reich officer and warrior. I'm sure he didn't ever take any part in killing of allied personal. Surely he acted for the alliance, had no doubts they were bluffing with their unconditional surrender ultimatum against the Reich.

He acted as a national, no doubt, but your naive to the extreme if you think they had peace as their intentions.

Had the allies known of this plan, they themselves would have shot him. Had they managed to wrangle control of Germany, they would have hung in Goering's place after the fight was finished.

I can understand a Germans attempt to create a hero out of the rabble of his old Reich government, were all the real hero's were, arrested, dead, or being killed, but you Bearcat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Where did I make anyone a hero? It is a mooooovviiiee.. I'll say it again real slow so you can understand it... a moooovie.

I thought Downfall was an EXCELLENT film... that doesnt make me a fan of the 3rd Reich.. Geeze ... some of the stufff that comes off your keyboard is just so.... incredible ... it really scares the h@ll out of me to think that this stuff actually comes from your brain....

MEGILE
11-10-2007, 06:53 AM
The hoff says: Ich liebe d ick

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/culturevulture/archives/hoff.jpg

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-10-2007, 07:08 AM
Der Hoffmeister shood haven das part begotten in der filmenproduktion das der Cruisemeister willen einer grosser hammyballzuppen gemachen. Der Fantomfarter war thinken zwiess mit Der Hoffmeister in kontrol. Und he haben einer talkenkubelwagen fur der schnell gataway machen.

Boandlgramer
11-10-2007, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
Der Hoffmeister shood haven das part begotten in der filmenproduktion das der Cruisemeister willen einer grosser hammyballzuppen gemachen. Der Fantomfarter war thinken zwiess mit Der Hoffmeister in kontrol. Und he haben einer talkenkubelwagen fur der schnell gataway machen.

Did you hide any humor in your text ?

BillyTheKid_22
11-10-2007, 12:45 PM
http://www.firstshowing.net/img/cruise-valkyrie-2.jpg



http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/images/highres_30002726%20copy.jpg



Col. Claus von Stauffenberg

Died: July 21, 1944 (age 36)

ploughman
11-10-2007, 12:48 PM
Hey, in addition to the eye patch, is Tom's hand showing the injury Stauffenberg received in the Western Desert?

cawimmer430
11-10-2007, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
there really wasn't any resistance worth noting. Your clinging to fantasy, ten to twenty people within a government aren't a resistance.



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Wow. Just wow. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Ever hear of the "White Rose"? These guys were mainly composed of German students (thousands) who were against the war and Nazism.

I'm sure there were many Germans who also didn't want a war. But try speaking out in a police state like Nazi Germany, where you can't even trust your own neighbours or even your own children for fear of being denounced. It's best to shut up and say nothing in this case.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-10-2007, 01:20 PM
Thousands?

The second link gives a far more detailed account of life under the Nazi regime.

http://www.katjasdacha.com/whiterose/index.html

http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/white-rose1.htm

ultraHun
11-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Thousands?

The second link gives a far more detailed account of life under the Nazi regime.

http://www.katjasdacha.com/whiterose/index.html

http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/white-rose1.htm

Not in this milieu. Catholic or bourgeois people might have abhorred nazism, but they had no secret network in place to form resistance. The catholic church might have had, but it choose against it.

Read "In Hitler's Germany" by Bernt Engelmann. He is focusing on the commnunist and labour union resistance which was more active, although not bent on directly overthrowing the regime as it knew or had it ordered by Stalin that this was out of scope.

The tragedy of all German resistance lies in the same reason that doomed the Weimar republic: the various fractions of German society were too estranged and hostile too each other to built up a working free state. In principle, every of them would not have hesitated to enforce its will on the others. But none was strong enough for that, so in the end the mob and the deranged claimed the flag.

ultraHun
11-10-2007, 02:23 PM
I should add that "mob and deranged" means the very core of the Nazi party and its uniformed gangs, not everybody who became party member or voted for them. But that's another discussion.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Somebody should make a pilot skin out of that stern-I'm-really-a-tough-guy pic of Cruise as Stauffenberg

RegRag1977
11-10-2007, 03:19 PM
"Organized resistance was practically impossible. One could not speak openly, even with close friends, never knowing whether they might not be Nazi spies or collaborators. So well organized was the control and surveillance by the party, that each city block had a party functionary assigned to spy on his neighbors. This "Blockwart" was ostensibly responsible for the well being of the residents of his city block, but in reality had to monitor, record and report on activities, conversations, and remarks of each person, as well as on their associations. Even the privacy of one's home was not assured: a tea cozy or pillows placed over the telephone were popular precautions against eavesdropping by bugging. Nor did one ever know what mail had been secretly opened."

extract from the link posted by Low Flyer MkIX
http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/white-rose1.htm

In such conditions i'm pretty sure that all we people in the allied countries (no matter if american or british, french, russian or chinese) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif which are genetically predisposed to be right as we know, would have been heroes!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif You know, germans, they had something special, yes we can sleep well now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif