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Frenchminem
05-13-2005, 02:28 AM
Hi, i'm reading everyhere that the X45 is the best joystick... (and when I look at it... it's so ugly, and look more like star wars joystick, than WII stick... and the buttons seems the same in all others products... nearly... )(wow... sayin' this, i might get all the community on my 6' to shot me down)

I have actually a Sidewinder force feedback pro, and regarding to the trustmaster of a friend... (when I tr ro calibrate It, I just can't draw a square, and reach all the corners...)
so, what 's better on a X45... the touch of the stick??? the precision??? he's less borring for the hand... (no pain after 3 hours of force feedback??)

AND WHY THOSE STUPID INDUSTRIAL DON'T RELEASE SOME WWII STYLED JOYSTICK/THROTTLE???
I found a F16 kit replica... in steel... and blablabla... but in my opinion, most part of the flyer are WWII adict... (not funny to drop rockets without seeing ennemies...)
i'm not addicted by kid's stick looking... with plasitc, and lights, and super blaster button...

LuckyBoy1
05-13-2005, 02:31 AM
The best thing about an X-45 stick is the day you give it up for some CH gear.

Frenchminem
05-13-2005, 02:34 AM
hey man! you're really fast... did u beggin to answer before I released my post??
just got the time to refresh.. and 1 reply yet!!!
what is CH gear?

Frenchminem
05-13-2005, 02:36 AM
hmm... it should be the COUGAR HOTAS... the F-16 replica I spoke about... (still too modern for my taste.. and despite the fact it looks true, cuz, in steel... and ... is it really great to use!??)

TooCooL34
05-13-2005, 02:45 AM
The short & best advice I can give you is..
"Just don't buy X-45."

In addition, CH Fighterstick, combatstick is not Cougar(by Thrustmaster). Try www.chproducts.com (http://www.chproducts.com)

LuckyBoy1
05-13-2005, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by Frenchminem:
hey man! you're really fast... did u beggin to answer before I released my post??
just got the time to refresh.. and 1 reply yet!!!
what is CH gear?

I'm fast?... my wife's been talking to you! I'm telling Mom!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

What is CH gear?

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/index.html

I would suggest a CH Fighterstick and pedals. The drawback to the CH stuff is no twisty rudder thingy, but in the end, it's nnot a drawback because you get much better control. Also, CH stuff lasts and lasts and will react the same way each and every time.

As far as it being realistic looking for a WWII stick?... well, try and remember, you are playing this on a home computer.

Frenchminem
05-13-2005, 03:12 AM
i've been looking the website.. and CH products looks like old plastic stuff...
at least , no space design, but no design a all... the pedals are not adapted for 150kg people!!?? i got quiet the same on my first car, at 5 yo... you know, the one you got to push to go on...

LuckyBoy1
05-13-2005, 03:24 AM
150 KG's? Wow! well, last I heard, you will be in a sitting position when using them, so I don't see how the biggy sized thingy is a factor here.

Plastic? Yes, it is made of plastic. If you handle it hard enough to break it, your hands will need hospital care for the effort. The switches are not heavy duty switches in the sense that they feel heavy. They are medical grade switches though and very high quality. As a result, the CH products tend to last and last and even more importantly, they react the same way over and over to a given input.

I hear the Cougar thingy's are made of steel... I have no personal experience with them, but I've heard good things about them except for the cost and weight.

Frenchminem
05-13-2005, 03:31 AM
ok... (i might been hard with CH... but it's the impression I got when looking the website...)
i 've handled the couger in steel, in demonstration in a supermarker , and, first, it's cold... and everythink look like being in steel... the axis move nice...
but all the buttons are moving, like if they were bad fixed... strange ...
and it was not linked to any computer, so couldn't test it really...

Abbuzze
05-13-2005, 04:06 AM
I like this threads... especially the tip to buy a twice expansive CH stick without a throttle...

But of course you can also buy a CH throttle... both stick and throttle, 149$+149$, ok wou will get it cheaper somewhere found them in an onlineshop both for 280$ or EURO, or getting a, I have to admit ugly, X52 for 90"/$.

This tips sound like: Bah don´t buy a BMW you need a Porsche! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Most of the time I´m flying I look at the screen. That´s the sense of a HOTAS system, not to look at it. If you want to build a Cockpit take a CH, it looks better.

Beside, I wouldn´t buy a X45, it has potentiometer, which loosing precision after some time, the X52 is using magnetos as sensors.

If you have enough money for a CH take one, if you are interested in a very good and high precision stick, and you don´t care about optic take a Saitek X52.

Frenchminem
05-13-2005, 04:26 AM
thanx for all the opinions??? and is there somebody using Sidewinder force feecback pro in here??

LuckyBoy1
05-13-2005, 04:45 AM
You do NOT need a CH throttle to start out with. You can assign the left slide wheel in the Fighterstick to the throttle duty.

JunkoIfurita
05-13-2005, 04:54 AM
My advice? Stick with your Sidewinder.

There are PLENTY of people using MS Sidewinder FFB2 sticks around (I use an X52, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the old ones for what they are), and they spend just as much time shooting me out of the sky than the people who had to mortgage their children for the cash to get some CH gear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The main reason more people don't use the Sidewinder sticks is because they've been discontinued - MS no longer produces sticks at all. Since they all break down eventually (particularly the trigger: a weak aspect, but I hear Crash got a bunch or replacements in bulk - maybe you could talk to him?)

The big thing you're getting with CH, Saitek or TM Cougar is a bucketload of buttons. Although CH quality IS very high, you pay for it, and it's not necessary on the base level.

If you want a nice heavy set of rudder pedals, I believe there is a small German company who produce REALLY heavy duty metal USB rudder pedals for a decent price. Can someone elaborate on this?

Being in France, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting your hands on some of these to complement your MS FFB2.

----

horseback
05-13-2005, 09:51 AM
I graduated from a M$ Sidewinder Precision2 to CH Combatstick and Pro Pedals about two years ago, adding the Pro Throttle a few months later. I am not a small man either (100kg), and I've been known to be 'enthusiastic' while flying FB/AEP/PF.

I average about 10-15 hours of virtual flight time a week. The CH gear have held up quite well-yes, it is plastic, but it is very heavy duty plastic, and I would not be surprised if I were still using the same joystick and pedals in 10 years. CH update their software fairly often, and it is quite good, IMO.

About that desire for a WWII type stick and throttle, I suspect that it will be hard to find exactly what you are looking for, since too many of the people who market such things have no personal interest beyond the profit involved, and think of them as toys. I find that the Combatstick is a little better suited to my needs than the Fighterstick-fewer buttons, but the same quality, and my thumb gets a cannon trigger where it belongs...

cheers

horseback

Ltn.F.Baracca
05-13-2005, 07:07 PM
...... mee too I am owner of the Saitek X-52 but i must say that he has left some things me enough........perplexed (to notice that before I had the Saitek X-45).
A)The motivating force is decidedly like no-existent, its excessive soft renders the movements to the limit of the weight of the hand.
B)The idea to put the rudder on the JOYstick to sin the precise movements of the old Saitek X-45 (in tacking the rudder twist on the JOY always stretches to prime a hair... like all the rudders on the JOY.)
C) the potentiometer works through a magnetic field elettro (does not work with the CLASSIC potentiometer ), this makes that the setting of the aces cannot be regulated whit set software ...........they are auto-setting.....so, nothing customer of the centers or the run effective of fine race.)
D)The driver are not existent On-Line from no part, if for case the Saitek did not have to go something well.....wait that memories that come-back that to have put it in PRETTY commerce.....it will be the attendance download software.
E)Like I said over, thanks to the MOTIVATING FORCE, it's not understood where the begins center and when it moves instead the JOY.
F)I buttons POV1 and POV2 are somtime it's hard to use in action, because , once set the height grip, you must arrive to a compromise between -----> arriving well to the POV1 or the POV2.
G)The axe Y get a default dead zone in the centre very hard to set.........the response work too...bad!
In conclusion:
The Saitek, with the X-52 model, has made of the steps from giant for how much care the management of software the SST, most complete in the particular minimums, enough to say as an example that on the throttle a type is qualified scroller mouse where to clic over and roll the small wheel you make less than to use mouse for the cursore movement and the blowup the map!!
May be work great in Lock-On....o Fly Simulator, but not for IL2!!
Obviously my point of view is only in relation and comparison of the possessory one of... old the Saitek X-45!

*sorry for the....bad english.....thx http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Hello.

Bearcat99
05-14-2005, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Frenchminem:
thanx for all the opinions??? and is there somebody using Sidewinder force feecback pro in here??

My advice? Get a X-45 and use it in conjuction with the MSFFB. Iwt works great and you wind up with a HOTAS with FFB for a small price. I use the FFB stick to fly with.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Bearcat99/myrig24web.jpg

Works great for me. I have a TIR2 which is not in that picture. Since I use the X-45 stick only as a button bay I dont have to have it on the right side. All flight controls ,weps and main views are on the hats (on the MS stick as well). All hats are configured as 4 way switches. All other controls between chocks,canopy,radiator,seperate engine,quick record,bail out etc are split between all 3 pieces.

major_setback
05-14-2005, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:

If you want a nice heavy set of rudder pedals, I believe there is a small German company who produce REALLY heavy duty metal USB rudder pedals for a decent price. Can someone elaborate on this?


----


This site has a set of heavy duty metal rudder pedals. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Also a good selection of sticks (UK site).


http://www.rcsimulations.com/switch.htm

Ltn.F.Baracca
05-14-2005, 11:19 AM
my opinion about rudder betweeen .....prize-quality-precision it's SIMPED RUDDER pro usb.......much better that CH...(made in metall-nice component and work.......VERY FINE!!).

PriK
05-14-2005, 11:42 AM
Don't listen to the n00bs justifying their purchases with fanboy talk about graduating and stuff. Flying this sim without good force feedback is like stabbing yourself in one eye and driving to work. All you're doing is wasting money looking for precision when you will actually be sacrificing precision overall.

If you are an airquake player looking for 1% advantage to get more points online the argument can be made for an expensive stick with lots of buttons and stuff but if you play this sim to be immersed and want to "feel" the stall point when landing or maneuvering then why cut off one of your senses?

Anyway, when you get talked into getting an X45 or whatever PM me about selling your MSFFB2.

Ltn.F.Baracca
05-14-2005, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by PriK:
Don't listen to the n00bs justifying their purchases with fanboy talk about graduating and stuff. Flying this sim without good force feedback is like stabbing yourself in one eye and driving to work. All you're doing is wasting money looking for precision when you will actually be sacrificing precision overall.

If you are an airquake player looking for 1% advantage to get more points online the argument can be made for an expensive stick with lots of buttons and stuff but if you play this sim to be immersed and want to "feel" the stall point when landing or maneuvering then why cut off one of your senses?

Anyway, when you get talked into getting an X45 or whatever PM me about selling your MSFFB2.
........Wow........sombody take a royality whit Microsoft?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Nobody saied that FF it's bad........but sorry......you can't say........THE BEST WAY IT'S....MSFFB2!!
If you are happy whit your Joystick.....enjoy time whit it!!........and see you in one room..........better in CW !!
**Ah!! LW aces,of course!!.......no overmodell ..thx!!LOL!

major_setback
05-15-2005, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
.... Since I use the X-45 stick only as a button bay I dont have to have it on the right side....

Do you use the 'X45 throttle' as a throttle at all or just as a buttton bay?

I'm not trying to be funny here, but...
If not, then could you explain why this is. It seems to me that seing as you have TrackIR (I think I remember reading that you use this) then your hands are free to use a freestanding throttle. Otherwise what is the reason for you only using it as a button bay?

Also, how good does it work as a throttle, is it smooth etc.?
The reason I ask is that I've noticed that the X45 is reasonably priced and it might be worth picking one up if I ever get round to buying TrackIR.

WB_Outlaw
05-15-2005, 01:27 PM
The best thing that ever happened to my sim. experience was when my Thrustmaster Cougar died. I replaced it with an X-52 and couldn't believe the difference.

The only drawbacks are, as someone previously mentioned (I think), the light center spring force, and a very light sticking tendency in some positions that is easily relieved with a bit of lubrication. I could see where the light center spring force would be a problem if you are playing at a desk like most people, but I built a custom cockpit (more of a specialized desk) so everything is at a perfect height. Think about that before you buy. I have no problems with drivers in IL-2 or Aces High and both games recognize all axes. I do not use the twist axis on the stick and have it locked down (the ability to lock it in place is built into the stick). I use a pair of game port pedals connected to a $20 game port to USB converter I got from Radio Shack. Also, the light weight of the X-52 (since it's plastic) may be a problem if you're not in a comfortable position.

Before I got the X-52, I was a 15 year customer of Thrustmaster products starting with their original stick/throttle combo that supported 6 different games via DIP switch settings. While the Cougar is definitely stronger and a bit more programmable, the center springs are WAY too strong (I replaced the stock 18 lb springs with the 12 lb springs that were in my older TM F-22 stick), and the potentiometers were TOTAL AND COMPLETE ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. I can't stress enough about how crappy the TM pots are (and always have been).

Even if I didn't have a dedicated game machine and had to play on a desk, I'd rather rig something to hold down a lighter stick with a lighter center spring than fight the Cougar all the time.

One thing I WOULDN'T do is get an X-45. For just a little bit more you get MUCH more functionality from the X-52.

-Outlaw.

major_setback
05-16-2005, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:

If you want a nice heavy set of rudder pedals, I believe there is a small German company who produce REALLY heavy duty metal USB rudder pedals for a decent price. Can someone elaborate on this?


----


This site has a set of heavy duty metal rudder pedals. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Also a good selection of sticks (UK site).


http://www.rcsimulations.com/switch.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's another heavy duty set of rudder pedals. These are a bit (lot) pricey at 400 pounds (UK).

http://www.flyelite.ch/index2.htm

Bearcat99
05-16-2005, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
.... Since I use the X-45 stick only as a button bay I dont have to have it on the right side....

Do you use the 'X45 throttle' as a throttle at all or just as a buttton bay?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes of course. That is the main reason why I got the X-45. Once I realized that I could use the full stick as well I just started assigning commands as I went along. The trottle has power,trim,some views,map,radiator,tailhook,canopy,flaps,padlocks and SHIFT,ALT & CTRL. The stick has seperate engine start,engine startmsupercharger,mixture,all lights,all gear,drop tanks,attatch/detatch plane,bailout and some stuff I forgot cause I dont use it much.. but it's there....LOL

PriK
05-16-2005, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Ltn.F.Baracca:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PriK:
Don't listen to the n00bs justifying their purchases with fanboy talk about graduating and stuff. Flying this sim without good force feedback is like stabbing yourself in one eye and driving to work. All you're doing is wasting money looking for precision when you will actually be sacrificing precision overall.

If you are an airquake player looking for 1% advantage to get more points online the argument can be made for an expensive stick with lots of buttons and stuff but if you play this sim to be immersed and want to "feel" the stall point when landing or maneuvering then why cut off one of your senses?

Anyway, when you get talked into getting an X45 or whatever PM me about selling your MSFFB2.
........Wow........sombody take a royality whit Microsoft?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Nobody saied that FF it's bad........but sorry......you can't say........THE BEST WAY IT'S....MSFFB2!!
If you are happy whit your Joystick.....enjoy time whit it!!........and see you in one room..........better in CW !!
**Ah!! LW aces,of course!!.......no overmodell ..thx!!LOL! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please don't tell me what I can or can't say or how I can say it, anyone is welcome to agree or not with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, I ended up going with the CH throttle despite the cost. The contol manager software is top notch and allows for as many functions as you could want on one hand if you assign a shift button. I only leave functions used rarely on the keyboard.

The other thing I like about using the CH throttle is the mini-mouse which I assigned to manual gear up/down which gives you the feeling of pumping the gear up and down more than using a macro (which again is very easy to do in the control manager software).

DRAGON_2_GO
05-16-2005, 10:28 AM
About that rudder thing:
Has anybody got a cheaper idea?
The prices of you links are climbing, but as a poor little pupil http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif of 16 years, I can't really afford that expensive stuff (at last not untill really, really nessesary). I still use a MSFF 2, because of the great feel for your plane. However me to, I would like to get a throttle, and rudderpedals. So has anybody got an idea where to get something a bit cheaper?

cheers

Maple_Tiger
05-16-2005, 10:59 AM
This may sound nutts, but I started using my mouse weel for the throttle lol. Works ok this way because I use the mouse to look around.

Only thing I may want to buy right now, is a set of rudder peddles. I just got my Fighter stick from Kas three days ago, and I'm back to using my keybord for rudder control lol.

So what was my point? I don't know lol. The Fighter stick seems to work alot better then the Logitec Extreme 3D Pro that I previously had. Infact, my first stick, a Side Winder, lasted three times as long as my Logitec. I threw the Logitec in the garbage after three months lol.

FoolTrottel
05-16-2005, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by DRAGON_2_GO:
About that rudder thing:
Has anybody got a cheaper idea?
The prices of you links are climbing, but as a poor little pupil http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif of 16 years, I can't really afford that expensive stuff (at last not untill really, really nessesary). I still use a MSFF 2, because of the great feel for your plane. However me to, I would like to get a throttle, and rudderpedals. So has anybody got an idea where to get something a bit cheaper?

cheers

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/Rudder1a.jpg

gooner1
05-16-2005, 11:40 AM
I really enjoy using the heavy cougar joystick and throttle though the setup is not for the faint hearted.
But once i had got to grips with making button scripts and create 2 or more button combinations for extra functions etc, though this took me 6 hours!.
Also have axis aligment trouble from time to time but i always mend it somehow.
highly recommend the ch products though despite the fact i run a cougar. And if it's cost you're worried about. let's face it you'll only buy one. =)http://www.pintura3d.com/downloads/reality/steves_rig1.jpg

Frenchminem
05-17-2005, 03:34 AM
---->>>Maple_Tiger
please, tell me what mouse you're using for looking around AND use scroll as throttle... cuz I just can't do this with my logitech LX700
(i'll try this evenning with a standert cord and bowl mouse... maybe... can be enought...)
i'd like to use mouse to look around, cuz, it's the best way I think... joystick views are not easy of use... and always fixed... can't follow a plane going around you easily... (and i'm used to play FPS game with mouse... so I know how to use my mouse...)
and, using It for looking around, i got that Idea too to use the scroll as throttle, cuz while i follow a plane with eyes, closely, i got many time to change speed.. and.. leave mouse to scroll the joystick throttle.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
(would be nice to emulate my LX700, cuz I got 5 more buttons in mor ethen right, left and center... and the only extra button recoginze is the 4 mouse... wich is previous in window...(even the 3 mouse... (next in windo) is not recognized by the game... so I really don't understand!!)

Ltn.F.Baracca
05-17-2005, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Ltn.F.Baracca:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PriK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ltn.F.Baracca:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PriK:
Don't listen to the <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">n00bs</span> justifying their purchases with<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> fanboy</span> talk about graduating and stuff. Flying this sim without good force feedback is like stabbing yourself in one eye and driving to work. All you're doing is wasting money looking for precision when you will actually be sacrificing precision overall.

If you are an <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">airquake</span> player looking for 1% advantage to get more points online the argument can be made for an expensive stick with lots of buttons and stuff but if you play this sim to be immersed and want to "feel" the stall point when landing or maneuvering then why cut off one of your senses?

Anyway, when you get talked into getting an X45 or whatever PM me about selling your MSFFB2.
........Wow........sombody take a royality whit Microsoft?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Nobody saied that FF it's bad........but sorry......you can't say........THE BEST WAY IT'S....MSFFB2!!
If you are happy whit your Joystick.....enjoy time whit it!!........and see you in one room..........better in CW !!
**Ah!! LW aces,of course!!.......no overmodell ..thx!!LOL! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please don't tell me what I can or can't say or how I can say it, anyone is welcome to agree or not with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ltn.F.Baracca.

Infact, i dont agree but..anyway,thx for the........<span class="ev_code_RED">CHANCE</span> to get different Joystick,Sir!
I would like sale one MSFFB2.......nice occasion.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif 200$!!

P.S....Microsoft-Logitech-Hotas Cougar-Saitek-CH Products......but the only thing we need it's just.......feel wat you are doing whit o whitout FFB!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
......bye!!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maple_Tiger
05-17-2005, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Frenchminem:
---->>>Maple_Tiger
please, tell me what mouse you're using for looking around AND use scroll as throttle... cuz I just can't do this with my logitech LX700
(i'll try this evenning with a standert cord and bowl mouse... maybe... can be enought...)
i'd like to use mouse to look around, cuz, it's the best way I think... joystick views are not easy of use... and always fixed... can't follow a plane going around you easily... (and i'm used to play FPS game with mouse... so I know how to use my mouse...)
and, using It for looking around, i got that Idea too to use the scroll as throttle, cuz while i follow a plane with eyes, closely, i got many time to change speed.. and.. leave mouse to scroll the joystick throttle.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
(would be nice to emulate my LX700, cuz I got 5 more buttons in mor ethen right, left and center... and the only extra button recoginze is the 4 mouse... wich is previous in window...(even the 3 mouse... (next in windo) is not recognized by the game... so I really don't understand!!)


I'm also using a Logitech mousy. That said, I haven't thy clue as to what model it is. There are three bottons for and a scroll weel. The third botton is in between the other two.

Start game, go into Controls, and scroll down to Hotas Control. Where it says Power, left click and add use the scroll weel. Mine shows up as.

Power - Mouse Z - Axis.