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View Full Version : Is putting your plane into a flatspin a good strategy to get Enemy off your tail?



Superjew1
06-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Hi, Im a complete n00b when it comes to wwii combat flight sims but I was wondering, if you have an opponent on your tail, should you put your plane into a flat spin to avoid getting shot down or will you tall too fast and risk destroying the plane by doing so?

Because thats pretty much what I was doing when I was combat flight simming, I would pull up on the stick hard and my plane would spin out, usually I could get out of it, sometimes not though.

Col.BBQ
06-15-2009, 12:12 PM
You shouldn't put your plane into a flat spin PERIOD! If you do, your pursuer can gain more energy and shoot you down with ease.

However, stalling out your plane briefly for a quick reduction of speed is effective but difficult to pull off.

TinyTim
06-15-2009, 12:25 PM
Anything but flatspin!

Let's assume you did everything you could to prevent the enemy glue to your tail, but he did anyway.

Firstly, knowing capabilities of your and enemy planes is imperative. Do something he can't follow - you can nearly always found such a characteristic. If you are in a better diving plane, dive. If you are a better turner, turn. Many times flat or rolling scissors do the trick.

Secondly, if there is no other way out, run into a cloud, or try to drag the enemy so that he becomes a target for your teammates. This will either scare him off or hopefully get him killed before he kills you. If none of your friends are around, try to drag him towards friendly AAA.

But for a self preservation instinct's sake, don't get into a flatspin on purpose. Firstly, as Col.BBQ said, you dump a lot of energy and put yourself into even more inferior position than you already are in. Secondly, for a skilled pilot a flat spinning aircraft presents a sitting duck.

stalkervision
06-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Ya go ahead.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

DIRTY-MAC
06-15-2009, 01:51 PM
No.

staticline1
06-15-2009, 02:01 PM
If your enemy doesn't kill you the ground will. But give it a try and let us know how it works out for you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ba5tard5word
06-15-2009, 02:41 PM
You mean where you start spinning downwards like a pizza? I find it's very hard to get out of those even with planes that don't stall easily, and if I'm close to the ground I'm a goner.

Doing a high speed stall is a lot easier to get out of--a lot of planes like the Spitfire and Fw-190 will flip to the right when you pull back hard on the stick. You lose some speed though.

I play offline and if I have an enemy on my tail I try to outrun him, outturn him, or get my wingman to shake him off. I never use stalls.

danjama
06-15-2009, 04:16 PM
yea sure the best plane to try this in is the p39 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

WTE_Galway
06-15-2009, 05:42 PM
Two comments ....


1. The spin you commonly get into in IL2 is generally NOT a flat spin its just a spin. Flat spins are rare and difficult to get out of. Normal spin recovery doesn't always work in a flat spin.

2. There is a historical precedent to the technique. Marseilles apparently used it when attacking allied Luftbury circles, coming up under his target, deflection shooting and then deliberately spinning out before the next plane in the circle could get a shot at him. Of course there was no chance of pursuit as the attacker would not break the circle.

BillSwagger
06-15-2009, 05:53 PM
yes..stall spins work to slow you down and generally make it difficult to hit you if you are twirling around. Its a last ditch effort, but not recommended if you have other alternatives.

Its best to practice entry and recovery techniques with a plane you have in mind.

If your not spinning on purpose then at least you'll have the knack for recovering fast.

Typical recovery procedure:

- full opposite rudder

- Neutral Elevators

- and in some planes it requires a little aileron finesse.

K_Freddie
06-15-2009, 05:57 PM
YES there is a way (http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Movies/SnapIt.avi), but not quiet like you sugguest, and I've been using it for years - it's never failed me.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Edt: This move will work on any aircraft... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Bearcat99
06-15-2009, 06:22 PM
I dont see what you are talking about Freddie... BTW. is this the same Freddie who made that Musatang pit?

K_Freddie
06-15-2009, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
is this the same Freddie who made that Musatang pit?
Sorry BC - that's not me.. WHO is the impersonator ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I am the K_Freddie.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

About the spin thingy
Superjew1 talks about the WW1 method, or his accidental method of spinning the a/c to put him out of the line of fire.

The video clip from another player, I've edited and added my 3 clips (ME109, Japanese plane-forgot the designation, FW190) on how to temporarily spin an a/c to get the other off one's tail.

Although not shown, all 3 a/c, Spit/Yak/P51 all bit the dust a few secs later, in their relative scenarios.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

K_Freddie
06-15-2009, 06:46 PM
With regards to how the moves are done...

Slowing down the video there are 'dead give aways' staring you right in the face... I say no more
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Treetop64
06-15-2009, 07:53 PM
"Is putting your plane into a flatspin a good strategy to get Enemy off your tail?"

That sounds akin to jumping into a boiling hot tar pit to evade a pursuing dinosaur...

RPMcMurphy
06-17-2009, 06:31 AM
Oh yeah man, a flat-spin is a bad idea and you would be destined for a dirt nap for sure unless you bail out in which case this would be a requirment for survival. You could however give the badguy plane the razzberries on the way down though atleast.

BillSwagger
06-17-2009, 06:52 AM
From what i can tell, the videos show the 3 planes doing a half loop toward the ground, then snap rolling so the plane pulls out on the outside of the loop.

This forces the pursuer to make an equally daring attempt, however, delayed by his reaction time, making it more difficult to follow safely.

I think the post refers to going into a stall spin , not just a quick snap roll.
Its not recommended but people do it and its sometimes very effective if the attacker is moving fast and not able to make an adjustment in time.

I've also had people go into a spin and hang up in front of my gun platform long enough to get chewed to pieces. On that note, not the best tactic. In a stall fight, where both planes have just stalled and now starting to point down toward the ground, going into a controlled spin can help keep you from falling in front of your opponent, or allow your opponent to fall in front of you, but if you cant recover quickly then you've given up any kind of E advantage which might be useful when your opponent regains enough flight to be a danger.

I still think its a stunt for more advanced pilots but it doesn't hurt to try.

Roberts_701
06-17-2009, 07:34 AM
once dived downed from 4000 mtrs and the opponent went into a flat spin and i pulled up at 500 kmp and gained 1000 mtres and suddenly the the said epponent pulled up and out climbed me...

Go figure...never read that in the book.

so yeah seems to work in certain server's.

K_Freddie
06-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
I think the post refers to going into a stall spin , not just a quick snap roll.

I'm sure of this, but isn't a snap roll achieved by applying rudder in the opposite direction to the turn.
In these moves, all control surfaces are maxed to force a spin in the direction of the turn, and then recovery is made just as fast.

The roll/spin into the turn is done to keep the other a/c rolling with you, albeit at a much slower rate, giving one time to 'escape'.

Doing the 'official' snap roll where the a/c rolls out of the turn, is not as effective as the other pilot can see your change of direction much 'sooner'.

What I've noticed is that rolling into the turn seems to 'lock' the pilots concentration, slowing his reaction time.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif