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View Full Version : Will they model the clumsy mariner and the spanner?



munnst
10-29-2004, 08:56 AM
You've all seen the scenario on most vintage ww2 sub movies.

Skipper goes deep, reduces revs and orders "Silent Running".

The destroyers are loosing the contact, they are drifting away when..."Clank", the clumsy mariner (normally cook or other lowly rank) manages to knock that spanner left precariously dangling on the edge of bunk or cupboard. The destroyers returns for another 12 hours of hellish nightmare (it's at this point the cook realises that he also should have packed away the crockery).

So will it be modelled?

bertgang
10-29-2004, 09:21 AM
Should be fun.

The cook will be disembaked, if my boat survives.

server1a
10-29-2004, 11:16 AM
OR the flatulant cook in "Down Periscope".

". . . Sounds like an explosion sir"

oscar0072004
10-29-2004, 11:33 AM
i,m sure if my smutje (cook) would give our possition away, i,d order him to the deck-gun on heavy sea!

Leif...
10-29-2004, 12:56 PM
I hope not. In my opinion there are way to many requests for random causes to death.

Perhaps in reality the only difference between a dead commander and a successful ACE where luck. But in a sim I would like my skill as a commander to make a difference. There is no point in training or trying different tactics if it all comes down to a roll of the dice anyway.

I would loose interest real quick if I constantly die for reasons way out of my control such as:
You€re dead because of sabotage.
You€re dead because of a toilet malfunction.
You€re dead because you hit a stray mine in the middle of the Atlantic.
You€re dead because you where hit by an asteroid.

Nah, that would only be frustrating.

Leif€¦

FI.Spitsfire
10-29-2004, 01:24 PM
You€re dead because you where hit by an asteroid.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

hauitsme
10-29-2004, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
In my opinion there are way to many requests for random causes to death.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's because of attitudes like this that we're not getting certain weapons to be used against us. Example:
Q = Will you have the Mk 24 FIDO Air-launched homing torpedo? It sunk 31 U-boats, with another 15 damaged, so it was a very important weapon for the Allies.
A = No. We decided to leave out of the game weapons that have the potential to €œinstant kill€ the player without giving him any options.



THANK YOU for helping to make this more of a 'game' than a 'Sim'!!

Teddy Bar
10-29-2004, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leif...:
In my opinion there are way to many requests for random causes to death.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's because of attitudes like this that we're not getting certain weapons to be used against us. Example:
Q = Will you have the Mk 24 FIDO Air-launched homing torpedo? It sunk 31 U-boats, with another 15 damaged, so it was a very important weapon for the Allies.
A = No. We decided to leave out of the game weapons that have the potential to €œinstant kill€ the player without giving him any options.



THANK YOU for helping to make this more of a 'game' than a 'Sim'!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is/was a disappointment the the Dev Team decided to leave this out because of the given reason.

Though we will presume that we have honed the skill set of our sailors in monkey wrench avoidance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

macker33
10-30-2004, 06:59 PM
If the dev team is serious about modeling the cook properly then they better make sure he has a magical farting ***,its always the fresh guy and the farter who knocks the spanner.

Leif...
10-31-2004, 02:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
THANK YOU for helping to make this more of a 'game' than a 'Sim'!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You€re welcome.

But if you read my post you might have seen that I was against RANDOM causes to death, not a well-simulated attack with a real weapon. I, as a commander, can try different tactics against a well SIMULATED attack, against a random death there is nothing I can do.

A simulation often has to be based on some kind of a random function combined with statistics. But a good simulator has those random numbers thrown very early when setting up the scene, and then the simulator runs as a predictable and repeatable machine.

Bottom line, a random function repeats statistics. It€s not a simulator.

Leif€¦

Mitarbeiter
11-01-2004, 05:41 AM
Random deaths should be banned in all games unless they're there for some sort of artistic point.

The lack of that air dropped torpedo is a shame though, as I believe it was actually included in Command Aces of the Deep!

munnst
11-01-2004, 07:27 AM
The problem with some weapons for example acoutstic torps is that they are `instant kill` weapons and therefore not included in the sim.

Why are they not included. Well in a sim there would be no point. Wham your dead. That's either very frustrating or a quick reload to resolve. It would just spoil the game (in the same way treading on a landmine in MHO or jumping on Pungi Sticks in Vietcong just becomes annoying after time.

Jose.MaC
11-01-2004, 10:06 AM
As long as they can be included on a mod, I don't care about it.

hauitsme
11-01-2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by munnst:
The problem with some weapons for example acoutstic torps is that they are `instant kill` weapons and therefore not included in the sim.

Why are they not included. Well in a sim there would be no point. Wham your dead. That's either very frustrating or a quick reload to resolve. It would just spoil the game (in the same way treading on a landmine in MHO or jumping on Pungi Sticks in Vietcong just becomes annoying after time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to you, ANYTHING that might be considered an 'instant death' weapon shouldn't be included because 'there would be no point' in a SIM(do you know what a 'sim' is?). Plus 'it would just spoil the game'.

I also see your one of the CHEATERS that will 'reload to resolve' your death. Why do you even bother starting if all your going to do is live forever with no chance of death. They can't get me, I'm INVINCIBLE !!! If you shoot me, it doesn't count. I'll just reload again till I come out on top!! HA! I showed you! NaNaNa! Missed me!

Another 'gamer' that doesn't know the difference between a 'game' and a 'sim'!!

So, just what weapons would you allow to be in this SIMULATION. Maybe that's the wrong question to ask you, since the most probable answer is NONE!! Then you wouldn't have to be 'frustrated'. We wouldn't want to 'annoy' you now, would we?

SailorSteve
11-01-2004, 02:14 PM
In this case, Hauitsme, I have to side with the 'no instant death' group. I don't like the idea of a career ending because my boat was hit during a random air attack on my home base. I also don't like the idea of seeing a screen which tells me the plane carrying me to Berlin to be rewarded by the Fuhrer himself crashed en route. Or that my wife shot me after catching me with another woman. All of those are real possibilities.

Any death during combat is acceptable. Being killed by means entirely beyond my control is not. Maybe we should change our objection to 'no automatic death'.

Jose.MaC
11-01-2004, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oscar0072004:
i,m sure if my smutje (cook) would give our possition away, i,d order him to the deck-gun on heavy sea! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's shows useless cruelty and salvagism. I would pass him under the keel, ala British Fleet!

Jose.MaC
11-01-2004, 02:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SailorSteve:
In this case, Hauitsme, I have to side with the 'no instant death' group. I don't like the idea of a career ending because my boat was hit during a random air attack on my home base. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of those ships were later recovered and put again in the front. Would just mean a delay.

hauitsme
11-01-2004, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SailorSteve:
In this case, Hauitsme, I have to side with the 'no instant death' group. I don't like the idea of a career ending because my boat was hit during a random air attack on my home base. I also don't like the idea of seeing a screen which tells me the plane carrying me to Berlin to be rewarded by the Fuhrer himself crashed en route. Or that my wife shot me after catching me with another woman. All of those are real possibilities.

Any death during combat is acceptable. Being killed by means entirely beyond my control is not. Maybe we should change our objection to 'no automatic death'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Steve, I'm surprised! Finally we're gonna duke it out!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/box1.gif
Let's take this one at a time, shall we? I think I know the first paragraph is more or less a joke/sarcasm(aren't they?). They are good points though(especially the wife one!), but not what I would consider 'at sea/on patrol' "instant death".
If it's not a joke/sarcasm, we'll finish this fight later(hehehe).

Your second paragraph has me stumped.
The first line is exactly correct. The word '<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Any</span>' says it all. Be it from bomb, depth charge, hedgehogs, mines, bullets, <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">any</span>thing.
But then you put restrictions on the first line by what you said in the second. Is a bomb dropped on you if you don't happen to see the plane 'unfair'?(you saw one plane but there were actually two). Running into an unknown minefield 'unfair'?(it happened to be laid there only hours before, even though you had been there yesterday). Understand my point? The DevTeam left out the Mk24 torp because it was an 'instant kill' weapon. It was in NO way one; 31 subs sunk, 15 DAMAGED. And that's only from the ones that hit! How many missed? That's only one weapon. How many others are to be left out? How big of a bomb does it take to not kill you? How many bullets are too many?

I may be going overboard here (remember, no lifeboats!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif ), but there should be absolutely no restrictions (as long as its historically correct) when it comes to how we can die. Even if it's one weapon, it's one too many.
Bring it on!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/duel.gif

bertgang
11-02-2004, 09:27 AM
I'm with Leif and Sailor Steve in telling "no istant death" by several silly reasons (wives, asteroids, illness) out of player's control.

Not sure about allied mines and homing torpedoes, anyway, as:
1) I see these weapons as a part of "normal" war danger;
2) often they did severe damage, without killing.

A bit of bad surprises at sea (including equipement's malfunctions) could be really interesting, if rare.

Messervy
11-02-2004, 09:56 AM
It can be easilly sorted by implementing an option switch:

Fluke coincidencess : Yes No http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

hauitsme
11-02-2004, 08:08 PM
Leif, Sorry about not fully quoting what I was complaining about so you would have more info to straighten me out. I wasn't attacking you personally. Just the view. Let's try again:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>munnst:
So will it be modelled? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Leif:
I hope not. In my opinion there are way to many requests for random causes to death...
...I would loose interest real quick if I constantly die for reasons way out of my control... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hauitsme:
It's because of attitudes like this that we're not getting certain weapons to be used against us... ...THANK YOU for helping to make this more of a 'game' than a 'Sim'!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Leif:
You€re welcome.

But if you read my post you might have seen that I was against RANDOM causes to death, not a well-simulated attack with a real weapon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry I used the Mk24 example in my post, but it p*sses me off they left that out(what else did they omit?), so I constantly use it as just an 'example' of what we're not getting. It was mainly the 'attitude' of complaining about ways that we can be killed. I'm under the FIRM belief that 'if it was there, it should be here'. Every weapon and defense of both sides. Random death happened 'there'. It should be 'here'. I'm not talking about heart attacks or asteroids, but I am talking about things like stray mines(It could happen, it probably did. They just didn't have the opportunity to report it) and anything else that could 'get' us. Not everything is automatically 'instant death'. But some things are. I want them all to be included. This is supposed to be a 'sim', not a 'game'.