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SeaFireLIV
10-05-2005, 03:21 AM
I`ve been watching some history channel footage of the Pacific war, in fact it gets so repeated that I just soak it up in an osmosis manner.

Anyway, the US Carriers in the real footage look much bigger than PF`s, the takeoff ways appear longer and they are able to fit quite a lot of aircraft in the parkways and sometimes on the runway together.

It seems in PF, carriers just aren`t big enough to take this many aircraft. They appear small in comparison.

Am I right or is this just an illusionary optical effect I`m seeing?

nakamura_kenji
10-05-2005, 04:39 AM
not sure if right size but much big than cfs-2 had mini carriers >_<

KIMURA
10-05-2005, 04:39 AM
is that an outing of your flying skills, isn't it?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif (just kidding)

JG53Frankyboy
10-05-2005, 04:53 AM
the USS Essex is is game ~260m long (flight deck) and ~38m broad (flight deck).
sounds good to me.

ElAurens
10-05-2005, 05:31 AM
This was discussed some time ago...

Yes they are correct.

BigBoy01
10-05-2005, 06:44 AM
Gives one an additional sense of appreciation for how good those flyers really were.

SeaFireLIV
10-05-2005, 07:03 AM
It`s a perception thing then. Thanks guys. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

jds1978
10-05-2005, 07:20 AM
yea...it's definitely perception...a few years ago i got to go inside a B17 & B24...my first impression upon seeing the AC in real life was..."OMG these things are tiny!"

LEBillfish
10-05-2005, 07:43 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/77538.jpg

tomtheyak
10-05-2005, 08:27 AM
Hmmm... those TBFs on the foredeck are gonna need a one hell of a headwind to get off - especially with their wings folded... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

MAILMAN------
10-06-2005, 12:02 AM
Was looking at a Vought's Official Company site. They had a couple of pictures with Corsairs with folded wings five abreast on the after carrier deck. Are the Fleet Carriers wide enough to accomodate 5 corsairs abreast in the game? Would be interesting to see if it was possible. We could then get a better idea if the Essex Class carriers are the correct width in the game.

duffys_tavern
10-06-2005, 06:19 AM
Think the real CVs parked the a/c much closer then we see in PF.

LEBillfish
10-06-2005, 06:29 AM
Well I'd say our carriers look pretty darn close to what I see in the pick above....& to be able to line up 5 Corsairs would be possible on the above and ours...However, that does not mean they can unfold the wings and take off from that position...You'd have to roll them out one at a time then do it.

Looking at the above with no catapult kinda gives you a sense of the skill level huh?

VT-51_Razor
10-06-2005, 07:26 AM
The real shame of this game is the lack of catapults. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Billfish's picture is a CVL I believe, which is slightly longer than the CVE's in the game. In RL they used catapults to launch the aircraft when the winds were too light, or the deck space was taken up with too many planes, or the aircraft were too heavy with fuel and ordinance. Too bad we don't have that option. I have read that the Jeep carriers were sometimes prevented from carrying out flight operations without their cat due to lack of wind because they could not go fast enough to get the needed wind over the deck for a deck launch!

I have cured that problem by going into the .mis file and bumping the speed up for the Jeeps to about 39 Kts. This makes for a very realistic ability to get off the ship with a usable loadout, and during carrier quals, you can trap and launch all day long. I have consistantly been able to get a clean Corsair or Hellcat off the deck from the aft end of the catapult track! That would be about in the middle of the forward elevator.

This makes for some more enjoyable Coops and Single Player missions.

Tater-SW-
10-06-2005, 11:32 AM
That's an Independence Class CVL I think.

To line up more planes we need some airdales.

tater

BSS_Vidar
10-06-2005, 02:57 PM
The CV's, and CVE's are the correct size in the game. Flying off of them in a DF serve makes them seem alot smaller than they should feel due to no head wind over the deck. Fly a coop with a moving carrier. The deck will seem much bigger, and more managable on the approach.

When we "had" manageable braking in this game, the BSS use to be able to stack, pack, and rack the flight deck very easily. Now we just re-fly after a successful trap back to dry land to take-off and re-enter the carrier's airspace again for another trap.

The Essex class's port elevator holds 3 'sairs (wings folded) very nicely. 5 'sairs across the deck wouldn't be a problem at all. Check this out...

http://pub16.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?cp=2&us...91521479&album=23363 (http://pub16.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?cp=2&usernum=1291521479&album=23363)

a few shots around the boat...

http://pub16.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?usernum=1291521479&album=23363

We fly authentic carrier operations based off of the U.S. Navy's CV NATOPS manual. We encourage anyone serious about "re-enacting" how it was really done, to fly with us anytime.

S!

Asgeir_Strips
10-07-2005, 05:15 AM
another thing why we see the corsairs etc, parked so tightly together in real life is because, if they touched each other, no damage would occur obviously, but that would happen in game unfortunately..

skycaptain_1
10-07-2005, 06:48 AM
yes It would be nice to have a damage model that depends on the impact velocity.

Bearcat99
10-07-2005, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by jds1978:
yea...it's definitely perception...a few years ago i got to go inside a B17 & B24...my first impression upon seeing the AC in real life was..."OMG these things are tiny!"

Yeh mine too....it also gave you an idea why so many went down with the ship... can you imagine trying to get out of a spinning, falling bomber..... it would be so easy to bang your head on something or get your foot caught..... the B-17 in particular was amazing how small it was.

jds1978
10-07-2005, 02:28 PM
Yeh mine too....it also gave you an idea why so many went down with the ship... can you imagine trying to get out of a spinning, falling bomber..... it would be so easy to bang your head on something or get your foot caught..... the B-17 in particular was amazing how small it was.

yup...very cramped on the inside...w/ both the B17 & B24 whatever space that wasn't taken up by fuel, bombay, bombloads, MGs, primative navigation and targeting computers was occupied by the crew themselves...i'm a little claustrophobic but i made myself tour both bombers...its something i'll never regret

p-11.cAce
10-09-2005, 04:01 PM
I have also been fortunate enough to tour a B-17 and I could not agree more with the previous comments about lack of space. Jefferson Barracks Cemetary outside of St. louis Mo has many graves dedicated to entire crews that were unable to exit their a/c. During my tour I thought the navigator and the flight deck crew were the worst off if the a/c was spinning/tumbling as they have a ways to go to get to an "exit". I've also read accounts of crewmen who were in the tunnel of the B-29 when the a/c was hit - talk about being up the creek! Scary stuff indeed.

Waldo.Pepper
10-10-2005, 06:30 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/carrier/5051f4f2.jpg

BSS_CUDA
10-10-2005, 09:02 PM
I seriously doubt that we can get this many FB aircraft on the deck of an Essex Class Carrier

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/020914.jpg

ElAurens
10-10-2005, 09:58 PM
I agree,but it's not because of the size of the Essex model in the sim. If you could place those aircraft as statics on deck in the FMB it could be done, except that there is no static with the wings folded.

I placed a static Essex on a map and set up 2 static SBDs on the water behind it in the same configuration as the photo you posted above. There would be no problem placing that many SBDs on deck.

Anyone know how to move objects on te "Z" axis (up or down)?

Dash_C.
10-11-2005, 07:22 AM
To move objects in the Z axis, hold down the F4 key and the left mouse button while in 3d view and move the mouse up and down. Note: This does not work with all objects.

IV_JG51_Razor
10-12-2005, 08:43 AM
Only the lights and smoke can be moved in the Z axis.

MAILMAN------
10-12-2005, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Well I'd say our carriers look pretty darn close to what I see in the pick above....& to be able to line up 5 Corsairs would be possible on the above and ours...However, that does not mean they can unfold the wings and take off from that position...You'd have to roll them out one at a time then do it.



Looking at the above with no catapult kinda gives you a sense of the skill level huh?

WEll the carrier in your picture is a smaller escort carrier not one of the larger fleet carriers like the Essex Class. I was just looking for a comparison for width is all to see if the game's large cv's could do it like the real one. Seems like a good test to me.

FritzGryphon
10-12-2005, 10:01 PM
Just measure using the grid in the FMB. The carrier, then the plane width.

It's not rocket science.

VT-51_Razor
10-12-2005, 10:34 PM
Mailman, just a small point, but the picture that LEBillfish put up is actually slightly larger than the CVE "Jeep" carriers. It appears to be a CVL, which was a cruiser hull with a carrier deck instead of a bunch of guns. It could keep up with the fleet carriers, but had a much smaller air group embarked, consisting of a fighter squadron (F6Fs) and a torpedo squadron (TBMs). They were a bit longer than a Jeep, but not a whole lot wider.

Just based on what our squad has been able to do , stacking the deck of the carrier, I'd say that Oleg got them just about the right size.

VT-51_Razor
10-13-2005, 01:02 PM
Cuda, if the game would allow 50+ folks to join a coop, AND if you could find those 50+ pilots, AND if all 50+ of them could get aboard without damage, you could actually stack the deck like that! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Here's how: modify the .MIS file such that the bird farm is moving along at a brisk 40 knots or so. Once everyone is down and stacked forward, you just start with the SBDs in the back of the pack, pulling their chocks and allowing them to begin rolling backwards one at a time. Their engines should remain at idle because, it's been my experience that,if you allow yourself to get rolling backwards too fast, you don't have enough braking power to get stopped (thank you very much 1:C). You can even steer a bit, within reason, using rudders.

That would make quite a squad picture, wouldn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Aaron_GT
10-13-2005, 04:10 PM
Yeh mine too....it also gave you an idea why so many went down with the ship... can you imagine trying to get out of a spinning, falling bomber..... it would be so easy to bang your head on something or get your foot caught..... the B-17 in particular was amazing how small it was.

I went into the Sally B many years ago and brained myself going into the bombardiers position. I too was struck by how these planes seem to be reverse tardises - much smaller on the inside than you would think from the outside. I'll see if I have any pics of us posing outside the Sally B in flight gear and see if I can get the scanner to work (doesn't like Windows XP for some reason).

SeaFireLIV
10-13-2005, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by MAILMAN------:


WEll the carrier in your picture is a smaller escort carrier not one of the larger fleet carriers like the Essex Class. I was just looking for a comparison for width is all to see if the game's large cv's could do it like the real one. Seems like a good test to me.

Aha! that`s what had me. I was going to say that that Carrier looked a bit short and stubby compared to the footage I had been watching, but with my lack of knowledge on the subject I kept quiet. naughty Billfish!

BSS_Vidar
10-13-2005, 05:28 PM
Both Razor and Cuda...You both are right, to a point. That is, till we get 4.02 with the fixed braking model.(Yes, Oleg emailed me back and said the braking/ground handeling has be fixed).

However, you can stack the deck like that right now in a coop mission as a staring point. But until 4.02 comes out next week, braking and taxing characteristics will not allow for precision deck spoting.

S!