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View Full Version : Poll: AI flyable with NO pit in dogfight servers.



LeadSpitter_
02-18-2005, 04:46 PM

LeadSpitter_
02-18-2005, 06:13 PM
for those who voted no state your reasons why, hosts can still shut them off online and I see not one reason why they should not be flyable from internals, with host choice to shutthem off on and offline.

its not like these ac would perform like ai do for example ai ace in a yak or 109 can do manueveres the human fm cant.

The depth it would bring to offline and online play is so great, especially for essential ai carrier based torpedo bombers like the kate which is never becoming flyable becuase it has 3 stations and no front guns. Same with all the large bombers and all ai twin engine bombers which would add so much to online scenerios.

ai in my opinion is a total waste of a model and in 2005 there should be no ai only,

whats the difference in a ai being flyable from nocockpit view and why would someone vote against that it just baffels me.

Host has full control of planesets online and the user has full control of planeset choice offline so there is no reason to vote no.

p1ngu666
02-18-2005, 07:10 PM
see no reason against it, as something like a torpedeo bomber isnt that scary to a flyable fighter...

is there any ai only, really potent fighters? just bombers and ground attack i think...

Funzilla
02-18-2005, 08:00 PM
No.
It's simple really. Because they were never intended to be flown in dogfights, they have extremely simple and unrealistic flight models and damage models. Even a mediocre AI plane can become "uber" if it is allowed to be flown outside the normal performance envelope dictaded by the necessarilly complex FM and DM of the flyable aircraft.

FA_Razor

LeadSpitter_
02-18-2005, 09:21 PM
well from external flight they do not seem that bad and nothing like ai movement can pull off, same with flyable ac, ai can pull off manuevers a human cant in the same flyable plane dont mean the fm is uber.

and the online host or offline player has full control over what to limit so it would not be a problem funzilla at all, dms of ai in external flying is very reasonable and dont take many hits to bring down compaired to others like the flyable beaufighter for example.

It certainly would make the game better in my opinion and not let the ai go to complete waste.

p1ngu666
02-18-2005, 09:26 PM
well it would mostly be for bombers, which cant do that much funky stuff anyways, and ive flown ai planes, there pretty much fine. american torp bomber handles oddly, otherwise there fine

Skycat_2
02-18-2005, 09:47 PM
This really isn't my fight, Leadspitter, because I don't play online but very rarely ...

I know how desireable it is to some that all planes be flyable, and this proposal just seems to me like you're trying to break down the wall. Will making the AI 'flyable' in a rough-hewn, simplified state satisfy people? No, it will only open Oleg to a new round of demands and criticisms.

Let's imagine that the MC.202 is made flyable but with no cockpit. Okay, I've been wanting this plane since IL-2 ... now its flyable but the FM is crappy. "Oleg: Please tweak the roll rate on the MC.202! Oleg! The weapons on the Maachi are too weak! Oleg! I can't climb in the 202!" Etc., etc., etc.

So then Leadspitter will have to remind me that there are no more patches for FB+AEP+PF and my MC.202 will have to stay 'as is,' a bonus from 1C:MG.

Then somebody else thinks, "The MC.202 is already flyable ... How about a cockpit?" This becomes a petition in ORR under the title Give us cockpits Oleg!

Leadspitter then has to remind a whole bunch of people that the cockpitless planes with the crappy FMs are a bonus from 1C:MG games.

Now Johnny Noobie buys FB+AEP+PF and can't understand why his MC.202 -- which is flyable! -- has no cockpit. "Oleg, this sim is broken! Oleg, please fix the MC.202! Oleg is a jerk because I paid for a flyable MC.202!"

And Leadspitter posts a " http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif " and explains once again that the 'broken' planes with the really crappy FMs are free bonuses from the kind Russian developer who is now starting to market his next sim ...

I sympathize with everybody who wants a flyable TBM or Hawk 75 or whatever ... honestly. I just think this is a poor idea.

No457_Squog
02-19-2005, 01:03 AM
Good post, Skycat_2 ...

Yes VERY well put...

But I think I will still vote yes, because having the extra aircraft would bring something to the game, IMO.

Of course, they are mostly heavy-bombers - but remember this - how do we expect to bomb accurately from 22,000ft with no bombsite? I'm sure the LAST thing 1C is going to do it 'sub in' the B-25 nose section just for the norden bombsite...

So I think they should be put into the game, for exactly what they are. ex-AI-only flyables. They would certainly not be up to scratch in comparison to the rest of the flight models, but it would be great to take off from Malta in your Hurri IIc and find a Fw-200 doing naval reconnaisance nearby... all on a dogfight server. But that's just me.

S!

Blackjack174
02-19-2005, 06:39 AM
i c no reason against it , love to take a ju52 / li2 out for a ride , remember you could make some interresting escort missions etc. , it only would open up some possibilities , even if they dont have the best FM some of them still would be usefull.

F19_Orheim
02-19-2005, 08:06 AM
http://www.f19vs.se/files/k4flip.avi

DmdSeeker
02-19-2005, 08:22 AM
"The depth it would bring to offline and online play is so great"

How can it bring depth with no cockpits?

Would power ups bring more "depth" to?

How about open source leathality settings for your cannons? Then you kan get "depth" role playing fantasy field mods to....

crazyivan1970
02-19-2005, 09:08 AM
No, defeats the whole purpose of flight simulation in my book. But that just me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MaxMhz
02-19-2005, 03:09 PM
I voted YES http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Because under the conditions above - why not ? arcade play anyway. An added mini cockpit would be a HUGE bonus though :hint: lol
I dont belive the AI planes are œber at all - the AI itself is the problem. I don't know either if its possible to do with the game engine.

And you CAN play offline - add the AI in (must change too then in mission builder etc) and create a server online game.

It could mean too the Lockheed Martin would now see a few new "Flyable plane" types under their "Trademark"(cur-sed!) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif So I don't see it happening http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

And eh It's a game too you know ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oleg sacrifices FM for more planes in the air - he said so himself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And I thank him for it too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - good enough for me.

TAGERT.
02-19-2005, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I know you have said no to this before oleg, but since the game FB/aep/PF is coming to and end. Im asking you again can you please make all the ai flyable from internals with no cockpit view enabled in both locked cockpit servers and no locked cockpit servers.


I understand the fms of these aircraft are not fully tweaked but the benefit of having all these ac flyable online is immessurable even with the advantage of having no cockpits.

The hosts can always choose what aircraft they allow into thier games and lock those out which they choose so it would not be a problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%!
Anyone that dissagrees is ignorant! For two manin reasons!

1) nobody is forcing you to fly an AI plane
2) nobody is forcing you to fly in a server with AI planes

The main reason I want this done is so you can have a no-external DF server and make use of AI bombers. Like the B17 and others. Oleg, dont listen to the extream example people that cant sleep at night in fear of ever server on HL being converted to a Wonder Woman AI figher server.. IT WONT HAPPEN! The only effect it will have is you will see a few more bombers ilke the B17 running around in the existing servers. Remember, it is an option, and undocument at that! So F all those whinie bastages that say no to this idea! They are just ignorant!

But, to make it real useful you would have to enable the no-cockpit view for all AI planes and provide the look-down bombsight view for the bombers.

TAGERT.
02-19-2005, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skycat_2:
This really isn't my fight, Leadspitter, because I don't play online but very rarely ...

I know how desireable it is to some that _all_ planes be flyable, and this proposal just seems to me like you're trying to break down the wall. Will making the AI 'flyable' in a rough-hewn, simplified state satisfy people? No, it will only open Oleg to a new round of demands and criticisms.

Let's imagine that the MC.202 is made flyable but with no cockpit. Okay, I've been wanting this plane since IL-2 ... now its flyable but the FM is crappy. "Oleg: Please tweak the roll rate on the MC.202! Oleg! The weapons on the Maachi are too weak! Oleg! I can't climb in the 202!" Etc., etc., etc.

So then Leadspitter will have to remind me that there are no more patches for FB+AEP+PF and my MC.202 will have to stay 'as is,' a bonus from 1C:MG.

Then somebody else thinks, "The MC.202 is already flyable ... How about a cockpit?" This becomes a petition in ORR under the title _Give us cockpits Oleg!_

Leadspitter then has to remind a whole bunch of people that the cockpitless planes with the crappy FMs are a bonus from 1C:MG games.

Now Johnny Noobie buys FB+AEP+PF and can't understand why his MC.202 -- which is flyable! -- has no cockpit. "Oleg, this sim is broken! Oleg, please fix the MC.202! Oleg is a jerk because I paid for a flyable MC.202!"

And Leadspitter posts a " http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif " and explains once again that the 'broken' planes with the really crappy FMs are free bonuses from the kind Russian developer who is now starting to market his next sim ...

I sympathize with everybody who wants a flyable TBM or Hawk 75 or whatever ... honestly. I just think this is a poor idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You didnt read it very well.. Lead didnt ask to make the AI planes flyable, he asked to have the no-cockpit view (wonder woman view) enabled for the AI planes. Big difference, in that currently NO AI PLANES ARE FLYABLE! NONE! NADA! ZIP! From the game itself! The ONLY way you can make an AI plane flyable is by making use of an UNDOCUMENTED FEATURE and MANUALY editing a mission file with a 3rd party tool (text editor). With that said, when and if any nood complains to Oleg about the performance of an AI plane, Oleg can simply do what he has allways done.. Disregard it because it is NOT SUPPORTED! Thus not expcted to work in the first place.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-19-2005, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Anyone that dissagrees is ignorant! For two manin reasons!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree and I don't consider myself ignorant. My opinion is that this is going to result in more pissing and moaning than anything else. Its not a matter of staying away from servers its a matter of having to stay away from these forums after players start flying these things. The flight models on the AI planes are horrible, and since some of the planes haven't been updated since much earlier versions of the game they lack the more advanced damage models. All people will want is for these planes to be fixed, I would want them fixed if we had them to fly, but it just doesn't seem worth taking away from whatever limited development this game has left to implement and fix this.

Da_Godfatha
02-19-2005, 04:54 PM
Maybe that way we can finally fly the P-36/Hawk 75.

F19_Orheim
02-19-2005, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
So F all those whinie bastages that say no to this idea! They are just ignorant!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow Tagert, you are such an astoundingly Nice and Pleasant Fellow. I wish I knew you in person. You really know how to make an argument and convince people they are mistaken. I am sure that after this well written statement all nay-sayers really realize how wrong they are and change their mind.

PS I am sure Leadspitter is very happy to have you on his side to help him change sceptic's opinions.

LeadSpitter_
02-19-2005, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
No, defeats the whole purpose of flight simulation in my book. But that just me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How does it defeat the purpose of the whole game ivan? especially you who hosts external only coops but with cockpit enabled.

Its all a matter of options and choices being added which brings nothing but good. For the people who voted no you are the same people ruining the possibilities of the simulation and taking so much away from the community.

Like ornhiem posted in his video from many patches ago ai were capable of doing things like that doesnt mean we are as human pilots even with ai fms, the planes still have close to the best data they can have but ai will make it perform differently on ace.

This would no way take anything away from the game what so ever but add to it.

And like I said before it doesnt force anyone to fly with them, its all personal preferences.

Me personally i would like to see medium clouds removed, externals views removed except when dead, labels and padlock removed from game and bail refly immediatly removed. Thats my choice and Im able to do that.

But everyone has different choices of the game settings and we have full control over what we choose.

Ai are such a complete waste of excellent models and the data for fms is already put in.

I for one would not care whatso ever if i was in a pto server with no externals labels forced cockpit view and each team had the kate and avenger flying from no cockpit view.

But thats my choice and im sure others wouldnt like that but many would.

Voting no against this makes no sense at all. Before this game is finished for good and done with recieving no more patches this definatly needs to be done.

UBI its your choice and makes me think twice about buying ubi games in the future.

Especially BOB seeing how the emil 20mm and 8 .303s are modeled in this game which is going to be the main weapons in battle of britian between the hurricane spit mk1 and emils.

So ubi please make this option available, it brings more choice to the game.

Put it this way if ai had the center view with just gunsite how many people would try them out. Im sure every **** person who has bought this game would on or offline.

there is still many squads who fly with the ez settings dont mean they are noobs just what they choose and this would be a huge improvement for the many servers who fly the no cockpit and externals on servers. This would help so much in the movie making forum as well as the skins forum all bringing improvements to the game.

Im sure there will be servers which dont allow any with full difficulty settings and the 2-3 pacific servers would definatly use a couple of the ai from centerview/gunsite in thier servers.

tigertalon
02-19-2005, 06:44 PM
I'm in favour. You said it all, LS.

Skycat_2
02-19-2005, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
You didnt read it very well.. Lead didnt ask to make the AI planes flyable, he asked to have the no-cockpit view (wonder woman view) enabled for the AI planes. Big difference, in that currently NO AI PLANES ARE FLYABLE! NONE! NADA! ZIP! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Whatchoo talkin' about, Willis?

Isn't Leadspitter proposing to give the player the option to fly any currently AI-only plane ... but without a cockpit? What good would enabling the Wonder Woman View be then otherwise?

Seriously, I really don't see too many different ways to interpret LS's opening sentences:

"Im asking you again can you please make all the ai flyable from internals with no cockpit view enabled in both locked cockpit servers and no locked cockpit servers.
I understand the fms of these aircraft are not fully tweaked but the benefit of having all these ac flyable online is immessurable even with the advantage of having no cockpits."

MaxMhz
02-19-2005, 10:44 PM
the question (poll) is simple
AI Planes (non-flyable now if you dont edit mis file) flyable without cockpit (wonder woman view ONLY) yes or no

don't make more of it

If for nothing else...

it would be like "flying" the planes "promised" and not "delivered"...
it would also mean US torpedo bombers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

A far better and much more needed solution would be to make devicelink work online - and faster response too !

Only if you have a devicelink with 0.1 second response (suggestion) you can have an external cockpit (HARDWARE) respond intime http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif - and if you have hardware respond - sim will be first (software devicelink) lol so... think again...

c - i can drift too... the good way !

TAGERT.
02-19-2005, 11:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
I disagree <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As do I

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
and I don't consider myself ignorant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Most that are dont.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
My opinion is that this is going to result in more pissing and moaning than anything else. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You say that as if AI planes are not flyable now.. News flash.. They are flyable, as long as you take adv of the undocumented feature.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
Its not a matter of staying away from servers its a matter of having to stay away from these forums after players start flying these things. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>News flash.. people can and do fly them now. Yet I dont see ONE post in any forum pissing or moaning about any aspect of the AI planes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
The flight models on the AI planes are horrible, and since some of the planes haven't been updated since much earlier versions of the game they lack the more advanced damage models. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>News flash.. people can and do fly them now. Yet I dont see ONE post in any forum pissing or moaning about the state of the AI damage models's.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
All people will want is for these planes to be fixed, I would want them fixed if we had them to fly, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>News flash.. people can and do fly them now. And I dont see ONE post in any forum pissing or moaning about the state of the AI FM's.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
but it just doesn't seem worth taking away from whatever limited development this game has left to implement and fix this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>To some who are ignorant.

TAGERT.
02-19-2005, 11:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Wow Tagert, you are such an astoundingly Nice and Pleasant Fellow. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agree 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
I wish I knew you in person. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Take a number.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
You really know how to make an argument and convince people they are mistaken. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
I am sure that after this well written statement all nay-sayers really realize how wrong they are and change their mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
PS I am sure Leadspitter is very happy to have you on his side to help him change sceptic's opinions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

TAGERT.
02-19-2005, 11:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skycat_2:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Whatchoo talkin' about, Willis?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It is generally *understood* by people who make missions (aka non-ignorant) taht the only way to make an AI plane flyable is to manually edit the mission file. It is an un-documented feature that has been around sense IL2. The neat thing about it being an un-documented feature is that it is also un-supported! That way Oleg does not have to listen to anyone Beyaaaaaaaach about the FM or DM or anything.. You aint supose to be flying them anyways. With that said, I made the mistake of assuming that Lead was not ignorat about the method of enabling the flying of AI planes, and was thus just asking for the non-cockpit (wonder woman) view to be enabled as the standard cockpit view for all AI planes. If Lead thinks Oleg is going to make the AI planes part of the plane set for you to fly.. That is make doable without manually editing the mission file.. Thus no need for the undocumented feature.. Well then he is CRAZY!!

madsarmy
02-20-2005, 01:10 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">The Community </span>

ignorant

adj 1: lacking general education or knowledge; "an ignorant man"; "nescient of contemporary literature"; "an unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues"; "exhibiting contempt for his unlettered companions" [syn: nescient, unenlightened, unlearned, unlettered] 2: ignorant of the fundamentals of a given art or branch of knowledge; "ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "musically illiterate" [syn: illiterate] 3: lacking basic knowledge; "how can someone that age be so ignorant?"; "inexperienced and new to the real world" [syn: inexperienced] 4: used of things; lacking sense or awareness; "ignorant hope"; "fine innocent weather" [syn: innocent] 5: lacking knowledge or skill; "unversed in the jargon of the social scientist" [syn: unversed] [ant: versed] 6: lacking information or knowledge; "an unknowledgeable assistant" [syn: unknowledgeable, unknowing, unwitting]


<span class="ev_code_RED">TAGERT</span>

arrogant

Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

DarthBane_
02-20-2005, 03:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I know you have said no to this before oleg, but since the game FB/aep/PF is coming to and end. Im asking you again can you please make all the ai flyable from internals with no cockpit view enabled in both locked cockpit servers and no locked cockpit servers.


I understand the fms of these aircraft are not fully tweaked but the benefit of having all these ac flyable online is immessurable even with the advantage of having no cockpits.

The hosts can always choose what aircraft they allow into thier games and lock those out which they choose so it would not be a problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%!
Anyone that dissagrees is ignorant! For two manin reasons!

1) nobody is forcing you to fly an AI plane
2) nobody is forcing you to fly in a server with AI planes

The main reason I want this done is so you can have a no-external DF server and make use of AI bombers. Like the B17 and others. Oleg, dont listen to the extream example people that cant sleep at night in fear of ever server on HL being converted to a Wonder Woman AI figher server.. IT WONT HAPPEN! The only effect it will have is you will see a few more bombers ilke the B17 running around in the existing servers. Remember, it is an option, and undocument at that! So F all those whinie bastages that say no to this idea! They are just ignorant!

But, to make it real useful you would have to enable the no-cockpit view for all AI planes and provide the look-down bombsight view for the bombers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like your post, specialy the part about ignorant people who have problems with wide choices. I am sick of that group and kind of people. When i think again i would like to get medieval on their a$$es. With lots of fun instruments.

F19_Orheim
02-20-2005, 04:35 AM
Tagert.

Learn to spell and how to use your mother tounge correctly Tagert, before you accuse others for beeing ignorant.

I don't know your story Tagart, supposedly living in the Land of the Free, but I was raised not to spit at others for having a second opinion. I thought this was a sacred ideal in the country of your's, I might be wrong.

Getting smart and rude, not to say arrogant, NEVER benefit a debate. The only thing you achieve is provoking readers of your posts, getting sick of your manners rather than focusing on the real topic: Flyable "No cockpit" AI or not.

Unfortunately your rude ways reflect your parents' upbringing. Think about it. Now, instead of throwing around smart remarks and abuses, continue with your real legitimate arguments instead. They are quite enough and well-founded. Skip the attitude - it is counter-productive.

TAGERT.
02-20-2005, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madsarmy:
<span class="ev_code_RED">TAGERT</span>

arrogant

Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That and a bag of chips!

TAGERT.
02-20-2005, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
I like your post, specialy the part about ignorant people who have problems with wide choices. I am sick of that group and kind of people. When i think again i would like to get medieval on their a$$es. With lots of fun instruments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would be down with that! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I wish they would have a IL2-PF convention! They use to do that in Warbirds! Be neat to take my 6'4" 225lb ars and stand next to some of these neards.. Would put a whole new tone in thier next post! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
02-20-2005, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
I like your post, specialy the part about ignorant people who have problems with wide choices. I am sick of that group and kind of people. When i think again i would like to get medieval on their a$$es. With lots of fun instruments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would be down with that! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I wish they would have a IL2-PF convention! They use to do that in Warbirds! Be neat to take my 6'4" 225lb ars and stand next to some of these neards.. Would put a whole new tone in thier next post! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm 6'3" and 215lb so bring on the convention.

TAGERT.
02-20-2005, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Tagert.

Learn to spell and how to use your mother tounge correctly Tagert, before you accuse others for beeing ignorant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm sorry Orheim.. Where you operating under the impression that I claimed to not be ignorant? I am ignorant about many things in life! Spellin is just one of many.. But on the topic at hand I am not ignorant. <span class="ev_code_RED">(PS you spelled "tongue" and "being" wrong, guess I'm not the only one ignorant about spellin)</span>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
I don't know your story Tagart, supposedly living in the Land of the Free, but I was raised not to spit at others for having a second opinion. I thought this was a sacred ideal in the country of your's, I might be wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not wrong, just ignorant. In that you don't seem to realize that an OPINION of anothers OPINION is just an OPINION. Note, I never said they could not have an OPINION, I simply pointed out that in my OPINION anyone who says NO is ignorant. I'm sure this is new to you in your country where after the first guy (leader) speaks his opinion no body else (the people) has one, let along one about his.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Getting smart and rude, not to say arrogant, NEVER benefit a debate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is your opinion, one I disagree with 100%.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
The only thing you achieve is provoking readers of your posts, getting sick of your manners rather than focusing on the real topic: Flyable "No cockpit" AI or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And in doing so PROVING my point of their ignorance.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Unfortunately your rude ways reflect your parents' upbringing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And what does it say of your upbringing to bring peoples parents into the topic? What kind of troll did you parents produce?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Think about it. Now, instead of throwing around smart remarks and abuses, continue with your real legitimate arguments instead. They are quite enough and well-founded. Skip the attitude - it is counter-productive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm sorry.. Orheim, were you under the false impression that I give a RAT A$$ about what you think? Just know that I dont!

By the way, you might want to take your own advice and leave out the comments on people country, parrents, etc. In that it is.. how did you say it? It is counter-productive... But that is just my opinion, one that Im sure a troll would disagree with.

Medvedya
02-20-2005, 11:52 AM
Can't see what's to debate about simplified cockpits for the rest of the A.I planes - it sounds like a fun idea, so why not do it?

F19_Orheim
02-20-2005, 02:42 PM
Tagert.

True, commenting your parent's capability to raise a decent, openminded and somewhat mature individual was really un-called for. For that remark I apologize. I also kind of regret for reacting on any of your outbursts of rudeness and namecallings. It should be quite obvious that it is attention you seek and obviously I took your bait. Stupid me.

In the end I congratulate you for being such a mature adult who can comfortably call people around you "whinie bastages" and "ignorant". Also glad that you give enough rat's a$$ about what I think as you were kind enough go to some length in order to respond to my post about your person.

With a lot of love and understanding.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
//Orheim

MEGILE
02-20-2005, 03:19 PM
When the argument turns to spelling, you know the thread just turned ghey.

TAGERT.
02-20-2005, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Tagert.

True, commenting your parent's capability to raise a decent, openminded and somewhat mature individual was really un-called for. For that remark I apologize. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank You, even though you managed to do it in a back handed troll way, it is still appreciated. I also noticed you failed to apologize for the snide country remarks, and the snide spelling comments.. Oh well, 1 out of 3 aint bad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
I also kind of regret for reacting on any of your outbursts of rudeness and namecallings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I also regret your outburst.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
It should be quite obvious that it is attention you seek and obviously I took your bait. Stupid me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually it was not stupid of you as much as it was clearly just trollish of you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
In the end I congratulate you for being such a mature adult who can comfortably call people around you "whinie bastages" and "ignorant". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks! But coming from you it really does not mean much to me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Also glad that you give enough rat's a$$ about what I think as you were kind enough go to some length in order to respond to my post about your person. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No problem.. It was my pleasure pointing out *your* spelling errors moments after you pointed out mine.. I found it very funny!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
With a lot of love and understanding.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Same here, Good luck in your fishing! But, this old fish knows the smell of your bait, you might want to move onto another fishing hole?

F19_Orheim
02-20-2005, 03:47 PM
For the record, no wise crack pinpoints about your country from me, I have the deepest respect for those basic ideals and your homecountry, just didn't find you live up to one of those ideals.

TAGERT.
02-20-2005, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
For the record, no wise crack pinpoints about your country from me, I have the deepest respect for those basic ideals and your homecountry, just didn't find you live up to one of those ideals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure you do, Shall I post a link to another thread (fishing hole) where your *style* of fishing (bait) might work? Or can you find one on your own?

F19_Orheim
02-20-2005, 05:18 PM
sorry guys... TAGERT and I are going private with this.

TAGERT.
02-20-2005, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
sorry guys... TAGERT and I are going private with this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm flattered! But sorry, I dont swing that way.

gombal40
02-21-2005, 01:31 AM
yes you do. Funny little man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mispunt
02-21-2005, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megile:
When the argument turns to spelling, you know the thread just turned ghey. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Great line, that should be forever nailed to the gates of this forum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It's a real shame this thread had turn into nation bashing because I raised this issue some time ago as well and would love to see it implemented.
I see the point in the reasons mentioned against it (whining) but I'm not convinced this will ruin these forums anymore than they already are. It's not the low and medium difficulty players that are the most passionate about this game. And a feature like this will surely only appeal to them. Calling them uninformed, misguided or plain wrong is besides the point since it's up to yourself to decide how you like your hot lead served.

Medvedya
02-21-2005, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mispunt:
Calling them uninformed, misguided or plain wrong is besides the point since it's up to yourself to decide how you like your hot lead served. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because they're autistic geeks. They think they have a monopoly on the whole genre because they can play sucessfully at some fantastically difficult setting.

Now, that's their call, and normally I wouldn't mind them at all, except they loudly try to influence their conceptions on how to play the game as being the only ones with any value.

Well, you know what? I like flying on medium settings, I like to be able to chuck a crate about without fear of it dropping out of the sky, I like to see where I am on a helpful tactical map. And I would especially like to try some more planes. So geeks, why don't you just go and record another episode of Star Trek and stop trying to put the kibosh on something that won't affect the way you play the game anyway.

Ach go on, tell me to go and fly MS all you like, but I happen to want to play this one, and it's not your private little fiefdom as much as you would want it to be so.

GreyBeast
02-21-2005, 04:52 PM
Tagert, you're an Arschloch! Now go and learn German!

F19_Orheim, what on Earth is that "K-4 Flip" thingy? Care to explain? Can I do that with a P-39? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

p1ngu666
02-21-2005, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medvedya:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mispunt:
Calling them uninformed, misguided or plain wrong is besides the point since it's up to yourself to decide how you like your hot lead served. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because they're autistic geeks. They think they have a monopoly on the whole genre because they can play sucessfully at some fantastically difficult setting.

Now, that's their call, and normally I wouldn't mind them at all, except they loudly try to influence _their_ conceptions on how to play the game as being the only ones with any value.

Well, you know what? I _like_ flying on medium settings, I _like_ to be able to chuck a crate about without fear of it dropping out of the sky, I _like_ to see where I am on a helpful tactical map. And I would especially like to try some more planes. So geeks, why don't you just go and record another episode of Star Trek and stop trying to put the kibosh on something that won't affect the way you play the game anyway.

Ach go on, tell me to go and fly MS all you like, but I happen to want to play this one, and it's not your private little fiefdom as much as you would want it to be so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

good post med http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Medvedya
02-21-2005, 06:38 PM
Hey Pingu - phew! I'm relieved to see that there is some sanity out there in Ubiland.

As for everyone else, believe it or not, I'm not trolling. I will give as good as I get if you violently disagree with me though.

This is because this is the main place to get your voice heard with regard to how your want the 'Endgame' of the Il2 series to be.

Oleg and Co are going to pull up the shutters after this patch. I'm disappointed sure, but if that's how things are going to be, then that's that.

With that being the case, I would like to see as many new planes and features as possible stuck in there before 'last orders' is rung. If what I write treads on some toes in the process, then I take the view that those are toes that need to be trod on anyway.

p1ngu666
02-21-2005, 07:26 PM
imo, there will be more patches
hes taking 3d party models till "mid march"
so who knows?

imo, u shouldnt rag on how others play, unless it ruins your fun dirctly...

Scragbat
02-21-2005, 09:15 PM
Is it just me or has this turned a little ugly?

I like the idea. If there is no modelled cockpit for AI but they can be flyable externally then a no-cockpit view would be a nice addition/option.

...but if a hosted server is cockpit only then I don't think AI with no-cockpit should be selectable. The balance wouldn't be right. It would have to be a cockpit off server...

Does the bug still remain with an AI aircraft remaining flyable after pilot has bailed?? Always thought that was a bit funny...

TAGERT.
02-21-2005, 09:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreyBeast:
Tagert, you're an Arschloch! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>GreyBeast you are under the false impression that I care what you think!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreyBeast:
Now go and learn German! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No need, in that I lived in Germany for 4 years, My grand mother an father on my fathers side were born in Germany, and my Great grand father and mother on my mother side were born in Germany.. With that said, and considering what happen to Germany after the 2nd world war.. I have more German blood in my veins then over half the Germans living in Germany.

So laufen Sie entlang Kind, Erwachsene sprechen hier!

And know that I thank god every night I was not born there or live then now!

F19_Orheim
02-22-2005, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreyBeast:
Tagert, you're an Arschloch! Now go and learn German!

F19_Orheim, what on Earth is that "K-4 Flip" thingy? Care to explain? Can I do that with a P-39? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's a AI K4 flipping back on a player who made an avi of the track just to point out some of the flaws of the AI FM.

gombal40
02-22-2005, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreyBeast:
Tagert, you're an Arschloch! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>GreyBeast you are under the false impression that I care what you think!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreyBeast:
Now go and learn German! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No need, in that I lived in Germany for 4 years, My grand mother an father on my fathers side were born in Germany, and my Great grand father and mother on my mother side were born in Germany.. With that said, and considering what happen to Germany after the 2nd world war.. I have more German blood in my veins then over half the Germans living in Germany.

So laufen Sie entlang Kind, Erwachsene sprechen hier!

And know that I thank god every night I was not born there or live then now! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i bet all of germany does to.

TAGERT.
02-22-2005, 12:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gombal40:
i bet all of germany does to. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As if I care!

GreyBeast
02-22-2005, 03:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:

That's a AI K4 flipping back on a player who made an avi of the track just to point out some of the flaws of the AI FM. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty amazing, never seen anything like it. Thanks for the info.

LeadSpitter_
02-23-2005, 02:42 AM
bmp to ubi

Recon_609IAP
02-24-2005, 04:42 AM
I'd rather have a 'default' cockpit than no cockpit at all

IF they were code anything for IL2 it would be to have moving objects and targets in dogfight maps, but that is another topic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LeadSpitter_
02-24-2005, 08:00 PM
I would too recon but one fighter pit and one bomberpit but thats too much work for them, I think this is a good solution to improve the game for alot of people offline and online especially the wonderwoman crowd who been flying ai externally since day one.

TAGERT.
02-24-2005, 09:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I would too recon but one fighter pit and one bomberpit but thats too much work for them, I think this is a good solution to improve the game for alot of people offline and online especially the wonderwoman crowd who been flying ai externally since day one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Anyone ever bother to send the request to Oleg direct via the bug email? (I know Ivan, only for bugs, but, *this* is important! <G&gthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I know I have started and seen a few posts on this.. But has Oleg ever been sent a direct request? If so, did he reply?

The190Flyer
02-25-2005, 02:00 PM
with no cockpit wouldn't be too bad, with cockpit would be nice but there would be waaaayy to much code and space taken up. Would you have wonderwoman view then?,most likely?
I don't really see any advantage of it besides fighters. Bombers in pit would be useless, plus the planes that are AI are mostly early war planes, besides actual pilot planes like Hartmann 109 and Nowotny 262. No I don't think Oleg should waste his time on it, he already has enough on his plate as it is.

LeadSpitter_
02-27-2005, 07:37 PM
I dont think the ai german and russian aces would be done becuase the planes are flyable in the game already with cockpit but the others would add alot to the game since we cant have ai controlled ac in dogfight servers and set paths for them to bomb or patrol

But as for bombers the russian u2 pe2 3 sbs b25 varients etc would be very usefull, being in a bomber is a disadvantage anyways, I would really have no problem with someone having nocockpit advatage in a bomber.

TAGERT.
02-28-2005, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
But as for bombers the russian u2 pe2 3 sbs b25 varients etc would be very usefull, being in a bomber is a disadvantage anyways, I would really have no problem with someone having nocockpit advatage in a bomber. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I feel the same way about the bombers.. That and SA is not a something buff pilots needed like a figher pilot did. The WW view is totally accetable to me if your flying a bomber.. In that a bomber is a team effort.. You not only have a copilot, but all the gunners feeding you infomation.. Thus, the all seeing eye of the WW view is a good compermise for not having those other things simulated.

MOhz
02-28-2005, 05:38 PM
lol has anyone looked at the polls?? and has anyone been manipulating?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

DarthBane_
03-02-2005, 04:16 PM
It is imossible to be a normal person and vote NO for this idea. I saw voting results and feel dissapointed for visiting forums together with people who vote NO about this wonderfull posibility that can be turned off acording to personal taste. Imagine a mission with Me Giant or rescue mission with flying boats. Whats up with some of you? Dont ever try it if you dont want, but let others try if they wish. I bet some of you never tried anal sex with women? Visiting church too often? Bothering people who smoke because you dont? Ever tried to steal in supermarkt or some other place? Spending too much time with people over 50 years old?

Medvedya
03-02-2005, 04:39 PM
As I've always said, with some people it's either their way or no way. It's just horrid and spiteful.