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Tvrdi
09-11-2005, 04:20 AM
now, in warclouds its usual procedure now on the red side -when they are chased by someone they goes into deliberate wild stall just above the ground and just to quick recover....p51 and spit drivers in front of others...this is not likely to happen in RL? to go into deliberate f-ing stall above the ground just to recover in a sec... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Tvrdi
09-11-2005, 04:20 AM
now, in warclouds its usual procedure now on the red side -when they are chased by someone they goes into deliberate wild stall just above the ground and just to quick recover....p51 and spit drivers in front of others...this is not likely to happen in RL? to go into deliberate f-ing stall above the ground just to recover in a sec... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

F0_Dark_P
09-11-2005, 04:35 AM
No guts no glory http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tvrdi
09-11-2005, 04:39 AM
guts? it would be very stupid and unlikly to happen in WW2 ---> certain death...

Christos_swc
09-11-2005, 04:46 AM
I've never heard of this tactic in real life as being recomended or frequently used by anyone.
Of course that doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't be done.
But they didn't have the luxury of crashing to the ground and hitting refly so...
I don't mind it though because all I want in a fight is the E advantage and they can stall all they want.
It makes for a good target too.

SeaFireLIV
09-11-2005, 04:51 AM
The manouever was probably possible except that pilot sin real life wouldn`t risk their necks doing it. Fact is, virtual pilots do not fear death and know of most their rides well enough to get away with this. Some do in fact DO FAIL and hit the ground.

You Luftwaffe jockeys have enough advantages over us without trying to ruin our slim chance of survival even more by ranting because you failed to down yet another allied plane with ease.

Badsight.
09-11-2005, 05:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tvrdi:
now, in warclouds .............this is not likely to happen in RL? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>so you were playing Airquake & your worrying about what you see not being possible IRL ?

come on man , its Airquake !

F19_Olli72
09-11-2005, 05:40 AM
Lol! not likely to happen in RL???

Be sure to pass that question on to the FW190 fishfloppers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

WTE_Ibis
09-11-2005, 05:56 AM
Ah, little children do squabble a lot don't they??
I wonder what they would do if their toys were taken away alltogether, probably bang their head on the ground no doubt.


.

F19_Olli72
09-11-2005, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
Ah, little children do squabble a lot don't they??
I wonder what they would do if their toys were taken away alltogether, probably bang their head on the ground no doubt.
. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe wasnt there a video posted of that long time ago? Cant recall the title but it sure was funny http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BSS_CUDA
09-11-2005, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tvrdi:
now, in warclouds its usual procedure now on the red side -when they are chased by someone they goes into deliberate wild stall just above the ground and just to quick recover....p51 and spit drivers in front of others...this is not likely to happen in RL? to go into deliberate f-ing stall above the ground just to recover in a sec... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


and here I thought this was going to be a Red thread whinning about the 190's, if you see any Red's doing this they learned it from watching the 190 pilots. Thx blue http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

antifreeze
09-11-2005, 07:22 AM
I think what you may be seeing are snap stalls caused by allied planes trying to out-turn the uber bf109s and pushing the envelope too far. I think the pilots don't WANT to stall, and they aren't doing it on purpose. It may have a side-effect that the enemy overshoots and has to come back round, but who in their right mind would sacrifice all that energy and speed for getting the enemy off your six for twenty seconds? Stalling as a tactic does not ever make sense.

On a personal note, at 320kmph, I feel that a Spit should be able to out-turn a bf109 down low, but it doesn't (or at least, I can't make it, whereas pre-patch I usually could without stalling). I haven't bothered to fly since the beginning of summer because of this patch, and I see that Hyperlobby numbers are down by about 200 from the pre-patch too, so I'm probably not the only one who thinks it's poor. I hope the approaching patch (which is the only reason I'm browsing the forums again and had a fly last night) will do some justice for gameplay, and then maybe you won't see so many snap spins.

BSS_CUDA
09-11-2005, 07:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Antifreeze:
I think what you may be seeing are snap stalls caused by allied planes trying to out-turn the uber bf109s and pushing the envelope too far. I think the pilots don't WANT to stall, and they aren't doing it on purpose. It may have a side-effect that the enemy overshoots and has to come back round, but who in their right mind would sacrifice all that energy and speed for getting the enemy off your six for twenty seconds? Stalling as a tactic does not ever make sense.

On a personal note, at 320kmph, I feel that a Spit should be able to out-turn a bf109 down low, but it doesn't (or at least, I can't make it, whereas pre-patch I usually could without stalling). I haven't bothered to fly since the beginning of summer because of this patch, and I see that Hyperlobby numbers are down by about 200 from the pre-patch too, so I'm probably not the only one who thinks it's poor. I hope the approaching patch (which is the only reason I'm browsing the forums again and had a fly last night) will do some justice for gameplay, and then maybe you won't see so many snap spins. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cant say why the red pilots snap spin or when it happens. what I can say is what I see with the blue and the 190's, it is common practice to watch a 190 pilot intentionally snap spin it to clear his tail. I've seen it hundreds of times while in level flight if you get on their 6. bang snap spin stall and recovery, I've seen it as low as 300 feet and they managed to pull out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
flying the 38 a spin of anykind can be death below 2000ft they just dont like to recover, I do know that the Mustang, Hellcat, and Corsair all have a NASTY snap spin when you pull too hard on the stick, you can't yank and bank with them, the Spit I cant speak for I haven't flown it since 4.01, but the snap stall is a tool of the 190's, can't say I've seen the 109 pilots do it. at least not as much or as easy

LStarosta
09-11-2005, 07:52 AM
If Machiavelli was around, he'd rip Turdi a new one for posting something so stupid...

FatBoyHK
09-11-2005, 09:10 AM
I don't think it is intentional, it won't bring you out of the trouble, it just bring you from one trouble to an even bigger trouble....

And as far as I can see, blue pilot did that a lot too. It is quite ridicious to see a 109 snap spin on the deck, recover immediately with virtually no loss of alt and speed, and then try to follow me in a zoom climb. I was defeated by this tactics once, and after that I learnt to keep my throttle wide open when attacking a 109.... this tactics never bothered me again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tully__
09-11-2005, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and I see that Hyperlobby numbers are down by about 200 from the pre-patch too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
HL numbers are always down during the northern hemisphere summer. People go outside and get a life instead while it's warm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

NonWonderDog
09-11-2005, 10:25 AM
Ok, come on. HOW MANY times have we been through this?

Once a week we get a thread saying "stalling on purpose is arcade!!!!!!!" and everyone agrees.

Once a week we get a thread saying "snap rolls in the FW190 aren't controllable enough!!!!!!!!" and everyone agrees.

A snap roll *IS* a stall. Snap rolls are simple maneuvers (accellerated stall with full aileron and rudder...) that were used rather frequently as a last ditch method to shake pursuers. That means that "stalling on purpose" was a simple maneuver used rather frequently as a last ditch method to shake pursuers. There's nothing arcade about it.

SeaFireLIV
09-11-2005, 10:57 AM
It`s the old `them and us` thing. Look around and you`ll see a `make the 0.50s tougher` another will say Allied planes do `incredible stalls`. FW190s too tough or P51s are UBER.

Stupid, selfish posts which are all about bias (my fave plane) and not about helping create a great flight sim.

MEGILE
09-11-2005, 11:03 AM
This thread gets an 11 on the 1-10 silly scale.

edgflyer
09-11-2005, 11:32 AM
I agree that the stall characteristics are a bit extreme on the american aircraft. I would love if the stall was toned down alot more in the allied planes. (And the fifties un-synced)

Kuna15
09-11-2005, 11:54 AM
The only good player can get from intentional stall is to delay, now certain death due to complete loss of energy. Because player chasing him will zoom up above him and then finish him up from above.

However there are some cases where it can in fact be very helpfull; if friendlies are rushing for help, then every second matters...

Jaws2002
09-11-2005, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
It`s the old `them and us` thing. Look around and you`ll see a `make the 0.50s tougher` another will say Allied planes do `incredible stalls`. FW190s too tough or P51s are UBER.

Stupid, selfish posts which are all about bias (my fave plane) and not about helping create a great flight sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% agree.

Pirschjaeger
09-11-2005, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tvrdi:
now, in warclouds its usual procedure now on the red side -when they are chased by someone they goes into deliberate wild stall just above the ground and just to quick recover....p51 and spit drivers in front of others...this is not likely to happen in RL? to go into deliberate f-ing stall above the ground just to recover in a sec... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


and here I thought this was going to be a Red thread whinning about the 190's, if you see any Red's doing this they learned it from watching the 190 pilots. Thx blue http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've done this many times in the 190. It works well but only if your enemy is close enough.

Fritz

VFS-22_SPaRX
09-11-2005, 12:44 PM
It puts a smile on my face when i see my foe stall, intentional or not. He will lose speed and altitude to recover from this stall. Hence a loss of "E". Now I have an even greater advantage.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GR142_Astro
09-11-2005, 01:48 PM
Quite well put Antifreeze.

That plane is your sig is one of the few allied planes left that can challenge the 109Gs on any level, and it probably performs better than it should. When a LaGG3 can eat up a Yak3, your game has gotten out of whack Oleg.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-11-2005, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tvrdi:
now, in warclouds its usual procedure now on the red side -when they are chased by someone they goes into deliberate wild stall just above the ground and just to quick recover....p51 and spit drivers in front of others...this is not likely to happen in RL? to go into deliberate f-ing stall above the ground just to recover in a sec... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG! You can not be serious T. This has been the LW move of choice for years. You never heard of the ole FW fish-flop? BF-109s have always done this and most pilots still do. We all thought it would vanish with the new FM...and it did in the betas but in 4.01 its back. LW planes do not suffer from any torque. Allied pilots may do this as well but to say its an Allied only maneuver is just BS. Attempt this maneuver in your 109 and you get the same results. If you doubt this is possible I can post tracks of pulling this maneuver off in just about every plane in the game.

Point being is the betas have been the best patches we ever had. If anyone tried the 05beta of new FM then they know what Im talking about. It may have been 03 but I believe it was 05beta indeed.