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BH-21
12-10-2005, 05:30 AM
I was wondering if anyone else was concerned about the blast effect of Japanese bombs, in particular the 250kg bomb. Have you ever dropped one with a D3A1. What should act like a US 500lb bomb has the blast of a 1600lb bomb or bigger. You can level entire villages with one bomb. It would take 1 or 2 flights of SBD's do do the same with 500 pounders. For mission making this is rediculous.

Tater-SW-
12-10-2005, 08:01 AM
I think the blast effect of most bombs is too big, perhaps the 500s are too high.

tater

VW-IceFire
12-10-2005, 08:22 AM
Really? I was half suspecting a topic about how weak the Japanese bombs are.

I mean a D3A has no chance in this game of doing any serious damage to much of anything. You'd need several squadrons to sink a carrier.

BH-21
12-10-2005, 10:44 AM
Well a Val can carry nearly 2000 lbs of bombs. The various bombs are in the game, but you can't mount them on a Val in this sim. Its very irritating if you want to make a Japanese ground attack mission. All of their aircraft that carry this bomb can act like pre atomic bombers, 1 plane = ground target in a 1000m radius. As for ships they would use armor piercing types and like as we would use bigger bombs on armored targets. The Japanese also had incendiary bombs up to the 250kg size. Clearly there is alot of work to do in ordance for all of the nations in this sim. To bad we can't get a trusted fan like Ian Boys to edit things like this and improve the game over all if Oleg is so busy. Its the little errors and bugs that annoy folks.

Tater-SW-
12-10-2005, 01:02 PM
The Val did NOT carry 2000lbs of bombs. It could carry 1x250kg centerline, and 2x60kg on the wings (from Francillon). You must be thinking of another plane.

I was wrong above, I misread the post to be about the US 500s being too powerful, clearly the japanese 250kg is FUBAR. The US 500 is already too powerful (or the ground targets too weak, more likely).

tater

BH-21
12-10-2005, 08:31 PM
Your right. I was looking at the D3A2's difference in clean and max takeoff weigth.

WWSensei
12-11-2005, 09:51 AM
I find it odd some think the 500s are too powerful. I think they are almost completly random. I've dropped a 500 in game less than 10 meters from truck for no damage, but the light tank 200 meters away was destroyed.

IRL I've dropped a MK-82 50 meters from a T-72 destroyed it.

I don't think it's the explosive power that is wrong in the game, but it's calculation of the shockwave that is wrong. It seldom seems to make any sense. I've also noticed a large difference in the same ordinance types between offline and online.

Tater-SW-
12-11-2005, 11:42 AM
yeah, vs the "legitimate" target units in PF I agree, it's pretty random. I think my problem is vs buildings and trees. I hate that a single bomb turns a large piece of a towninto a smouldering ruin. Worse is even the smallest bomb or rocket taking out a grove a trees.

tater

tigertalon
12-11-2005, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Really? I was half suspecting a topic about how weak the Japanese bombs are.

I mean a D3A has no chance in this game of doing any serious damage to much of anything. You'd need several squadrons to sink a carrier.

Agree. However, IMO it's the randomness and unpredictability that would be nice to be fixed when attacking ships.

While a single Judy with 2x250 kg bombs seriously damaged and took out of action Franklin Essex class cruiser, some other smaller escort carriers could withstand 6 kamikaze hits. If you get extremely lucky, you should be able to sink a carrier with a single 500lb bomb IMO. If not, ten tiny tims wouldn't do it.

Tater-SW-
12-11-2005, 09:13 PM
Yeah, well, that's a problem with the ship damage model. Ships are huge, and many factors come into play. Honestly, I think that flight sims should borrow for old-fashioned board/miniatures games and have damage tables for ships. No need to model the interior of the ship in great detail, just copy the damage tables form Harpoon and use those,lol. Spreading fire, and damage control are also huge issues. Failure to model them is to grossly simplify the realities of those kinds of missions. It would be fair to say that the DM of a large ship needs to be at least as complicated as the biggest player-flyable aircraft in game.

tater

LEBillfish
12-11-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
While a single Judy with 2x250 kg bombs seriously damaged and took out of action Franklin Essex class cruiser, some other smaller escort carriers could withstand 6 kamikaze hits. .

Saw (don't know for a fact) that actually Kamikaze attacks did really little damage....The reason was 2 fold. First off, they were trained to attack almost level, the logic there so their controls would not lock up in a high speed dive, so never quite got up to a speed that would have great effect. Secondly, if they did make a successful high speed dive they did little, even the bombs they carried.......As the planes would reach a terminal velocity that was no where near as great as a bomb alone. So essentially like slamming a bottle on the pavement....Both the bomb and plane just doing surface damage.

p1ngu666
12-13-2005, 02:34 PM
think it was the petrol, and debris that did alot of damage, fire is always very dangerous..