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birdy1964
07-25-2007, 02:02 AM
Hello All.
Sorry to bother you guys but I am new to IL2 1946 and I am having trouble with stalling and trimming my plane. Every time i go into a turn or climb i seem to stall alot, any suggestions would be realy appreciated. Thankyou.

birdy1964
07-25-2007, 02:02 AM
Hello All.
Sorry to bother you guys but I am new to IL2 1946 and I am having trouble with stalling and trimming my plane. Every time i go into a turn or climb i seem to stall alot, any suggestions would be realy appreciated. Thankyou.

Klemm.co
07-25-2007, 03:30 AM
You have to be more gentle with the airplane. Which airplane are you flying specifically? It happened to me a lot too after quitting playing the original IL-2 and starting Forgotten Battles. The feeling comes with experience.
You just have to fly the airplane long enough to get the feeling for the airplane. What controller (Joystick) are you using?
The X-52 is very good, for it has two wheels and a slider, very good for flaps and trimming.

Maybe you can post a track and we can point out your errors?

birdy1964
07-25-2007, 04:26 AM
Hello Klemm.co Thankyou for your reply. I am flying lots of different planes but tend to stay with spits and me109 or 190. My joystick is a Logitech extreme 3D pro, don't laugh, it's realy not too bad. I have tried adjusting Joystick settings but still seem to be pulling turns or climbs and suddenley going into spins or stalls. I will definitely try and post a track later today when I get home.I would appreciate any imput.Where shall I post the track to?

scaredycat1
07-25-2007, 04:37 AM
Hi birdy, and Welcome. Like Klemm said it depends on what plane youre flying, each has its own flight moddle. Some you can trim , some you cant. Keeping your airspeed up is important with most.
With planes that have trim its important to trim where it flys straight and level. (hands off the stick)
You might want to choose your favorite plane and stay with it, learn the stengths and weaknesses.

Klemm.co
07-25-2007, 04:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by birdy1964:
Hello Klemm.co Thankyou for your reply. I am flying lots of different planes but tend to stay with spits and me109 or 190. My joystick is a Logitech extreme 3D pro, don't laugh, it's realy not too bad. I have tried adjusting Joystick settings but still seem to be pulling turns or climbs and suddenley going into spins or stalls. I will definitely try and post a track later today when I get home.I would appreciate any imput.Where shall I post the track to? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your choice of panes is good, though the spit is more for fun. I strapped on one recently and was just amazed how easy it was to shoot enemys down in this a/c in comaparison with 190/109. Learn to fly in both, and you can fly all other planes.

I've read that the Logitech Joysticks wear out quite fast but have good quality when you buy them. How long do you have your Logitech? From what i've read they do not hold out longer than three to six months, after that you can get a replacement. Sorry if this worries you, but just in case you dont know.

If you want to post a track you will need a site where you can upload files to like Rapidshare.

If you care to learn the 190, then you will succeed and be satisfied beyond what you ever imagined (i know this sounds cheesy). But foremost you will be very good in other planes (like the Spitfire) also.

birdy1964
07-25-2007, 05:17 AM
Oh my God my stick is 2 years old, I'm doomed for sure now,lol. Yes it wiggles about in it's centered position but I am try to use a joystick programme to buffer the dead spot.It seems to work fine in my other flight sim I fly (Air Attack) but when I play 1946 then the trouble begins http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
07-25-2007, 05:52 AM
Birdy, I'm not sure what you mean by stall as there are many here that think spin is spelled
s-t-a-l-l and don't know when they are actually stalled which is where they should have been
correcting their flight so as not to get into spin.

If your speed is bleeding badly, you are in stall and heading for spin be sure!

Easiest way to get into spin is to fly with some slip, nose not pointing in the direction of
flight. When you are in slip and enter stall, one wing will still first. That wing will have
more drag and soon also less lift so it goes down and back which starts your spin. The idea
is to not be in slip and to not get into stall then you will not enter spin.

How to tell you are in slip? Since you are not inside the plane you do not have body motion
cues and must rely upon visual cues you can learn and your slip guage which you can see how
much slip you have and to what side. For most planes the slip guage is a little ball inside
an upwards curved tube full of fluid though for Spitfires it is a needle guage way down on
the lower right front panel. Most call this guage "the ball" no matter what type it is.

You want to keep the slip guage in center. Then your nose is pointing where you are going
and not off to one side. And always use your rudder to do this. If the ball is off to the
left then you are in right slip, the ball indicates your path, and need to apply left rudder
to put your nose back on your path, always "step on the ball" and use moderation about it
so as not to be jerking and wobbling.

Keeping the ball centered is how you fly "coordinated" and clean. You will make best speed
and acceleration flying coordinated and you will shoot more accurately when coordinated.

A related important thing is to keep your speed up and know how hard you can roll or pull
at any speed while flying coordinated. It does you no good to try and learn that with
varying degrees of slip in real amounts. No good at all. It does help to note how dive
or climb do affect your maneuver limits though because they do and you can take advantage
of that with practice.

Best advice I can give you is to practice flying without combat. Set view forward and down
enough to see your guages including your slip ball or needle and practice flying like that
until you have a solid feel for what is right. If you can get that down, you've just beaten
scads of other players that fly like cr@p while bragging about how many other cr@p players
they have shot down.
Go and find what you can about BCM's (Basic Combat Maneuvers) and ACM's (Advanced etc) and
work on those till you know just how hard you can do each in what conditions of speed, etc,
while losing the least amount of speed. If the speed drops really fast and you are not in
climb then count you are in stall from pulling just a bit to a lot too hard, loosen up on
the stick and take your lesson from it. Just at stall gets you the most lift but the drag
that comes with it is IMO not worth that extra lost energy.

That should get you started clean. Don't jerk the stick and don't hold it back long. Also
don't go far or for long into diagonal moves on the stick as those cost extra in drag.

All of this and more you can find on real life pilot sites if you want to check or get deeper.

birdy1964
07-25-2007, 05:58 AM
Thank M_Gunz, Theres a lot there for thought. I will practice what you suggest and see how I get on.

M_Gunz
07-25-2007, 06:17 AM
I'll tell you this for free. Just for what you learn and the enjoyment of it is worth more
than the sim itself costs. The better you get, the more you will want to learn.

Jaste07
07-25-2007, 07:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sorry to bother you guys </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lol, you obviously haven't seen some of the posts on this forums. Topics like this are a welcome relief!

Yeah the main thing is to be gentle on the controls, if you just snap it sideways and pull the stick all the way back to bank you'll find yourself in a stall real quick.

Also, if you have a few minutes, find an article about energy and how it relates to planes and dogfighting. If you search the forum you should find plenty of topics about energy. (if you find any about "free energy", thats a Raaaid post, feel free to ignore it)
There should be some links to good articles there.

Most of all: find a few planes you like, and practice, practice, practice. One of the best things about this sim is finally figuring out all the tricks with a plane so you're doing immelmans, yo-yo's, spiral climbs and the like with ease in such a detailed flight model.

Good luck! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

M_Gunz
07-25-2007, 01:12 PM
A great place to go heavy duty on the flying aspects:

John Deakin's How It Flies pages! (http://www.av8n.com/how/)

First chapter is on energy management.
WARNING: there's a lot of info there designed to keep real pilots alive and it does get DEEP.

He is fully qualified to write about flying, and then some. Check out his columns at AVWeb,
the Pelican's Perch columns. Find the ones about his time Air America if still a skeptic.

birdy1964
07-25-2007, 04:05 PM
Klemm.co
Hi I've uploaded the ntrk to rapidshare as you suggested, the file is called birdystall_issues.ntrk funnily enough but how do i get the link for it and attach it to my posts? Please help.

birdy1964
07-26-2007, 01:26 PM
Hi Klemm.co and friends just thought I would let you all know I have submitted a newer recording of me trying to trim my plane and the results. See if you have any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The track is called birdystall_issues.ntrk and is at rapidshare but i dont know what to do with it now so you guys can view it? please spare the time and have a look if you can or let me know what I need to do to let you guys see it. oh and please dont laugh at my limited flying ability's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
07-26-2007, 03:04 PM
Rapidshare does not seem to have a search feature and Google only finds your posts here.
You might want to read Rapidshare docs, esp look for FAQ's. Even if I knew your account
name I would still need your password and you don't want to hand those out.

If your ISP gives you public space for a homepage, it's not hard to set that up.

One thing about tracks, they take a lot less space zipped or better yet, winrar'ed.

Waldo.Pepper
07-26-2007, 03:08 PM
Do not use rapidshare....

Z share is far easier/better.

It will generate a link (in blue that you can cut and paste) into your messages here.

http://www.zshare.net/

Thusly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/shemale/gotcha.jpg

birdy1964
07-27-2007, 03:03 AM
Thankyou for that waldo, I'll send my .ntrk there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

birdy1964
07-27-2007, 03:12 AM
Thankyou M_Gunz I should have remebered to zip it first, what an idiot I am. I'll try againhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
07-27-2007, 03:45 AM
Since I don't know if you did zip it but so many times I've been emailed very large tracks
before, I just thought to mention that in case.

Not saying you are an idiot. To not know things does not make an idiot, it takes more.
For example to know the difference from practice and still say "it does not matter" is such a step.

Please say you already had the tracks compressed so thanks Max, but no need?
Or maybe, thanks I had not thought of that since I rarely or never do these things and am new but able to learn?

Really, I don't call you idiot! You show the big sign of intelligence to ask questions of what you are new to
and save time/trouble. Huge plus in my book, soon enough you will be providing answers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
None of us are born knowing and there is too much of everything to know for anyone to be all!

Now if you start making declarations of not needing to fly realistic sim in realistic manner,
(except where the
sim-hardware-player interface cannot be so real) THEN I may just call you idiot after a few repeats!
I have done so for others that do that with nasty tones. They will tell you half about that, be sure.

birdy1964
07-27-2007, 05:04 AM
Sorry M-Gunz I was only trying to make light of my lack of forethought in the way I went about this. So here goes, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">thanks I had not thought of that since I rarely or never do these things and am new but able to learn? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hope I didn't offend anyone with my lack of knowledge in these matters but I will rectify my error and sort out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
07-27-2007, 08:09 AM
I was only hoping I had not inadvertently offended you! Looks like some things do work out!

Trim should be simple, always noting that not all planes trim all 3 axes.
If you are holding the stick back to stay level then some taps of nose up trim should make
it so that you need to hold less back to stay level.

With aileron and rudder it can get trickier because rudder can be used for wings level and
at times is the correct way. Like during takeoff and land or slow flying or climbs, use
rudder.
Using side stick to keep level during takeoff is in real a Very Bad Thing. With aileron
you are making one wing at higher angle of attack and drag than the other.. if you are
slow and near stall that may be all it would take to put you into a spin! Lot of older
sims don't have that degree of modeling but then they also have "help" on rudder to the
point where it's not so necessary with even the warbirds either!

Try practice flying to power-on stall, when the wings start to tilt give it opposite
rudder but no stick off to opposite side. You will be able to maintain level wings at
lower speeds while level or while losing altitude. That will give you some feel of what
to trim if wings level is what you want.

Trim is for relieving stick forces and that does imply very much. If you know you will
be slowing down or speeding through maneuver (like climb or dive), start tapping trim
right from go otherwise when it comes time to aim you may find it hard to keep your nose
steady. That is because of joystick limitations (short travel) and stick sensitivity
slider settings esp if they are by the defaults.

birdy1964
07-27-2007, 10:47 AM
Here it is the clip you've all been waiting so patiently for, my stall trim film. Hopefully you will be able to see what I am doing wrong and offer some advice. Please don't laugh at my flying abilities as I said in my previous post I am new and trying hard. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://www.zshare.net/download/2872077c00782c/

msalama
07-27-2007, 11:09 AM
Hmmm... having watched the track I'd say your joystick settings are too sensitive. Try something like this for all axii and see if it helps:

1 5 12 22 32 43 56 70 85 100

Or alternatively

1 12 23 34 45 56 67 78 89 100

S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

birdy1964
07-27-2007, 11:22 AM
Hello msalama, God that was a quick responce. Thankyou for your suggestion I will give it a try and see how I get on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

msalama
07-27-2007, 11:23 AM
Cheers m8.

M_Gunz
07-27-2007, 04:11 PM
I run pitch sliders 46-52-58-64-70-76-82-88-94-100 where way back, all 100's then 82 to 100 by 2's.

Saitek X-52 has very light springs but if you use a light touch then it's very good for aim
and fly. What I don't get is a LOT of difference in certain amount of pull near center
compared to same amount of pull in middle. Some difference yes but not big like default
where the last 1/4 movement is half the authority and not good for control at all.
I don't suffer as much over trim with higher sliders...