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flakwagen
03-27-2006, 11:02 PM
I can't remember where I found this. Somebody posted it in a chat room last night. I can't tell if it is an old photograph or something new

http://home.ec.rr.com/galland/online/buffalo.jpg

And I have to say it: The Buffalo is almost as cute as puppies and kittens. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Flak

msalama
03-27-2006, 11:58 PM
Yeah, it's a cute chubbie isn't it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Buffalos, Ratas and Chaikas all are...

Esel1964
03-28-2006, 12:08 AM
That puppy needs a bath and a visit to the vet.
Just kidding,it seems to be in pretty decent shape.

I always like seeing old birds discovered,like the P-38's and B-17's 260 ft. below the ice in Greenland.

http://www.thelostsquadron.com/p-38-pages/faq.htm

But,what happened to the B-29 "Kee Bird".is truly sad.

http://www.aycsnetwork.com/usairpowerjournalwebsite.htm

Maybe someone will get the old Brewster back in the air.

Gibbage1
03-28-2006, 01:14 AM
I almost cried when that B-29 burned. So sad. So very sad.

rnzoli
03-28-2006, 01:47 AM
it's an old story from 1998

read it here: http://www.warbirdforum.com/bw372.htm

an equaly sad story, it ended up in Florida, not in Finland

HotelBushranger
03-28-2006, 03:59 AM
Yes, VERY VERY unhappy about that. The Finns should damn well have it, its their national plane practically, and the one that scored the most kills in the FAF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

RAF_Loke
03-28-2006, 04:56 AM
I could not open this link http://www.warbirdforum.com/bw372.htm but if it is the same plane I'm thinking on. Then it was for sale in the condition as shown above 2 - 3 years ago.
So if it ended up in Florida then I believe the new owner has all the right to it, as Finland was given the chance to buy it.

The most important thing is that it's safe today http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

HotelBushranger
03-28-2006, 05:12 AM
No, IIRC in this one the man used bribery and underhand tricks to get it out of Russia without Finland finding out, and being able to object.

flakwagen
03-28-2006, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I almost cried when that B-29 burned. So sad. So very sad.

I was shocked as well. The entire episode struck me as very strange. There was no logical reason for them to restore Kee Bird out in the wildnerness. The aircraft burned and people died because the leaders of that project heaped one irrational decision on top of another.

flakwagen
03-28-2006, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Yes, VERY VERY unhappy about that. The Finns should damn well have it, its their national plane practically, and the one that scored the most kills in the FAF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I agree! It makes me sad to see all the damage done to this airplane subsequent to its recovery from the lake. It was probably better off under the water. But I suppose the Navy museum is better than nothing- it could've been parted out by unethical Russian militaria dealers.

As a matter of fact it might be a better historical reference in the long run because of its final resting place. The Russians seem to have a preference for obliterating all original paint and replacing it with shoddy jobs that are pseudo-historic at best. The Navy museum is taking a 'do no harm' approach. The original paint job will be preserved- a very good thing.

Flak

AndyHigh
03-28-2006, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Yes, VERY VERY unhappy about that. The Finns should damn well have it, its their national plane practically, and the one that scored the most kills in the FAF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

While I agree with you, the B-239s didn't have most kills. That honor belongs to "crappy" Bf-109 Gustavs with 663 victories (vs. 478 with Brewsters).

Lodovik
03-28-2006, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
No, IIRC in this one the man used bribery and underhand tricks to get it out of Russia without Finland finding out, and being able to object.

It's a long and sad story, really. Fortunately it's got a happy ending of sorts.
As much as I'd like to see that plane end up in the Finnish Air Museum, I'm afraid the museum authorities here lack the resources to restore it properly.
The latest reliable info I heard was that the plane was sold to USA, the Smithsonian institute, I think. Last time I heard, those guys weren't exactly short of funds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif They're going to put a proper effort into the project and restore it as Finnish Airforce B-239.
Exhibited in the Smithsonian the ol' B-239 will let a lot more people get to know about the Finnish pilots' deeds in WW2 and averybody profits http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But still: Where ever You live, find out about the antiquities legistlation of your country and lobby for better laws protecting even the resent remains of our past. You know it makes sense. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Enforcer572005
03-28-2006, 09:25 PM
its at the US naval aviation museum in pensecola fla. a magnificent museum, second only to the USAF museum as far as the ones ive been to. they will take good care of it in its original markings, and FAR more people will see it than would be able to in finland.

the navy has said they might work out a loan of it to finland. they have the resources to do whats needed to restore or preserve it. They have done no damage to it. check their site, its got lots of great photos, including the P40B in AVG markings they got from russia-most of the AVG were originally navy or marine pilots.

LeLv44_Mangrove
03-29-2006, 01:19 AM
All about BW-372 and it's restauration.

BW-372 - Lecture (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/bw372lecture/)

BW-372 - photos (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw-372_photos/)

Badsight.
03-29-2006, 01:24 AM
the story behind BW-372 is one of double crossing & shady characters

it definantly didnt do a legal change of hands - the original backer of the search got ripped off by his employee

Badsight.
03-29-2006, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by AndyHigh:
While I agree with you, the B-239s didn't have most kills. That honor belongs to "crappy" Bf-109 Gustavs with 663 victories (vs. 478 with Brewsters). yes but that might not be what he meant

a Brewster Buffalo has the record for the most kills by a single airplane , used in the FAF during WW2

HotelBushranger
03-29-2006, 03:05 AM
^ Spot on.

Well I suppose if you present the case that at least it'll get more Yanks to learn about Europe, thats fine by me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HotelBushranger
03-29-2006, 03:06 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I just realised:

BW-372 is the number of my favourite Brewster skin, that I always use. Freaky huh...

flakwagen
03-29-2006, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by LeLv44_Mangrove:
All about BW-372 and it's restauration.

BW-372 - Lecture (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/bw372lecture/)

BW-372 - photos (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw-372_photos/)

Interesting. I hope the skinners pay close attention to the photographs. It looks as if the hound symbol on the fuselage was painted by placing a cut-out on the surface and painting around it with rough strokes. And it wasn't filled in with black paint, as is common with our skins and most scale models.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw-372_photos/jerry_0007.jpg



Flak

LeLv44_Mangrove
03-29-2006, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by flakwagen:
It looks as if the hound symbol

Ps. It's a lynx, not a dog! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

iroseland
03-29-2006, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by AndyHigh:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Yes, VERY VERY unhappy about that. The Finns should damn well have it, its their national plane practically, and the one that scored the most kills in the FAF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

While I agree with you, the B-239s didn't have most kills. That honor belongs to "crappy" Bf-109 Gustavs with 663 victories (vs. 478 with Brewsters). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


True, but the 239 had the highest K/D ratio of the war. Also
The top scoring Brewster B-239 pilot was Hans Wind with 39 kills in B-239s. Wind scored 26 of his kills while flying B-239 designated BW-393 and Eino Luukkanen scored 7 more kills with the same plane. BW-393 is credited with 41 kills in total making it possibly the single aircraft with most air victories in the history of air warfare.

from

http://www.answers.com/topic/brewster-buffalo


The G's might have had more total kills but there is no doubt that the buffalo Own3d. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


BSS_AIJO