PDA

View Full Version : Fuel tank idea Poll



Saburo_0
11-07-2004, 12:15 PM

Bobsqueek
11-07-2004, 12:22 PM
im not expert bu I dont think its possible seeing as the mustang fuel tanks dont empty one after the other giving it better agility (?)

but it might be

stansdds
11-07-2004, 12:37 PM
Actually the fuel should leak out of the tank that has been hit and the other tanks should not be drained.

oFZo
11-07-2004, 12:39 PM
I'm confident that if it was possible in this engine we'd already have it.

tracker_72
11-07-2004, 12:59 PM
I do not agree
If you do it do it well! iow > use the damagemodels of individual planes to model fuel leaking and respond with fuelselector settings (which should be modelled according to historic data).

tracker72

oFZo
11-07-2004, 01:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tracker_72:
I do not agree
If you do it do it well! iow > use the damagemodels of individual planes to model fuel leaking and respond with fuelselector settings (which should be modelled according to historic data).

tracker72 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what if the engine doesn't support that (which I think)?

brasil66
11-07-2004, 01:21 PM
AUOTE: "If you do it do it well!"

Wow. Thanks Mr. Cliche'! Next you'll tell us to give 110%.

Good grief.

Atomic_Marten
11-07-2004, 01:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saburo_0:
Currently anyfuel leak can drain all fuel tanks.
Please share your thoughts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure that *all* tanks are drained when one is hit? However that shouldn't be so hard to test...

effte
11-07-2004, 01:29 PM
ofZo,
it does. On what do you base the idea that it doesn't?

The model has masses. It simulates fuel use. All programs are able to do basic arithmetics.

oFZo
11-07-2004, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by effte:
ofZo,
it does. On what do you base the idea that it doesn't?

The model has masses. It simulates fuel use. All programs are able to do basic arithmetics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On what do you base the idea that it does?
Don't you think 1C would have modeled it before then?
I think implementing a detailed fuel system would mean rewriting a lot of code in the core of the sim, causing more bugs.

weasel75
11-07-2004, 01:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Are you sure that *all* tanks are drained when one is hit? However that shouldn't be so hard to test... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. At least with the Zero and D3A1 this happened to some people (including me). A hole in one wing, fuel 0.0% within some minutes. And Zero would be able to fly a loooong time even with just 2/3 of its 50% fuel (assuming it has 3 tanks, not sure).

DuxCorvan
11-07-2004, 01:56 PM
Mmmm... you may be right, oFZo, but they also said it was not posible to have different muzzle flashes for daytime and nightime, and even so...

Since they have to implement a lot of new code anyway in the patches to come (i.e. the new atmospheric effects that Oleg told about), maybe they can add this feature, too.

IMHO, the problem is not the game engine, but the huge amount of work that is necessary to modify every flyable plane DM and code, to customize the feature for them all. It's the same with opening cockpits.

tracker_72
11-07-2004, 02:12 PM
QUOTE
----------------------------------
AUOTE: "If you do it do it well!"

Wow. Thanks Mr. Cliche'! Next you'll tell us to give 110%.

Good grief.
----------------------------------

Look mr.Brasil i'm just trying to contribute to the forum here. I'm not a native english speaker (and not the only one) so expect more stupid centences in the future! If you can't stand this i'd advise u never to visit this forum again and only communicate with english professors in the future....

As far as the fuel leakage is concerned: I'd like it to personalised per plane, some planes have 1 fuel tank others have 5. For example planes with two identical wing tanks should have 50% loss per tank. A plane with 1 big tank (say80%) and two small ones (2x10%) should lose 10% when shot in the small one and 80% when shot in the big one.

If this is possible i dont know. What I do know is that the position of the tanks is modelled so they should take it from there.

tracker72

Latico
11-07-2004, 02:15 PM
There is also another concideration here.

For aircraft with wing tanks, if one side is drained there would also have to be programmed, into the DM, the heaviness of the one side that still has fuel.

In CFS2 fuel management was programmed into the game. I noticed that when carrying drop tanks that I had to constantly switch back and forth between the drops to prevent heaviness to one side.

J_Weaver
11-07-2004, 02:30 PM
Why not have the damaged tank drain instead of the rest?

Maybe the problem is that although the game sees the tanks in their correct locations for the damage model, when it comes to fuel consumption(sp?) it sees them as one big tank?

Saburo_0
11-07-2004, 02:55 PM
My mistake I had read that all the fuel was draining from only one tank being hit, but just had a case where it only drained one tank apparently.
Guess I should of tested it myself 1st ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

I should have known better, man i love this sim!!!

Sockeye45
11-07-2004, 03:05 PM
I'd atleast like the ability to manage my fuel tanks. Example, using this tank first, then this one, and after that.... That type of deal.

Not really essential, I suppose, but it would add something to the game for me. In the options menu, it could be called "Advanced Fuel Management" or something like that

Anyways, that's all folks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

rugame
11-07-2004, 04:49 PM
I would like to be able to switch tanks.

Some of the best fun I had was flying a A/C in SWOTL and bringing it home with a leaking fuel tank and managing my usuage by switching to the damaged tank, it was simply but it added hjust that little bit more.

I have had a tank hit in Il2 and it has not drained all my fuel, the tank just emptied into the atmosphere and I was able to fly (It was a wing tank on a yak)

Stiglr
11-07-2004, 05:19 PM
Wanna have to switch tanks, and have them drain individually?

Targetware (http://www.targetware.net)

Jieitai_Tsunami
11-07-2004, 05:38 PM
Hi, I've got a crazy idea.
Why not have multiple fuel tanks as it was in real life so each tank can be selected?

Not every fuel tank including the drop tank combined together equals the total fuel you have and the whole lot seeps out of your side into the atmosphere and is used up in one go.

The Zero for one had about 3 onboard fuel tanks, two in the wings and one in the fuselage. It also had one drop tank.

There was a selector switch to select the forwards, left, right fuel tanks and idle cut-off. CFS2 had this selector, Target-rabaul has the most realistic engine management system of any game.

Pacific fighters does not even have a fake fuel selector gauge. I€m not joking your Japanese source researchers really do need sacking.

The zero in this game also flies for 1000s of miles on one tank at high speed.

If you read about the zero and it says the zero had this type of long range it doesn't mean it had that range at normal speeds, because it had a big tank.

The zero pilot really had to adjust his engine to it's most effectiveness using prop speed (Not modelled) cowling flaps, mixture and throttle to economically use the fuel it had.

The zero fuel tanks are way too big..

effte
11-08-2004, 03:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oFZo:
On what do you base the idea that it does?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On knowing how to program in general, and how to program simulators in particular.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Don't you think 1C would have modeled it before then?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it there? Nope. Alas, I don't think they would have modeled it as they haven't. This means they have had other priorities. This poll concerns whether fuel tank selection, automatic or manual, should be given priority.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I think implementing a detailed fuel system would mean rewriting a lot of code in the core of the sim, causing more bugs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We're not talking detailed fuel systems here. Detailed fuel system simulation is in many ways a black art and something which immense amounts of work is spent on... when designing aircraft. But here, we are not. We are dealing with a mere PC simulation of relatively simple aircraft.

You think this is a major issue. I know it isn't, compared to all the other things which are required to make a simulator tick.


Pseudo-code for automagic logic for a rather generic WWII aircraft:

if tank 2 is not empty, use tank 2
if tank 2 is empty, use tank 1 or 3. If the tank in use contains less than 70% of what the other tank contains, switch tanks.
If a tank is damaged, transfer the fuel to another tank and use this tank exclusively until it is almost dry, then switch.

Not what I'd call mindboggingly difficult logic.

IIRC, it is working in the P51 so the framework is there.

Jieitai_Tsunami
11-09-2004, 12:12 PM
Does any one know if most of the Eastern Europian front aircraft only have one fuel tank? If so I think the game engine must have been geared towards only using one tank because that was all that was needed.

When other aircraft were introduced into the game this problem of not having multiple tanks must have been overlooked for more essential work by the dev team..

I hope this will be moddled to make this a much more realistic game .

Fennec_P
11-09-2004, 04:18 PM
IIRC, which I might not be, Oleg replied to a thread long ago concerning fuel tank selection, stating that it is planned for BoB (or at least he hoped to include it).

Looking back at the orginal IL-2, many planes had multiple tanks. Yaks, LaGGs, and the IL-2 itself.

rugame
11-09-2004, 04:29 PM
"Planned for BoB"

-Switching tanks is not a new thing for flight sims(Was present way back in SWOTL). I always missed being able to switch tanks in il2 for balance and just simply gameplay feature, but to find out that this 'revolutionary' feature of switching tanks, is going to be implemented in BoB, leaves a sour taste...

hmm I wonder what other 'New' features we will see in BoB....

Fennec_P
11-09-2004, 07:10 PM
Sure its in other sims, but those sims suck. A lot of good selectable tanks did.

Lets say they did add it in PF; it would just be a half-implimented feature like canopies or raisable seats. No way they could do all the planes.

Better it be included in a totally new game, and done properly. No one is slighted by it not being modeled in PF.

Latico
11-09-2004, 11:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The zero pilot really had to adjust his engine to it's most effectiveness using prop speed (Not modelled) cowling flaps, mixture and throttle to economically use the fuel it had.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pilots of all planes back then had to regulate their fuel consumption. Not just the Zeke pilots.

effte
11-10-2004, 01:34 AM
Not to mention that prop speed control is modelled in all the aircraft I've tried it in, which admittedly does not include the Zero.

The_Great_Stonk
11-10-2004, 01:57 AM
personally id rather they have drop tanks drain BEFORE the main aircraft internal tanks sorted out 1st before they even think about modelling diffferent internal tanks and give us the ability to switch between them. when you drop your drop tanks currently their usually still full of fuel, you seem to only use that fuel when your main tanks run out, which is just stupid...