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C.W.M.V.
01-08-2011, 01:37 AM
Seriously starting to get tired of the AI.
Just tried flying a few missions in Spit MkV's against 109's. 4 on 4 over north afrika, nothing special.
First my own wingmen have the uncanny ability to see the enemy at 5 times the distance I can. At 6000 feet they can spot a 109 at 20 miles away. WTF?
Ok that wouldn't be so bad, but they don't say a damn thing about it, just break and engage. Even my stinking wingman ran off! I'm glad I saw him zoom by my canopy otherwise Id never know they were gone. Oh I tried setting the formation to line abreast so that I could watch them more closely, which worked great until, upon making contact, 3 banked hard right, into 4 who was banking hard left...super.
So I just decide Ill follow them. Eventually I spot the 109's and begin to maneuver into position. I'm above them and pass them, watching them climb up to me. I'm getting ready to dive on their 6, easy shot! Then I notice my wingman is gone, again. pause game and find him about 5 K back gently circling back toward me. Super.
Anyway the 109 I'm chasing dives and I follow. I start to engage when I notice tracers flying by me, but they are red tracers, not green/blue mg151...Oh that's why! Its my 3, shooting at the same target I am, from behind me! Hes such a great shot that he disables my rudder and blows off my left elevator so i have the turning circle of a Stuka. Pull up, get out of the fight and start for home. I end up getting blown away by a 109, my wingman well on his way home.
Next time around same deal, except this time as I engage the 109 from behind, he flames and I pull up...right into my wingman. For some reason watching my 6 meant flying directly above and slightly behind me, WTF, at least he decided to play this time.
Next time around we bounce 109's, too bad no one told me. So I figure out where they went (tiny black dots on the horizon) and zoom into the fray. Dive on a 109 and get into a good turn fight. I get one and my 2 gets another. Then the engine failures happen. One of the mods I use (which goes a long way to making the playing field more even between us and the AI, normally) has to be disabled with spitfires or else their engines melt quickly. Oops. 3 and 4 are shot down gliding back to base and my 2 joins them in the desert floor when his untouched merlin dies.
Oh and the whole seeing through clouds thing too. WTF? seriously I cant fight in a cloud except to try to exit it with good position, damn AI seems to be flying with clear blue skis though!
And of course the snipers. id be remiss if I failed to mention them. Hell I wont even come within 2 k of an enemy bomber formation, because no matter what I do I get a bullet between the eyes.
Ok end rant.
All this being said there is still no better sim on the market. Take the good with the bad I suppose.

FoolTrottel
01-08-2011, 02:10 AM
This could help you keep them in control a bit:
"How I control my AI wingmen offline or on Coops." By WWSensei (http://www.wingwalkers.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7747&p=54031&hilit=) (An article at the Wing Walkers forums)

Ba5tard5word
01-08-2011, 03:05 AM
^
Yup, tell the flight to cover you and they should stick with you instead of going off on their own. Might be best to tell them to break then rejoin, then cover you, especially if you're in control of another flight, like you're in flight 1 and have control over 1 and 2 or whatever, flights you're not in are really liable to mysteriously go off on their own.

C.W.M.V.
01-08-2011, 03:35 AM
Ive been doing all of that except for the Break/rejoin, Ill have to use that.
Whats funny, now that Ive cooled off a little, is that it only seems to effect British pilots (I realize that thats not possible). Seriously I just took a group of USAAF P-47D-22's into Normandy and slaughtered a group of 190's like it was nothing. My wingman obeyed all commands and cleared my tail twice. Freaking bizarre.
I don't know if this is possible or not but can you hotkey wingman commands?

TheGrunch
01-08-2011, 04:58 AM
Break/rejoin is the only thing that seems to keep them in order, you do it once at the start of a mission and they start paying attention after that. I agree, though, that's the only real disappointment I've had in moving from 4.09+mods to 4.10, that playing offline is so much more of a chore. Endless barrel roll enemies, ******ed manoeuvering. The endless zoom-climbing. I had a 109 do a flat negative G turn for a full 270 today...until I got a firing solution and was about to pull the trigger, of course, as per bloody usual. Telepathic little buggers.

K_Freddie
01-08-2011, 04:59 AM
Maybe it's something to do with the AI expertise (Novice/Ace). I've never had a problem with Ace pilots... maybe anything below this is 'out of control'
I vaguely remember having to 'bark' the rejoin command a few times at lesser mortals before they rejoined.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

FoolTrottel
01-08-2011, 06:40 AM
I don't know if this is possible or not but can you hotkey wingman commands?
Some use 'VAC', voice activation... you program it, then command your flight via the microphone...
http://www.dwvac.com/

Treetop64
01-08-2011, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by C.W.M.V.:
Seriously starting to get tired of the AI.
Just tried flying a few missions in Spit MkV's against 109's. 4 on 4 over north afrika, nothing special.
First my own wingmen have the uncanny ability to see the enemy at 5 times the distance I can. At 6000 feet they can spot a 109 at 20 miles away. WTF?
Ok that wouldn't be so bad, but they don't say a damn thing about it, just break and engage. Even my stinking wingman ran off! I'm glad I saw him zoom by my canopy otherwise Id never know they were gone. Oh I tried setting the formation to line abreast so that I could watch them more closely, which worked great until, upon making contact, 3 banked hard right, into 4 who was banking hard left...super.
So I just decide Ill follow them. Eventually I spot the 109's and begin to maneuver into position. I'm above them and pass them, watching them climb up to me. I'm getting ready to dive on their 6, easy shot! Then I notice my wingman is gone, again. pause game and find him about 5 K back gently circling back toward me. Super.
Anyway the 109 I'm chasing dives and I follow. I start to engage when I notice tracers flying by me, but they are red tracers, not green/blue mg151...Oh that's why! Its my 3, shooting at the same target I am, from behind me! Hes such a great shot that he disables my rudder and blows off my left elevator so i have the turning circle of a Stuka. Pull up, get out of the fight and start for home. I end up getting blown away by a 109, my wingman well on his way home.
Next time around same deal, except this time as I engage the 109 from behind, he flames and I pull up...right into my wingman. For some reason watching my 6 meant flying directly above and slightly behind me, WTF, at least he decided to play this time.
Next time around we bounce 109's, too bad no one told me. So I figure out where they went (tiny black dots on the horizon) and zoom into the fray. Dive on a 109 and get into a good turn fight. I get one and my 2 gets another. Then the engine failures happen. One of the mods I use (which goes a long way to making the playing field more even between us and the AI, normally) has to be disabled with spitfires or else their engines melt quickly. Oops. 3 and 4 are shot down gliding back to base and my 2 joins them in the desert floor when his untouched merlin dies.
Oh and the whole seeing through clouds thing too. WTF? seriously I cant fight in a cloud except to try to exit it with good position, damn AI seems to be flying with clear blue skis though!
And of course the snipers. id be remiss if I failed to mention them. Hell I wont even come within 2 k of an enemy bomber formation, because no matter what I do I get a bullet between the eyes.
Ok end rant.
All this being said there is still no better sim on the market. Take the good with the bad I suppose.

Best rundown on the AI I've read in a long time. As good as this game is, the AI has mostly been, by far and away, the most disappointing aspect. Especially in DCG.

Certain AI routines aren't "turned on" until they pass certain waypoints. The relatively wide-open, "big sky" nature of missions generated by DCG tend to further expose this. Especially when you command your wing mates to attack enemy aircraft early in the mission, and those enemies they're supposed to attack aren't your actual mission objective. Then your wing mates will just turn away and fly off into the distance, leaving you to deal with the threat all by yourself. Actually, they are flying to some way point that "allows" them to attack other enemy aircraft that aren't the mission objective, then they turn again to return to you. If you are still alive and fighting when they get back, then they'll attack the enemy you commanded them to do ten minutes ago.

The quirks of the AI don't happen often, but it's a huge buzz kill when it does. Here's hoping that TD really get their heads down in tackling this issue for 4.11...

M_Gunz
01-09-2011, 05:29 PM
Short of a rewrite? Possibly they could make a credible follow and cover routine that doesn't have ADD? Possibly that's not how the AI works. Possibly also is that the AI uses priorities and can be changed to less desire certain activities over orders. And probably none of those can work as spelled, the AI is a black box to me!

LEBillfish
01-09-2011, 05:49 PM
Next time, try using the "Regular AI" instead of the "Gaddamn AI" and you might get better results.

K2

DKoor
01-09-2011, 06:41 PM
They are cr@p.
But you can either get adjusted to them or play without them, no much alternatives there.
So I choose some of the small tricks that work good with Ai, especially the dreaded wingman.
Tell him to cover you before you engage enemy.
This way he will actually cover your six, which is actually amazing occasionally he blows enemy ac right away when he gets on your six!
So he goes into protector angel mode instead going medieval on first enemy ac and maybe even kill steal you.

About the rest... I'm afraid not much you can do.
You can however watch the targets they go after so you can either cover them or go for another targets, try to avoid keystone cops (all on one bandit etc.).

DKoor
01-09-2011, 06:46 PM
BTW... number one thing I really hate about Ai... for instance your situation Spits vs 109s. Your buddy ai spit dies 4 sec after crying someone help me (after 109 gets on his tail), so you rarely or never actually can help him... no one told him that Spitfire turns horizontally significantly better than 109 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif .
And so on... I rarely ever am able to help Ai from being annihilated by other Ai during dogfights.

They are so much inferior to humans, but that's not really a surprise.

Perhaps most joyful experience is to fly bombers or attack planes, their gunners are snipers and your ai buddies manage those bombs/rockets/torps quite well.

Ba5tard5word
01-09-2011, 06:56 PM
If you are annnoyed with your AI wingmen not pulling their weight and attacking the enemy effectively, you might want to check out UP which has a new AI routine installed. I find that wingmen in UP are more effective than the stock AI. In the stock game they spend most of the time letting themselves get tailed and then cry about it and basically serve as a diversion to get the enemies off my tail. In UP they are more aggressive and will try to tail the enemy instead but without being so aggressive that they kill all the enemies. In UP I feel comfortable sending my #2 (the guy who would normally tail you and cover you) to attack the enemies, in the stock game I don't so I have him cover me instead of sending him off against the enemies.

C.W.M.V.
01-09-2011, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
If you are annnoyed with your AI wingmen not pulling their weight and attacking the enemy effectively, you might want to check out UP which has a new AI routine installed. I find that wingmen in UP are more effective than the stock AI. In the stock game they spend most of the time letting themselves get tailed and then cry about it and basically serve as a diversion to get the enemies off my tail. In UP they are more aggressive and will try to tail the enemy instead but without being so aggressive that they kill all the enemies. In UP I feel comfortable sending my #2 (the guy who would normally tail you and cover you) to attack the enemies, in the stock game I don't so I have him cover me instead of sending him off against the enemies.
Ya I run UP2.01. Its the whole reason I haven't switched to 4.10 yet, its just such a downgrade.
I love that the AI enemy actually scissor, yo-yo and such, much more trying enemy, thought sometimes they still pull the endless, directionless barrel roll, but not all the time.
I don't know what happened, but the AI in my current channel front campaign are fairly realistic. They only see enemy within visible range (in 10 missions we've been jumped by 109's twice because no one saw them! Thank god the P-47 can out dive anything around in 43!), and fight in pairs. Whats more they do it pretty well. When they lose contact they come back to formation! Holy lord!
Oh well, if that's the worst part about IL2 its a pretty awesome game. Its just such a downer when the AI go stupid!

M2morris
01-09-2011, 09:49 PM
I am trying to get some B24s to bomb some ships at a dock from 2000 meters but when they come to the target they dive in like they are on a dive bombing run. I have the attack waypoint set at 2000m.
They just clear the ground as they pass. What the eff.

WTE_Ibis
01-09-2011, 11:40 PM
Yep it's annoying to say the least.
I have a mission where twelve B24s with escort fly deep into enemy territory at 4,500 meters and after surviving the anslaught of the Luftwaffe get to the target and then they dive to 2000mtrs.
Many then seem to ignore their waypoints and find their own way home.
I'd really like to find a solution to this .
cheers.



.

M_Gunz
01-10-2011, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by C.W.M.V.:
Seriously starting to get tired of the AI.
Just tried flying a few missions in Spit MkV's against 109's. 4 on 4 over north afrika, nothing special.
First my own wingmen have the uncanny ability to see the enemy at 5 times the distance I can. At 6000 feet they can spot a 109 at 20 miles away. WTF?
Ok that wouldn't be so bad, but they don't say a damn thing about it, just break and engage. Even my stinking wingman ran off! I'm glad I saw him zoom by my canopy otherwise Id never know they were gone. Oh I tried setting the formation to line abreast so that I could watch them more closely, which worked great until, upon making contact, 3 banked hard right, into 4 who was banking hard left...super.
So I just decide Ill follow them. Eventually I spot the 109's and begin to maneuver into position. I'm above them and pass them, watching them climb up to me. I'm getting ready to dive on their 6, easy shot! Then I notice my wingman is gone, again. pause game and find him about 5 K back gently circling back toward me. Super.
Anyway the 109 I'm chasing dives and I follow. I start to engage when I notice tracers flying by me, but they are red tracers, not green/blue mg151...Oh that's why! Its my 3, shooting at the same target I am, from behind me! Hes such a great shot that he disables my rudder and blows off my left elevator so i have the turning circle of a Stuka. Pull up, get out of the fight and start for home. I end up getting blown away by a 109, my wingman well on his way home.
Next time around same deal, except this time as I engage the 109 from behind, he flames and I pull up...right into my wingman. For some reason watching my 6 meant flying directly above and slightly behind me, WTF, at least he decided to play this time.
Next time around we bounce 109's, too bad no one told me. So I figure out where they went (tiny black dots on the horizon) and zoom into the fray. Dive on a 109 and get into a good turn fight. I get one and my 2 gets another. Then the engine failures happen. One of the mods I use (which goes a long way to making the playing field more even between us and the AI, normally) has to be disabled with spitfires or else their engines melt quickly. Oops. 3 and 4 are shot down gliding back to base and my 2 joins them in the desert floor when his untouched merlin dies.
Oh and the whole seeing through clouds thing too. WTF? seriously I cant fight in a cloud except to try to exit it with good position, damn AI seems to be flying with clear blue skis though!
And of course the snipers. id be remiss if I failed to mention them. Hell I wont even come within 2 k of an enemy bomber formation, because no matter what I do I get a bullet between the eyes.
Ok end rant.
All this being said there is still no better sim on the market. Take the good with the bad I suppose.


Ya I run UP2.01. Its the whole reason I haven't switched to 4.10 yet, its just such a downgrade.
I love that the AI enemy actually scissor, yo-yo and such, much more trying enemy, thought sometimes they still pull the endless, directionless barrel roll, but not all the time.
I don't know what happened, but the AI in my current channel front campaign are fairly realistic. They only see enemy within visible range (in 10 missions we've been jumped by 109's twice because no one saw them! Thank god the P-47 can out dive anything around in 43!), and fight in pairs. Whats more they do it pretty well. When they lose contact they come back to formation! Holy lord!
Oh well, if that's the worst part about IL2 its a pretty awesome game. Its just such a downer when the AI go stupid!

Okay so this was about the Gaddamn MODDED AI when it successively screwed up just about everything, but usually doesn't?

C.W.M.V.
01-10-2011, 12:24 AM
Yep, modded AI, modded everything, why?
Its better than the stock AI. Hell its worth it if for nothing else than the enemy actions on contact.
As said before, its just about my only disappointment with the game, but when the AI goes stupid it goes MONUMENTALLY stupid.
Something else Ive noticed, and wondered about. Do the AI have individual profiles? Its strange, but each AI wingman I get seems to be different. Some will not follow any instructions, and are quickly shot down, but then there are some that maintain formation, stay on my 6 and keep me clear with great success. It doesn't seem to have any relation to rank, or experience.

PhantomKira
01-10-2011, 12:41 AM
Only solution to AI seeing through clouds is to turn the clouds off. Unrealistic, sure, but at least it improves frame rates.

C.W.M.V.
01-10-2011, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:
Only solution to AI seeing through clouds is to turn the clouds off. Unrealistic, sure, but at least it improves frame rates.
Ive started doing this especially in the North Afrika campaigns, as its not that unrealistic. From my own experience I can tell you there are few cloudy days in the desert!
Harder to justify that in September-March northern Europe. I understand the weather is very depressing by California standards.

horseback
01-10-2011, 12:26 PM
By California standards, a variance of greater than 15 degrees from a median 70 degrees F is, like, totally depressing.

I am in fact depressed even as I write this.

Complaining about modded behaviors is kind of weak, mate. First, because the stock game's creators cannot be held responsible for its product once it has been modified, and second, because we're talking about a game engine with basic routines that were developed when XP was brand spankin' new and a Pentium that ran at 1.5GHz with 256 Mb of (non-DDR) RAM was the absolute bleeding edge.

I promise you, the AI has always been flawed, and everyone involved has acknowledged that it is... IMO, the worst of those flaws were remedied long ago (which gives you a significant clue about how deep-seated the remaining problems are), and the real hope for this community lies with the long promised release of the new Storm of War/BoB simulation.

In the meantime, Tab-1-1, Tab-7 and Tab-2-8-2 are your best friends.

cheers

horseback

TheGrunch
01-10-2011, 12:29 PM
Yeah, but his point is, horseback, the modded AI is better than the stock AI, and it's still TERRIBLE. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The problem is, AI is the real performance-killer. As for everything else, +1.

C.W.M.V.
01-10-2011, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
By California standards, a variance of greater than 15 degrees from a median 70 degrees F is, like, totally depressing.

I am in fact depressed even as I write this.

Complaining about modded behaviors is kind of weak, mate. First, because the stock game's creators cannot be held responsible for its product once it has been modified, and second, because we're talking about a game engine with basic routines that were developed when XP was brand spankin' new and a Pentium that ran at 1.5GHz with 256 Mb of (non-DDR) RAM was the absolute bleeding edge.

I promise you, the AI has always been flawed, and everyone involved has acknowledged that it is... IMO, the worst of those flaws were remedied long ago (which gives you a significant clue about how deep-seated the remaining problems are), and the real hope for this community lies with the long promised release of the new Storm of War/BoB simulation.

In the meantime, Tab-1-1, Tab-7 and Tab-2-8-2 are your best friends.

cheers

horseback
Totally!
Believe me I appreciate the limitations of the game. The fact that it has been kept alive (in large part by the modding community) is a testament to the awesome nature of the game.
Id never complain to Oleg or TD about my modded game, or expect them to support it. If I wanted to I would be over on banana forums (although Im sure Id get nuked as soon as I mentioned UP2.01).
Hey, what can I say, I needed to vent about the damn AI.
Although, I must say again that my current USAAF campaign is great. Last night we were escorting bombers over St. Mere Eglise and ran into 190's and 109's. I didn't have to type a damned thing they called out the contact, maneuvered into position, and slaughtered the enemy without a single loss. Hell my wingman stuck to me like glue, and blew a 190 that was chasing me to smithereens. Then followed me all the way back home as I ran for England with huge holes in my wing.

So as others have said when it works its great, when it doesn't it totally and completely sucks.

As far as BoB, Ill believe it when I see it for sale on Amazon. How long have we been waiting on that release now?

Ba5tard5word
01-10-2011, 02:08 PM
The AI in UP is better at engaging the enemy and not letting themselves get tailed, but they are just as bad as the stock AI for drifting away on their own instead of following you.

I just don't see why they couldn't make them more responsive...like just abandon any other waypoints and follow behind you when you order them to. I don't think they should be able to "shut down" and go into landing routine randomly, they should at least say "I'm out of ammo, returning to base" or something like that.

C.W.M.V.
01-10-2011, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
The AI in UP is better at engaging the enemy and not letting themselves get tailed, but they are just as bad as the stock AI for drifting away on their own instead of following you.

I just don't see why they couldn't make them more responsive...like just abandon any other waypoints and follow behind you when you order them to. I don't think they should be able to "shut down" and go into landing routine randomly, they should at least say "I'm out of ammo, returning to base" or something like that.
Ditto.
I dont know why they would need to worry about waypoints if your in lead.
Ive also always wished the AI would givwe a proper contact report and wait for instructions before engaging. Also if there was a command for "Im going home, 3 your in charge, complete mission" it would be great for those moments when I NEED to get back to england.
I have heard the AI request for landing, be denied by the tower, and then tell him I don't care what you say I'm landing now. Why don't I have that emergency landing option? Would come in handy!

DKoor
01-10-2011, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
The AI in UP is better at engaging the enemy and not letting themselves get tailed, but they are just as bad as the stock AI for drifting away on their own instead of following you.

I just don't see why they couldn't make them more responsive...like just abandon any other waypoints and follow behind you when you order them to. I don't think they should be able to "shut down" and go into landing routine randomly, they should at least say "I'm out of ammo, returning to base" or something like that. Curiously enough, sometimes I heard them saying "I'm out of ammo" over radio... but not frequently. They usually just abandon their attack.

Ba5tard5word
01-10-2011, 02:57 PM
I think they say "I can't, I'm out of ammo" when you order them to do ground attacks.

What's annoying is when you order them to attack fighters and they say "roger" and then just buzz off home. Or when they don't reply to any commands...seems to happen if you give them a few orders in a row, like they got annoyed at you and shut their radio off! The one thing they seem to love more than anything else is returning to base...that is definitely one order they will ALWAYS ****ing follow! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

C.W.M.V.
01-10-2011, 04:57 PM
Ya no kidding, if I remember correctly I had AI wildcats doing celebratory rolls when the RTB order was given.
Something else, question for you guys. When flying a 109 I know not to follow anything into a medium/low altitude dive because my elevators will lock up, but when I dive away from the AI 109's in my P-47 they have no problems pulling high g turns out of 500moh dives. Anyone else notice this? More AI cheating?

horseback
01-10-2011, 04:58 PM
In my experience, the AI will consistantly announce enemy contacts and their location only if the Player is NOT the flight leader.

Otherwise, fuggetaboutit.

DKoor, I haven't heard the AI announce that they were out of ammo in several years--think maybe I'm hogging all the potential targets?

cheers

horseback

PhantomKira
01-10-2011, 07:52 PM
Not exactly the same, but I've routinely had Zeros all but keep up with my Lightning in 500+ MPH dives.

More along the lines of what you're asking, remember, the AI fly perfectly coordinated. They can go a whole lot faster than you if you aren't perfectly coordinated and thus have excessive sideways load on your airframe. You'll come apart, and they'll be fine. That probably has a lot to do with it; perfect handling of the airplane results in far greater tolerances.

DKoor
01-11-2011, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:
Not exactly the same, but I've routinely had Zeros all but keep up with my Lightning in 500+ MPH dives.

More along the lines of what you're asking, remember, the AI fly perfectly coordinated. They can go a whole lot faster than you if you aren't perfectly coordinated and thus have excessive sideways load on your airframe. You'll come apart, and they'll be fine. That probably has a lot to do with it; perfect handling of the airplane results in far greater tolerances. Nah mate, they just plain cheat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

http://www.filefactory.com/fil...8/n/ai_cheatpack.zip (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b44gag8/n/ai_cheatpack.zip)

Check out this stuff. You will laugh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
Not only they cheat in FM (flight model) but also their DM has nothing to do with players DM (damage model).

Anyhow it is probably just like any other thing in life, if it looks too good it rarely isn't a cheat (don't know if I phrased that correctly, English isn't my first language).

Erkki_M
01-11-2011, 02:49 AM
Fly online...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DKoor
01-11-2011, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by horseback:
DKoor, I haven't heard the AI announce that they were out of ammo in several years--think maybe I'm hogging all the potential targets? Ba5tard5word is probably right , now that I think of it they seem to say it mostly when they attack ground targets. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

DKoor
01-11-2011, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by Erkki_M:
Fly online...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Online cures Ai issue but raises bunch of another issues that are regularly big problem with online playing.
IMO regular random online isn't really better than offline, truth to be told it is only worse. No targets, no cohesion among players - nothing just random take off shoot somebody up and land. It is probably worse than acting Red Baron and alike in WW1 who did this hero stuff.

Cure to this problems (for the most part) are coops, and flying with squads (but to a limited degree since you and your buddies will have some cohesion and follow orders but everyone else from your side probably wont and will lonewolf around).

C.W.M.V.
01-11-2011, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhantomKira:
Not exactly the same, but I've routinely had Zeros all but keep up with my Lightning in 500+ MPH dives.

More along the lines of what you're asking, remember, the AI fly perfectly coordinated. They can go a whole lot faster than you if you aren't perfectly coordinated and thus have excessive sideways load on your airframe. You'll come apart, and they'll be fine. That probably has a lot to do with it; perfect handling of the airplane results in far greater tolerances. Nah mate, they just plain cheat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

http://www.filefactory.com/fil...8/n/ai_cheatpack.zip (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b44gag8/n/ai_cheatpack.zip)

Check out this stuff. You will laugh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
Not only they cheat in FM (flight model) but also their DM has nothing to do with players DM (damage model).

Anyhow it is probably just like any other thing in life, if it looks too good it rarely isn't a cheat (don't know if I phrased that correctly, English isn't my first language). </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Those tracks werent even funny. Damn 109 was super sonic!
As far as online play, no thanks, not really interested.

DKoor
01-11-2011, 04:20 AM
Yeah, try to switch your 109 to manual pitch in dive, see how much you can hold on http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.
Ai apparently "manages" to do it "perfectly" and "smooth" so it doesn't fry its engine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif.

Meh, joke aside, when I first saw that Ai flaps do not lock at the same speed that locks my flaps, I knew that we have a prob with Ai (regarding this "cheat" issue).
That was most visible on occasion where I took over from AutoPilot in dive, somewhere in the mess he raised take off flaps during the dive on enemy.
So immediately after I took over (hit "A" button) my flaps lock, after this I knew Ai does not obey the same rules as humans in game.

Whether they should or should not that is whole another issue.

BTW that Zero (also included in the pack) manages some 200kph of excess over maximum possible speed. TBH I think it could do 1000kph (or, insert any xxxxkph speed) over it since Ai doesn't seem to suffer from this (damage from excess speed) at all. Also check out the wrong fuel mixture, also a non issue to Ai; if player flies in dive with wrong mixture engine dies really fast but Ai does not suffer...

C.W.M.V.
01-11-2011, 04:29 AM
Maybe, just maybe, this was all done intentionally to make up for the AI's lack of creative ability? Only thing I can come up with.

TheGrunch
01-11-2011, 04:34 AM
It *is* quite fashionable among AI programmers to do that, it seems. Particularly in RTS and simulation games.

PhantomKira
01-11-2011, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Anyhow it is probably just like any other thing in life, if it looks to good it rarely isn't a cheat (don't know if I phrased that correctly, English isn't my first language).

The correct American way of saying that is: "If it looks to good to be true, it probably is." Meaning that if it looks to good to be true, it isn't what it appears to be. There's a catch somewhere, that they're purposely hiding from you, hoping you'll go for it; then they'll have you.

Okay, that's not funny. Since when could a Zero peg it's airspeed indicator and do a max performance turn while doing so? No good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

horseback
01-11-2011, 10:53 AM
We've always had the AI cheat in those regards; no overheat, no (or next to no) G-Limits, X-ray vision plus the anal eyeball (they can see through their fuselage and clouds out their @sses) AND they can always fly to 10/10ths of the aircraft's capability without regard to 'pilot ability' since Rookies fly as well as Aces.

Time to resurrect Horseback's 10 Commands for AI:

1. I am the PLAYER; I bought thee out of the Houses of Commerce and placed thee upon My Hard Drive. I have set thee free to fly, fight, and frolic upon My Monitor, and have nourished thee and provided many Patches, Upgrades, yea, and even Expansions for thine enlargement. For thou hast pleased Me greatly, in that thou immerseth Me in an Age of Legends, of which I have read and studied much, and yearn for with a great yearning, that I might test Mine own skills as a Knight of the Air.

2. My Immersion is thy reason for being, and there shall be no other goal before thee.

3. Thou shalt not set History upon its head. Thou shalt not perpetuate a Flight Model without an historical record, neither shall ye cater unto specious politically tainted flight tests. For I, the PLAYER, am a jealous player, and I knoweth my ****. Do not toy with My affections, lest ye lose My favor and custom.

4. Remember RL, and keep it Holy. Multiple sims art there which cater unto the Arcade Crowd, but Il-2, and then FB/AEP hath set a New Level, like unto that which was Real Life.

Sully not the purity of the pursuit of Truth, and stay on the paths of righteousness, for Immersion's sake.

5. Honor thy convergence ranges, and keep them constantly. For the PLAYER hath read his references, and knoweth that if thine convergences are set for 200m, thou canst not hit the broad side of a barn at 600 meters. This leadeth unto loss of Immersion, and on that path lieth destruction.

6. Thou shalt not steal the PLAYER's targets, for they are Holy. Neither shalt thou target any aircraft over, around, or through the PLAYER, for that is Vulching, and its pleasures are forbidden to the likes of you. Nor shall ye destroy any aircraft the PLAYER hath set afire or heavily smoking, or even halted the engine thereof, for they are disabled and shall surely die. Touch them not, lest ye share their ignoble fate.

7. Thou shalt proceed unto the target area at a cruise speed appropriate to thine aircraft type. Run not away from thine PLAYER wingman at speeds or climbs unattainable to Him, for He is the reason that ye existeth, and if He becometh frustrated and angry, arriving upon the scene of combat late and overheated one time too many, nevermore shall ye frolic upon His Screen, nor shalt thine Creators gain further profit from His commerce.

8. Woe unto ye, AI gunners! For thou hast all displayed marksmanship like unto that boasted by Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier, who didst slay bears, mountain lions and the odd raccoon from over 800m with but a single shot, of which his comrades did say, "Davy doth tell the Tall Tales yet again, but as long as he buyeth the beer, we care not."

Ye buyeth not a single sixpack for the PLAYER, and He tires of thine unrealistic bull droppings! He careth not for 'scale' or other such specious arguments for lo, it is written in the Chronicles of the Aces that aircraft gunners were mere mortals with limited gunnery skills even within 200 meters' range, wherefore multipassenger aircraft were Easy Meat, and eagerly sought after in preference to their more dangerous single seat brethren.

Therefore, thou shouldst never kill the PLAYER or disable his engine from greater than 300 meters, nor even from within that range more than one out of three times, and thy reaction to his entry into thine cone of fire should henceforth be measured in a more human seconds rather than nanoseconds.

9. Remember the FM, and keep it all of your days. Even if thou art an ACE AI, thou art still only AI, and exist only for the PLAYER's entertainment. Thou shalt not lessen the PLAYER's FM by thine presence, for thou art an Ace, not a friggin' vampire, neither shall ye do that which is impossible for thine assigned aircraft, for to do so is horse ****, which is even more malicious & dispicable than that of chickens, which are rightly despised for their end products.

10. Thou shalt not exercise knowlege of an approaching PLAYER from outside a RL Field of View, neither shalt thee ignore the approach of a PLAYER within a RL Field of View, especially one that leadeth to a collision. Thou shalt also stop hiding behind the PLAYER's canopy frames, for it is impossible to do so in RL. To do these things is an abomination unto the PLAYER's eyes, which are limited to a measly 85 degrees at most.

Know ye not that enemy AI exist to be destroyed (within reason) by the PLAYER, and friendly AI exist to help him in his campaign goals? To do otherwise is a great sin, and ultimately resulteth in being wiped from the Hard Drive of Life.

These are the Laws which are set forth for thee and thy descendents. Follow ye them, and ye shall enjoy many hours frolicing and flying upon the PLAYER's Monitor, and find rest in His Hard Drive.

cheers

horseback

TheGrunch
01-11-2011, 11:59 AM
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