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Viikate_
10-10-2005, 08:49 AM
What kind of military service your country has? Is is mandatory or non-mandatory? And if mandatory, what happens to men who refuse to serve at all? Are they put to jail or forced labour? I'm specially interested about European countries.

OberUberWurst
10-10-2005, 09:05 AM
In Denmark, you just say you smoke weed, then
they let you go http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
Then you get to work in the civildefence.

Monson74
10-10-2005, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Viikate_:
What kind of military service your country has? Is is mandatory or non-mandatory? And if mandatory, what happens to men who refuse to serve at all? Are they put to jail or forced labour? I'm specially interested about European countries.

Denmark: Navy, airforce, army & two special forces (land-based & sea-based). Every male person gets drafted the year he turns 18 & serves for 6-12 months if he wins the "lottery" - you pick a random number which tells if & where you serve. You may also volunteer - women too. You may refuse to serve & will then be transferred to a civilian job approved & payed by the state for the same length of time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Zjoek
10-10-2005, 09:09 AM
In the netherlands it's a bit odd. Officially there still is a draft, but they don't really draft people. Luckily for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Would hate to study for something, then join the army, and when I'm finished I'd have to continue studying...

The system is put up like this so in case Belgium decides to invade the Netherlands, the government can still draft people to defend our southern borders.

Then again... If the Belgians invade we'd have Belgian beer and fries everywhere... Belgians! Invade us, please! XD

DISCLAIMER: Belgium is just used as a funny example here. I do not hold anything against the Belgians. Etc. etc. etc.

BelaLvgosi
10-10-2005, 09:16 AM
Here in Portugal obligatory service was abolished a couple of years ago. You could either hold your "Inspection" (as I did, but I guess I won't be called to now), or after inspection if admissed, your service to complete studies.
If you refused to or coudn't enter (bad vision, unhealthy condition, refusal etc), you'd have to do community service (don't know if in practice this was so true in recent past as it had been).

FlatSpinMan
10-10-2005, 09:25 AM
None in NZ. My dad did it in the 60's but it was phased out not long after I think.

Platypus_1.JaVA
10-10-2005, 10:10 AM
Yes, "draft" as you put it is effectively gone here in the Netherlands for quite some time now. So, I was mightily scared when I got a letter from the ministry of Defence when I was about 17. It said that you don't have to go into the military right now but, "if the country needs you" Then you should come.

Pfioe, Never been so scared by any letter ever since. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

skabbe
10-10-2005, 10:24 AM
because of my countrys situation our defence is mainly airborn. it is obligated but we dont even have to learn how to land, so thats kinda nice.

WWSensei
10-10-2005, 10:28 AM
US Air Force here. US is all volunteer.

Estocade85
10-10-2005, 10:40 AM
None in Canada. And if there was one, it would probably show us to be peace keepers instead of 110% Uber killing machines lol!

Then again, what military?

*Rant On*

CANADIAN MILITARY SUCKS!
It's one thing not to have multibillion dollars carriers and EMPs but for the love of God, we should at least have decent equipment to protect our own turf. We have the world largest coastline, as far as the north pole. Global warming makes the polar circle more accessible and less expensive for maritime transport and will probably be the next "panama canal".

And what did we do about it? We just bought frigates than can't even navigate through the arctic ocean! WTF!

*Rant Off* sorry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
10-10-2005, 10:44 AM
Norway here:

About the same as in Denmark and Netherlands. It used to be draft. I did a year in the "Kings clothing" in 1987-88, with a couple of week long repetitions a few years later. Today, if your number comes up, you'll still have to serve, though emphasis on service abroad with NATO and UN has led to the politicians looking for a way to have a volunteer army.

ytareh
10-10-2005, 10:58 AM
Ireland:No compulsory military service here.Reserve Defence Force (FCA) like Territorial Army or National Guard in UK/US-doesnt seem nearly as well supported as used be though...

F19_Ob
10-10-2005, 11:12 AM
Sweden.

I was doing my final year (some 13 years ago) at university and was to enter service in time for my final exams.
I pleeded to get my time postsponed a year or atleast until after my graduation because I would ruin my 4 years of studies so far if not allowed to finish. Request denied.
Also the university could make no exeptions but understood and sympathised with my situation.
I was lucky that my prefect at the university was an ex military (high rank and had worked with drafting and issues) wrote a request for postsponal for my behalf twice, but that resulted in threats and demands of specific things I had to do, and be available at all times until my entry to service. Failiure to report to duty at given time would result in being fetched by military representatives and police??
My prefect told me that they probably were making me a pilotcase as an example for others but he either could not understand the reason.
No one else that became involved either.
However the prefect pulled some strings in high places, wich later led to my removal from the list for military service all together, and in the correspondance it was clear that I wasn't welcome if I wanted to serve later. (their vocabulary was different though.)

Still wonder about that time and those events some times. Made me a bit sceptic about big brothers competence, in all fields. still do. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bremspropeller
10-10-2005, 11:26 AM
Germany

It is mandatory. But about 50 percent (maybe even more) refuse to join the army and do some social service instead, like in hospitals, senior-homes or kindergartens.

I'm currently serving - you guessed where: the Luftwaffe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Service is limited to nine months - including three months of basic training (and drill) and six months among your actual unit.

skabbe
10-10-2005, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by F19_Ob:
Sweden.

I was doing my final year (some 13 years ago) at university and was to enter service in time for my final exams.
I pleeded to get my time postsponed a year or atleast until after my graduation because I would ruin my 4 years of studies so far if not allowed to finish. Request denied.
Also the university could make no exeptions but understood and sympathised with my situation.
I was lucky that my prefect at the university was an ex military (high rank and had worked with drafting and issues) wrote a request for postsponal for my behalf twice, but that resulted in threats and demands of specific things I had to do, and be available at all times until my entry to service. Failiure to report to duty at given time would result in being fetched by military representatives and police??
My prefect told me that they probably were making me a pilotcase as an example for others but he either could not understand the reason.
No one else that became involved either.
However the prefect pulled some strings in high places, wich later led to my removal from the list for military service all together, and in the correspondance it was clear that I wasn't welcome if I wanted to serve later. (their vocabulary was different though.)

Still wonder about that time and those events some times. Made me a bit sceptic about big brothers competence, in all fields. still do. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

d¶¶¶h...

Dunkelgrun
10-10-2005, 11:35 AM
Great Britain calling...

No compulsory military service, 'National Service' was discontinued sometime in the 1950s.

The Royal Air Force, Army and Royal Navy are staffed by professionals. It's a career, not an obligation.

There is also the Territorial Army, who put in so many days paid service each year. Again, purely voluntary. Whether there is still a Navy or Air Force version of the Territorials I don't know.
There are also Cadet Forces for teenagers. Voluntary with no obligation to join up later.

Cheers!

zlin
10-10-2005, 12:02 PM
Hello http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Funny ,I did served mandatory military service in then Communist Czechoslovakia beginning summer 1988 and then walked out of the military gate in to new democratic Czechoslovakia in summer 1990 after revolution http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif (a little bit rocky time wearing uniform)
Later in 1993 Czechoslovakia became Czech Republic , and by now is run only by paid professionals.
I was assigned to the anti-aircraft missile base unit as a driver for radar and missile carryig trucks ZIL and URAL.
If you ask me how did I like it? well not much or rather not at all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
And about not showing up for then mandatory service ? It was better advised not to get angry our Communist Officers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif they did grab you like it or not (except for sometimes reasonable health problem)

VonShlagnoff
10-10-2005, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Dunkelgrun:
Great Britain calling...

No compulsory military service, 'National Service' was discontinued sometime in the 1950s.

The Royal Air Force, Army and Royal Navy are staffed by professionals. It's a career, not an obligation.

There is also the Territorial Army, who put in so many days paid service each year. Again, purely voluntary. Whether there is still a Navy or Air Force version of the Territorials I don't know.
There are also Cadet Forces for teenagers. Voluntary with no obligation to join up later.

Cheers!

Which Royal Air Force are you on about? It was staffed by pros when I joined 10 yrs ago, but now we only seem to get drug addict surly yoofs through the door! Get this the new lot wont be allowed to work past midnight!!!

dammit122
10-10-2005, 12:56 PM
Belgium had a compulsory service 'till 1994.

It was easy and accepted to object to it, and to do some kind of community service.

However, the objector would be later on legally denied the right to own a firearm and to hunt.

Sort of a life choice...

Arm_slinger
10-10-2005, 01:05 PM
There bloody well should be national service in the UK again!! It would sort out alot lot of the problems we habve with people and society. Disrespectful, arrogant, obnoxious f**k wits that they are!

Monson74
10-10-2005, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Arm_slinger:
There bloody well should be national service in the UK again!! It would sort out alot lot of the problems we habve with people and society. Disrespectful, arrogant, obnoxious f**k wits that they are!

& if they got drafted they'd be armed too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Estocade85
10-10-2005, 01:53 PM
touché

Viikate_
10-10-2005, 01:55 PM
Thanks everybody for answering.

This is Finlands situation (taken from Wikipedia):

"As of 2004, Finland has mandatory military service for men of at least six months (180 days), depending on the assigned position: those trained as officers or NCOs serve for twelve months (362 days), specialist troops serve for nine (270 days) or twelve months, and other rank and file serve for six months. Unarmed service is also possible, and lasts eleven months (330 days). Since 1995, women have been given the option of voluntary military service. During the first 56 days, women have an option to quit the service without having to provide a reason. After serving for 56 days, they fall under the same obligation to serve as men.

Non-military service of thirteen months (395 days) is available for men whose conscience prevents them from serving in the military. Men who refuse to serve at all are sent to prison for up to 6.5 months (197 days)."

Many finnish conscientious objectors whine lot about our non-military service. They claim that it's violation of human rights because it's thirteen months of regular work (like normal 8 hour days in library). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

VonShlagnoff
10-10-2005, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Monson74:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arm_slinger:
There bloody well should be national service in the UK again!! It would sort out alot lot of the problems we habve with people and society. Disrespectful, arrogant, obnoxious f**k wits that they are!

& if they got drafted they'd be armed too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TRust me you can chanell the agression and teach them respect and team work and all the core military/life values with the correct training, trouble is the training has got too soft, trust me I see the results every day. IMHO if you have good hard training like the old national service stuff it would be a very good idea

Abbuzze
10-10-2005, 03:29 PM
Small addition for Germany.

Civil service is three month longer than military service, cause there is a thoretical possibility that you have to go to a military service like practice or something.

It is also necessary to wrote a report why you don´t "want" to go to the army. You have to argue why military service at a weapon is not possible for your conscience. So traumatic events like the death of family member should be mentioned. For me it´s ten years ago, so terrible stories told by your grandfathers or grandma about the war are also a good cause.
At the end you should have two or three pages, argueing about yourself, why you are a total pantywaist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This whole story are getting total stupid when you see german politcans in the TV, that say that military service is necessary, because without it, all the guys who don´t want to go to the army would lack in hospitals and other institutions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ankanor
10-10-2005, 03:36 PM
Bulgarian army relies on conscrpipts, but if you go to college or university you are postponed. And this year the accepted a bill that if you're older than 27 you don't have to go. I'm 22 and last week was a bit of a stress http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif the military official showed at my father's door asking about me(I'm in GErmany doing my bachelor and apparently I had forgotten to present them a certificate that I am still a student) the first letter got lost along the way, so I sent another on friday. Hopefully this one will arrive. Sadly, there's no civil service as an alternative(because the army teaches you mostly laziness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif) and if you don't appear when the letter comes, you are fined with appr. 10 000 Euros and/or 2 years in jail. Plus, if you are abroad and go back, they have every right to wait for you at the airport and escort you to the nearest enlistment point http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Capt_Haddock
10-10-2005, 03:42 PM
Wow, what a story Ob. Glad you got away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I had to choose between the French and the Spanish service. Went for the Spanish as I was living in Spain at the time, but I postponed for years while I was at uni. They threatened me with all sort of nasty letters but meanwhile I ended up moving to the UK. Funily enough being an expat made me automaticaly exempt by law. That was a happy day in my life http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The military service was a complete waste of time in Spain. It was simply slave labour for the officers. They actually got rid of it a few years ago.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

han freak solo
10-10-2005, 04:07 PM
I'm not up on the current status in the US.

I do know that when I was of age, and a young man turned 18 years old, he had to sign up at the local US Post Office for Selective Service. Or, volunteer in the branch of his choice.

The US government wanted to keep tabs on you until your 26th birthday "just in case". I turned 26 in Gulf War I. Now I can't volunteer if I wanted to. I think the age cutoff for new recruits is 38 or 39.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-10-2005, 05:06 PM
You wont believe it, i signed up for the Royal Dutch Airforce (Klu), as said before in my country its semi-draft
I signed up for officer in the Airforce as an F-16 pilot gear mechanic
i got past all test, except the Docter (a nice blonde babe LOL) didnt like me or something, she said she found a bump in my back or something, she said i can get back problems in the future so i failed to pass.
I asked for a second opinion and in the end five docters took a look at me and they looked all puzzled except her
so that was it, all i ever wanted was to get in the airforce and they wouldnt even have me as a desk pencil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
oh well **** happens http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

269GA-Veltro
10-11-2005, 04:14 AM
No more military service in Italy, it's became a job now, only professionists.
No more civil service..

For me, it has been a mandatory service in the Air Force...some years ago. Very good experience..at least for me..in the "fire fighting - pilot's rescue".

WWSensei
10-11-2005, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
I'm not up on the current status in the US.

I do know that when I was of age, and a young man turned 18 years old, he had to sign up at the local US Post Office for Selective Service. Or, volunteer in the branch of his choice.

The US government wanted to keep tabs on you until your 26th birthday "just in case". I turned 26 in Gulf War I. Now I can't volunteer if I wanted to. I think the age cutoff for new recruits is 38 or 39.

Selective service registration is required in case Congress ever re-instates the draft, but given the success rate of the all-volunteer force no Congressinal member would commit political suicide to re-instate it. It would take something on the scale of a WW2 deployment before they would even consider it.

WOLFMondo
10-11-2005, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by Arm_slinger:
There bloody well should be national service in the UK again!! It would sort out alot lot of the problems we habve with people and society. Disrespectful, arrogant, obnoxious f**k wits that they are!

100% agree!

HFC_Dolphin
10-11-2005, 06:15 AM
Greece:

The army service is mandatory.
Only people with some serious health problems do not join the army.
There is no alternative civil service.

zlin
10-11-2005, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by HFC_Dolphin:
Greece:

The army service is mandatory.
Only people with some serious health problems do not join the army.
There is no alternative civil service.


Jeeez this really suck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

YAKMAN1968
10-11-2005, 06:30 AM
National Service stoped here in the 70's. All volunteer defence force now

HFC_Dolphin
10-11-2005, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by zlin:
Jeeez this really suck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Well...we do not all face the same problems.

But we're pretty confident that within the next 10 years and with a certain European political situation changing, we'll see the Greek army getting professional and not mandatory.

Zjoek
10-11-2005, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by Abbuzze:
Small addition for Germany.

It is also necessary to wrote a report why you don´t "want" to go to the army. You have to argue why military service at a weapon is not possible for your conscience. So traumatic events like the death of family member should be mentioned.

...What about the death of the enemy's family members? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Ahem. Sorry. The anti-war person in me acting up again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Abbuzze
10-11-2005, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Zjoek:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbuzze:
Small addition for Germany.

It is also necessary to wrote a report why you don´t "want" to go to the army. You have to argue why military service at a weapon is not possible for your conscience. So traumatic events like the death of family member should be mentioned.

...What about the death of the enemy's family members? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Ahem. Sorry. The anti-war person in me acting up again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It was more about parents, sisters, brothers... but of course the argument is that the feeling you have about this "event" would be the same for the family of a guy you killed in a war.

Monson74
10-11-2005, 02:00 PM
When I got drafted I remember we had to undergo some medical & er.. intellectual tests to see if we qualified for doing service in Industrial Death Inc. - funny that most of the intellectual tests were about math & geometry but not linguistic - I guess we were not supposed to communicate but merely count ammo & discriminate targets. Anyway, the doctor examining me specificly wrote in my papers that I was NOT suited for service in the artillery nor the engineer troops because I was to "light" (I was skinnier than Iggy Pop!) & would destroy my back. Guess what happened: I drew 10 months with an artillery unit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
I tried to talk to the officers about it referring to my medical results but no luck - he wasn't being cooperative at all - in fact I think he was drunk & only saw me as trouble. So all I could do was to write a letter to the ministry in which I declared that I had a "conflicting conscience" serving King & Country by killing people & all & therefore requested to be transferred to civil service. Request granted. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

jarink
10-11-2005, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
I'm not up on the current status in the US.

I do know that when I was of age, and a young man turned 18 years old, he had to sign up at the local US Post Office for Selective Service. Or, volunteer in the branch of his choice.

The US government wanted to keep tabs on you until your 26th birthday "just in case". I turned 26 in Gulf War I. Now I can't volunteer if I wanted to. I think the age cutoff for new recruits is 38 or 39.

I think the age cutoff is more like 35, but I could be wrong. I just turned 38 last week, so I can't re-enlist anyhow. I did 11 years active and reserve time, so here's a lowdown on some lesser-known parts of the US system:

Enlistment in the active duty Army is normally for 2-4 years. However, most enlistees don't realize that they are really signing up for a 6 year term, only the first 2-4 years are active service. The remainder of the 6 years you are part of the "Individual Ready Reserve", which means you are subject to recall to active duty per the needs of the service. (This is how a lot of guys in Iraq are being "stop-lossed")

Reserve and National Guard enlistments are similar, although typically longer in term (6 years, plus 2 more in the IRR).

Even if you enlist in the Army, you still must register for the draft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Depending on circumstances, sometimes you are allowed to transfer to the IRR from the 'normal' reserve. I did this on my 3rd enlistment (2nd in the reserve) when my unit was disbanded and I was given the choice of the IRR or joining a unit in either Minneapolis or Detroit (I live in central Illinois) and travelling to drills at my own expense. Needless to say, I took the IRR! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Officers have (I think) a 4-year active-duty obligation, after which they may (attempt to) resign their commissions.

[ Service rant ]

I think military service is overall a good thing for most young people. Whether the training is 'severe' or not, just forcing them to leave home and cope with other people from different backgrounds will make them grow as a person. It also instills the idea that "Freedom is not free" and the sometimes harsh fact that no one owes them anything; it's up to the individual to make something of themselves in a free country. This is an idea that is sorely lacking in our current entitlement-filled society. Look at what happened in New Orleans recently. While there were lots of people that were incapable of evacuating themselves (like the sick and elderly), there were [b]lots[/] of otherwise healthy individuals that sat at collection points and b*tched that 'the government' was not doing anything for them instead of doing something about the situation themselves.
[ /Service rant ]

wayno7777
10-11-2005, 09:46 PM
I think the age has changed recently. IR reading about a father and son going through boot camp together and the father was over 40.
I agree with you 100%, Jarink.

fordfan25
10-11-2005, 10:33 PM
im glade there is no forced service here in the states. all though i would have liked to join navy or coast gaurd. of course me and orders just dont get along. i would not last 3 days befor i was in jail lol. that and the whole up at dawn thing lol . of course i think thats a fairy tale. wakeing up before 12:00 noon....HAHAHA yea right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif j/k

WWSensei
10-11-2005, 11:19 PM
Officers have (I think) a 4-year active-duty obligation, after which they may (attempt to) resign their commissions.


For officers it depends. My initial commission was for 4 years Active, 4 years Active Reserves and 1 year IRR. Officers don't re-enlist, but nearly everything you do adds to your commitment time, though a lot of it adds concurrently.

For example, if you PCS it adds one year to your commitment but concurrent to any other obligations. If you go to any professional schools (I went to Squadron Officer's School and Air War College) then you incur additional times (usually one year apiece).

I served two 4 year tours (well, technically 7 years 10 months) and then my one year in IRR. For officers, if you don't specifically resign your commission from the IRR you can be re-activated at any time for any length of time depending on mission needs. Needless to say I resigned my commission.

I don't regret the time I spent in (wouldn't have gotten a college degree without the financial support and scholarships they provided) and I learned a lot. Did more things and had more responsibility than most civilians twice my age. Also glad that part of my life is past me as well.

My father was career service enlisting in 1960. He was there when I got my butter bars and even swung a deal with the Air National Guard for one of "active duty" for him so he would be the first enlisted man I had to salute and give my silver dollar too.

He was no longer alive to see my brother take the oath and my brother is currently flying B-52s. At least one member of my immediate family has been in the service continuously for the last 46 years.

Tooz_69GIAP
10-12-2005, 01:44 AM
In Denmark, if you don't live there, you don't get drafted. I'm Danish, but live in Scotland, so they don't bother me. Also, if you are studying full time, they don't bother you, as far as I know. And once you get to 25 years old (I think) they leave you alone entirely I believe.

GAU-8
10-12-2005, 02:58 AM
IIRC..

i had two friends that were brothers from Turkey. they told me that at 18, you join the military for a minimum contract of 2 years. if not the military, then it was INTERPOL. the only way out was physical or psychological limitations. this was for ALL men AND women.

my info might be off a little or a lot by todays standards, or memory its about 8-10 years since i heard this.

HFC_Dolphin
10-12-2005, 03:35 AM
What's the situation in Russia?
I'm really curious!

han freak solo
10-12-2005, 07:00 AM
Check this out. "The Defense Department quietly asked Congress on Monday to raise the maximum age for military recruits to 42 for all branches of the service." Army Times-July 19, 2005

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-983408.php

It was (and currently is) 39 for the US Army Reserves. I only found this out because last year I was on the Department of Labor website looking for career jobs and the links kept ending up at the US Army.

jarink
10-12-2005, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
It was (and currently is) 39 for the US Army Reserves. I only found this out because last year I was on the Department of Labor website looking for career jobs and the links kept ending up at the US Army.

Hey, I could get back in, then! Of course, it might take me a year to lose enough weight to get down to about 185-ish... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
I wonder if I would get my stripes back?
I could enlist for 4, spend a year and a half in language school (in beautiful Monterey, California!) learning Arabic, do a tour or two in Kuwait, Iraq or Turkey...

Nah. I'm too old and set in my ways now. That, plus the money thing (Army pay does not exactly make for comfortable living).

Capt_Haddock
10-12-2005, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by jarink:
[ Service rant ]

I think military service is overall a good thing for most young people. Whether the training is 'severe' or not, just forcing them to leave home and cope with other people from different backgrounds will make them grow as a person. It also instills the idea that "Freedom is not free" and the sometimes harsh fact that no one owes them anything; it's up to the individual to make something of themselves in a free country. This is an idea that is sorely lacking in our current entitlement-filled society. Look at what happened in New Orleans recently. While there were lots of people that were incapable of evacuating themselves (like the sick and elderly), there were [b]lots[/] of otherwise healthy individuals that sat at collection points and b*tched that 'the government' was not doing anything for them instead of doing something about the situation themselves.
[ /Service rant ]

[ civilian rant on ]

I think the military service is useless. It's just a tool used by politicians to have lots of cannon fodder on the cheap. You can learn a lot more from life and how to serve society by leaving home, going to uni, reading books, voting against stupid politicians, making friends, and getting in love with a nice girl.

[ civilian rant off ] http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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AlGroover
10-12-2005, 08:31 PM
None here in Australia since Vietnam war involvement brought down the government in '72 although I think it's an option still on the books. Must be difficult for regular army who have to train conscripts, though. They get a whole bunch of guys who don't want to be there, then when they get them into shape they have to let them go and get another lot.

AndyHigh
10-13-2005, 04:21 AM
Hi,

It's worth noting that a man in Finland is basically liable for military service after the year he turns 18 and belongs to the reserve until he is 60 years old.

What most going to non-military service don't seem to realize is that it frees them only from service during peace time. Should there be a war against...Sweden for example, they would be drafted by force anyway and given a short training before going to the front http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Non-military service nowadays seems to be mostly for backing own career by doing some nice and clean office work that benefits yourself more than the country.

I personally did choose to serve in defence forces because history clearly shows that only own army and will to fight can guarantee freedom despite how sweetly politicians talk and swear about peace. And few months in a forest does good for everyones health and you get to cope with people from different backgrounds.

Fanaticism, whats that? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Originally posted by Viikate_:
Thanks everybody for answering.

This is Finlands situation (taken from Wikipedia):

"As of 2004, Finland has mandatory military service for men of at least six months (180 days), depending on the assigned position: those trained as officers or NCOs serve for twelve months (362 days), specialist troops serve for nine (270 days) or twelve months, and other rank and file serve for six months. Unarmed service is also possible, and lasts eleven months (330 days). Since 1995, women have been given the option of voluntary military service. During the first 56 days, women have an option to quit the service without having to provide a reason. After serving for 56 days, they fall under the same obligation to serve as men.

Non-military service of thirteen months (395 days) is available for men whose conscience prevents them from serving in the military. Men who refuse to serve at all are sent to prison for up to 6.5 months (197 days)."

Many finnish conscientious objectors whine lot about our non-military service. They claim that it's violation of human rights because it's thirteen months of regular work (like normal 8 hour days in library). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Friendly_flyer
10-13-2005, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
I think military service is overall a good thing for most young people. Whether the training is 'severe' or not, just forcing them to leave home and cope with other people from different backgrounds will make them grow as a person.

Well said! This was my impression of life in a draft army too. A lot of people have a very limited view of life and society. Also for me, a fairly well educated young man, getting to know the "regular Joes" of Norways poppulation was a sobering experience. When people say "most people are of the oppinion that..." chances are they have never seen the inside of a barack.

fordfan25
10-13-2005, 10:14 PM
im thinking hard about joining the US army but i have just one qustion. well my PC handle BF2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif