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View Full Version : PF review at firing squad: Spot on



Typ356
12-16-2004, 02:37 PM
www.firingsquad.com (http://www.firingsquad.com)

They like the realism, the flight model the graphics, but think the campaigns are tedious and boring, and there is no real time skip. Couldn't agree more ! I love the game but I'd pay another $50 for a nicely designed and interesting set of campaigns than does not involve flying over water or mountains for an hour!

3.JG51_BigBear
12-16-2004, 02:59 PM
There are third party campaign addons. Cost less than $50 and are probably better than any campaigns that Oleg will release. Right now all the pay third party addons are focused on the European and Eastern Fronts but I'm sure Pacific campaign and mission addons will be popping up shortly.

macd1102
12-16-2004, 08:46 PM
the statement contradicts itself, they love the realism, but hate the long flights over water, thats exactly what the real pilots expierienced during the war, making it more real, pickup some of the inflight music for the time period, it really adds to the sim

DarkCanuck420
12-16-2004, 08:57 PM
real pilots also ate, drank, peed, etc. you dont see that too do ya? its the old fun factor over game play issue. if there is going to have the realism of flying for hours and not seeing anything, they should have the option for people who to speed up the pace a little. and no the ] button doesnt cut it.

Stiglr
12-16-2004, 09:40 PM
Typ 356 wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd pay another $50 for a nicely designed and interesting set of campaigns than does not involve flying over water or mountains for an hour! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, clearly, you just don't grasp at all the concept of the Pacific. There were VERY few times when you didn't have to fly at least an hour to get to where the action was out there.

The Zero 2 and Betty pilots at Rabaul had to fly on lean for 3 hours each friggin' WAY to get to Guadalcanal.

Lae was at least an hour over the Owen Stanleys from Port Moresby or perhaps half that to Buna/Gona.

Attacks to Rabaul or Wewak from the NE coast of New Guinea were marathons.

About the only thing I can think of that was relatively short was a period where the Black Sheep were at Vella La Vella and had to get to the southernmost reaches of Bougainville. And a few instances in the Phillipines and Dutch East Indies where fields were for a short time in close proximity. Prior to that, the Japanese had to fly in from Taiwan or even Saigon just to start the Phillipines campaign.

Long flights comes with the territory in this particular theatre. To ignore or "game them away" completely makes it not a simulation anymore.

I'd suggest liberal use of airstarts, and fuel calculation, as is done in *cough* other sims. It really is the only way. Either that, or a "fast forward" that's so fast you'll miss the target area by 10 real minutes and have to fly all the way back, wasting more precious fuel.

Hunter82
12-16-2004, 09:49 PM
warping to next waypoint via X ...oops wrong sim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Korolov
12-16-2004, 09:55 PM
Quite clearly, aircraft in the Pacific should have been equipped with hyperdrive units.

aonyn
12-16-2004, 10:03 PM
As much as I enjoy realism in my simming, I just don't often get the long periods of time which would be required to fly the pt missions in realtime. Above it was mentioned missions 3 hours out and 3 hours back. Heck, I am lucky when I get a full uninterupted hour to sit at my computer and fly, much less 6 hours.

Athosd
12-16-2004, 11:07 PM
I think the reviewer made a bit much out of the patching process (inflated the difficulty somewhat with factual errors as well).
While its true most online players are using 3.02, that doesn't change the fact that it is a beta patch (I don't believe the reviewer noted this status) - the absence of a pretty/helpful install GUI is therefore not reason for complaint.
The official 3.01 patch is no more difficult to apply than any other game's.

The reviewers point about online users loaded up with TrackIR etc inhibiting padlock and stomping all over those with more humble kit is partly true (I've certainly been on the wrong end of that stick). However I've never noticed a shortage of servers (Hyperlobby) that cater to lower difficulty settings.
The new player quickly learns that heading into a 'full switch' game without proper preparation and equipment is risky business.

Stiglr
12-16-2004, 11:38 PM
I suppose he also forgot to note that if you simply train on how to use a hat switch, TrackIR isn't all the advantage it's said to be.

pettera
12-17-2004, 02:36 AM
I think they were quite spot on. Lots of good things but gameplay suffers in some aspects. Very few of us are willing to ore able to spend the necessary amount of time to enjoy truly realistic campaigns. Takes about 5 years if you start in 1940 and survive the war!

So maybe Oleg and co. should give some thoughts on how to make life easier and faster. A skip to next waypoint would be nice. Very few flightsim buyers are Full Realism Junkies although most of us appreciate that it is a simulation not just a game.

Petter

s.bush
12-17-2004, 05:06 AM
Actually the sim is in front of the firing squad


READY FIRE!!!

Typ356
12-21-2004, 03:07 PM
The holier than thou simmer responses crack me up...

Some people find it fun to fly for an hour one way before anything happens? Ok, then I got a new game for you, it involves paint and drying time.

Listen, I like realism in flight sims, but by that I mean the planes fly and fight right. If you have to fly for hours with nothing to do, I have better uses of my time - hell I can go mow the lawn...

How people defend the lack of a time skip feature in a COMPUTER GAME really cracks me up... Now I'd understand if the plane is damaged or it's OK if you want to fly straight for an hour, but for those of us who have a life and limited gaming time, a better time skip would be cool and would not take away any of your precious realism - just don't use it ;-)

RocketDog
12-21-2004, 03:19 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Regards,

RocketDog.

tsisqua
12-21-2004, 03:50 PM
The reviewer doesn't mention that a time-skip function was added, and also that flight distances in the dynamic campaigns are limitable by entering a line in the .conf file.

Overall I think it was a good review, but most of his gripes are addressable/fixable.

Thanks, Mate
Tsisqua

P.S. Guys that do not know . . . look in your control assignments. Assign a key to "Time Skip", and BANG You are on your way to the next waypoint at lightspeed. If enemies are nearby you will unwarp just like in CFS2.

Smokin256
12-21-2004, 04:52 PM
You guys crack me up!

I seem to recall a couple of conversations. The first at the tail end of Sturmovik. When Oleg was feeling out the community about content for FB;

Community; WE WANT A DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN!

Oleg; But dynamic campaign missions will never be as interesting/varied/immersive as well made linear campaign missions.

Community; WE DON'T CARE! WE WANT A DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN! MOMMY MAKE HIM MAKE A DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN FOR US!

Oleg; Here you go! Here's your dynamic campaign!

Community; YAAAAAAAAAY!!!.............(Couple weeks later)......Hey this campaign kind of sucks & these missions are kind of boring & repetitive. WAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Second conversation with a poll about posible add-on theaters.

Community; WE WANT THE PACIFIC THEATER!

Oleg; Ok, but the pacific theater consists of a lot of long boring flights over water. Are you sure?

Community; WE DON'T CARE, WE WANT THE PACIFIC THEATER! MOMMY MAKE HIM MAKE THE PACIFIC THEATER FOR US!

Oleg; Here you go, here's your pacific theater!

Community; YAAAAAAAY!!!.....(Couple weeks later)...........Hey this is kind of boring! It's nothing but a lot of long boring flights over water! WAAAAAAAAH!!!!

The moral of the story? Next time listen to him! He knows what his game engine is & is not capable of!

We could be in the CBI or the spanish civil war BUT NOOOOOOOO! You guys wanted the pacific!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers........Smokin256

Athosd
12-21-2004, 05:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smokin256:

....We could be in the CBI or the spanish civil war BUT NOOOOOOOO! You guys wanted the pacific!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And as soon as the series focused on US aircraft US companies commenced litigation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Athosd
12-21-2004, 05:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Typ356:
The holier than thou simmer responses crack me up...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a time skip function,rtfm - it switches off the graphic display and drives the game as fast as your PC will go.
Its just not the warp with instantly spawning enemies that you appear to expect.

Typ356
12-22-2004, 01:25 PM
>There is a time skip function,rtfm - it switches off the graphic display and drives the

I read the manual, thanks a lot. I know there is a time skip function. I also know it's useless, it's no faster than 8x acceleration. I still don't get why poeple get flamed when they ask for a time-warp feature... Realism die hards are welcome to play from inside a freezer to replicate altitude and pee in a cup to replicate a long flight, sit on sharp rocks to replicate butt pains, and shoot themselves with a BB gun to gently replicate being shot at...

I'm just a guy with a job and a family who loves flight sims and would love to be able to play a goo dcamnpaign that does not invovle me flying straight and level for an hour to actually shoot at something. It's not like I am asking for an arcade mode !

To me, a good sim looks pretty, models the airplanes accurately, and has good AI - no complaints there with the entire series. Now for all of us who are not students anymore and have limited play time, I don't see why a good time-skip feature would be a insult to the purists... The existing one is too slow..

Capt._Tenneal
12-22-2004, 02:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smokin256:
You guys crack me up!

I seem to recall a couple of conversations. The first at the tail end of Sturmovik. When Oleg was feeling out the community about content for FB;

Community; WE WANT A DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN!

Oleg; But dynamic campaign missions will never be as interesting/varied/immersive as well made linear campaign missions.

Community; WE DON'T CARE! WE WANT A DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN! _MOMMY MAKE HIM MAKE A DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN FOR US!_

Oleg; Here you go! Here's your dynamic campaign!

Community; YAAAAAAAAAY!!!.............(Couple weeks later)......Hey this campaign kind of sucks & these missions are kind of boring & repetitive. WAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Second conversation with a poll about posible add-on theaters.

Community; WE WANT THE PACIFIC THEATER!

Oleg; Ok, but the pacific theater consists of a lot of long boring flights over water. Are you sure?

Community; WE DON'T CARE, WE WANT THE PACIFIC THEATER! _MOMMY MAKE HIM MAKE THE PACIFIC THEATER FOR US!_

Oleg; Here you go, here's your pacific theater!

Community; YAAAAAAAY!!!.....(Couple weeks later)...........Hey this is kind of boring! It's nothing but a lot of long boring flights over water! WAAAAAAAAH!!!!

The moral of the story? Next time listen to him! He knows what his game engine is & is not capable of!

We could be in the CBI or the spanish civil war BUT NOOOOOOOO! You guys wanted the pacific!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers........Smokin256 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you ! Now this is spot on. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

TROOPER117
12-22-2004, 04:00 PM
Smokin256! Well said, nail on the head job!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SpartanHoplite
12-22-2004, 04:31 PM
And I'll pass on a "well-said" to Typ356. He hit the nail on the head, too.

SH

Athosd
12-22-2004, 07:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Typ356:
I read the manual, thanks a lot. I know there is a time skip function. I also know it's useless, it's no faster than 8x acceleration. I still don't get why poeple get flamed when they ask for a time-warp feature... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The "time skip" function is heavily dependant on the level of activity in the mission and the speed of your CPU. Try it in a mission with very few units and it will zip along a great speed (100x plus has been noted).
Agreed it is a bit slow during a standard mission with currently standard kit - perhaps some further optimisation may be possible.

Time skip has a couple of useful advantages over the normal accelerate time mode - it will bring you back to normal time when you encounter enemy or hit a waypoint, and AI accidents appear to occurr less frequently.

On my humble XP1900 time skip manages ~10x in a default New Guinea campaign - a little bit better than 8x.

james_ander
12-22-2004, 07:56 PM
The great thing about this sim is that if you don't like the missions or campaigns that come with it, you can make them yourself, or check fansites and download a bunch super quick. It's that simple.

james_ander
12-22-2004, 08:11 PM
I do find the PF campaigns dull, but I am pleased with the realism nonetheless. I often design static campaigns with lots of fast (but unrealistic) action when that is what I want. Falcon 4 is incredibly tedious to the unitiated because of its level of realism. If constant pow-pow is what you want, then hard-core flight sims are really not the place to look.

The Firing Squad review also claims that the controls are "too touchy" and I like that too. I like the fact that IL2 attempts to simulate flight as much as a PC can instead of making Grand Theft Auto with aircraft. There are enough games out there for impatient little children with attention deficit disorder. This is not one of them.

I'm not saying that some improvements couldn't be made. But overall it's an excellent product that prioritizes realism and has a great deal of replay value.

Blackdog5555
12-23-2004, 12:42 PM
Well in Falcon 4 u are flying at 450 mph and can hit A/P and accelerate to 2x,4x, 8x 16x 32x, and 64x...It (F4) is never tedious...Jeesh does anyone read the manual! And you can tell who has a job and wife (or a life) in this forum. He He, Pretending to fly for 2 hours over simulated water is not realism. Im laughing. If you want realism piss your pants, or throw up yourself, or set yourself on fire after you shoot yourself in the leg with a shotgun. Personally,I dont have 4 years to recreate the "full experience of the PTO." My job and wife wont let me. (plus i do have a life) I want a simple, fast waypoint skip, too. All this bull about how it is not possible is for morons. Its Just bad programming. Ok, now the english teachers can correct my grammer...Cheers brother! And the fanboys who defend the lack of maps and linier or dynamic campaigns, Merry Chrismas. Heee Heeee. cheers again!

CRSutton
12-23-2004, 01:29 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tsisqua:
The reviewer doesn't mention that a time-skip function was added, and also that flight distances in the dynamic campaigns are limitable by entering a line in the .conf file.

Overall I think it was a good review, but most of his gripes are addressable/fixable.

Thanks, Mate
Tsisqua

P.S. Guys that do not know . . . look in your control assignments. Assign a key to "Time Skip", and BANG You are on your way to the next waypoint at lightspeed. If enemies are nearby you will unwarp just like in CFS2.[/QUOTE

Problem is, if you use the time skip function in any NG campaign, you suffer a good chance of all you squadron mates augering into mountains-even post patch. Does not make for a fun experience. And, even with the skip button, you spend a lot of time looking at a black screen.

Better but needs work.