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Achilles97
01-27-2010, 12:53 PM
My friends and I play dogfight missions and one of the group has started flying the I-153. The thing is very pesky and we are forced to boom and zoom against it. It seems like it has a ton of ammo.

The most surprising aspect of the I-153 we noticed is that it's damage model is incredible. We can get some good cannon bursts on it and nothing major happens. I expected it to rip apart with cannon shots. Even with an exposed pilot, the thing is a bullet ShamWoW.

Is this realistic?

SeaFireLIV
01-27-2010, 12:55 PM
Hard to say since it never actually flew in combat. It was an experimental plane that the Russians aborted.

thefruitbat
01-27-2010, 01:02 PM
i think you must be confusing it with something else seafire, its the bi plane that the russians had at the start of the war, we've got 2 versions of it stock il2, over 3000 were built, and saw plenty of combat, often in ground attack role.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_I-153

as to dm don't know, but they're great fun to dogfight in.

AndyJWest
01-27-2010, 01:06 PM
None of the damage models are totally realistic - or ever could be. Some are probably better than others. As for the I-153, it's worth remembering that a fabric-covered aeroplane is in some ways less vulnerable to gunfire, as shots can sometimes pass right through doing little more than making a couple of small holes. A cannon shell is probably less likely to detonate hitting fabric than something more solid. As you say, the pilot should be vulnerable though.

AS for tactics against them, boom and zoom is the only way, unless you are flying another biplane. Even then, they can be difficult to hit if properly flown.

JG52Uther
01-27-2010, 01:14 PM
If the Russian planes' damage model/flight model is correct in il2,then the Luftwaffe should have been decimated in '41...

SeaFireLIV
01-27-2010, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
i think you must be confusing it with something else seafire, its the bi plane that the russians had at the start of the war, we've got 2 versions of it stock il2, over 3000 were built, and saw plenty of combat, often in ground attack role.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_I-153

as to dm don't know, but they're great fun to dogfight in.

Yes, you are totally right.

For some strange reason, I was thinking of the I-185.

Brain freeze, I guess. Sorry.

Ba5tard5word
01-27-2010, 01:29 PM
I think Seafire confused it with the I-185.


The I-153 in Il-2 is definitely very tough to shoot down and takes a lot of damage, cannons are best but .50 cals are good, and .30 cals would be worst. The I-16 is somewhat similar though its wings tend to blow off with not too many repeated hits.

Metatron_123
01-27-2010, 01:33 PM
Well I think that particular aircraft is a bit too durable.

However I have to disagree with Uther, on the one hand, as an example the I-16 had armour long before the Bf-109 had any installed, and regardless, everything Russian is pathetic in comparison to the Bf-109F in 1941. What is better? Yak-1? Mig-3? The Polikarpov Barrel planes? Lagg-3? They are all a sorry bunch in anything but experienced hands.

JtD
01-27-2010, 02:00 PM
The I-153 isn't really tough, but it has four wings that can take damage instead of two that we usually get. Essentially you are just distributing your damage better.

DuckyFluff
01-27-2010, 03:07 PM
The ingame I-153 has ALWAYS had a very tough DM.

I think its down to the primitive DM it inherited from the origianl IL2, when it and the I-16 were virtually bullet proof, remember the online wars? the damn things (P40s as wellhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif) were virtually invulnerable...lol)

VW-IceFire
01-27-2010, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by DuckyFluff:
The ingame I-153 has ALWAYS had a very tough DM.

I think its down to the primitive DM it inherited from the origianl IL2, when it and the I-16 were virtually bullet proof, remember the online wars? the damn things (P40s as wellhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif) were virtually invulnerable...lol)
That's what I was going to say. It's a really old plane that didn't get much in the way of DM updates so it's probably too tough. I also remember when the I-16 was like concrete and a full burst from a FW190 wouldn't do it in.

Feathered_IV
01-27-2010, 05:06 PM
Shots from dead six won't do much if you are using smaller calibre stuff. The back armor is pretty big and gives a lot of protection to everything in front. Can't say I've ever found the thing to be unbeatable though. Mind you, I spend more time flying it than fighting it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Treetop64
01-27-2010, 05:18 PM
If you're flying Blue, the I-153 is definitely one of the peskiest opponents in IL-2. Very tough to hit at all, let alone hitting it enough to actually bring it down. BnZ is the absolute safest way to deal with this bugger. Never TnB with a Polikarpov, unless you're flying something similarly maneuverable.

It's simplicity in construction is actually an advantage from a damage control point of view. You have to hit it with at least a second's worth of continuous hits from a steady stream of fire, preferably from 1.5cm round or greater, to have any chance of wrecking it enough to render it unflyable. Either that, or a PK hit.

JG53Frankyboy
01-27-2010, 07:28 PM
actually there are more than one plane in game with quastionable DMs................

just other examples:
Ki-27s, Ki-21s, SM79, LaGG3 as the ones that are "tough".

A-20, P-40 engine as examples as a "little bit" light http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

actually it would be endless http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

anyway, a good aimed canonburst is solving a lot of things http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Romanator21
01-27-2010, 08:21 PM
If you realize that Ki-27 pilots don't have parachutes then it becomes a lot nastier to fly. Although rare, I managed to shoot off the tail section of a LaGG using just the .303 guns in the Bf-109E nose.

The A-20 was known for a weak spar at the root. The enemy capitalized on this. The P-40s I find are quite durable and are definitely tougher than the Bf-109 F series.

My personal experience with the I-153 is not nice. In a campaign I rarely if ever survive to the next mission. Sometimes I just drop my bombs at the red-blue border and high-tail it just to live (and even then the 109s follow and get me). My whole group gets decimated by a few Bf-109s. On the German side of the same mission I can act with total impunity and bag a few kills easily.

The thing is that I-153 have air cooled radials, fabric and aluminum truss construction. This is usually very strong, as bullets pass through fabric without affecting the structure (compared to a monocoque plane like the Bf-109 that has its strength in the skin). Still it too slow to be a major threat.

Treetop64
01-27-2010, 08:35 PM
Actually, there were 7.92mm in the nose of the Emil, not .303cm.

Romanator21
01-27-2010, 08:49 PM
.303 inches, sorry. My mistake, I should have used the standard mm units for the German planes.

Boosher
01-27-2010, 09:11 PM
I've noticed that the SM.79 was a "little" tough. Didn't want to say anything though, was afraid I'd be chewed out for calling the DM into question.

Erkki_M
01-28-2010, 01:10 AM
I153 as its little brother I16 were known for their toughness when being hit in the hull. From dead six, you need a whole lot of hits to do anything if your plane has no cannon. Weak points in both are "pilot's buttom" where the fuel tank is(catches fire quick from a low-bounce attack), root of the wing(s) and engine from high deflection. I16 is less tolerant to wing damage than I153. I153 has smaller headrest armour than I16 and sometimes you can get the pilot killed if you aim above the centerline...

M_Gunz
01-28-2010, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Shots from dead six won't do much if you are using smaller calibre stuff. The back armor is pretty big and gives a lot of protection to everything in front. Can't say I've ever found the thing to be unbeatable though. Mind you, I spend more time flying it than fighting it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Not only that but pilot and crew hit-boxes are very small indeed. If they were more realistic the rate of PK would
be much higher, enough that a great many would quit playing.

TheGrunch
01-28-2010, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
.303 inches, sorry. My mistake, I should have used the standard mm units for the German planes.
He's just being pedantic, .303 is 7.7x56mm, not 7.92x57mm. You might have to call it a rifle-calibre machine gun in future to prevent rampant unnecessary pedantry. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Feathered_IV
01-28-2010, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Shots from dead six won't do much if you are using smaller calibre stuff. The back armor is pretty big and gives a lot of protection to everything in front. Can't say I've ever found the thing to be unbeatable though. Mind you, I spend more time flying it than fighting it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Not only that but pilot and crew hit-boxes are very small indeed. If they were more realistic the rate of PK would
be much higher, enough that a great many would quit playing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting. A "reality" mod for offliners would be a welcome remedy for things like this.

JG53Frankyboy
01-28-2010, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
If you realize that Ki-27 pilots don't have parachutes then it becomes a lot nastier to fly. Although rare, I managed to shoot off the tail section of a LaGG using just the .303 guns in the Bf-109E nose.

The A-20 was known for a weak spar at the root. The enemy capitalized on this. The P-40s I find are quite durable and are definitely tougher than the Bf-109 F series.

My personal experience with the I-153 is not nice. In a campaign I rarely if ever survive to the next mission. Sometimes I just drop my bombs at the red-blue border and high-tail it just to live (and even then the 109s follow and get me). My whole group gets decimated by a few Bf-109s. On the German side of the same mission I can act with total impunity and bag a few kills easily.

The thing is that I-153 have air cooled radials, fabric and aluminum truss construction. This is usually very strong, as bullets pass through fabric without affecting the structure (compared to a monocoque plane like the Bf-109 that has its strength in the skin). Still it too slow to be a major threat.

the japanese Army pilots used parachutes.......it was the Navy that often used none.

in the P-40 i ment the engine damage - a lot "lighter" than other inline engines in game.

A-20, if you look how easy it bursn in comparison to other bombers, even japanese.................

Sillius_Sodus
01-29-2010, 12:40 PM
To answer an earlier post about porked dm's, the KI-27's dm is not that bad, while they don't catch fire as easily as you might expect for such a lightly armoured aircraft, you do get a lot of pk's and shot out controls. I would guess that in 80% of my KI-27 kills involve the aircraft ceasing evasive maneuvering and gradually diving into the ground, I assume either as a result of a pk or destroyed controls.

Flying an I-153 or I-16 against them is a hoot.

BillSwagger
01-29-2010, 01:09 PM
It all comes down to trigger time and whats to be expected.
The plane that can severally damage the other with a couple rifle calibers will be victorious over the other that has to get a sustained and steadied shot for several seconds.

As for the i-153, i've had no trouble downing it with ease in 1v1 using the same plane.


Bill

SeaFireLIV
01-29-2010, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
To answer an earlier post about porked dm's, the KI-27's dm is not that bad, while they don't catch fire as easily as you might expect for such a lightly armoured aircraft, you do get a lot of pk's and shot out controls. I would guess that in 80% of my KI-27 kills involve the aircraft ceasing evasive maneuvering and gradually diving into the ground, I assume either as a result of a pk or destroyed controls.

Flying an I-153 or I-16 against them is a hoot.

The I-153 is the I-16`s nemesis as I discovered when I thought I was king in the I-16. Even faster 109s couldn`t get me.

Until that I-153 came along. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

I was shocked the first time it actually turned INSIDE of me!

DuckyFluff
01-29-2010, 03:41 PM
BillSwagger said:


As for the i-153, i've had no trouble downing it with ease in 1v1 using the same plane.



Thats because as well as having a DM from hell the I-153 also has Tie Fighter laser guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif