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View Full Version : Oleg!! Your D3A1 VAL in PF



Talos2005
01-13-2005, 10:38 PM
Hello Oleg!! Please let me to make some comments.
I think it is well modeled and flying and diving it are fun.
Its lack of high seat position is a little disappointing I mentioned before, but we could use No Cockpit View to land safely on deck.
1. If you have a chance, I think it is better to get rid of a large box-like projection under its fuselage at the base of main wings. It is a cover containing a set of loop antenna, and normally should be retracted inside the fuselage. Telegraphist/Rear Gunner put it outside down only in needs to reduce unnecessary air drag it causes.
Therefore, from modeling point of view, removing it is more accurate to represent a normal situation of Val.
2. Marking. Sorry for your researchers, its defo marking is strange, as some participants in this Forum suggested, because it lacks €œHinomaru€ or Rising Sun (Meat Ball?) in its fuselage. I do not know what sort of material is used to create this marking, but some corrections are needed. Fortunately, we could download so called historically accurate skins from IL2Skin, it is not a serious problem now.
Finally, I would like to stress that those mentioned are minor ones, and I really appreciate and enjoy you and your team€s creation.

Kind Regards,

Talos2005
01-13-2005, 10:38 PM
Hello Oleg!! Please let me to make some comments.
I think it is well modeled and flying and diving it are fun.
Its lack of high seat position is a little disappointing I mentioned before, but we could use No Cockpit View to land safely on deck.
1. If you have a chance, I think it is better to get rid of a large box-like projection under its fuselage at the base of main wings. It is a cover containing a set of loop antenna, and normally should be retracted inside the fuselage. Telegraphist/Rear Gunner put it outside down only in needs to reduce unnecessary air drag it causes.
Therefore, from modeling point of view, removing it is more accurate to represent a normal situation of Val.
2. Marking. Sorry for your researchers, its defo marking is strange, as some participants in this Forum suggested, because it lacks €œHinomaru€ or Rising Sun (Meat Ball?) in its fuselage. I do not know what sort of material is used to create this marking, but some corrections are needed. Fortunately, we could download so called historically accurate skins from IL2Skin, it is not a serious problem now.
Finally, I would like to stress that those mentioned are minor ones, and I really appreciate and enjoy you and your team€s creation.

Kind Regards,

BBB_Hyperion
01-13-2005, 11:48 PM
Thats the first good post i read today .

When you have details on correction for antenna mounting . Put up some Pictures from the game val and the retracted position real life pictures .

Same for Markings etc Post incorrect and correct ones put this all in a mail and send to
PF at 1c.ru (at = @ avoids spam mails) then you have a chance to get this things corrected if they have time for it and it doesnt take a engine rewritte .)

When you post it here it has less chances to be corrected.

Talos2005
01-14-2005, 01:08 AM
Thank you for your kind suggestions, BBB-Hyperion!
My question is the information I supplied is based on books and periodicals all written in Japanese. In that case, I cannot send it on e-mail. Secondly, even if I seggest the pages on the particular subject inside those printed materials, who could read Japanese inside your team?
Also, I cannot send my own books. All I can do is quoting the pages of the books supporting my points. Can you actually get somewhere else those books? How should we do?

BBB_Hyperion
01-14-2005, 01:35 AM
Thats indeed a more difficult situation.

As far as i know there have been a lot of data and graphs send for A6m in original documents regarding overboost issue as it was not modeled. The guys that have translated the documents did send in both the original text and the ones translated english. (I doubt they checked if it was correctly translated but some kind of original document or reliable source should be mentioned (for important things mention 2 independ sources cause even book authors can be wrong or copy) where the info is from or better attached as scanned picture). So quoting is best here with reference as it is a minor issue, i have no doubts that it is correct as you described it and therefore just quote and mention the source. Surely for markings a picture or painting of the correct one and ingame shot of the wrong one would be far faster to check as a description of the marking as text .

PS i dont work for 1C just a poster like everyone else here .)

ImpStarDuece
01-14-2005, 01:39 AM
I am living and working in Japan at the moment. I have Japanese friends who speak English. Prehaps you can supply me the references and I could help.

Talos2005
01-14-2005, 02:30 AM
Thank you to both gentlemen, BBB_Hyperion and ImpStarDuece.
Please not to worry, ImpStarDuece, I have been in London for five years and do speak English.
BBB_Hyperion, I believe the best way for me is to make a direct contact with someone in the Oleg€s team. My impression is that you might have some clue.
Is this their mail address you quoted?---- PF@1c.ru
To whom should I address?

Kind Regards,

BBB_Hyperion
01-14-2005, 03:07 AM
Yes that is the adress .

You can get more details here .
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=4941001752

This is the part fitting for your case

b) In case of aircraft data or 3D model "problems", if you think this is incorrect you need to put the source text/photos or blueprints (if it is not the simple drawings) with the exact data and the screen shots (if you think something is wrong ) that are in comparison with the real one. Please take in account that in the only word explanation we usually do not accept such reports. Also, we don'rt model many switches, etc working. So we do not accept it as bugs. We do more working switches only when we have a time and then ussually do not rework that was not done due to limit of time, except real bugs.

As you want to adress someone . Use Dear Oleg , or
1C:Maddox Games (Oleg reads them mostly but doesnt answer all as it takes too much time)

TimTam27
01-14-2005, 11:30 PM
There was a lot of talk over at J-aircraft.com about the DF loop cover on the D3A Val and it turns out that it was not retractable. Often it was not fitted. So the modeller did get it right.
Talos's second point about the markings is correct. But in addition to the missing fuselage hinomaru, the wing hinomaru's are incorrectly positioned. They should be much further outboard. But the Val is hardly unique in PF in respect to incorrect markings. When speaking of Japanese aircraft in PF it is hard to find any that are not either incorrectly marked or skinned or both.

For anyone whose main interests lie with the Air Forces of Imperial Japan the markings and colours of the Japanese aircraft in PF are a real disappointment. From the glaring error of the large fuselage numbers to the ridiculous levels of weathering on the late model A6M's it would seem that there was little effort spent on researching the appearance of the Japanese aircraft.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
01-14-2005, 11:37 PM
Any chance a plea to Oleg can get the glare in the cockpit minimized from the landing light? I cant see a darn thing when trying to land on a carrier with that thing on.

Talos2005
01-15-2005, 12:23 AM
Hello,TimTam27.
Thank you to point me out the loop cover. I once again try to check my sources because so many photos of Val show its lack of the cover. If it is not retractable, it means a fairly large number of Vals were not fitted the loop. Also, please instruct me how to find threads about the loop cover of Val inside J-Aircraft.com. Sorry, I could not find those particular arguments. Besides, I am very impressed and pleased to find such a good site researched by non-Japanese enthusiasts. I hope that Oleg and his team should make a much more research based on such sites.
P.S. I also want to see Shokaku and Zuikaku at the times of Pearl Harbour, Coral Sea, and Santa Cruz!

VR ScorpionWorm, I agree with you. When I enjoy a deck landing at night, I always rely on Non Cockpit View.

Kind Regards,

joeap
01-15-2005, 05:04 AM
Hi Talos2005, welcome to the forum. I am Canadian living in Europe but from Vancouver. I knew many Japanese people over there and am happy to see some interest here about the sim. We have had many German and Russian and other nationalities here as well. It will be very useful to Oleg and the team to have contacts for Japanese sources. I believe he fixed the Zero's negative-g engine cutout with information from Japan.

Obi_Kwiet
01-15-2005, 02:24 PM
Do you realize how much work that would take?

TimTam27
01-16-2005, 06:12 AM
Hi Talos,

the discussion about the DF loop cover at j-aircraft.com took place on the Navy aircraft message board several months ago and has probably not been archived. If my failing memory serves me, I seem to recall that the question was finally solved by someone (possibly Greg Springer?) who examined the derelict D3A1 Val in the US and was able to state categorically that there was no retraction mechanism for the DF loop. I also did a bit of research myself by looking at my "Maru Mechanic" on the D3A series and it covers the DF equipment quite thoroughly. There is an illustration showing all the equipment associated with the direction finder and this does not show any device to retract the loop. As well as this there is also a close-up photo of the tear drop fairing that the loop cover is attached to. It is a one piece stamping with a slot cut into it. The slot is only large enough to allow the DF loop itself to fit through not the cover as well.
But to settle this in your own mind it you might find it worthwhile asking a question about this subject on the j-aircraft message board. The people there are very friendly and are most happy to help. As you noted j-aicraft.com is a terrific site and in my opinion is one of the best aviation sites on the web. We Japanese aircraft fans are very lucky to have it. And what makes it even better, as well as the aviation side there is a Ships and Navy message board that is a fantastic forum for discussions about the ships of the IJN.
As a final note Talos,I would like to congratulate you on the pleasant and respectful way you conduct yourself on the forum. Something that is all too rare on the WWW these days.

Cheers,
TimTam27

Talos2005
01-16-2005, 08:13 PM
1.) Hello, TmTam27.
I am very pleased to hear that you checked the MaruMechanic to support your points. I also scanned D3A issue of €œFamous Planes of the World€"Sekai-no-Kessakuki, Bunrindo€. Sources are sometimes almost the same, sadly. So far, I do not hesitate to state your points are correct. Thank you for correcting my arguments. The next point that fascinates me is the criteria to fit that sort of loop. Many Val€s photo without that cover might indicate the instrument only fitted to the planes for leaders or section leaders(Taicho-ki or Shotaicho-ki only). In case of A6M2b(Type21) allotted to the carrier force, I read some documents saying the loop (you could see it just after headrest inside the canopy) were fitted only on leaders€ or section leaders€ plane. (page385, Akatsuki No Sango-Kai by Shiro Mori, Kojinsha 2005) Sorry, it is for J-aircraft.com threads.
2.) Hi, Obi_Kwiet
You get the point! I think, for better or worse, IL2FB+AEP+PF are not only the treasure of combatsim for our community, but also the business for Oleg and his team. The money matters for every improvement in the future. Therefore, the discretion whether every correction proposal would be adopted or not solely lies on them, and nobody could force them to do so. If they think proposed corrections are worth for their workload and costs, they would simply do. However, they could not ignore all of the voices from €œthe market€, because this would push aside their potential followers (our community) instrumental to develop further their business. I believe he well understands the importance to make a balance between business and market.
So, I keep feeding back some voices from the market, like other persons, but it is categorically Oleg€s business decision which one would materialize. Then, he would take every responsibility on his.€€Please remember No healthy Criticism, No Improvement.

Kind Regards,