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Dawnfang
06-02-2007, 06:57 AM
Hey all,

Perhaps it has been asked before but do you think the Holy Grail (in whatever kind of form) will play a role in Assassins Creed? Or, to stretch it even further, do you think the entire, well-know bloodline of Jezus conspiracy will make it's entry in this game?

For all the people that want to flame this post because maybe it has already been asked before: If you don't like it, don't post. We have to wait months for this game to be released, this forum is practically dead, so please let the ones that do want to talk about this subject talk and don't bug them with comments like: 'this has already been asked', or 'it's very unlikely the Grail will make an appearance, so stop whining about it'...

moqqy
06-02-2007, 08:51 AM
Nah, the game is supposed to be realistic, so what would the Holy Grail do?

Dawnfang
06-02-2007, 10:02 AM
Well, you could imagine a plot involving some Templars protecting the Holy Grail (whatever that is). I do admit though, that a certain plot would be purely suggestive.

Boromir323
06-02-2007, 10:15 AM
The Templars may have found one of these four items under the Temple Mount:

Holy Grail

Ark of the Covanant

Piece of the True Cross

A scroll that told the location of massive amounts of gold and silver.(I cannot remember what it was calledhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif)

Which ever item it was it will probably play a large part in the game, going by the interveiw with Cory May, when he said

"What did the Templars find under the Temple of Solomon? What did it do? Where is it today?"

Also there is the Baphamut idol that the Templars "worshipped".

Dawnfang
06-02-2007, 10:39 AM
An interview with Cory May? I missed that? Could you please post a link?

Boromir323
06-02-2007, 10:50 AM
Bottom of second page. (http://www.gamesradar.com/us/xbox360/game/news/article....=2006090117215778002)

Anubis14_360
06-02-2007, 05:18 PM
i hope not the holly cup, it has been done befor.

i think it will be the Assassin's, that there still here and there wait till some gos to stuff up the world (then they kill him).

Jade_Samurai
06-02-2007, 05:39 PM
i don't think they will include something on the holy grail, they may, but this game has been said to be very close to historical just so they don't have people saying they are bias against other religions.

Tlepolemus7
06-02-2007, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
Nah, the game is supposed to be realistic, so what would the Holy Grail do?

I think all supposed "realism" and "historical accuracy" was thrown out the window when they decided on a plot including genetic memory/futuristic... stuff

JCtheMC
06-02-2007, 07:39 PM
As a sucker for conspiracy theories, i'm glad ubi went "there". And with there i mean the whole "What buried under Solomon's temple" deal. It's one of the bigger questions historians keep asking themselves, because we simply do not know.

I liked the DaVinci Code's take on the whole story, because i thought it made sense; There was nothing mythical about what the Holy Grail actually was in that story; it was "just" a stack of papers.

But the DaVinci Code was very anti-catholic, and not that i mind, but i think games should keep that non-political middle ground as much as possible, like AC is doing.

I'm expecting that whatever is buried under solomon's temple in AC, is an important component for keeping the war going. In the end, it's probably going to be the key to stopping this whole ordeal.

Boromir323
06-02-2007, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by JCtheMC:
As a sucker for conspiracy theories, i'm glad ubi went "there". And with there i mean the whole "What buried under Solomon's temple" deal. It's one of the bigger questions historians keep asking themselves, because we simply do not know.

I liked the DaVinci Code's take on the whole story, because i thought it made sense; There was nothing mythical about what the Holy Grail actually was in that story; it was "just" a stack of papers.

But the DaVinci Code was very anti-catholic, and not that i mind, but i think games should keep that non-political middle ground as much as possible, like AC is doing.

I'm expecting that whatever is buried under solomon's temple in AC, is an important component for keeping the war going. In the end, it's probably going to be the key to stopping this whole ordeal.

Yeah that would make sense. Then Altair's future descendant could use it to stop the war in Iraq or some other futuristic war.

moqqy
06-03-2007, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
Nah, the game is supposed to be realistic, so what would the Holy Grail do?

I think all supposed "realism" and "historical accuracy" was thrown out the window when they decided on a plot including genetic memory/futuristic... stuff </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, stuff like that doesn't ruin it.. The genetic memory doesn't affect the realistic word that Altair is in at 1191 A.D.

XxKillabytexX
06-03-2007, 04:15 AM
Wow I cant wait for noobfun to get stuck into this thred (If his still around http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif)

But right now ill have my say as the Knights Templar and the holy grail is one of my main intrests.

Ok for starters.
The first thing people think of once they hear the holy grail is King Arthur and the knights of the round table. Now let me start by saying that this is complete bull sh*t. Not only was there no Knights of the round table there was no King Arthur period. Granted there was a King who existed during the Dark Ages who united the Anglo Saxon tribes around Europe but his name was not Arthur and he was the furthest thing from a handsom gentleman riding a dashing white horse in shining armor.

However.
I beleive that the legend of the Knights of the round table is actually the Knights Templar as they are a real organisation which were protectors of the faith and keepers of the holy secret.

Now as for the grail.
The grail was said to be the cup of Christ. The chalice of which Jesus drank out of at his Last Supper.

Now I wont bother going into great details as I will probably continue my argument in posts to come but what I have to say is. The Holy grail is not the cup of Christ infact it is the bureial place of Mary Magdline and the bloodline of Jesus Christ. There is also the cults "The Priory of Sion' and "Optus Dei" that I will give more info on in future posts of this nature.


Above is just a rough outline of what I beleive and some of my facts might be a bit confusing as I am pretty tired however I will post some more on The Holy Grail tomorrow as I will be more allert and not about to fall asleep at my computer. So yer forgive my if some of my facts are confusing or wrong.

Ok now ill addres some people.

Dawnfang The AC team might be able to incorputare some aspects of the holy grail throughout AC as it is based in the same era and location as the Knights Templar but most of the consprircy takes part in more European countrys.

Boromir323 Found, more like protected

JCtheMC Im a sucker for conspiracy theories to and I do aggree about AC keeping a non-political middle ground.

Anyway I hope to dicuss more on this topic and I also hope to see noobfun around this forumn a bit more as Im shure he will put up a healthy argument for ALL my theorys.

Thanks
Rowan

Dawnfang
06-03-2007, 11:38 AM
True, some believe the Holy Grail isn't a cup, but infact the burielplace of Mary. The cup represents her whome and thereby the bloodline of Jezus...

I won't go further into details right now, but if you're really interested please read the book 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail' from Micheal Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln. It was this book that inspired Dan Brown... just as a reminder, the things Dan Brown wrote weren't things he made up, but things large amounts of people really believe.

chewie1890
06-03-2007, 12:08 PM
Mainly because they didn't take the time to realize that he really made up quite a bit of it. Take a gander at the book The Truth Behind The Da Vinci Code. It's pretty cheap and a light read which goes through and points out the major errors in his book.

Oh and just in case, I wasn't saying you believed it, and attacking you, just throwing this out there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XxKillabytexX
06-04-2007, 05:07 AM
Ok after reading my last post in a more allert status I realised that I left out quite a bit.

Now as I mentioned before about the Holy Grail is actually the resting place of Mary Magdaline and the continuation (best word that fits there) of the blood line of Jesus Christ. Now as you read this you will probably thnk that im just copying and pasting this from some Da Vinci code website but believe you me I am not. It is true that my facination with the Holy Grail started with the Da Vinci code but since then I have studied further and read many books on the subject including "The Truth Behind the Da Vinci Code" and "Holy Blood, Holy Grial" I have also read most of the bible and the Koran. So the assumption I have come up with is not just based only of a novel by Dan Brown.

Now by discussing the Holy grail we are really discussing religion and by discussing religion we are really discussing what out true fate is going to be after we leave this Earth. But I ask you this question...isnt Religion just really a way to explain why the hell we are here? As you read this post you must think about all the people who died for thier relegion and all the wars that have happend and will continue to happen over religion.

Now without getting to off topic I must state my beleif on religion (and believe me, by saying this I mean no offence to anyone. I have my beliefs and you have your beliefs. I respect all religions and I do not wish to upset anyone with my opinion) Now I beleive that all the wars that happend over religion really shouldnt have happend. Now oviously that is a common belief but for an example I dwell your thoughts towards the 100 year Holy War which was basically a religious battle over one pice of land (Jerusleum) now in this war both the Christans and the Muslems beleived that this was the resting place of thier Massier who if you read both religious texts you find out that they are both the same person and I beleive that that person was really a person who inspired his people and helped them live a rich and prosperous life. Now as I have already said this is my belief and dont mean to insult anyone.

Oviously I have traveled a bit off topic but to understand the true meaning of the Holy Grail you must broden your herisons and understand the true meaning of religion.

Now back on topic and back to the true meaning of the holy grail (at least it think thats what this thred is about [lol]) I have previously metioned the Priory of Sion and Optuis Dei. Now these secret societies are factual and still active so dont go telling me that Dan Brown made them all up.
The Priory of Sion were neh is a secret society dedicated to protecting and finding the Holy Grail (which of corse is the bloodline of Jesus Christ) and this society consisted of many famous members Such as Sir Isac Newton and Leonardo Da Vinci.
Optus Dei is a society that is dedicated to well protecting the Secret if you could say that.

Ok Oviously this is quite a long post and contains basically nothing of what I wanted to talk about when I was starting to write it so as I summary what I have done is...

-Connected the Holy Grail to religion
-and explained the Priory of Sion and Optus Dei in a very very small nutshell

As I said I have not yet explained all of what I wanted to explain and in furture posts I will start on...

-(my favourite) symbols
-and dwell further into both the Priory and Optus Dei.

Anyway...
I recomend that is you want to learn more of this subject you start with the Da Vinci Code (even thought it is a novel it dose explain quite alot) and then go on from there.

Also fell free to contradict me on anything I have just said as I do welcom arguments and I see them as a learning experience.

One last note. please dont flam me if you havent read the post above. If you wish to argue me please do me the liberty of reading the post first.

Finally I wish to appologise for anyone I might have insulted throughout this post as I really maen no harm. I would also like to appologise for any spelling or grammer mistakes and those little stctions that just quite dont moke sence.

More posts to come.
Thanks.
Rowan.

Thumper1980
06-04-2007, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by XxKillabytexX:
Now as I mentioned before about the Holy Grail is actually the resting place of Mary Magdaline and the continuation (best word that fits there) of the blood line of Jesus Christ.

Rowan, the whole basis of your argument rests on the fact that the Da Vinci Code and the events that took place in it are true. Which naturally the catholic church denied.

No one really knows what the Grail is. Some think it's the Chalice Christ drank from at the last supper, some think it is the vessel that caught his blood when his side was speared on the cross, some other records also portray it as a magical Egyptian or Babylonian stone, or a Celtic Cauldron with productive powers, which would explain the legend about Arthur of the Britons going after it.

On the subject of Arthur. Many believe he was a Roman, all the nonsense about the Excalibur and his magical scabbard making him invincible are simply folklore.

The Knights Templar actually were focused around the Temple in the Mount and Solomons Stables around 1120 and they were kicked out 67 years later when the Saracens retook Jerusalem in 1187, which was a catalyst for the Third Crusade and created the context that AC is set in.

I heard that the Templars buried the grail on Oak Island in New Scotland off the coast of Canada, but theres some ancient mechanism prevent people from digging more than 90 feet or something. I can't remember it exactly. A lot of Grail myth is just old French medieval writers romancing over "San grial" which is Holy Grail in old French. People waste their lives trying to find it, some think it's been in Constantinople since the thirteenth century. A French poet de Troyes wrote "Perceval, le Conte du Graal" or "The story of the Holy Grail" somewhere in between 1180 or 1181 and 1191 and claimed his information was coming from a source directly from the Templars. Who by a lot of accounts were the guardians, but theres enough evidence to also support that they were trying to find something not guard it.

So how knows, who knows.
The holy grail, the spear of Longinus, the Ark of the Covenant some of the many mysteries of Christianity.

Anyone whos interested in history, I strongly recommend studying the Templars. Very interesting brotherhood of monks turned warriors.
Most don't know, but the skull and cross bone was supposedly a gift given to a Templar who raped his dead mistresses body hoping for a child. He pointed the skull at his enemies and won his battles.

Templars trained their horses to bite and kick their enemies.

Marvelous topic indeed.

T.

Micheal_Yar
06-04-2007, 07:30 AM
Now without getting to off topic I must state my beleif on religion (and believe me, by saying this I mean no offence to anyone. I have my beliefs and you have your beliefs. I respect all religions and I do not wish to upset anyone with my opinion) Now I beleive that all the wars that happend over religion really shouldnt have happend. Now oviously that is a common belief but for an example I dwell your thoughts towards the 100 year Holy War which was basically a religious battle over one pice of land (Jerusleum) now in this war both the Christans and the Muslems beleived that this was the resting place of thier Massier who if you read both religious texts you find out that they are both the same person and I beleive that that person was really a person who inspired his people and helped them live a rich and prosperous life. Now as I have already said this is my belief and dont mean to insult anyone.

Oviously I have traveled a bit off topic but to understand the true meaning of the Holy Grail you must broden your herisons and understand the true meaning of religion.

As a christian myself and also respecting all religions. Jezus and Mohammed are not the same man. I also have a fascination with all that has to do with history, so that includes religion.
And personally I don't know about the holy grail. one part of me is saying. Ya I also think that it has to do with maria magdelena , the other part is saying, seeing things that aren't there.
So IF they go this way with assasin , they have walk a very very thin line on both sites of religion I think.

knife_X
06-04-2007, 08:03 AM
Saw a program on Dicovery channel about the Da Vinci code the mainly thing this was made for was a lie so that some French noble could try to become king and yet didnt happen after that it exploded into belives and other myths surfaced!

Now I dont hope that they will bring in the holy grail cause they say some templars actually praised the head of some prophet! But the conspiracy shouldnt be so cliche, rather have something to do with jeruslem!

noobfun
06-04-2007, 12:37 PM
lollololololololol this is funny

didnt i already beat some sense in to you with the big stick of 'not believing dan brown' killabyte?

ok time to try again

dan browns story is based on research even the authors state if badly flawed, if they could link 2 things no matter how tenuous the link they accepted it as a possible fact and moved the story along. they didnt look for evidence or any other support, if it was mentioned once in folk lore, local legend or written on the back of a toilet cubicle door they took it as fact

opus day does exist and with all due respect it was originally a bunch of fat spanish shop owners who's religeon and fear of the franco goverment brought them together and they made a little bible club, the only real risk these guys pose is if you own a buisness in a city with an active opus day group, they tend to buy from each other then an outsider so better join em if you want good sales

priory of sion has come down from myth(no proof of it though) until a convicted french con man registered for a license for a group called the priory of sion(all french clubs or regualr meeting groups have to be registered by law so we know exactly when the priory of sion came in to bieng we still have the copy of the document)

strange how for such a hugely important thing the holy grail had no mention of it for over 1100 years

global warming the most recent social legend we hear about probabily 1000 times a week everything is carbon foot prints and blah blah blah



and for who ever was wittering about muhammed and jesus not bieng the same person .... guess what, jesus was a prophet in islam, and a messenger of god in christianity .... hmm wait isnt that the same thing ..... and jesus was buried around jerusalem too ..... hmmm

arturius was a roman commander serving at hadrians wall at the time the romans began to pull out of england, at the time there was also sarmatian conscripts serving in the same fort(valued for thier skill on horse back along with the allan both came from the russian steppes and fought in similar fashion to the mongols bieng as they all lived in the same area). the banners described in the earliest king arthur legends match the animal/dragon head with a windsock on the bag design used by the sarmatians. most of the places mentioned in the legends can be found in close proximity to this 1 fort the spelling has changed but they are close enough to easily see the connection. this is believed to be the beggings of the arthur and his knights myth that hollywood desided to make a really cheesy and laim film of

think ive covered everything, jeeesh take a couple of days of and 2 interesting topics jump up at once ^_^

ooo links links nearly forgot

grail loving hippies read this (http://www.crystalinks.com/holygrail.html) and this (http://www.shroud.com/scavone2.htm)

Boromir323
06-04-2007, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Thumper1980:
Most don't know, but the skull and cross bone was supposedly a gift given to a Templar who raped his dead mistresses body hoping for a child. He pointed the skull at his enemies and won his battles.


Unless I'm mistaken the skull and crossbones actuly originated when the last Head of the Templars, Jacques de Molay, was burned at the stake. His men came to look for his body but only found his skull and his femurs(thigh bones). This was the orgin of the skull and crossbones, adapted by the Skull and Bones society of Yale.

noobfun
06-04-2007, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Boromir323:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thumper1980:
Most don't know, but the skull and cross bone was supposedly a gift given to a Templar who raped his dead mistresses body hoping for a child. He pointed the skull at his enemies and won his battles.


Unless I'm mistaken the skull and crossbones actuly originated when the last Head of the Templars, Jacques de Molay, was burned at the stake. His men came to look for his body but only found his skull and his femurs(thigh bones). This was the orgin of the skull and crossbones, adapted by the Skull and Bones society of Yale. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

makes more sense then raping dead people.... probabily not as much fun though if your in to necrophilia

Boromir323
06-04-2007, 01:57 PM
hahaha

Thumper1980
06-05-2007, 12:36 AM
The Legend of the Skull of Sidon. Look it up.

XxKillabytexX
06-05-2007, 03:26 AM
Lol, great to see some people questioning my theories. Now...

Thumper1980 Yes you are right no one really knows what the Holy Grail is or weather it really exsists also I aggree with you on the basis of King Arthur as it is one of the most exaterated legends in history. As for the grail bering buried on Oak Island I have never herd of that.
With the San Grial thing...It dosent mean Holy Grail well seperate it dose however if you combine the words "Sangrail" it actually means holy blood which begs the question "What is this holy blood?" this is how historians have come to the thought of The Holy Grail being Jesus Christ's bloodline.

Micheal_Yar The same man no. The same holy spirit Yes. You have to look at it from a different perspective.
Ok so thier becommings are very different with Jesus being the son of the Virgin Mary and Mohammed being im not very strong on this topic but I do beleive that he was born into quite a large family.
However thier doings are the same (liberateing a nation {if you could put it like that} and helping the less fortunate)
They also share the same holy Land with the Dome of Rock and the Jewish Temple being built and fought over in the same very damn place. (See noobfuns comment on this for a better view of my thoughts)
Now discussing religion is a very confusing and trying topic with the reccords being very vage at best so I recont that to really get a good view on religion you must look at it from a totally different angle and as my belief is "All religion is basically to figure out why the bloody hell were here-The meaning of life" Just think of all those who died in the Holy war and spear a thought for all those Jews who were exacuted on the 6th day of the 6th month of the 6th year all that death and suffering happend just to awnser one question "Why are we here?"

knife_X Ill make this easy for you DO NOT BELEIVE ANY OF THAT CR@P THAT YOU SEE IN DA VINCI CODE DOCUMENTRIES because all of the people that are on them probably havent even read the Da Vinci Code trust me its a load of bloody bull**** what they put on those programs. Your better off listening to a public school history teacher (although I wouldnt recomend that either)

noobfun Haha, good to see you back my friend I trust you have been doing well.Now as for my so called "Da Vinci Code story book"...
lol, Love what you said about Optus Dei but if they were such a (and I quote) "a bunch of fat spanish shop owners who's religeon and fear of the franco goverment brought them together and they made a little bible club" then why all the self injuring and the feeling the pain of Jesus they have going...humm?
Also thanks for the links.

Ok I think thats about it. Look forward to discussing more tomorrow.
Thanks
Rowan (noobfun..just call me Rowan, its shorter)
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tirinel
06-05-2007, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by moqqy:
Nah, the game is supposed to be realistic, so what would the Holy Grail do?
Realistic? How do you know that the Grail istn't real?

knife_X
06-05-2007, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Tirinel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
Nah, the game is supposed to be realistic, so what would the Holy Grail do?
Realistic? How do you know that the Grail istn't real? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you belive in heaven and hell to...

A.B.O.Y
06-05-2007, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by knife_X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tirinel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
Nah, the game is supposed to be realistic, so what would the Holy Grail do?
Realistic? How do you know that the Grail istn't real? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you belive in heaven and hell to... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well i do....so How do you no that the grail isn't real?

chewie1890
06-05-2007, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by knife_X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tirinel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
Nah, the game is supposed to be realistic, so what would the Holy Grail do?
Realistic? How do you know that the Grail istn't real? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you belive in heaven and hell to... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we need to stop THAT right now. Gotta avoid this becoming a religious debate, this could end very badly...

Boromir323
06-05-2007, 01:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
Yeah no religion wars please people.
Personally I dont see why the grail couldnt be featured in AC. Its not 100% historically accurate.

Thumper1980
06-06-2007, 01:22 AM
Why would Altair. A political assassin have anything to do with a Christian artifact.
The rest of the crusaders are too busy fighting a war to search for treasure.

There won't be any significant mention of the grail.

Dawnfang
06-06-2007, 02:10 AM
@ Thumper1980:

Why would a politcal assassin have anything to do with a Christian artifact? Well, that's obvious:

If the Grail is in fact the Holy bloodline of Jezus Christ and if the title of Jezus Christ as the true king of the Jews is correct, than this would mean that his decendens are the true heirs to the throne... this could cause great shock in the World and especially in the Middle East...

So, eventhough the Holy Grail is a Christian artifact, if it is the bloodnline of Jezus aswell, than it is also a political artifact!

Thumper1980
06-06-2007, 02:35 AM
Why is it obvious?
"King of the jews" was the romans mocking Jesus. It was what they mounted onto of the cross when they crucified him.
In Christian literature he is part of the Holy Trinity therefore being the human incarnation of god. "God The Son" along with the two other parts of the trinity "God The Father" "God the Holy Spirit"
As a human, he's a carpenters son, and to his followers the Messiah roughly translated as "The Chosen one". He is thought to be the descendant of King David, but theres hundreds of years of blood, so, I don't know what your talking about.

So, in conclusion I repeat, Why would Altair. A political assassin have anything to do with a Christian artifact.

XxKillabytexX
06-06-2007, 04:48 AM
But the bible states that Jesus is actually a Jew. Im pretty shure its somewere in the gospel according to Jhon and I find that hard to beleive, that the Romans nailed "King of the Jews" to Jesus cross after not many Romans actually wanted Jesus dead. It was under Ceasars orders that he be crusified as he went aginst the beliefs of the Romans so really the only people that wanted Jesus crusified was, Ceasar, High members of the senate (because of money) and Prests. Shure some members of the general public might have been brainwashed but a majority of the Roman lower class population just watched the only person who actually treated them like he treated everyone else die amongst criminals.

Thumper1980
06-06-2007, 05:02 AM
I never denied Jesus was a Jew.

And if you don't know about the sign above Jesus' head. You quite obviously haven't read the bible very well.

knife_X
06-06-2007, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by XxKillabytexX:
But the bible states that Jesus is actually a Jew. Im pretty shure its somewere in the gospel according to Jhon and I find that hard to beleive, that the Romans nailed "King of the Jews" to Jesus cross after not many Romans actually wanted Jesus dead. It was under Ceasars orders that he be crusified as he went aginst the beliefs of the Romans so really the only people that wanted Jesus crusified was, Ceasar, High members of the senate (because of money) and Prests. Shure some members of the general public might have been brainwashed but a majority of the Roman lower class population just watched the only person who actually treated them like he treated everyone else die amongst criminals.

He was orderd crucified by Pontius Pilate, and it seems to me that you actually belive in the Da Vinci code witch by my rules makes you a degenerate and I am not gonna read your posts anymore and you not mine deal... good!

XxKillabytexX
06-06-2007, 05:47 AM
Thumper1980 Sorry man, missunderstood your post and I forgot to put some stuff in my post so basically I dont think your lying about the sign I just cant remember anything about it.

knife_X I would like to appologise for any offence I may have caused you, and you must know that I do respect all religions and im just trying to make some sence of it all.

Thanks
Rowan

Thumper1980
06-06-2007, 05:59 AM
No worries mate.
Wasn't a burn, I'm enjoying this conversation

Dawnfang
06-06-2007, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Thumper1980:
Why is it obvious?
"King of the jews" was the romans mocking Jesus. It was what they mounted onto of the cross when they crucified him.
In Christian literature he is part of the Holy Trinity therefore being the human incarnation of god. "God The Son" along with the two other parts of the trinity "God The Father" "God the Holy Spirit"
As a human, he's a carpenters son, and to his followers the Messiah roughly translated as "The Chosen one". He is thought to be the descendant of King David, but theres hundreds of years of blood, so, I don't know what your talking about.

So, in conclusion I repeat, Why would Altair. A political assassin have anything to do with a Christian artifact.

Well, that is to be seen. According to Matthhew, for example, Jezus was an aristocrat, if not a rightful and legitimate king -descended from David via Solomon. According to Luke, on the other hand, Jezus's family, though descended from the house of David, was of somewhat less exalted stock; and it is on the basis of Mark's account that the legend of the 'poor carpenter' came into being.

Jezus being the true heir to the thrown would make sense. This would also explain the crucifixion: Given the portrait of him in the Gospels, it is enexplicable that jezus was crucified at all. According to the Gospels, his enemies were the established Jewish interests in Jerusalem. But such enemies, if they in fact existed, could have stoned him to death of their own accord and on their own authority, without involving Rome in the matter. According to the Gospels, Jezus had no particular quarrel with Rome and did not violate Roman Law. And yet he was punished by the Romans, in accordance with Roman Law and Roman procedures. And he wa punished by crucifixion, a penalty exlusively reserved for those guilty of crimes against the empire. If Jezus was indeed crucified (which also can be questioned, for further info on that read: 4:157 of the Koran), he cannot have been as apolitical as the Gospels and you depict him. On the contrary, he must, of necessity, have done something to provoke the Roman wrath

And take this into account: In the Gospel of Mark, Pilate, after interrogating Jezus, asks the assembled dignitaries, 'what will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?'(mark 15:21) This would seem to indicate that at leat some Jews do actually refer to Jesus as their King, At the same time, however, in all four Gospels Pilate also accords Jezus that title. There is no reason to suppose that he does so ironically or derisively. In the fourth Gospel he insists on it quite adamantly and seriously, despite a chorus of protests. In the three Synoptic Gospels, moreover, Jesus himself acknowledged his claim to the title: 'And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.'(mark 15:2) In the english translation this reply may sound ambivalent -perhaps deliberately so. In the original Greek, however, its import is quite unequivocal. It can only be interpreted as 'Thou hast spoken correctly'. And thus the phrase is interpreted whenever it appears elsewhere in the Bible.

What I just want to say is that we know very little about the true jezus and who he was. Some say he was rich and walked among the rich (look for example at the Lazurus story, the wedding at Cana or his friendship with Joseph of Arimathea to name a few). We know very little about him, because the Bible is a 'made-concept' Only four Gospels are to be found, but many were destroyed. In A.D. 367 Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria compiled a list of works to be included in the New Testament. This list was ratified by the Church Council of Hippo in 393 and again by the Council of Cartharge four years later. At these councils a selection was agreed upon. Certain works were assembled to form the New testament as we know it today, and others were cavaliery ignored. This made the Bible, not the reports of the ones who wrote the Gospels.

Thus, Jezus being a true King wouldn't be that silly.

All in all, if the Holy Grail is infact the bloodline of Jezus Christ, than this is very much political. If there is a bloodline, than lets pray to God that this will never see the daylight, because such a bloodline will cause a great and dangereous disturbance...

Dawnfang
06-06-2007, 07:13 AM
Oh, and by the way, please don't believe that **** from THE DA VINCI CODE... it's all bullocks. In fact, the priory of Sion never existed and there is nothing sinister (anymore) about Opus Dei...

Thumper1980
06-06-2007, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Dawnfang:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thumper1980:
Why is it obvious?
"King of the jews" was the romans mocking Jesus. It was what they mounted onto of the cross when they crucified him.
In Christian literature he is part of the Holy Trinity therefore being the human incarnation of god. "God The Son" along with the two other parts of the trinity "God The Father" "God the Holy Spirit"
As a human, he's a carpenters son, and to his followers the Messiah roughly translated as "The Chosen one". He is thought to be the descendant of King David, but theres hundreds of years of blood, so, I don't know what your talking about.

So, in conclusion I repeat, Why would Altair. A political assassin have anything to do with a Christian artifact.

Well, that is to be seen. According to Matthhew, for example, Jezus was an aristocrat, if not a rightful and legitimate king -descended from David via Solomon. According to Luke, on the other hand, Jezus's family, though descended from the house of David, was of somewhat less exalted stock; and it is on the basis of Mark's account that the legend of the 'poor carpenter' came into being.

Jezus being the true heir to the thrown would make sense. This would also explain the crucifixion: Given the portrait of him in the Gospels, it is enexplicable that jezus was crucified at all. According to the Gospels, his enemies were the established Jewish interests in Jerusalem. But such enemies, if they in fact existed, could have stoned him to death of their own accord and on their own authority, without involving Rome in the matter. According to the Gospels, Jezus had no particular quarrel with Rome and did not violate Roman Law. And yet he was punished by the Romans, in accordance with Roman Law and Roman procedures. And he wa punished by crucifixion, a penalty exlusively reserved for those guilty of crimes against the empire. If Jezus was indeed crucified (which also can be questioned, for further info on that read: 4:157 of the Koran), he cannot have been as apolitical as the Gospels and you depict him. On the contrary, he must, of necessity, have done something to provoke the Roman wrath

And take this into account: In the Gospel of Mark, Pilate, after interrogating Jezus, asks the assembled dignitaries, 'what will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?'(mark 15:21) This would seem to indicate that at leat some Jews do actually refer to Jesus as their King, At the same time, however, in all four Gospels Pilate also accords Jezus that title. There is no reason to suppose that he does so ironically or derisively. In the fourth Gospel he insists on it quite adamantly and seriously, despite a chorus of protests. In the three Synoptic Gospels, moreover, Jesus himself acknowledged his claim to the title: 'And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.'(mark 15:2) In the english translation this reply may sound ambivalent -perhaps deliberately so. In the original Greek, however, its import is quite unequivocal. It can only be interpreted as 'Thou hast spoken correctly'. And thus the phrase is interpreted whenever it appears elsewhere in the Bible.

What I just want to say is that we know very little about the true jezus and who he was. Some say he was rich and walked among the rich (look for example at the Lazurus story, the wedding at Cana or his friendship with Joseph of Arimathea to name a few). We know very little about him, because the Bible is a 'made-concept' Only four Gospels are to be found, but many were destroyed. In A.D. 367 Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria compiled a list of works to be included in the New Testament. This list was ratified by the Church Council of Hippo in 393 and again by the Council of Cartharge four years later. At these councils a selection was agreed upon. Certain works were assembled to form the New testament as we know it today, and others were cavaliery ignored. This made the Bible, not the reports of the ones who wrote the Gospels.

Thus, Jezus being a true King wouldn't be that silly.

All in all, if the Holy Grail is infact the bloodline of Jezus Christ, than this is very much political. If there is a bloodline, than lets pray to God that this will never see the daylight, because such a bloodline will cause a great and dangereous disturbance... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif You bring up some good points, have you ever studied theology? if you don't mind me asking, because you are very well informed.

As you say, the life of Jesus is disputable. All of the gospels were written some time after Jesus' death and I think the 3 synoptic gospels claimed to get their sources from Q. I don't recall the specifics, i studied it a while ago.

As for the grail ever being found...
It's been hidden for a good 2000 years. I think it's pretty safe to say it'd be pot luck if anyone found it. Only Indiana Jones ever found it, and he's a genius! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dawnfang
06-06-2007, 07:34 AM
Probably, let's hope so...

Anyway, we're drifting. I think adding the Holy Grail to AC isn't that far fetched. Wether it is a cup, a treasure or indeed the bloodline of Christ, it could be in.

Thumper1980
06-06-2007, 07:36 AM
Might get a mention as part of idle conversation.
But i doubt anything further.

JCtheMC
06-06-2007, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Dawnfang:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thumper1980:
Why is it obvious?
"King of the jews" was the romans mocking Jesus. It was what they mounted onto of the cross when they crucified him.
In Christian literature he is part of the Holy Trinity therefore being the human incarnation of god. "God The Son" along with the two other parts of the trinity "God The Father" "God the Holy Spirit"
As a human, he's a carpenters son, and to his followers the Messiah roughly translated as "The Chosen one". He is thought to be the descendant of King David, but theres hundreds of years of blood, so, I don't know what your talking about.

So, in conclusion I repeat, Why would Altair. A political assassin have anything to do with a Christian artifact.

Well, that is to be seen. According to Matthhew, for example, Jezus was an aristocrat, if not a rightful and legitimate king -descended from David via Solomon. According to Luke, on the other hand, Jezus's family, though descended from the house of David, was of somewhat less exalted stock; and it is on the basis of Mark's account that the legend of the 'poor carpenter' came into being.

Jezus being the true heir to the thrown would make sense. This would also explain the crucifixion: Given the portrait of him in the Gospels, it is enexplicable that jezus was crucified at all. According to the Gospels, his enemies were the established Jewish interests in Jerusalem. But such enemies, if they in fact existed, could have stoned him to death of their own accord and on their own authority, without involving Rome in the matter. According to the Gospels, Jezus had no particular quarrel with Rome and did not violate Roman Law. And yet he was punished by the Romans, in accordance with Roman Law and Roman procedures. And he wa punished by crucifixion, a penalty exlusively reserved for those guilty of crimes against the empire. If Jezus was indeed crucified (which also can be questioned, for further info on that read: 4:157 of the Koran), he cannot have been as apolitical as the Gospels and you depict him. On the contrary, he must, of necessity, have done something to provoke the Roman wrath

And take this into account: In the Gospel of Mark, Pilate, after interrogating Jezus, asks the assembled dignitaries, 'what will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?'(mark 15:21) This would seem to indicate that at leat some Jews do actually refer to Jesus as their King, At the same time, however, in all four Gospels Pilate also accords Jezus that title. There is no reason to suppose that he does so ironically or derisively. In the fourth Gospel he insists on it quite adamantly and seriously, despite a chorus of protests. In the three Synoptic Gospels, moreover, Jesus himself acknowledged his claim to the title: 'And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.'(mark 15:2) In the english translation this reply may sound ambivalent -perhaps deliberately so. In the original Greek, however, its import is quite unequivocal. It can only be interpreted as 'Thou hast spoken correctly'. And thus the phrase is interpreted whenever it appears elsewhere in the Bible.

What I just want to say is that we know very little about the true jezus and who he was. Some say he was rich and walked among the rich (look for example at the Lazurus story, the wedding at Cana or his friendship with Joseph of Arimathea to name a few). We know very little about him, because the Bible is a 'made-concept' Only four Gospels are to be found, but many were destroyed. In A.D. 367 Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria compiled a list of works to be included in the New Testament. This list was ratified by the Church Council of Hippo in 393 and again by the Council of Cartharge four years later. At these councils a selection was agreed upon. Certain works were assembled to form the New testament as we know it today, and others were cavaliery ignored. This made the Bible, not the reports of the ones who wrote the Gospels.

Thus, Jezus being a true King wouldn't be that silly.

All in all, if the Holy Grail is infact the bloodline of Jezus Christ, than this is very much political. If there is a bloodline, than lets pray to God that this will never see the daylight, because such a bloodline will cause a great and dangereous disturbance... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably one of the best posts on this forum.
For someone who was actually raised Roman Catholic i really don't know enough about this stuff. Man that was a good read.

Dawnfang
06-06-2007, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by JCtheMC:
Probably one of the best posts on this forum.
For someone who was actually raised Roman Catholic i really don't know enough about this stuff. Man that was a good read.

I myself am Roman Catholic aswell. However, this doesn't automatically mean I believe everything that is written. I like studying historie and theology, but studying the Bible is probably the hardest thing to do. After all, religion is emotion and far from concrete... Concerning the Bible, one has to ask himself: 'Do we believe what we believe, or do we believe what is written?'

Anyway, this topic is not about AC anymore... so, there's only one thing left to do:

AC ROCKS! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

quicksilver_502
06-06-2007, 12:33 PM
he chose poorly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif


ni ni ni

can't think of anymore films with the holy grail in

A.B.O.Y
06-06-2007, 02:08 PM
Yeh AC ROCKS! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Woooooooooo

XxKillabytexX
06-07-2007, 03:13 AM
Yes we all know AC rocks but I think that this forumn has kinda formed into a holy grail forumn. However if you are one of those people who like to abite by the forumn rules then you might like to continue our little convosation in this thred here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/9081084145?r=9081084145#9081084145) or this one here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/9751039045/p/2) or you might like to start your own thred because both those threds are not directly related to the holy grail.

Anyway...
Dawnfang Im shocked and amazed that someone would question the existance of the priory of sion. However I enjoy a good arguement and would like to say that they are a true organisation. Proof I have but I don't trust the internet and all the proof I have of the priory of sion in in books. However I am trying to find a site that basically ses what is in the books but right now I cannot. So please state your argument and then I will contradict what I can which will save me typing out a few thousand pages.
Also I liked your explanation you wrote on the "King of the Jews" thing.

Thanks
Rowan

JCtheMC
06-07-2007, 03:34 AM
Rowan, stop taking LSD and polluting the topic, some people are trying to have a fact-based conversation here.

Dawnfang
06-07-2007, 08:25 AM
Pff...explaining that the Priory of Sion didn't exist... where to begin, where to begin. First off all, let me say that there is no proof of whatsoever that a certain priory ever existed. Nor that key people like Newton and Da Vinci were members. If you've got proof that can be checked, please inform me on that.

But let's go one step back:

When we're thinking about the Priory of Sion, one name comes in mind: Pierre Plantard, alleged Grand Master of the Priory. However, this man is a fake.

Why? Well, it all started in 1885 in the tiny French village of Rennes-le-Chateau. To keep things short, it was believed that the priest of this village, Bérenger Saunière found a treasure which made him very rich. However, this wasn't a treasure made of coins, but of documents. These documents (whatever the content of it was) were very important to the Vatican. So important, that the Vatican paid great sums of money for it, so Saunière would never speak about the documents again. What was in the documents? Some say the documents proofed there was a bloodline of Jesus Christ...

Is this story true? No. It would be fun, but it's probably fake. It's likely the story is made up by the present owner of Saunière's castle. This man (of whom I forget the name) bought Saunière's castle to make a hotel in it. Business went bad, so he had to make up a story to attracted people. It's true that Saunière suddenly became very rich... no one knows why, but probably because he sold masses for extreme high prices. However, attracting customers by saying they can sleep in the castle of a fraud isn't breathtaking, so he made up the story that Saunière found some mysterious documents... it worked; people from all over France came to stay for the night in the mysterious castle/ hotel.

Pierre Plantard heard of this story and liked it so much that he wanted to benefit from it himself. He made up the so called Dossiers Secrets, filled it with stories of templars, a priory of Sion and a list of names from Grand Masters. He linked the dossiers to the story of Saunière, hid them in the Library of Paris, only to reveal them himself a couple of years later...

THUS, the story was born: the making ups from a hotelier trying to get customers and a lunatic with delusions of grandeur.

There is no such evidence that the Priory of Sion ever existed. Nor that famous people where it's members. Yes, there was a so called Ordre de Sion and there even was a Notre Dame du Mont de Sion in fiftheenth-century Jerusalem. However, these things were nothing like the what the Priory of Sion is supposed to be. The Priory of Sion is made up by Plantard!

I wanne keep things short and my story is lacking some information, but let me say this: There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the Priory of Sion exists or existed. The priory is made up by Pierre Plantard. There is no evidence that the names found on the Grand-Master list where members. Those people never spoke about it, nor is there evidence they were members of organisations like that (apart from some of them who were infact Free Masons).

If you like, I'll go deeper into things, but for now: take me for my word. However, I'm very interested to see some proof that says I'm wrong.

saritan
06-09-2007, 09:47 PM
Back to pure facts.
1) This game is the first of a series.
2) Recently religion and mithilogical movies have been pupular, as has been paperack versions (DaVinci Code, The Eight, 300, etc etc).
3)It has been hinted that future games will have a futuristic take.
4)This first game focuses upon the Assassins sect, effect of religouse zealots, and their conflicts.

Thus I conclude: Could it not be that this series will go one of two ways
- 1. This game is an intorudction to present/future political/religouse events, allowing us to know from where the character and plot motivation has come.
- 2. This game is infact in a sense "back-to-the-future" style. I.e a person/group are influencing either directly or indirectly the past in order to bring about and event.

Either way the main focus will not be known untill we play the final game of the series.
Pray to god it is soon.

moqqy
06-09-2007, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by JCtheMC:
Rowan, stop taking LSD and polluting the topic, some people are trying to have a fact-based conversation here.

hahahaha meanie

P.S saritan rather pray to ubisoft

noobfun
06-10-2007, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by JCtheMC:
Rowan, stop taking LSD and polluting the topic, some people are trying to have a fact-based conversation here.

rowans doing somthing your not ... bringing ideas and a bit of fun discussion ...

bring a few ideas to the table or find somthing else to do while we have fun


i never went anywhere rowan im just sitting back and avoiding some of the more dumb stuff that appears around here

yepp opus day members can choose to go down the road of a bit of self harming, its more annoyance then real pain, theres a long history of this in the catholic church, flaglents are an extreme example but in many monastic orders self flegulance was used to punish your self for unchristian thoughts and actions

the pain bringing you closer to the mind of jesus when he was on the cross, accepting the pain and ignoring it to carry out your christian duty

its symbolic ...

the whole holy blood, holy grail relise on the priory of sion existing in the sense of the book

there was a monastry of sion around the first crusade but a monastry is drastically different to a priory

during 1993 a search was carried out at Pierre Plantard's home in relation to a court case, the police found masses of faked material realting to the priory of sion and plantards supposed hier'ship to the french crown, during the court case while under oath he admitted the the material and stories had been faked by himself and a few friends during the 60's and 70's

if the priory of sion didnt exist the templars wernt thier armed wing and didnt protect the holy blood line, if the holy blood line wasnt protected by sion then it wasnt trying to be destroyed by opus day

the nostic gospel of mary doesnt say that they were lovers or husband and wife so we cant prove/disprove that he had children it simply says 'jesus kissed her on' then there is a missing patch that could have said anything, if they were lovers or married why would that upset the disciples which is picked up after the missing fragment, though the bible does mention brothers of jesus, though that his widly disputed by the catholic church otherwise the virgin mary didnt stay a virgin like the church insists which seems a slightly foolish idea to me

on the subjects of nostic gospels the latest find was the gospel of judas, for a man that commited suicide straight after jesus died he wrote a fairly lengthy gospel, in it he says that he dreamt he would hand jesus over to the romans, fearing it as an ill omen he spoke to jesus about the dream and jesus told him it was a message from god and that was what he must do

this relates to 1 of the 3 tellings of the last supper in the accepted gospels

jesus simply said that one amongst us will hand me to the romans

the later retallings step this up a notch

jesus says one amongst us will betray me to the romans, later he kisses judas to indicate his guilt and to forgive him

jesus said one amongst us is a traitor i will break bread and who ever i pass it to is the traitor *breaks bread hands it judas who runs from the room*

its thought the 2 more extreme retellings were written during or after the jewish uprising in the holy land in an effort to distance christianity from judaism during or after the jewish uprising in the holy land

much of what was included in the bible was as much for political reasons as religeous, the roamn empire had suffered badly after several cival wars, uprisings in the out reaches of the empire were becoming a constant threat and with the barbarian nations pressing back agaisnt the borders it was an effort to unite and intigrate the growing numbers of cristians into the empire and quel dissent strengthening the empire

ironically they left in revelations, which describes the end of the world as the roman invasion and occupation of the holy land

some stuff relating to the nostics and the fakeing of the priory of sion can be found here (http://www.cathar.info/prioryofsion.htm)

p.s.


2. This game is infact in a sense "back-to-the-future" style. I.e a person/group are influencing either directly or indirectly the past in order to bring about and event.


they are reading genetic memories so they cant change or infulence the past, mearly view it so they arnt changing the past but somthing from the past is influencing and creating a situation in the present(game present as its set slightly in the future)

AldirTheKnight
06-10-2007, 10:36 AM
about the person that said Jesus and Mohammed were the same person, mohammed died in the 7th century AD, which means more than 500 years after the death of christ, after his death (mohammed's), the Islam began rising in power, thus the crusades being called some 400 years later