PDA

View Full Version : Bf109 G6 - Need for speed



GazzaMataz
05-12-2007, 12:19 PM
Apart form playing online late in the evening at the weekends I like to play the German campaign. So far I have reached the Crimea in September 1943 and am flying Bf109 G6s.

The proplem that I am having though is trying to catch those damn LAs and Yaks. I find that I give chase and by closing the radiator I can get a bit more speed. But just as I am closing one of my own squadron just flies in and steals the kill after all my hard work!

Is there anyway that I can squeeze just a little more speed out of these darn birds? I don't seem to be able to adjust the prop pitch but would that make any difference.

I mean if the AIs can fly that fast why can't I?

Superluminal_8
05-12-2007, 12:29 PM
Shift+0,prop pitch auto/manual

DKoor
05-12-2007, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by GazzaMataz:
Is there anyway that I can squeeze just a little more speed out of these darn birds? I don't seem to be able to adjust the prop pitch but would that make any difference. The only thing you can achieve is actually loss of power with manual pp.... see the prop pitch 109 thread for more info. You can always close the rad tho and squeeze extra 20km/h or so...

Thing is 109 has apparently optimal rpm range and if you exceed it, or if you have lower rpm's engine wont run at max power output.... well that's layman explanation anyway.
For some 109G's optimum in climb was ~2,700rpm.

FluffyDucks2
05-12-2007, 12:34 PM
AI cheat, period. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

GazzaMataz
05-12-2007, 12:52 PM
AI cheat, period.
Tell me about it! That's why I gave up using QMB.

Anyway, looks like prop pitch adjustment is a no, no just have to close that rad for longer...

Thnx guys!

DKoor
05-12-2007, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by GazzaMataz:
close that rad for longer... Just.... don't forget to actually open it in non-combat climb. It'll elongate time till overheat

Closed rad works best in dive(s) and level flite


Thnx guys! You're welcome

horseback
05-12-2007, 02:41 PM
The best method for avoiding the "my wingman just caught up and passed me to shoot down MY target" syndrome is to go into the FMB to your current campaign and downgrade your AI wingies from Ace/Veteran to Average/Rookie, paying particular attention to demoting the 1s, 3s, 5s, etc. You then Save the mission and then return to your campaign to fly it without having some AI vulture warp in ahead of you.

In my experience in offline campaigning since the introduction of the Pacific Fighters addon (when much of the friendly AI behavior routines started going to hell), the 'Friendly' Ace or Veteran is good ONLY for stealing the Player's kills.

You're better off without 'em 95% of the time.

cheers

horseback

Blood_Splat
05-12-2007, 02:45 PM
AI accelerates like they are being pulled by a magnetic force. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2007, 05:15 PM
What La's are you flying against? All La-5's are faster than the G-6.

Rammjaeger
05-12-2007, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
The best method for avoiding the "my wingman just caught up and passed me to shoot down MY target" syndrome is to go into the FMB to your current campaign and downgrade your AI wingies from Ace/Veteran to Average/Rookie, paying particular attention to demoting the 1s, 3s, 5s, etc.

That sounds like a very bad idea. Squadron members who survive multiple missions will see their skills improve. I often got saved by my veteran/ace wingman when flying offline campaigns in IL-2 1946.

vsk2006
05-12-2007, 06:36 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FluffyDucks2:
AI cheat, period.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Also, in my humble opinion, the G6 must be one of the most under modeled airplanes of il2 (same with fw 190). I just find it very hard to believe that the german engineers could have designed and manufactured a plane in 1943 that was that much inferior to the G2 (1942). Even though most of G6's had heavier armament (MK108 30mm) and powerplant, IMO those aren't enough to deteriorate the flight performance of the G6 that much (the turning radius and the climb rate are much inferior when compared with the G2). Of course, all of this is said with a great deal of respect to Oleg's team who probably made the best game that I have ever played and the only game that I play nowadays.

Ps:sorry for my english. It isn't my native language.

lowfighter
05-12-2007, 09:15 PM
Depending on situation if you command a flight you can order them to "rejoin" or "cover me". So no. 3 will abort his treacherous attack and come back behind you. But it doesn't happen all the time, sometimes they say "Copy" but go on with the attack.
If you command a squadron and another flight from the squadron is stealing ahead of you, you can order that flight "cover me". It's not a good idea though in a complicated situation to order the whole squadron to "cover me", because if there are several fights in which the squadron is involved it might result in desaster results. As I said this trick depends on the situation tactical situation...
Ah, if they obey, just wait a couple of seconds till you sure you got ahead and then issue "rejoin" to the guilty flight in your squadron to stop covering you.

LStarosta
05-12-2007, 09:31 PM
VSK, I disagree.

Try G6 A/S.

IL2-chuter
05-13-2007, 04:48 AM
Actually, the G6 late should have water injection . . . but then that would basically be the games G14 . . . oh well . . .

GazzaMataz
05-13-2007, 04:54 AM
"my wingman just caught up and passed me to shoot down MY target" syndrome
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I didn't know there was one!

All good and helpful answers chaps, I must admit I have tried shooing away my flight and sometimes squadron from me to let me concentrate on my target, but sometimes this can get me in trouble.

I didn't realise that I could modify the campaign settings like that I will have a look.

As for the G6 when I originally flew it in Il-2 (The Original) it was a lump of a plane then. I don't know how it compares with real life. I mean it was heavier in armament and engine but it was made more powerful to compensate - right?

Didn't many of German's most famous Aces get their highest scores in this model?

JG53Frankyboy
05-13-2007, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by GazzaMataz:
Apart form playing online late in the evening at the weekends I like to play the German campaign. So far I have reached the Crimea in September 1943 and am flying Bf109 G6s.

The proplem that I am having though is trying to catch those damn LAs and Yaks. I find that I give chase and by closing the radiator I can get a bit more speed. But just as I am closing one of my own squadron just flies in and steals the kill after all my hard work!

Is there anyway that I can squeeze just a little more speed out of these darn birds? I don't seem to be able to adjust the prop pitch but would that make any difference.

I mean if the AIs can fly that fast why can't I?

look in the il2compare tool - than you see why you cant catch Yaks ans Las in a 109G6........ espacially not at low level !

JG53Frankyboy
05-13-2007, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by GazzaMataz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"my wingman just caught up and passed me to shoot down MY target" syndrome
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I didn't know there was one!

All good and helpful answers chaps, I must admit I have tried shooing away my flight and sometimes squadron from me to let me concentrate on my target, but sometimes this can get me in trouble.

I didn't realise that I could modify the campaign settings like that I will have a look.

As for the G6 when I originally flew it in Il-2 (The Original) it was a lump of a plane then. I don't know how it compares with real life. I mean it was heavier in armament and engine but it was made more powerful to compensate - right?

Didn't many of German's most famous Aces get their highest scores in this model? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the G-6 had exact the same engine as the G-2....... and it had more drag than the G-2 - so for sure it was a little bit slower.
but it had most propably not so much more weight than in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

therefore the difference in climb and turn is "huge" in game between the two versions.

thier ingame sealevel speed is actually almost the same......... but the G-6 is loosing speed wihle flying at higher alts much faster than the G-2. that "fact" i wondering !?!?!?!?

vsk2006
05-13-2007, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GazzaMataz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"my wingman just caught up and passed me to shoot down MY target" syndrome
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I didn't know there was one!

All good and helpful answers chaps, I must admit I have tried shooing away my flight and sometimes squadron from me to let me concentrate on my target, but sometimes this can get me in trouble.

I didn't realise that I could modify the campaign settings like that I will have a look.

As for the G6 when I originally flew it in Il-2 (The Original) it was a lump of a plane then. I don't know how it compares with real life. I mean it was heavier in armament and engine but it was made more powerful to compensate - right?

Didn't many of German's most famous Aces get their highest scores in this model? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the G-6 had exact the same engine as the G-2....... and it had more drag than the G-2 - so for sure it was a little bit slower.
but it had most propably not so much more weight than in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

therefore the difference in climb and turn is "huge" in game between the two versions.

thier ingame sealevel speed is actually almost the same......... but the G-6 is loosing speed wihle flying at higher alts much faster than the G-2. that "fact" i wondering !?!?!?!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well I don´t think it is exactly true JG53Frankyboy. I mean you´re right, in the game it is true, but from what I have read on the subject matter, I was leaded to conclude that the G2 had a Daimler Benz 605 A-1 while the G6 had a DB 605 with a MW-50 water-methanol power boosting system which gave the G6 1800 hp instead of the 1475 in G2. I know that the G6 saw a variety of DB versions (D,AM, AS, ASB, ASD...) but I think it is fair to say that a good part of messerschmitts built in the first half of 1943 where equipped with the DB 605 D, due to the fact that the early G6 was similar with the serial G5 (who was his contemporary and had been built with the DB 605 D). So I guess that the G6 truly had a more powerful engine than the G2, especially counting the water-methanol device which was surely useful when fighting the faster Yaks and Las. But hey if i´m wrong please correct me.

Sure GazzaMataz, most of the Luftwaffe aces were bf 109 pilots (Hartmann, Barkhorn, Rall). Their respect and admiration towards the bf 109 was so great, that they even preferred the bf to the fw 190, which is generally considered a much better fighter.

JG4_Helofly
05-13-2007, 09:59 AM
Kurfrst should know what the main difference was between the G2 and G6. I know that the G5 was nearly the same aircraft than the G2, they just put bigger weels on it and a new com equipment.
The G6 hab a little more drag and weight but not much. In game there is a huge difference in weight and perfromance.

JtD
05-13-2007, 01:11 PM
G-2 and G-6 have the same engine, producing just 1350 hp since the run at only 1.3 ata. Or so. MW50 injection is what you get on the G-6AS.

mynameisroland
05-13-2007, 01:46 PM
It would be very nice - and make some sense, if we had a 1.42 ATA Bf 109 G6 Late. We have the plane but it performs at the same earlier DB 605's boost setting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Xiolablu3
05-13-2007, 05:38 PM
A better performing 109G6 would be a great addition to the sim, as for game balanced Map makers have to use the earlier 109G2 in order to compete with teh Spit IX's,La5's and P51B's.

This is unhistorical, the Bf109G6 was the most numerous BF109 and I cant think that it was quite as uncompetetive as the Bf109G6 we have in the sim right now.

I know its not a critical problem because the Bf109G2 is a good substitute and a very effective aircraft, however seeing so many BF109G2's in the air is unhistorical. It shoudl be BF109G6's which were the workhorse of the Luftwaffe.

The gap between the Bf109G2 and the Bf109G6 is too large IMO.

I think people have proved that the turn of hte Bf109G6 is not good enough, meaning that its much poorer as a dogfighter than the G2.

JG53Frankyboy
05-14-2007, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by vsk2006:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GazzaMataz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"my wingman just caught up and passed me to shoot down MY target" syndrome
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I didn't know there was one!

All good and helpful answers chaps, I must admit I have tried shooing away my flight and sometimes squadron from me to let me concentrate on my target, but sometimes this can get me in trouble.

I didn't realise that I could modify the campaign settings like that I will have a look.

As for the G6 when I originally flew it in Il-2 (The Original) it was a lump of a plane then. I don't know how it compares with real life. I mean it was heavier in armament and engine but it was made more powerful to compensate - right?

Didn't many of German's most famous Aces get their highest scores in this model? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the G-6 had exact the same engine as the G-2....... and it had more drag than the G-2 - so for sure it was a little bit slower.
but it had most propably not so much more weight than in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

therefore the difference in climb and turn is "huge" in game between the two versions.

thier ingame sealevel speed is actually almost the same......... but the G-6 is loosing speed wihle flying at higher alts much faster than the G-2. that "fact" i wondering !?!?!?!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well I don´t think it is exactly true JG53Frankyboy. I mean you´re right, in the game it is true, but from what I have read on the subject matter, I was leaded to conclude that the G2 had a Daimler Benz 605 A-1 while the G6 had a DB 605 with a MW-50 water-methanol power boosting system which gave the G6 1800 hp instead of the 1475 in G2. I know that the G6 saw a variety of DB versions (D,AM, AS, ASB, ASD...) but I think it is fair to say that a good part of messerschmitts built in the first half of 1943 where equipped with the DB 605 D, due to the fact that the early G6 was similar with the serial G5 (who was his contemporary and had been built with the DB 605 D). So I guess that the G6 truly had a more powerful engine than the G2, especially counting the water-methanol device which was surely useful when fighting the faster Yaks and Las. But hey if i´m wrong please correct me.

Sure GazzaMataz, most of the Luftwaffe aces were bf 109 pilots (Hartmann, Barkhorn, Rall). Their respect and admiration towards the bf 109 was so great, that they even preferred the bf to the fw 190, which is generally considered a much better fighter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the typical G-6 of 1943 (came in service around february 1943) had a DB605A , similar engine as the G-2................
the MW50 system was by far not in widespread use in 1943 !

as many 109 version are already in in the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
editing (not making new planes) the performances of the G-6Late to a higher boost version (aka 1,42 ATA), and making the G-6/AS to a "real" early44 plane without MW50 would have been nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ........... but most propably will stay just a dream http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

and not to forget, having a second look after the ingame performance difference between the G-2 and G-6 !
but the last is an already very dead horse, since some years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Xiolablu3
05-14-2007, 06:41 AM
I am quite sure that 'normal' 109G6's didnt have MW50.

There were around 600-700 planes produced in the 109G6A/S MW50 mould if IRC.

Around 10,000 normal 109G6's wihtout MW50 I think.

Kurfurst will tell us properly if he turns up.

Kurfurst__
05-14-2007, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by JG4_Helofly:
Kurfrst should know what the main difference was between the G2 and G6. I know that the G5 was nearly the same aircraft than the G2, they just put bigger weels on it and a new com equipment.
The G6 hab a little more drag and weight but not much. In game there is a huge difference in weight and perfromance.

Indeed the differences between the G-2 and G-6 are very slight.

Basically :

- 13mm HMG instead of 7,92mm MGs. That translates to bulges, 40 kg extra weight, and 9 km/h loss of speed.
- different radio set (VHF intead of HF, but that's actually already there on the G-4)
- larger main wheels and tailwheel. Because of this, the latter is is non-retractable.

In truth this is not strictly a difference between G-6 and G-2, but a later addition to 109Gs in spring 1943. Meaning, late prod G-2s had non-retractable tailwheel as well, or were retrofitted with. The t/w costs -12 km/h. We have however the early G-2 in the game with the retractable tailwheel.

What I am trying to say, the main changes from G-2 to G-4 is only the new VHF radio, and from G-4 to G-6 is only the 13mm machineguns added. Nothing else that's subtype specific, all other stuff was applied/introduced for the entire G series, if they were still in service.

Historically, about half of the 109Gs in mid-1943 were G-2s and performance-wise identical G-4s (plus some identical, but pressurized G-1s and G-3s, they could be also fitted with GM-1 for high alt work), and the other half was made up by G-6s which appeared in February 1943. Slowly the G-6s become prominent, practically replaced by the G-14 (= G6 + MW-50 + latest gimnicks) on the production lines in July 1944.

It had the same engine, no methanol boost initially, that only came in early 1944. The engine was cleared for higher rating (1.42ata) for 1475 PS output vs. earlier 1310 PS, in either June 1943 or October 1943 (I suspect the June order was recalled, and finally established after testings in Sept), which would effect all planes of course. Perhaps this should be shown for G-6 Late...?

In performance terms, the G-6 is some 60 kg heavier, and 20/30 km/h slower at SL/rated alt.

However, I don't think it was that much of a worser turner than the G-2 as in the sim. The historical G-2 was measured at 20 secs for 360, 22 secs with gunpods which would add just as much drag and much more weight (+215kg) than the G-6's HMGs... yet the G-6 turns in some 23 secs in the sim. My gut feeling is that 21 would be probably much more close to reality, I doubt drag counts that much at low speed, because the weight diffo is rather marginal (G-6 with 80% fuel weights exactly the same as a fully loaded G-2...).

Kurfurst__
05-14-2007, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
A better performing 109G6 would be a great addition to the sim, as for game balanced Map makers have to use the earlier 109G2 in order to compete with teh Spit IX's,La5's and P51B's.

This is unhistorical, the Bf109G6 was the most numerous BF109 and I cant think that it was quite as uncompetetive as the Bf109G6 we have in the sim right now.

Indeed, in fact the historcal opponents of our 'vanila' G-6 were Yak-9s, La-5s, Fs, and FNs and Spit Vs and VLFs, (which were the dominant Mark for the most part of 1943, esp in the MTO. I think something like two Squadrons, ie. some 30 odd IXLF were around in mid-1943..). P-51B...? Like, a single unit started to fly them in the last two weeks of 1943...?! It's more like a contemporariy of the G-6/AS in terms of introduction..


The gap between the Bf109G2 and the Bf109G6 is too large IMO.

Indeed. We have an early G-2 at 1.3ata and 660 km/h tops, and an early G-6 at 1.3ata at 630 km/h tops.
IOW, the best G-2 and the worst G-6. In reality, it was more like the G-2 modified, gradually becoming a G-6, and then was soon given better canopy and more power to compensate, so it indeed evolved, not degenerated like here.. by the time the Erla canopy was fitted 1.42ata was cleared anyway, so IMHO the G-6Late should definietely get more power. 10% extra power is much more noticable than 10 km/h top speed loss that occurs at high speed anyway..

Abbuzze
05-14-2007, 11:10 AM
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g-16476-b.html

Maybe this is interesting 109 with tropical air intake at sealevel.
G2 cowling - 306 mph (492 km/h)
G6 cowling - 300 mph (483 km/h) (with bulges)
G6AS cowl. - 304 mph (489 km/h)

Condition
of Aircraft:
Production 109 G with tropical equipment (sand filter at the intake), single-wire antenna, under-wing armament, outside air thermometer on the left wing, radiator flap indicator, main-wheel covers with indicator, non retractable tail wheel, normal camouflage finish, 2 ETC 50 under the fuselage arranged one behind the other.

Completion
of the Test: Test flight with combat power n=2600 U/min; p=1,3 ata radiator flaps completely closed. No weapons were installed in the fuselage during the test fights

GazzaMataz
05-15-2007, 06:59 AM
One thing that I am still slightly curious about is the MW50 function. Now have I got this right: I need to lower the throttle setting to below 100%, then I can turn MW50 on and crank the throttle back to 110% until the engine starts to cook again?

Kurfurst__
05-15-2007, 07:09 AM
Just engage MW50 once (say at takeoff) and throttle back when it gets hot w/o switching it off.

As a matter of fact, I tend to think the MW-50 button is fairly redundant. IRL it's only function was perhaps to disable the boost for new engines durin the 'run-in' period, and, on the 109K, since the MW-50 tank could be also used as an aux. fuel tank, to switch between MW-50 mode and 'fuel' mode.

vsk2006
05-15-2007, 10:41 AM
All right. I stand corrected in what refers to the engines subject. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

Great clarification Kurfurst. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Still I am a bit confused with what I've read about the G-5: "The Bf-109 G-5 introduced the DB 605D engine with MW-50 water-methanol power-boosting (making possible a maximum power of 1343 kW/1800hp for combat bursts)....Therefore the Bf 109 G-5 introduced a basic armament of a single hub-firing 30 mm MK 108 cannon and two nose-mounted MG 131's, whose larger breech blocks were covered by the distinctive beulen."

The truth is that, by this book, the G-5 sounds a bit ahead of its time (DB 605D, MW-50, MK 108).
The way I see it this can only be explained in two ways: 1) the number sequence of the Gustav versions (1,2,3,4..) is not chronological or 2) the book really really made a mess in this subject.
Off course my vote goes to 2, but I can´t avoid being a little hesitant, due to the fact that this one the most accurate and exhaustive books I've found on this area. By the way it is called "Warplanes of the Luftwaffe: Combat aircraft of Hitler's Luftwaffe" by David Donald.

So can anyone dissolve this contradiction? (Kurfurst?)

Xiolablu3
05-15-2007, 11:01 AM
The G5 was possibly a low numbers built test bed? A bit like the Spitfire XII?

Just a guess, Kurfurst will clarify.

JG52Karaya-X
05-15-2007, 11:23 AM
Isnt the G5 just a pressurized cockpit G6 for high alts use (with possibility of mounting a GM1 tank), so kind of like the G1 G2 double...

A lot of books state that with the G5/6 the MW50 system and a DB605 engine with 1800hp at takeoff were introduced, but this is only half-right, it wasnt until early '44 that this setup finally found use (eventually leading to the G14 for sake of standardization). Most or all Gustavs from Mid-42 to Early-44 had the vanilla DB605A-1

Abbuzze
05-15-2007, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
Isnt the G5 just a pressurized cockpit G6 for high alts use (with possibility of mounting a GM1 tank), so kind of like the G1 G2 double...

A lot of books state that with the G5/6 the MW50 system and a DB605 engine with 1800hp at takeoff were introduced, but this is only half-right, it wasnt until early '44 that this setup finally found use (eventually leading to the G14 for sake of standardization). Most or all Gustavs from Mid-42 to Early-44 had the vanilla DB605A-1

You are right with the G5 and the MW50 in the G6.
The Number of real G6 with MW50 was limited, the G14 which is just a standardized G6 as a kind of "we take the best of all we tried out" got this system.

Kurfurst__
05-15-2007, 11:52 AM
Odd numbered Gustavs are with pressurized cocpits, while even numbered variants are common fighters without pressurized cocpits built in larger numbers for ordinary roles. Pressurized cocpit is rather important for a high alt fighter since the pilot otherwise can barely bear high altitudes physically.. something that is often neglected with some so-called 'high altitude fighters'..

G-1 and G-3 are just pressurized cocpit variants of the standard G-2 and G-4. They were built in small numbers. (ca 170 G-1 and 50 G-6 iirc) as opposed to G-2/G-4. G-1 and G-3 have a number of small, built-in oxygen-like spherical bottles in right wing that can be used to store GM-1. Ie. they all have GM-1 system, but it's filled when needed. G-2 (nd G-1) has HF FuG 7 radio set, while G-4 (and G-3) and all later have VHF FuG 16 radio set with much longer range (something like 80 km vs 240 km).

There were also lightened variants from which armor was removed, indeed half of the G-1s were built as such. They were meant to be interceptors of unarmed recces.

It's a bit like the Spit MkV vs Mk VI, or Mk VII vs. Mk VIII. One is pressurized, the other is not, pressurized variants being produced in far lower numbers given their special role.

GM-1 is pretty scary stuff since it adds +300 HP to output ca 2 km above the rated altitude, and this means the G-1 when using GM-1 actually beats even the 109K at high altitude, and in ceiling. GM-1 however is not an instant on device, it needs ca. 6 seconds to take effect, and overall can be used to something like 20 minutes.

G-5 is again just a pressurized variant of the G-6, but I believe it doesn't have GM-1 built in. I
G-5/U2 and G-6/U2 are factory conversions, and have GM-1, however it's a different setup - a single big 115 liter large insulated tank behind the pilot. Some 500 or so G-5s were built.

Now, this /U2 subvariant was very handy in 1944 when MW-50 was introduced, since the tank and piping was already there... so change the injection nozzle and voila, you can have MW-50 instead. Indeed the first MW-50 109Gs were conversions from the /U2 variant. The main difference to the G-14 is that the G-14 is forcing MW-50 from the rear MW tank to the supercharger by using compressed air tapped from the supercharger and led back via pipes, while the G-6/U2 conversions used compressed air tapped from onboard oxygen bottles.

And yes, all these variants have the same engine, DB 605A-1, publication that say otherwise are wrong.
MW-50 being introduced in spring 1944 as it appears (first accounts from late March 1944), and this changed the DB 605A-1 designation to DB 605AM.

There's also the less known G-8, which was a armed tactical recce, based on the G-6 but with cameras and methanol boost. I think the former designation was G-6/R2...?

The G-10 is a ******* aircraft, a G-6 airframe with many of the K-4's internals (engine, generator etc., basically.

The G-12 is a two-seater based on the G-6.

The G-14 is basically a G-6, with all the latest stuff, and most importantly, MW-50 being standard factory fitting.

Hope this helps. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
05-15-2007, 12:35 PM
Its interesting to hear about these other types,

I tend to know a lot about the versions we have in game, but not very much about many of the other versions of WW2 planes.

FOr example I wouldnt have a clue what a Bf109G8 was going to be or was?

Same with a FW190A7 or a Spitfire Mk IV or Mk VI.

Olegs sim has been an excellent education tool for me on WW2 planes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Also this forum!

Vike
05-15-2007, 05:08 PM
Thanks for those detailed infos Kurfurst. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

vsk2006
05-16-2007, 03:28 AM
It sure kelped. You really are a great source of knowledge on the bf 109. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
As a profound admirer of the bf myself I guess I'll be visiting your site more often from now on.

Thanks again Kurfurst.