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View Full Version : I'd rather have Macchi's



pdog1
02-11-2006, 12:14 AM
Be AI if they have horrible FMs like this.
I really hate to make this kind of thread but i cannot sit here and be silent about this.
Only the 205 has any crediblity because its heavier and has cannons. You can park your self behind a Hurricane and blaze away all day with 2x12.7mm mg and nothing will happen. That is if you can even manage that feat with all the wobbling and unstableness of the FM... a quite uncharacteristic trait of the Macchi.
You're better off flying a Stuka to shoot down hurricanes and spitfires.

Stigler_9_JG52
02-11-2006, 12:44 AM
You wouldn't have that problem in Target:Tobruk (http://targettobruk.twsim.net/). Well, maybe you might; you can't expect twin SAFAT armed guns to blast whatever's in front of them in a quick squirt. Unless you get lucky, and land an explosive shell in a fuel tank, you better count on getting a good, bitter, sustained 2- to 3-second burst into the wingroots or the canopy.

You're pissing into the wind here. They don't care about realism, just purty, shiny graphics.

I tried the new patch tonight, and I have to admit, it was fun; I gave a pretty good account of myself. Only died twice: once on a stupid collision that was my fault, and once with 3 or 4 planes ********ing me. Then I reeled off 5 in a row without loss, including two Spits. I'll take that.

But, some of the same old problems are still there:

1) Zeros snapping around like a FW190 missing a stabilizer. Sorry, but that plane did NOT flop around it's nose-tail axis and "try" to spin during a stall turn. And I noticed planes having problems with torque with throttle dialed WAY off.

2) THE STIFFNESS: We all know about the 109.

3) Cannon overpowered: across the board. Now all of them seem nuclear tipped.

4) AI GUNNERS: now the worst feature EVER in this sim. Jeeeeeez, they can take out your engine block and blast your gunsight out of the way while the plane they're in does planform breakturns and BARREL ROLLS. I distinctly remembered hearing several impacts as the plane was inverted and rolling. This is just laughable. Reminder to self: just don't bother going after anything with a tail gun. You can't win. Either you have to jink so wildly that you can't get a shot yourself, or you'll just get totally destroyed by a single flex gun in less than 3 seconds.

Didn't try any of the new planes yet. Killed one Mossie, craven runbomber that it is.

pdog1
02-11-2006, 12:48 AM
LOL the mossie DM is a joke, all a 109 has to do is look at it and it just blows up.

leitmotiv
02-11-2006, 02:51 AM
I was just about to post a note complimenting all concerned on the Macchis until I saw both of the above. I found the Macchi 200 to be a sportsman's mount. Not a quick roll but maneuvers like a thoroughbred. Two heavy machine guns do not guarantee instant demolition of Hurricanes I or II at a distance, but radiator hits take some of the ***** out of them until you can get close enough for a point-blank shot, which ought to be curtains. Point-of-fact, the Macchi 200 wasn't exactly a world-beater. The Hurricane II can run rings around it, as it should with that Merlin XX. The 202 is marvelous but undergunned 'til it received the wing 20s. I have had AI MC202s (with only two heavy MGs) crush my murderous Spit VC enough times to make me wary of them. The new tracer modeling is FANTASTIC. WWII gun camera footage comes alive! I really like your Italians and am looking forward to exploring the capabilities of them. Right now the maligned MC200 is my favorite mount. I have tried Targetware several times and found it dreary and uninteresting. I have never had oscillation troubles with any of the Zeros. The Maddox Zero is light as a feather and completely well-behaved. I have never experienced stiffness in any of the 109s except at very high speeds in the late models. As for bomber gunners, I thought they were overly lethal because they spoiled my fun. When I recalled the accounts of what happens to fighters who try to run the gauntlet of even light machine gun fire, I accepted the model. As all the top fighter arms knew, the "high side attack" was the only way to go after a bomber and live, or a head-on attack. I have been able to duel it out with a Blenheim I turret gunner or He111H-2's top gunner in an I-16, but this is not the way to a long life. Rolling is not what challenges gunners---a high deflection approach is what makes their work almost impossible.

Feathered_IV
02-11-2006, 04:15 AM
I was just about to post a note complimenting all concerned on the Macchis until I saw both of the above. I found the Macchi 200 to be a sportsman's mount. Not a quick roll but maneuvers like a thoroughbred. Two heavy machine guns do not guarantee instant demolition of Hurricanes I or II at a distance, but radiator hits take some of the ***** out of them until you can get close enough for a point-blank shot, which ought to be curtains. Point-of-fact, the Macchi 200 wasn't exactly a world-beater. The Hurricane II can run rings around it, as it should with that Merlin XX. The 202 is marvelous but undergunned 'til it received the wing 20s. I have had AI MC202s (with only two heavy MGs) crush my murderous Spit VC enough times to make me wary of them. The new tracer modeling is FANTASTIC. WWII gun camera footage comes alive! I really like your Italians and am looking forward to exploring the capabilities of them. Right now the maligned MC200 is my favorite mount. I have tried Targetware several times and found it dreary and uninteresting. I have never had oscillation troubles with any of the Zeros. The Maddox Zero is light as a feather and completely well-behaved. I have never experienced stiffness in any of the 109s except at very high speeds in the late models. As for bomber gunners, I thought they were overly lethal because they spoiled my fun. When I recalled the accounts of what happens to fighters who try to run the gauntlet of even light machine gun fire, I accepted the model. As all the top fighter arms knew, the "high side attack" was the only way to go after a bomber and live, or a head-on attack. I have been able to duel it out with a Blenheim I turret gunner or He111H-2's top gunner in an I-16, but this is not the way to a long life. Rolling is not what challenges gunners---a high deflection approach is what makes their work almost impossible.

That about sums up how I feel too. Nicely put http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Cossack13
02-11-2006, 04:34 AM
Some one should take a rolled-up newspaper to that yappin' pdog! I think he's been huffin' nitrous in the ambulance again.

leitmotiv
02-11-2006, 07:13 AM
P.S. In almost all cases, I've found, the letality of guns depends on getting so close you can see the mud on his tailwheel---as Hartmann preferred. This, of course, can make for some really hairy collision possibilities, especially if the schmuck gets clever and chops his throttle. Even the pathetic Ki43-Ia can tear up a Hurricane if he hammers him point-blank. Personally, I prefer the Soviet fighter 37mm---high velocity, big shell, rapid fire, long range = cooked goose 109s and 190s.

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 08:21 AM
i havent flown much but i was pretty sure the macchi's would turn out average, at best, just like g50 and cr42

HotelBushranger
02-11-2006, 08:21 AM
Well, I felt the MC 202/205 was a bit iffy, until earlier tonight. The 205 is a team plane. Have people working together, and you'll survive. It also needs alt. If you get caught low on takeoff, games over mate.

Just keep in mind, just because you've have or two bad flights, don't blame the plane for not living up to your expectations. Adapt to it, get some flight time and survive. As for me, I'd say the 205 is one of my fave planes, along with P-40M and Ki-61 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 08:21 AM
oh yeah and ive often had zeros flip and tip stall in turns..

Tooz_69GIAP
02-11-2006, 08:35 AM
Well, I reckon the MC.205 V III is pretty darned nice! About as manouvreable as an early 109G, great guns, and is fairly fast. I've been smashing hurries, spits, p-38's, p-40's, and others in bits with this aircraft!

TX-Gunslinger
02-11-2006, 08:43 AM
My new favortie plane is the 205 's.

1. I think more manueverable than G6
2. Climb is great
3. Tracers are the best looking in the sim.
4. I'm flamin Yaks and La-5's with it ok.
5. Digital ammo counters.
6. Awesome cockpits.

Yeah, I love it. Have'nt got enough hours in it yet, though. Maybe my opinion will change.

S~

Enthor1
02-11-2006, 08:58 AM
Well pdog1, I cannot hit much with them but the platform is very stable here, I see none of the "wobbling and unstableness" you refer to.

I realize you have wanted them for awhile now, which means you have not had them around to learn how they fly.

Now that you have them why not take some time, exercise some patience and learn how to use them.

As to hitting power, guess why the British put 8 to 12 of those 303s in Hurricanes??

Stigler, you are mellowing, aside from the ubiquitous reference to Target:Whatever and your self back patting, you actually admitted you had some fun with FB....gotta mark the calender for this one!

Well, maybe not, you quickly reverted to your old self in the rest of your reply.

leitmotiv
02-11-2006, 09:23 AM
I fancy the MC205, too---great acceleration. It eats Spit VCs like air, and terrorizes Spit VIIIs.

Stigler_9_JG52
02-11-2006, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I was just about to post a note complimenting all concerned on the Macchis until I saw both of the above. I found the Macchi 200 to be a sportsman's mount. Not a quick roll but maneuvers like a thoroughbred. Two heavy machine guns do not guarantee instant demolition of Hurricanes I or II at a distance, but radiator hits take some of the ***** out of them until you can get close enough for a point-blank shot, which ought to be curtains. Point-of-fact, the Macchi 200 wasn't exactly a world-beater. The Hurricane II can run rings around it, as it should with that Merlin XX. The 202 is marvelous but undergunned 'til it received the wing 20s. I have had AI MC202s (with only two heavy MGs) crush my murderous Spit VC enough times to make me wary of them. The new tracer modeling is FANTASTIC. WWII gun camera footage comes alive! I really like your Italians and am looking forward to exploring the capabilities of them. Right now the maligned MC200 is my favorite mount. I have tried Targetware several times and found it dreary and uninteresting. I have never had oscillation troubles with any of the Zeros. The Maddox Zero is light as a feather and completely well-behaved. I have never experienced stiffness in any of the 109s except at very high speeds in the late models. As for bomber gunners, I thought they were overly lethal because they spoiled my fun. When I recalled the accounts of what happens to fighters who try to run the gauntlet of even light machine gun fire, I accepted the model. As all the top fighter arms knew, the "high side attack" was the only way to go after a bomber and live, or a head-on attack. I have been able to duel it out with a Blenheim I turret gunner or He111H-2's top gunner in an I-16, but this is not the way to a long life. Rolling is not what challenges gunners---a high deflection approach is what makes their work almost impossible.

You're pretty on the mark about the MC200. What i can't stand about it is that "Roman Centurion helmet" cockpit bracing design. Boy, it hampers visibility and creates disorientation for me! And with no artificial horizon to help you out, yikes!!! Where's the barf bag!!

You'll find your description of those planes spot on for what you'll get in Target:Tobruk. (http://targettobruk.twsim.net/) I don't know what you mean about "dreary and uninteresting, though. Just having more realistic engine management (crucial in the desert environment), fuel management and real 1:1 scale maps makes it superior to anything that passes for the Med in here. I suggest you spend more than 5 minutes with it, and that you don't just make a snap decision based on graphics alone. You'll find Targetware vastly superior as a "flight sim", although maybe not [yet] as a "game".

And you're way wrong about gunners. I do agree that if you make things easy for them, and fly right into the gunner's cone of fire without any angular problems, you're gonna get nailed, sure. But that's if the plane the gunner's in is flying straight and level. No way he can have ANY accuracy when the pilot's jinking and rolling and pulling Gs. The gunner has to contend with somebody else controlling the plane, the swivel mount of the gun he's using, the recoil (as opposed to a fighter pilot controlling forward, fixed guns and having a "feel" for where the plane is going). Anybody who's seen or experienced "dead-eye AI otto" can see in just a few encounters that it's pure fantasy how accurate they are.

EJGrOst_Caspar
02-11-2006, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by TX-Gunslinger:
My new favortie plane is the 205 's.

1. I think more manueverable than G6
2. Climb is great
3. Tracers are the best looking in the sim.
4. I'm flamin Yaks and La-5's with it ok.
5. Digital ammo counters.
6. Awesome cockpits.



S~

Add
7. A second reticle for nights (or for your personel taste)

Its switchable with the same key you set for enabling the sunglasses on 109/190s. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

EDIT: and if somebody wonders.. the large stick with numbers that comes from the panel on right side wall ... is the fuel ammount counter.

AKA_TAGERT
02-11-2006, 10:52 AM
So what part of Ivan asking you all to at least give it a week did you not understand?

PS Stig, love your avaitor text.. says it all! Agreed 100%!

BfHeFwMe
02-11-2006, 11:03 AM
Oleg! Thanks for implimenting a real Stab trim system in this bird. Bodes great things for BOB, this is absolutely great.

If you guys haven't figured it out yet you have a completely new trim system in this series of birds, might be why your having such troubles with them. To prove it, select any plane and trim the elevator, watch the stick move as you trim elevator. Now try it in one of these new Italian birds, zero movement. That means no elevator trim tab messing with elevator stick forces.

Also look at the small amount of range on your trim wheel and where it's located, it's a primary flight control, and go easy on it, but you must constantly be using it in combat.

It'll give you huge advantages at certain ranges of the flight envelope, and hurt you at others, you'll have to figure it out.

Again, way to go Oleg, gigantic step with fidelity. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

leitmotiv
02-11-2006, 01:07 PM
I was unaware of the of the new trim system. Used elevator trim on Ki61, IL-2, and a few other of the old models and the sticks did not move. Stick did not move when I did same with new Italians.

I think the "wobble" some notice is the new flight model introduced a short time ago which is more demanding than the previous one.

I tried Targetware's Pacific module about a year ago long enough to find myself pining for something more finished.

BirdieNum-nums
02-13-2006, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
You wouldn't have that problem in Target:Tobruk (http://targettobruk.twsim.net/). Well, maybe you might; you can't expect twin SAFAT armed guns to blast whatever's in front of them in a quick squirt. Unless you get lucky, and land an explosive shell in a fuel tank, you better count on getting a good, bitter, sustained 2- to 3-second burst into the wingroots or the canopy.

You're pissing into the wind here. They don't care about realism, just purty, shiny graphics.

I tried the new patch tonight, and I have to admit, it was fun; I gave a pretty good account of myself. Only died twice: once on a stupid collision that was my fault, and once with 3 or 4 planes ********ing me. Then I reeled off 5 in a row without loss, including two Spits. I'll take that.

But, some of the same old problems are still there:

1) Zeros snapping around like a FW190 missing a stabilizer. Sorry, but that plane did NOT flop around it's nose-tail axis and "try" to spin during a stall turn. And I noticed planes having problems with torque with throttle dialed WAY off.

2) THE STIFFNESS: We all know about the 109.

3) Cannon overpowered: across the board. Now all of them seem nuclear tipped.

4) AI GUNNERS: now the worst feature EVER in this sim. Jeeeeeez, they can take out your engine block and blast your gunsight out of the way while the plane they're in does planform breakturns and BARREL ROLLS. I distinctly remembered hearing several impacts as the plane was inverted and rolling. This is just laughable. Reminder to self: just don't bother going after anything with a tail gun. You can't win. Either you have to jink so wildly that you can't get a shot yourself, or you'll just get totally destroyed by a single flex gun in less than 3 seconds.

Didn't try any of the new planes yet. Killed one Mossie, craven runbomber that it is.

______________________________________________

Stigler, I don't get you. You're always going on about Targetware and how it's better than IL2/FB/AEP/PF. I mean ALWAYS going on about it. Last week, you still had the phrase 'IL2, best flight sim ever under your avatar'. Now it's gone? Which is it, you're not sure? You change your mind every week?

While there's no doubt you have a broad knowledge of aircraft and aeronautics (more than I), your constant slamming of the Maddox series is a turn-off. Trust me, we all know the game's deficiencies but we also praise its benefits. You, I'm not sure. The thing is, you obviously play it a hell of a lot. Seriously, do you really like Targetware more?? What, cuz, you can you fly an Avenger? Or some other types that aren't represented in the Maddox series?
I played it, and I wasn't impressed. I'd definitely rather play the former as it's far superior in overall 'feel' and look.

Look, I'm all for constructive criticism, and I will bolster your comments (in past posts) that we should never settle, but frankly in this case, it ain't settling, it's just plain common sense: to date, nothing can compare to this series in regards to realism, detail, immersion, and sheer number of represented aircraft.

Small and nagging details aside, IL2/FB/AEP/PF is through and through the best WW2 sim on the market. Period. Case closed, court dismissed.

Cheers,
Birdie Num-nums a.k.a. TheJabberwocky