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View Full Version : For the first time in any retail combat flight simulation



AFJ_Locust
09-28-2004, 06:57 PM
massive live engagements for up to 128 players in dogfight mode.

That sounds interesting but the lag now can be preaty bad @ times how are they going to pull of 128 in 1 server ?

Some special netcode ?

AFJ_Locust
09-28-2004, 06:57 PM
massive live engagements for up to 128 players in dogfight mode.

That sounds interesting but the lag now can be preaty bad @ times how are they going to pull of 128 in 1 server ?

Some special netcode ?

GAU-8
09-29-2004, 02:19 AM
they probably mean "128 players packed in really close quarters with the latest diamond chipped laser encoded CPU computers with 8 gig of ram, and no more than a max of 3 feet of fiber optic connections each person person"....

look for the asterisk that says.."not suitable for internet play with a ping over/above 02"

BSS_Goat
09-29-2004, 05:35 AM
I think they call that "creative marketing" in the business (consumers call it lying)

-lynx-
09-29-2004, 07:19 AM
Jeepers - what are you on about? Back in 1997 Warbirds had in excess of 200 players on a server every night, scenarios pulled even higher numbers. All on dial-up of varying quality. Did some people warp? Sure. Did it make it unplayable? Of course not. All your fancy graphics happen on you PC and all that is transmitted to/from server is a small data packet... BTW - pings under 500ms (yes, that's half a second!) are perfectly flyable as long as the connection is solid...

Biloxi72
09-29-2004, 07:29 AM
Novalogic can have up to 150 guys playing Joint Operations and there is a ton more goin on then if FB.

x6BL_Brando
09-29-2004, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Jeepers - what are you on about? Back in 1997 Warbirds had in excess of 200 players on a server every night, scenarios pulled even higher numbers. All on dial-up of varying quality. Did some people warp? Sure. Did it make it unplayable? Of course not. All your fancy graphics happen on you PC and all that is transmitted to/from server is a small data packet... BTW - pings under 500ms (yes, that's half a second!) are perfectly flyable as long as the connection is solid... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely a hint of a rosy tint to your spectacles lynx? IIRC, WB and DoA could get quite unplayable from a combat POV unless you happened to live in the States. The code was very poor as far as head-on's were concerned and the scenery was p1ss-poor. Not to mention that development went out of the window when iEntertainment bought out iMagic. And isn't it right that any player could only see the 31 planes nearest to him? Any others were only visible as they came within that envelope. That might sound picky, but what would happen if you had a 36-strong bomber group? With escorts, say a couple of dozen? Then you throw in a couple of dozen attackers and surely it's gonna go out of wack PDQ?
I wonder if the claimed 128 slots will be subject to the same constraints?

I had fun in WB/DoA in the 90's...but it's nowhere near as good as FB has become...despite the new playdough terrain and all the rest. I'd suggest that there is far more going on per packet in FB than there ever was or could be in Warbirds

&lt;brando&gt;

RevvinUK
09-29-2004, 10:26 AM
Warbirds was very playable for me in the UK but don't expect to see 200+ in GMT timezone or US for that matter unless you count the 100 AI they have in there that gets counted in the player count http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif GMT see's about 20-40 GMT timezones.

Anyway I digress back in the days when there were 250+ and it was a struggle to get a slot Warbirds was still very playable for me in the UK as was Aces High with 450+ back last year and WWII Online with hundreds playing each night.

On a smaller scale Joint Ops has 150 players in a genre (FPS) where fast reflexes and fast movement is required. All these games use a certain ammount of 'prediction code' or 'latency control' Planes flight paths are easier to predict and this is what those MMOG sims do to ensure less warping. Why is it so hard to believe the dev team have tweaked the net code to allow 128 players when the sims mentioned above have handled more for years. The internet has changed a lot over the last few years when Oleg had to code for a larger ammount of dial-up users and who knows how much the code changed from IL-2 to IL-2:FB when IL-2:FB started out as an add-on pack. Pacific Fighters might have given them the chance to go back and re-do part of the netcode, perhaps even try a few things out for BoB or maybe Pacific Fighters uses net code that was designed for BoB.

The MMOG games use a visible plane limit (used to be 32 in Warbirds and now 64) but even with 64 players your frontend is still using draw distances to help render the graphics rendering planes that are closest in detail and using 'dots' to render the planes furthest away. Ask yourself how often in a 32 player game do you get all 32 players in visible distance? All the rendering of graphics is done on the users FE you're only sending packets back and fore to the server for the planes that matter ie those in visible dot range.

AFJ_Locust
09-29-2004, 12:30 PM
Its interesting to dream about such large games Ill belive it when I see it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hopefully thatll be soon !

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Bearcat99
09-29-2004, 07:11 PM
Maybe what that means is what it says.... perhaps 1C has found out how to optimized the netcode so that you get almost no lag.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I can dream cant I??!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Korolov
09-29-2004, 07:23 PM
Or Ubi has found a way to optimize their wallet... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Lateralus_14
09-29-2004, 07:35 PM
MMOGs require monthly fees to cover the enormous costs of upkeep for many powerful server machines that all help run one room. Not to mention the costs of a ridiculously fat data pipe.

AEP/PF are not MMOGs, they are hosted on privately -owned servers with much smaller bandwidths. To assume that a game like PF should be able to handle the same number of players as MMOGs is just absurd.

x6BL_Brando
09-30-2004, 04:59 AM
Thanks Lateralus, for explaining so clearly what I was trying to say &lt;S&gt; It is about people being able to host on their own machines, rather than depending on some very powerful equipment somewhere else over which they have no control.
OK, I'm sure that it will call for a kick-a$$ piece of kit to host 128 pilots - but it will still be a PC, and no-one will have to pay a monthly fee to join in. Even the cheapest ticket into WB was around ten dollars a month, or $120 a year - somewhere around the cost of all the IL2xxx CD's so far - and many people paid more than that IIRC. So comments about Ubi lining their wallet need to be viewed by that comparison I think. We might actually be grateful that we're NOT tied into a pay-for-play scenario with Ubi, rather than knocking what seems like a quantum advance in the game!

609IAP_Recon
09-30-2004, 05:06 AM
your ignoring what your client can handle.

The server is the least of the concern here (assuming it's the dedicated with no GUI).

jimmie_T
09-30-2004, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Recon:
your ignoring what your client can handle.

The server is the least of the concern here (assuming it's the dedicated with no GUI). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
exactly.

-lynx-
09-30-2004, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>OK, I'm sure that it will call for a kick-a$$ piece of kit to host 128 pilots - but it will still be a PC, and no-one will have to pay a monthly fee to join in. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't you just love this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I wish everything was free and good and all. Real life, however, shows that you get more or less what you pay for (iEN being a notable exception to this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) PF is not even in stores yet and we are already having a comfortable little b*tch about what it might or might not deliver http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

128 players on a PC? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-30-2004, 06:30 AM
I'll wait and see. I've always been an optimist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
09-30-2004, 06:44 AM
I don't care if we actually reach 128players and have it stable. What matters to me is if thats the top limit and there have been improvements to the code...then surely we'll be seeing more 64 player servers that run well too.

Thats still double what we get now.

RevvinUK
09-30-2004, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lateralus_14:
MMOGs require monthly fees to cover the enormous costs of upkeep for many powerful server machines that all help run one room. Not to mention the costs of a ridiculously fat data pipe.

AEP/PF are not MMOGs, they are hosted on privately -owned servers with much smaller bandwidths. To assume that a game like PF should be able to handle the same number of players as MMOGs is just absurd. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you over-estimate the power needed to run these servers and the bandwidth. Those costs are a fraction of what the subscription revenue pays for. Those MMOG developers don't have a big publisher like Ubisoft behind them funding the project. Those MMOG developers have to pay the wages of their programmers, designers, 3d artist, 2d artists, office space rental, support staff costs, bandwidth for downloads of their product, web-site design and upkeep. iEN recently limited download of their Warbirds game to subscribers only to save on bandwidth costs.

Web based dedicated servers are now easily in the realm on the average user. I've got a dedicated server on a 100mb internal connection in a data centre that sits on a Gigabit connection that costs me not much more than when I had a few MMOG subscriptions running. These types of servers are becomming more affordable all the time so it's not just some guy hosting from home maxing out his cable connection.