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comanderFritz
08-15-2006, 11:49 AM
alright so i test all my battleships in the game with one on one vs the best of the enemy
(tirpitz/bismark)

i have just now started tested the new ships i have on file

so i tested iowa vs tirpitz and got a very unexpected result

Battle: Iowa vs Tirpitz
Length: 2 salvos
Outcome:Iowa sinks after 2 salvos
distance bettween ships: 2 km
Winner: KMS tirpitz

Pictures
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/248/tirpitzoffsideio2.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2259/iowaji6.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/851/lastmomentsiz0.jpg
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/6978/iowasinkinda3.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7669/afterbattleuq5.jpg
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3331/battelshipjpgformbt9.jpg

Celeon999
08-15-2006, 11:58 AM
JAWOHL !


The Führer will be pleased to hear this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


Is this party music i hear coming from Doenitz office ??

"Ceeeeeeleebrate good times COME ON !!!............"

Vamandrac_Steam
08-15-2006, 12:13 PM
Wow 2 salvos was all it took?! Im shocked that the Iowa could not take more than that!

CapLindemann
08-15-2006, 12:21 PM
WTF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif, where does one get the Iowa, seeing I know the ship like the back of my hand because I did restoration on the Mo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

comanderFritz
08-15-2006, 12:22 PM
well i ran it twice more just to make sure it was not a one out of a 100 type thing

the outcome of both battles was........
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/7121/iowasinkingqc8.jpg

its part of u-boat war ace mod

Vamandrac_Steam
08-15-2006, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by CapLindemann:
WTF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif, where does one get the Iowa, seeing I know the ship like the back of my hand because I did restoration on the Mo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

You can find it here:

http://fallout.immortal-forces.net/SH3/IOWA_CAMO44.rar

tuddley3
08-15-2006, 03:54 PM
I like how you took the screenie and placed it in your Sig. I like how the shock wave appears on the water. that should have been entered in the Screenshot Comp.

comanderFritz
08-15-2006, 04:43 PM
the shockwave and the one in my sig are edited pictures therefore dont qualify. but the origanal i could still enter but which one should i replace it with? and it dont have the shockwave

comanderFritz
08-16-2006, 12:38 PM
i found and downloaded a russian battleship and hevy cruiser but cant get them to work with out the game thinking there has been a error what is worng?

TASKFORCE1x1
08-16-2006, 04:38 PM
Good screenshots! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

blastomatic1759
08-16-2006, 05:29 PM
its hard to beat German engineering , period.

Danelov
08-17-2006, 10:55 AM
Umm,really far of the reality.Wargame tests made in the War proved the Iowa class can take the Bismarck class very easily out of combat.And that´s natural.Both ships are not of the same generation and the Iowas were builded with in mind the combat with the 406mm gun fast battleships and not the inferior 381mm of the relative slow Bismarck class.The especulated risky enemy of the Iowas were the Yamatos class with his battery of 460mm guns and incredible armour and in minor degree the Littorio class of the Italian Regia Marina.
Certainly German ships were good builded but there are a systematic problem of construction in the stern structure in the German yards.
Several ships had loss the stern after torpedo attacks(Lutzow, Prinz Eugen,etc)and in Bismarck that help and accelerated his destruction .This torpedo launched by the Swordifish, fatal for the Bismarck destiny, was maybe only a problem for a Richelieu or Littorio class in the same situation. Already , today we know that, the stern broke off Bismarck when the ship sink and near of the surface.Other example, the Graf Spee; the battlership sink in the shallow River Plate in one piece, Minus his stern!!!!!

comanderFritz
08-17-2006, 02:33 PM
As for the stern thing ive never herd that ill look into it. But that torp from the Swordfish hit the propellers and rudders, jamming them (could have happened to any ship) with out that lucky Swordfish shot the Bismarck would have made it to St. Nazair (would have easily got there due to the fact its top speed, after being hit by earlier battle was still 28 kts). When she would have arrived she would have trapped herself there and most likely would have then met the same fate as the Tirpitz€s.

Personally I think the Tirpitz€s and Iowa are pretty well matched the same, with iowa alltile better.
Iowa€s top speed was 33 kts, the Tirpitz€s was 32 kts so id says there both fast.
The armor on the Iowa is 307mm at the strongest and 38mm-161mm deck armor. The Tirpitz's armor at the strongest was 320 mm with general deck armor of 50-120mm.
even the main guns are close to the same. Tirpitz's 8x15in (380 mm) 47 cal vs. Iowa€s 9x16 (420mm) in 50 cal. but due to her thicker armor I believe, if they would have met. The Iowa would have only had about a 55% chance of sinking her. The Iowa would also have been heavily damaged and put out of action for some time.

here is link to Tirpitz's GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/tirpitz_menu.html

and according to Collins ww2/jane's

KMS BISMARK
protection: 320mm, decks 50mm and 80mm with 100mm glacis, bulkheads 220mm, turrets 360mm, barbetts 100mm.
Bismarck€s guns
8x15in 47 calibre, 12x6in 55 calibre, 16x4.1in 65 calibre, 16x37mm,8x21in torpedo tubes<> 4 aircraft

Iowa's armor
310mm, bulkhead 280mm, decks 161mm, barbettes 439mm, turrets 469mm
Iowa's guns
9x15in 50 caliber, 20x5in 39 caliber, 56-80x40mm, 49-60x20mm<>4 aircraft

and if the H-class would have been let built and let lose on the world.........well thats another topic

Danelov
08-17-2006, 05:33 PM
Yes,about the Bismarck we can say that was not a lucky ship.
-Wolfarth was there with the U-556 without torpedos with the Ark Royal unescorted as target in optimal position to launch his attack.
-The jamming of the rudders were at the more worst possible position, make turning the ship directed to aproaching Admiral Tovey fleet.
-The weather was terrible and the wind push the ship in the heading of the British Fleet.
-The catapult was out of service(a possible near hit of Prince of Wales)and all posibilities of launching the Arado Ar-196 hidro to save the War Diary ,ordered by Lutjens were inutil.Finally the plane was dropped of the catapult to the sea.
-After his hit in the hull by one of the shells of the Prince Of Wales the loss of fuel was quite great and impossible to repair with the materials aboard, forcing Lutjens to take the heading to Sant Nazaire.
-The history of the second funnel is quite triste. THis one was builded with canvas and wood to camoufled the ship like a British Battleship.But the order to place this one at place was never gived, and little time after the Bismarck was discovered by the PBY Catalina.And worst he open open fire with the Flak guns delating his nationality.We know very good of the aborted attack of the Swordfish in the Cruiser Sheffield taked as the Bismarck.With this second dummy funnel in place and a little luck was possible to confund the identification of the Catalina and maybe also the second fatal strike of the Swordfish,after his first strike mistake identification.
-The AA(or Flak)crews of the Bismarck were incapable of drop enough his 20mm to shot the low aproaching Swordfish.Already, no British planes were shot-down by the Bismarck AA, only damage planes in Victorious or Ark Royal.
-The weather was so terrible impeding the possibilities of place explosives to clean the rudders for controlling after the ship with the propellers.The stern structure damaged by the torpedo was flooded,very difficult of acces by the waves and furious sea.The sugestions of Junack of drop a float anchor or to place the door hangar to serve as auxiliar rudder were discarted after the severe weather conditions.
-The Bismarck had big working problems with his rangefinder radar.
-The choice of Sant Nazaire by Lutjens was the worst one.Ideal was to utilise the same route by the Denmark Straits with his fog to return to Norway or Germany.His decission was taked after the inspection of the fuel bunkers and the limited posibilite of pumping the fuel of the damaged tanks.
-The ship was near but still in the extreme range of operations of the Luftwaffe bombers.

About the hipotetic survey of the Bismarck after his arrival at Sant Nazaire. Yes, certainly like his brothers,Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the Bismarck was the future target of many RAF raids and possible he take part also with the two Battlecruisers and the Prinz Eugen in the "Cerberus" operation.

Returning to Iowa-Tirpitz, yes, but each Admiral or commanding officer aboard deploy his ship in the best of his conditions ,in the most favorable enviroment. And in the Iowa that mean,long range salvos of more of 26.000 yards directed by radar with near vertical trayectories of impact.We can not dude of the efficience of naval american radars in the middle of 1944.And here, the Tirpirz ,certainly was heavy handicaped.

Regards

comanderFritz
08-17-2006, 06:26 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

at close range however (norweigen coast) the tirpitz would have been a rival

AO1_AW_SW_USN
08-17-2006, 07:10 PM
I have to agree with Danelov. You also must keep in mind that the Iowa class Battlewagons had radar aided Range Finders for their main batteries.

Hypothetically, given the lack of Naval technology given to the German Kreigsmarine the results would have been disastrous. Even if the Bismark survived her encounter with the British Fleet and had a duel with an Iowa class BB... the Iowa would have out ranged her and would have placed more ordnance on target than the Bismark could have done. The same goes for the Tripitz. The equivalent would have been a open sight rifle carrying solider vs. a scoped sniper.

phlip1979
08-17-2006, 11:55 PM
The tirpitz and the iowa are nowher near equal. the iowa had a broadside weight of 24,300 pounds (2700 per shell) Tirpitz had a broadside weight of 16,000 pounds (2000 pounds per shell) Plus like other said the iowas had radar aided fire control that would give a definate advantage especialy at night.

phlip1979
08-18-2006, 12:19 AM
Also the tirpitz was capable of 30knots not 32

comanderFritz
08-18-2006, 01:46 PM
the bismark was capable of 30 kts, the tirpitz 32. also the radar would have made extream deffrrance on long range but like your scoped rifle comparison at short range it wouldnt have been much defferant

i would like to have a link to the brodside weight source of information

phlip1979
08-18-2006, 04:39 PM
the shp of the tipritz was only 10k more than bismarck that wont get ya 2 knots difference. And yes i will get ya link

phlip1979
08-18-2006, 04:40 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_class_battleship#Main_battery
there ya go

phlip1979
08-18-2006, 05:12 PM
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/technicallayout/generaldetails.html
and here is a link about the top speed of tirpitz

AO1_AW_SW_USN
08-18-2006, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by comanderFritz:
the bismark was capable of 30 kts, the tirpitz 32. also the radar would have made extream deffrrance on long range but like your scoped rifle comparison at short range it wouldnt have been much defferant

i would like to have a link to the brodside weight source of information


My friend, that's why the sniper has a scope... so that his target doesn't close the gap. He can be picked off from a distance.

If there ever was an encounter, the Bismark nor the Tripitz could not close the gap in enough time. The Iowa Class BB's had sufficient speed and had the superior range over her foes. Hypothethically, the German BB's would have been picked up by either aircraft from a supporting fleet carrier or by seabourne radar before the the Germans would even know they are there.

With the combined speed, range and supporting cast, the Iowa Class would have the upper hand. It could make contact with the German BB's at or near BVR (Beyond Visual Range) and could "Cross the T" in sufficient time(Crossing the "T" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_T)). These factors would have put the Bismark or Tripitz through hell and back.

comanderFritz
08-18-2006, 09:41 PM
alright http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

ive alwasy known there 2 defferent generations of ships the german modern generation was never built (H-class) i still love both ship and felt like a good argument

the american targeting system is much better i never said it wasnt. therefor the pround tirpitz would have been sunk. this whole topic started because i posted what happened in the game wich is not correct because the tirpitz won of couse i did do the battle in 2km range i shall test them at 15 km next time see what happenes and ill post results.

AO1_AW_SW_USN
08-18-2006, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by comanderFritz:
alright http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

ive alwasy known there 2 defferent generations of ships the german modern generation was never built (H-class) i still love both ship and felt like a good argument

the american targeting system is much better i never said it wasnt. therefor the pround tirpitz would have been sunk. this whole topic started because i posted what happened in the game wich is not correct because the tirpitz won of couse i did do the battle in 2km range i shall test them at 15 km next time see what happenes and ill post results.


I didn't mean to sound like I was debating... I'm just defending my Father's old ship. He served onboard the USS Wisconson from November 1978-June 1983. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The in-game results would be intresting if set at 15km. Unless the Iowa is modled correctly with BVR radar capabilities, it will depend on the skill of both crews set in the SH3 Mission Editor... and who ever draws first blood, of course.

FI-Aflak
08-19-2006, 10:04 AM
Fire control on the Iowa class battleships was miles ahead of anything else floating at the time. In a real engagement the tirpitz would have gone down before it managed to put shells anywhere near the Iowa class ship. The US ships didn't have the size and power of some of their foreign rivals, but they were much more sophisticated.

In addition damage control systems were more advanced and I'd assume the Iowa could take heavier damage without loosing effectiveness.

All this said, put it in a broadside situation and it's at the disadvantage - it was never supposed to fight like that. It was built fast and smart so that it would be able to dictate the terms of the engagements and throw shells accurately at an enemy that was outranged.

Ali_109
08-19-2006, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Celeon999:
JAWOHL !


The Führer will be pleased to hear this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


Is this party music i hear coming from Doenitz office ??

"Ceeeeeeleebrate good times COME ON !!!............"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifOh yes, I'm Dancin!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif