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View Full Version : Think I found something! Can someone check? *SPOILERS*



Gyro458
12-10-2010, 03:09 PM
At the end of my second playthrough, after the lift from Santa Maria Arocueli, I was ath the code-door and I decided to use Eagle Vision just before the cutscene started. There was a red symbol on it, and I'm curious to know what it is - the cutscene started before I got a good look. But I managed to memorise the general look od it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/luciferownsme/eaglevision.jpg
I found this pic on Kaxen's site - the symbol is above Desmond's right shoulder - the fingerprint, circly one.

itsamea-mario
12-10-2010, 03:12 PM
you mean the jacapo de pazzi mission? if so then its a glyph, if not then i dont't know what your on about.

LightRey
12-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Oh! That reminds me. I encountered something similar in one of the Romulus Lairs. It was the one with the big cross you need to climb (not the one you need to knock over). In the room with the cross, there's some of the text that 16 wrote on the ground if you look in Eagle Vision. Any ideas what this means?

Gyro458
12-10-2010, 03:18 PM
I mean end of Brotherhood. The door where Desmond had to say seventy-two.

rocketxsurgeon
12-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Its the fact that's its two fingerprints crossing. Fingerprints are a recognition of someone's identity, so its like a joining together of two identities, hybrids.

Basically, the symbol is there to signify its intended for a certain person- Desmond.

LightRey
12-10-2010, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by rocketxsurgeon:
Its the fact that's its two fingerprints crossing. Fingerprints are a recognition of someone's identity, so its like a joining together of two identities, hybrids.

Basically, the symbol is there to signify its intended for a certain person- Desmond.
I still wanna know about what I found. It doesn't seem to make sense. Was it put there by 16? If so, why? and if not, wtf!?

TwentyGlyphs
12-10-2010, 04:22 PM
That's a plot of something called the Lorenz Attractor. It's an equation that's related to predicting the weather, and also led to the concept of the Butterfly Effect. It deals with ideas of Chaos Theory, and how one small change can make the outcome completely different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_attractor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

My theory, based on many new theories floating around, is that Desmond will end up going back in time to Eden and find Eve. Somehow, one small change will drastically affect the future.

LightRey
12-10-2010, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
That's a plot of something called the Lorenz Attractor. It's an equation that's related to predicting the weather, and also led to the concept of the Butterfly Effect. It deals with ideas of Chaos Theory, and how one small change can make the outcome completely different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_attractor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

My theory, based on many new theories floating around, is that Desmond will end up going back in time to Eden and find Eve. Somehow, one small change will drastically affect the future.
That could be true. There is a PoE that affects spacetime (described in the letter to Vidic in AC1 about all the PoE's).

RzaRecta357
12-10-2010, 10:18 PM
I think that the Shroud will suck the life of lucy and stick her in Desmonds head ala Perotto Cauldran and Giovanni Borgia.

The kid lives with something called Consus talking to him in his head, after the shroud sucked his fathers life and gave it to him before he was murdered by his own underling assassins.

The_red_egg1
12-11-2010, 09:15 AM
Guys, the two swirls that look like a Butterfly arnt fingerprints. They show the symmetry of the Earth. It says in the last Cluster, in Brotherhood.

PhiIs1618033
12-11-2010, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by The_red_egg1:
Guys, the two swirls that look like a Butterfly arnt fingerprints. They show the symmetry of the Earth. It says in the last Cluster, in Brotherhood.
It's a typical mapping of a Lorenz Attractor, hardly symmetrical.

TwentyGlyphs
12-11-2010, 01:19 PM
The Cluster 10 puzzle shows the Lorenz Attractor on top of a picture of Earth, showing the Middle East and Africa. The quote says "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?" I think the symmetry may be related to another message that was on the wall at the end of AC1. It says 22:13, which refers to Revelation 22:13: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." There's also a picture of the Omega symbol, and perhaps the Alpha symbol, but it's hard to make out. All this coupled with the theory that the person who said "Eve" in The Truth video from AC2 is actually Desmond behind Adam and Eve leads me to think Desmond is going to be important at the end of this era and at the beginning, in Eden. This would also explain why the First Civilization knows so much about Desmond, although Juno also said they can see past time.

F4H bandicoot
12-11-2010, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
The Cluster 10 puzzle shows the Lorenz Attractor on top of a picture of Earth, showing the Middle East and Africa. The quote says "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?" I think the symmetry may be related to another message that was on the wall at the end of AC1. It says 22:13, which refers to Revelation 22:13: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." There's also a picture of the Omega symbol, and perhaps the Alpha symbol, but it's hard to make out. All this coupled with the theory that the person who said "Eve" in The Truth video from AC2 is actually Desmond behind Adam and Eve leads me to think Desmond is going to be important at the end of this era and at the beginning, in Eden. This would also explain why the First Civilization knows so much about Desmond, although Juno also said they can see past time.
DEsmond couldnt be behind adam and eve, becuse when the camera pans out at the end its just adam and eve.

LightRey
12-11-2010, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
The Cluster 10 puzzle shows the Lorenz Attractor on top of a picture of Earth, showing the Middle East and Africa. The quote says "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?" I think the symmetry may be related to another message that was on the wall at the end of AC1. It says 22:13, which refers to Revelation 22:13: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." There's also a picture of the Omega symbol, and perhaps the Alpha symbol, but it's hard to make out. All this coupled with the theory that the person who said "Eve" in The Truth video from AC2 is actually Desmond behind Adam and Eve leads me to think Desmond is going to be important at the end of this era and at the beginning, in Eden. This would also explain why the First Civilization knows so much about Desmond, although Juno also said they can see past time.
This post doesn't make sense to me at all. Please explain.

AmbiguousGold
12-30-2010, 10:08 PM
Ok, here is the Lorenz Attractor in lay-terms...
We use differential equations to model dynamic system behavior and ultimately, solutions. The Lorenz Attractor is the resulting "picture" of long-term behavior when graphing the Lorenz equations. The crux is that we have a chaotic system, and thus no way of predicting outcome or behavior of the system.
Now in regards to its projection on the earth, I take it to mean the earth itself is a chaotic system, and we have no way of knowing what is to come next.

The chaos idea is seen in the same cluster through the "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?". The lines are taken from "The Tyger" by William Blake. The poem has two main themes that relate to the games overarching themes. The first, and most obvious is the question of the existence of evil. Did God, essentially "the lamb" create the tyger as well? Or was it an evil being - Satan, the enemy of God just as the tyger is the enemy of the lamb. Secondly we have the mystery surround creation and the creator - again we see more questions than answers, chaos surrounding the world and the divine.

Finally, the chaos of the chess game - completely disregarding the rules and the idea that we must play on the board. Not too much of a stretch to tie that shift in with the assassin's motto, "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" The cluster tells us to throw our paradigms out the window, get ready for the chaos to come in the next game, and enjoy the hell out of it.

Avl521
12-30-2010, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by AmbiguousGold:
Ok, here is the Lorenz Attractor in lay-terms...
We use differential equations to model dynamic system behavior and ultimately, solutions. The Lorenz Attractor is the resulting "picture" of long-term behavior when graphing the Lorenz equations. The crux is that we have a chaotic system, and thus no way of predicting outcome or behavior of the system.
Now in regards to its projection on the earth, I take it to mean the earth itself is a chaotic system, and we have no way of knowing what is to come next.

The chaos idea is seen in the same cluster through the "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?". The lines are taken from "The Tyger" by William Blake. The poem has two main themes that relate to the games overarching themes. The first, and most obvious is the question of the existence of evil. Did God, essentially "the lamb" create the tyger as well? Or was it an evil being - Satan, the enemy of God just as the tyger is the enemy of the lamb. Secondly we have the mystery surround creation and the creator - again we see more questions than answers, chaos surrounding the world and the divine.

Finally, the chaos of the chess game - completely disregarding the rules and the idea that we must play on the board. Not too much of a stretch to tie that shift in with the assassin's motto, "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" The cluster tells us to throw our paradigms out the window, get ready for the chaos to come in the next game, and enjoy the hell out of it.

That sir, was VERY interesting.

And welcome to the forums http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ZCherub
12-30-2010, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Avl521:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AmbiguousGold:
Ok, here is the Lorenz Attractor in lay-terms...
We use differential equations to model dynamic system behavior and ultimately, solutions. The Lorenz Attractor is the resulting "picture" of long-term behavior when graphing the Lorenz equations. The crux is that we have a chaotic system, and thus no way of predicting outcome or behavior of the system.
Now in regards to its projection on the earth, I take it to mean the earth itself is a chaotic system, and we have no way of knowing what is to come next.

The chaos idea is seen in the same cluster through the "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?". The lines are taken from "The Tyger" by William Blake. The poem has two main themes that relate to the games overarching themes. The first, and most obvious is the question of the existence of evil. Did God, essentially "the lamb" create the tyger as well? Or was it an evil being - Satan, the enemy of God just as the tyger is the enemy of the lamb. Secondly we have the mystery surround creation and the creator - again we see more questions than answers, chaos surrounding the world and the divine.

Finally, the chaos of the chess game - completely disregarding the rules and the idea that we must play on the board. Not too much of a stretch to tie that shift in with the assassin's motto, "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" The cluster tells us to throw our paradigms out the window, get ready for the chaos to come in the next game, and enjoy the hell out of it.

That sir, was VERY interesting.

And welcome to the forums http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> 2nd. Out of all the similar threads, this was one of the few interesting & genuinely insightful posts in this category.

Darzak
12-31-2010, 03:37 AM
OMG YOU SAW IT 2??? I DID ALSO!!!!!! It creeped me out. But i think the symbol repreasents the butterfly effect i believe.

jzsnyder
12-31-2010, 06:31 PM
the hebrew on the wall is just gibberish by the way...

Gyro458
12-31-2010, 08:04 PM
I just wanted someone who is around there in the game to check and take a cellphone pic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Natethegrea201
12-31-2010, 08:30 PM
Now my theory is that when 16 was hacking the Animus at Abstergo to put the glyphs in maybe he went through more memories of Ezio and found that he put the apple in the vault and saw the symbol on the entrance and he knew that Juno was evil and drew the symbol at Abstergo for Desmond to see and when he got to the vault he would see it and not go in. Also in his message "She can't be trusted" also maybe referring to Juno.

erudit0
01-01-2011, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by AmbiguousGold:
Ok, here is the Lorenz Attractor in lay-terms...
We use differential equations to model dynamic system behavior and ultimately, solutions. The Lorenz Attractor is the resulting "picture" of long-term behavior when graphing the Lorenz equations. The crux is that we have a chaotic system, and thus no way of predicting outcome or behavior of the system.
Now in regards to its projection on the earth, I take it to mean the earth itself is a chaotic system, and we have no way of knowing what is to come next.

The chaos idea is seen in the same cluster through the "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?". The lines are taken from "The Tyger" by William Blake. The poem has two main themes that relate to the games overarching themes. The first, and most obvious is the question of the existence of evil. Did God, essentially "the lamb" create the tyger as well? Or was it an evil being - Satan, the enemy of God just as the tyger is the enemy of the lamb. Secondly we have the mystery surround creation and the creator - again we see more questions than answers, chaos surrounding the world and the divine.

Finally, the chaos of the chess game - completely disregarding the rules and the idea that we must play on the board. Not too much of a stretch to tie that shift in with the assassin's motto, "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" The cluster tells us to throw our paradigms out the window, get ready for the chaos to come in the next game, and enjoy the hell out of it.

Truly brilliant. Very stochastic. However, we can predict outcomes by using logistic models. For our purpose it will not work, as you already mentioned a chaotic system, but even in chaotic and entropic systems, tools can be used.

Great reasoning through the tyger. We indeed are left with more questions. One thing we can infer, if we come from TWCB then they are as ugly and puzzled too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

In a more serious note I am left wondering if there are any references to the "tao te ching" so far. The ever-apparent duality of Juno's words and even the duality in "the tyger" and the "alpha and the omega" quote, make me think of taoism. The chaos of ying-yang and the unifying force of the tao. I need to check my tao te ching.

Hope to see more of your reasoning in this forum as I'm also new to it.

AmbiguousGold
01-01-2011, 05:59 PM
You're right, with the logistic model we can get close to predicting behavioral patterns. I guess the big that I was trying to get across I didn't even type - the smallest change to the variables has HUGE impacts on the resulting formation, leading to talk of the butterfly effect. Don't want to get to absorbed by the math as much as why the symbol is there for purposes of the game. I haven't considered too much of the Juno and (other Goddess from AC2, don't remember who she was off the top of my head) connection.

If you think back to the end of AC1 when everyone was talking about where the story would unfold next, I don't remember anyone guessing Renaissance Italy - maybe some said it would be cool, but as far as in game clues to that setting I really don't remember anything. Please speak up if you noticed something; in retrospect some things may pop up.

So while it is awesome to toss around ideas about where the next one will be set and what the plot is, I really don't think we'll be able to figure it out. I just like focusing on what we find in the actual game as trying to understand EVERYTHING about it. Piecing together those old phone records, following the story of the hints in the chess game, the hidden gibberish in the pictures where we were looking for the Assassin or Templar symbol - you get the idea. The game developers must be having a blast with it cause there are so many subplots and twists that pretty much everything is up for debate.

Sadly I'm not up to speed on my ancient Chinese texts haha! So I really don't have much input there, but like you said, the duality in yin-yang, alpha-omega, and "The Tyger" all fall in line pretty nicely with the chaos themes they have going. Getting so deeply into Taoism I'm not sure though - seems really far fetched. They are focused primarily on Christianity and conflicts within Christianity, so I don't really see them bringing in another religion/school of thought. Then again, i wouldn't rule out any topic for them to incorporate into AC3.

We still haven't had any story with the Peruvian Nazca Lines that were on the wall in AC1 - so maybe something there would be cool. Who knows!

Off topic: Does anyone know if the "Butterfly Effect" was named so based on the butterfly wing look of the Lorenz Attractor? I mean, it stands for chaos due to tiny changes, so it would make sense. Can anyone verify?

Happy thinking!

TheEverfade
08-06-2011, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
The Cluster 10 puzzle shows the Lorenz Attractor on top of a picture of Earth, showing the Middle East and Africa. The quote says "O brave new world. What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?" I think the symmetry may be related to another message that was on the wall at the end of AC1. It says 22:13, which refers to Revelation 22:13: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." There's also a picture of the Omega symbol, and perhaps the Alpha symbol, but it's hard to make out. All this coupled with the theory that the person who said "Eve" in The Truth video from AC2 is actually Desmond behind Adam and Eve leads me to think Desmond is going to be important at the end of this era and at the beginning, in Eden. This would also explain why the First Civilization knows so much about Desmond, although Juno also said they can see past time.

Hey, only just joined this forum and i couldn't be bothered reading the rest of the comments after this so i dont know if this question has been answered but i've been dying to comment on it! haha. The "What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?" part of the quote is from a poem called 'Tyger Tyger' or something, sorry but im not sure about the poet. However that phrase is referring to how the tiger's stripes have such a fearful and symmetrical quality, I think. Not sure how this will relate to assassin's creed =] Also, the quote "I am the Alpha and the Omega" Refers to Jesus Christ, well, IS Jesus Christ. He is both Alpha and Omega. Hope this has helped you in some way!
Cheers