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blazer-glory
12-30-2005, 12:20 PM
If Im on the tail of a 109 and it goes into one of its steep climbs to escape, whats the best course of action. Should I break,circle and hopefully meet it on its descent?

gx-warspite
12-30-2005, 12:25 PM
If you weren't too far and he went into a steep climb, you should be able to close the distance enough to get within guns range.

If you were far, then turn away and keep an eye on him, because as sure as ****, that 109 is gonna come back to look for you.

danjama
12-30-2005, 01:05 PM
what makes you think he will descend after the climb?

Never assume anything about your enemy, that is a bad mistake.

ploughman
12-30-2005, 01:16 PM
What are you in?

Which 109?

Kuna15
12-30-2005, 01:21 PM
You can't do anything because his machine is faster.
look at it this way; if you do everything perfectly you will get him only if he make a mistake. Otherwise he will escape for sure.

It's kinda you say - I have car that has better cornering capabilities and is capable of 215km/h. My oppo has less responsive car but capable of 230km/h. Now in flat race you are a toast and if your oppo has that in mind he will win.

Anyway climbing (steep or sharp whatever) is usually a mistake. Follow him flying at level alt as you will gain on him quite fast but you'll be below him. It is possible that he will chicken out when he sees that you are gaining on him and make a split S (or perhaps hammerhead attempt & similar unwise move) and that is dream scenario for you you will be on his tail and in firing solution in no time.

AFAIK best escaping route for Bf-109 is steep initial dive (to make as long distance as possible in short ammount of time -- that isn't limited only to Bf-109), than level flight and than steep climb after securing the situation.
If Bf-109 tries steep climb directly from combat it is likely flown by inexperienced flyer and you can afford yourself to follow him otherwise it is not reccomended as he will lure you toward others where you will be cannon fodder.

p1ngu666
12-30-2005, 02:33 PM
hes attempting to get u slow, and perhaps stall out so he can swoop down and kill u, so u must keep speed resonable (330~ kph)

blazer-glory
12-30-2005, 04:10 PM
Arrggh! Too much information! LOL No seriously,thanks guys. I'll bear all that in mind. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

neural_dream
12-30-2005, 04:37 PM
As I'm sure you know it's all a matter of strengths and weaknesses. The 109s generally have better climb, good first turn, not bad sustained turn and great acceleration/deceleration, plus good at BnZ although the controls stiffen quickly when you go fast. In other words, a great all-around plane. What are your plane's strengths? Use them.

ploughman
12-30-2005, 05:09 PM
Yeah, if only he'd tell us. If he's in a Me-163 I'd say follow him up...

neural_dream
12-30-2005, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Yeah, if only he'd tell us. If he's in a Me-163 I'd say follow him up...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

blazer-glory
12-30-2005, 05:28 PM
oops LOL Sorry. As I was bought in to this sim flying russian fighters, they are the ones I tend to fly.

jugent
12-31-2005, 01:23 AM
Dont chase the 109 with a B-25 or a Gladiator if you are dont is closer than 500 m.
It is only the Hurricane, the P40 and the P-47 that is outclimbed by a Me.
The 109 got so much drag that most allied fighters can initially outclimb it.
The spit can do some extreme vertical movements and stay climbing longer and more controlled than any German fighter, if they are at almost the same initial speed.

F19_Ob
12-31-2005, 04:35 AM
As ploughman asked " What are you in? Which 109?"
It makes a lot of difference.

As rule if u see a 109 climb, and u are not 90% sure u can hit him, avoid going after him unless u are in a better plane, or have the energy to climb after him.

What I would do in most allied planes; I-16, Lagg3, La5 (early) spits, yak1b, for example, is to remain level and gather speed so I can choose to climb up to meet the 109 in a headon, or evade him better, or disengage.
Evasion against a BnZ'ing 109 is best on the horisontal, and not in diving. Without energy u are forced to dive to be able to maneuver, and it is this the 109 waits for.
An opponent with energy can make sharp turns on the horisontal too fast for the 109 wich also gets less time to aim since u haven't dived to get energy and thus the separation between u is less.
If the 109 guy is experienced he may use his accelleration in the dive to disengage if u meet him with a horisontal turn, telling him that u are experienced too.

One of the more important things to find out is infact if your opponent is experienced or not. One way of telling is if he continues to climb when u spray after him, then he probably is experienced. He is confident that u will be out of energy in a moment because u expend alot of it by pulling lead for the deflectionshot.
Sometimes though experienced pilots may react with their gut aswell and maneuver when hit.

Flying and acting on instinct is what u do too often when u are inexperienced or tired.
A lot of experienced pilots probably died in the war because they were to tired to think tactically and instead reacted on instinkt only.

a few thoughts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

blazer-glory
12-31-2005, 12:34 PM
Thanks. Interesting stuff. Im still learning myself so this is all an education. When I bought this sim I didnt realize what hard work it would be!
Oh BTW. HAPPY NEW YEAR! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ploughman
12-31-2005, 12:40 PM
Happy New Year mate, have a good one.

LStarosta
12-31-2005, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
Dont chase the 109 with a B-25 or a Gladiator if you are dont is closer than 500 m.
It is only the Hurricane, the P40 and the P-47 that is outclimbed by a Me.
The 109 got so much drag that most allied fighters can initially outclimb it.
The spit can do some extreme vertical movements and stay climbing longer and more controlled than any German fighter, if they are at almost the same initial speed.

OMG STFU and stop trolling everywhere you go! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

blazer-glory
01-01-2006, 06:48 AM
Why do you say that???? (confused)

LStarosta
01-01-2006, 09:06 AM
Jugent always pretends to post somehing useful, but always hides a few whines about how red aircraft are uber and how blue aircraft always get the shaft from Oleg. It's nothing new really.

geetarman
01-01-2006, 09:39 AM
it's hard to talk about absolutes without more info. as a general rule, i try never to allow a bandit to get an alt. advantage on me. if yiu're in a fast plane when the 109 goes up, try for a snap shot if you still have good, high speed. if you miss, keep zooming and attempt to get above him. the 109 will have probably completed his half loop with a half roll and will be below and behind you a bit.

you can then set up for your next step. if you don't follw him up and simply fly straight or begin a gentle horizontal turn, he'll likely be at an alt advantage and you could be in trouble.

Draughluin1
01-01-2006, 05:24 PM
Is largely dependant on the circumstances. I'm assuming your plane is slower and cannot climb with the 109. If you are near, you may be able to close and get guns on him as he climbs. But if he's experienced, he won't allow this. As the earlier post said, he'll get and use the height advantage to come back after you. Will have a crack at you when your not looking, a regular "devils circle". Following him in a long slow climb will probably put you in a more vulnerable position and you just don't know what help his called in or what else is hanging about. Personally, I'd try to disengage, keep the speed up and get some height, as thats the key. Just remember Pokryshkin's advice, "height-speed-manuver-fire". Try not to lose track of him or least get bounced by him. If you can't do this, then you have to lure him into a turn fight you you probably have the advantages. How to do this? No one simple or easy answer to that I'm afraid. You'll have to figure that one out for yourself. Hence the attraction and beauty of this simulation. Hope this helps a little and welcome to the IL2 FB PF community. Enjoy

blazer-glory
01-02-2006, 07:20 AM
Many thanks for all your help. I think my main probably is I dont put enough hours into the sim to get anything out of it, life seems to get in the way. Plus I dont know enough about the aircraft in the game to look for any advantagies/disadvantagies.

neural_dream
01-02-2006, 08:01 AM
I wrote this for people like you and me

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4721047273

han freak solo
01-02-2006, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
what makes you think he will descend after the climb?

Never assume anything about your enemy, that is a bad mistake.

He must be fighting AI. The AI tend to dive after a climb.

I'm finally finishing the El Alamein campaign. The AI Bf-109F4 and G2 are a bit faster than the Spitfire Vb you fly in the second half of the campaign. Catching one requires an altitude advantage, or swinging behind him after he returns towards you. Staying with him requires full throttle and WEP well into the "Overheat" warning for many minutes.

The trick is to break off combat without completely wrecking your engine so you can get home. Some help from your flight is neccessary if you didn't down your quarry.

After this, I finally get to check out the Espagne Campagne. Apparently the BoB campaign is really exceptional as well. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

blazer-glory
01-02-2006, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by neural_dream:
I wrote this for people like you and me

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4721047273

Im already patched up Neural. Just need to patch up my own my flying ability! :s