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View Full Version : The Proper Code of Conduct? Posted 6th pg 7th post



Tuphlandng
10-18-2009, 03:09 AM
The suggestion came to me,in this,thread by squareusr to use the term "Code of Conduct" instead of rules and I think that it is more of the spirit of this thread then my original title so I changed it from Rules of engagement to Code of Conduct. Ether way subject matter has not changed. Thanks

What do you think would be the Proper Code of Conduct for a server that would accommodate the majority?

Now I am referring to everyone,to be fare to the mass of pilots off-liners and on-liners and to the game. I would really like your input. I am not asking about settings but the "Rules of engagement" so that every one that paid there hard earned coin on this game can get the full benefits.

I think that it is a bummer to post a thread about how some servers did this or that and what I have read the reasons for getting kicked are kind of Chicken Poo.

Know this is not supposed to be a gripe thread but I would like to hear about instances that brougt you to your answers.

Here is a quote from a recent thread by


LEBillfish

"We have a rule in the 78th*Sentai our code of conduct VERY strict and above all else what defines us as a regiment.

If you ditch, even at a base, to even botch up a landing....You should instantly "bail out" even if the aircraft is fine (like ran out of fuel with no hits), and if hit by someone else before hand "Salute" them whether it scores a kill for them or not (aircraft just sitting there).

What is done after by that opponent of no consequence (though a waste of bullets to keep shooting a downed aircraft, that their prerogative it of no matter to us).....and the only time we will say something is if someone other then the opponent that forced you down tries strafing the aircraft to steal the kill."

End quote



Makes me want to join there Squad simulated Honor is still Honor. Saluting your opponent was a commonplace during WWII I think we have all heard the story's.

And I was on one server that mentioned the only rule is no *****ing,Thought that was cool so I wont complain when I get shot in the eye although painful I re-spawned and got a new eye along with a shiny new plane that I was immediately re-leaved of.

Ever since I read the "BnZ=Ban" thread I have wanted to ask so there I asked.

Your input is desired.

Thanks
Tuph (pronounce it how you like)

PanzerAce
10-18-2009, 03:22 AM
I think the server side rules that fit most people are:

No strafing except in multi crew planes.
bomb/rocket attacks allowed by anything.
refly whenever you bail/ditch/land.
No TKing.


Anything else is (In my opinion) too subjective to enforce. I've been kicked for 'shoulder shooting' when there was only the target on my screen, and conversely there have been times I've seen people get shot up by their own teammates behind them in the quest for the kill, and no one was kicked.

Kill stealing, while annoying, is pretty much impossible to do anything about in most cases. Also, in most cases, it's unintentional. People firing before they see a plane break apart, or they don't know the pilot is dead, or they're at a bad angle/too far to see the prop isn't moving.

So maybe to deal with that, add "No unsportsmanlike conduct" as well. Beyond that though, I don't think there really is much need for any rules

RSS-Martin
10-18-2009, 03:24 AM
Hmm I would keep rules simple and few. The only two that I would take are no team killing, especially in the spawn area, and no shooting at chutes, thats about it. Everything else can be handeled by the map maker. Although maybe add also proper markings, as it is anoying to see Zeros with German markings, or Fw190s with British markings. But that is almost like fighting windmills... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG52Uther
10-18-2009, 03:29 AM
No TK'ing
No killstealing
No chuteshooting (A lot of people get upset at this)
I see no problem whatsoever in strafing enemy bases (vulching),but when we do it,we tend to go as a team,and hit and run,not hang around shooting everything that spawns.

DKoor
10-18-2009, 03:37 AM
No TK-ing
No killstealing.
Historical markings.
Server restriced loadouts (if neccesary to accomodate history).

Everything else fine by me.

AndyJWest
10-18-2009, 03:38 AM
No strafing except in multi crew planes.
bomb/rocket attacks allowed by anything.
refly whenever you bail/ditch/land.
No TKing.
I'd agree with that, PanzerAce, though maybe the 'no strafing' rule is unnecessary with multiple airfields and a decent amount of flak.

I think a lot of the problem is down to the flawed points system. Perhaps we could ask TD to add an option in the next patch to turn the whole darned thing off. Though as an online noob myself, I must admit I like seeing my points onscreen, on the average dogfight server they are a pretty poor indicator of pilot skill, and in some cases show little more than how long someone is prepared to stay online. On a 'pointless' server arguments about kill stealing and the rest would disappear, and learning good flying skills and tactics should come to the fore. Those obsessed by points can of course fly on servers with them enabled.

na85
10-18-2009, 03:42 AM
Easy answer:

Rules:

1) No TKing
2) Fly with honor/respect (i.e. no trash talk, etc).

Everything else can be solved through map design.

People getting vulched? Bases getting camped? Make sure there is lots of AAA and always have rear bases where it is impractical for vulchers to go, due to the distance behind enemy lines. Additionally, have mission objectives for ground pounders. Noobs and asshats will look to see who's got the most points, and that will be the guy making ground attack runs and returning with like 4000 points in destroyed tanks. Maybe even have an airstart way at the back so that defenders get some extra E to take out any vulchers. As I said before all this bs about "no shooting planes with lights on" or "no attacking enemy bases" is for people who can't handle it (or I suppose for servers with poorly designed maps).

RSS-Martin
10-18-2009, 04:25 AM
TKing is short for team killing, bases getting camped means someone stays circling above a base and takes out what ever spawns there. This is something that should not happen if the maps are made properly and have enough flak for protection same with the "vulching" bit. Proper made bases with enough flak and you have no base perchers and no vultures.

KRISTORF
10-18-2009, 04:50 AM
We in EAF usually go by all of the above posted, but also add

No Shoulder Shooting.

Whirlin_merlin
10-18-2009, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by na85:


People getting vulched? Bases getting camped? Make sure there is lots of AAA and always have rear bases where it is impractical for vulchers to go, due to the distance behind enemy lines.

Unfortunately, Lag issues limmits the AAA and map constraints limit base positioning.

BillSwagger
10-18-2009, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
No TK-ing
No killstealing.
Historical markings.
Server restriced loadouts (if neccesary to accomodate history).

Everything else fine by me.

+1

and i would add:

fly with honor and respect

No shoulder shooting, and cutting in also fall under this rule.
I'm actually less likely to care about shoulder shooting as when someone cuts in front of me blocking my shot. Just don't shoot me while you shoulder shoot.

I think most people respect each other and don't intentionally shoulder shoot but sometimes you have a noob who's just anxious to get a kill.

I seldom salute the enemy when i get shot down, unless its a well deserved victory. You know those battles that go on for 10 or 20 minutes? Getting hit 3 on 1, is not really deserving of my energy to type anything to them. Maybe if i were saluted more often for my victories then it would be something i'd be more inclined to do. I know its common courtesy, and it is good etiquette.

Squads can enforce their own rules, and if i were part of a squad i wouldn't have a problem doing this. I think people who are in squads are a little bit more conscious of other players and really would like to preserve the quality of the game. This includes the attitudes amongst the group of players including your opponents.


bill

Erkki_M
10-18-2009, 11:31 AM
The =PT= squadron now runs a 4.09m full switch server in the Hyperlobby, named Slurpy Soviets. Ip address is 91.121.21.153. The server has pseudohistorical missions with semirealistic distances and LOTS of ground targets to kill. Maps by =PT=Erkki and 13th-Tuplanolla, server by =PT=Falcon.

Current rotation is

Rhubarb
MTO2
Italy43
Ardennes
Kuban
Kiev
Tarawa
TurkeyShoot
Peleliu
Burma

and server switches mission every 60minutes.

RSS-Martin
10-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Hmm sounds interesting, but the 60min bit, not attractive for bombers. As on some maps bombers need more than half the time to just reach the target, let alone getting back.

Erkki_M
10-18-2009, 11:40 AM
Its a compromise.. as is the 30 player limit. Most FR people will simply head to spits vs 109s/zekes/VZ_AH etc. A guy joining when Burma map is on, excepting spits vs 109s action and seeing 120min left will simply leave...

RSS-Martin
10-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Thats the differance between fighter pilots and bomber pilots, bombers take their time. Also fast direct route flying is a sure way to get shot down fast. Yes Zeke vs. Wildcats was a favorite, but since they are going to mods and I prefer 409m its a no go for me there.

Otherwise good servers for the Pacific which are set for 409m and full real are rare.

na85
10-18-2009, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Whirlin_merlin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:


People getting vulched? Bases getting camped? Make sure there is lots of AAA and always have rear bases where it is impractical for vulchers to go, due to the distance behind enemy lines.

Unfortunately, Lag issues limmits the AAA and map constraints limit base positioning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Usually, yes. There's a particular type of AAA, though, that causes very little lag due to its projectiles but is very deadly. I can't remember which one it is... one of the japanese ones maybe?

RSS-Martin
10-18-2009, 12:59 PM
In theory the idea is good to have pilots flying cap, in reality it is hardly done, as one sees time and again. That is why I brought up the topic with the flak.

squareusr
10-18-2009, 03:08 PM
Rules are a two-edged sword. The arguing that starts when rules are broken can very easily become more annoying than the outlawed behaviour itself. I guess that's what lies at the heart of the "no *****ing" rule someone referenced.

And rules will be broken. Not only out of mischievous intent but also out of pure ignorance or incorrect SA and because of lag or other technical troubles. And then there are the secondary violations that come from grief over percieved earlier violations by the other side.

So the first rule of making server rules should be: don't make rules!

Or, more specific, make recommendations, not rules. Make a clear list of what behaviour you don't want to see on your server, but don't call it "rules". Call it "recommendations" or "discouraged behaviour" and make sure that everybody understands that they don't have the right to not become victims of discouraged behaviour. It can happen to them and it is their own bad luck if they cross the path of a perpetrator of discouraged behaviour. You should still make clear that the absence of rules will certainly not keep you from using administrative power against people who don't follow your recommendations on your server.

This, of course, only applies to behaviour inside the simulation-world. Anything outside of the simulation world (what kind of hate language do you not want to see going into the chat bar of your server? what kind of modifications to the game client do you not want to see connected to your server?) should still be defined in the form of traditional, strongly enforced rules.

PS: nobody mentioned the "if you disconnect when you have someone on your six you lose the game" <STRIKE>rule</STRIKE> fact yet?

Stiletto-
10-18-2009, 10:55 PM
I understand why some people don't like to kill chutes but I have never gotten why it is a server rule, it is modelled in the game.

If a a guy is falling gently down to earth on his side of the line that army gets an extra pilot. Now I am not saying I go around chute shooting all the time because that's usually one of the last things on my mind when in a mission, but if the opportunity presents itself and you really don't like the guy and don't care if he gets mad.. Why not? You could help your team win by having 1 pilot alive left when the last one gets shot down in another half an hour. It is dirty, but I think it should be the pilots choice on what kind of pilot he is.

I think I might add, that no intentional ramning is a good one, unless your plan is severly damaged and is going to crash anyways or you fly for the japanese! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEBillfish
10-18-2009, 11:42 PM
A 78th*Sentai "short list".....The full detailed list much more extensive.

We're a relaxed squadron.....You can fly when you choose, what you choose, how you choose, what side you choose, etc.. We as a group are rather easy about most things........Yet upon a very few things, very important things, we are firm.

Names:
Our name policy has changed, in fact, anyone due to that change wishing to change theirs ATM is welcome to. SImply a three letter name, followed by *78th*Sentai......Odd for the norm though, as the way we do it we seem scattered about the "Player Lists" in HyperLobby. When we join a game we all tend to scatter out in the slots both in the ready area and once in the sim itself.

Oddly it works out like the real 78th....Plane first, pilots second (as they shared planes hence such high kill marks, those the plane's not the pilots), and though put into Shotai (3-4), Chutai (3 shotai), and Sentai (3-4 Chutai), they still almost flew as individuals, groups of fighters resembling more swarms of hornets then an organized flight of geese......Yet when we fly we seem to come together, in a way that "our" edge looking all broken, then fighting as a unit.....Yet most of all to the point....Ever notice how few call us by our handle, like for me Ktu?...Most call us Sentai "hey sentai"....and to that end more then any other squadron, the actions of one reflect upon all.

If XXX*78th*Sentai starts team killing, they'll not say "XXX was"....Yet "Sentai was"...So as designed when formed, "Conduct of all was key".

Members:
Not a single person here even those who did ask was accepted into the 78th by their requesting it. Every single one of you was invited. More so, invited by the group as a whole, as a single hard pressed refusal by any and you'd not be reading this. None of you were debated, all proposed to the existing members, yet all being asked as the members had already said yes.

You were brought in for many reasons....Conduct online, teamplay, sportsmanship. If you're lacking in any regard there know you were still asked for the possibilities seen within you.......So though we're a lax group, know our requirements for membership are not. You're here because we saw in your play a quality. Skill, ace, buddies be damned....As you as an individual represent the rest of us everytime you put on your 78th*Sentai uniform, and it's how you play that brought you to our attention. We're not building a squadron to dominate the virtual skies.....We're building a group of friends of which each one of us respects the other.....We're building a group that is of the core people we as individuals want to fly with.

Hard, Fast & Non-negotiable Rules of Conduct:
When under your normal handle (nick) do as you choose. Though it may make some of us sit back, that's your bag, not ours. Yet when using your 78th*Sentai nick, some modes of conduct are NOT up for negotiation or even hedging...To do so consitantly will make the balance of the members question our decision to have you within the group as it DOES reflect upon all of us.

1. Saluting: Salute! S! Well Done! keirei! ichirei! Banzai!, GF, GG whatever....Do it how you wish yet upon a kill be it your own or your opponents you "will" salute. No instantly exiting the server, no debate about "only when they kill me, or only when I do them". In kind "grudgingly" given salutes ( "s", responding to their "Good Fight!" with just an "uh huh" or "yea") and the like not acceptable....No matter what or how 78th members salute.

It's called good sportsmanship.....Win or lose you congratulate your opponent for a good fight be it a good one or not.
Shoot him down, salute..
Get shot down, salute..
Get rammed and killed, salute..
Get strafed/vulched, salute..
Get chute shot, salute..
Ram, strafe, chute shoot or whatever else yourself?...Salute then appologize in the right or not.
etc..

When all the rest frankly don't care about sportsmanship, we will......Don't want to fly under that simple condition? No problem, just don't ever use your 78th*Sentai name. Let us know too so you can be promoted to Shousa.

2. When flying your 78th*Sentai handle we do NOT get into arguments in the game....Save it, salute, leave the game, hammer the crap out of him in page NOT in public chat. There are a lot of *******s quite frankly flying the sim, "Sentai" will not be one of them....If you must, exit, change your nick, then go after them...Yet as 78th we'll hold our tempers.

3. Exiting kills: (leaving the game before the kill is scored knowing you lost).......don't do it.

4. Creative Programming/hacking the sim:...Yes they exist. No, as a member found to be using them while you fly under our nick and we don't want you. Think you can soften them to just give a slight hedge?...Yep, yet guess what, we can still tell.

5. Teamkilling: except as a joke or during a free for all game, not to be done no matter the reason.

6. Cheating the mission/game in any non hack way......Using F2 to chase the enemy down having no idea where they are a good example. In a coop cutting the route to insure no contact as when you don't fly to the mission parameters it cheats everyone, etc..

7. Deliberately flying against the servers rules. Don't do it, makes us all look pathetic.

8. Stealing kills deliberately (carping), sitting out a kill (ditching and waiting for the credit to expire), anything else that generally ****es you and everyone else off........Just don't do it.


Minor Issues, though still important:

A thousand things really, yet in the end a great rule of thumb is if it hacks you off, then it will others even more. Worse still, "not you yet "Sentai" gets the bad rep.
* Try and be a good wingman.....More so a good team player.
* Try to fly the mission as intended. We tend to fly coops, creative routes and personal alterations of the mission (like flying as a fighter when you're supposed to bomb) wrecks the game for all....It cheats your team of the help they need, and cheats the enemy of their fair chance which is what coops are about....An encounter...Not that you think yourself more clever then the next guy.
* Be a generous winner......Also a generous loser. If any of us set our mark by this sim, we need to be devoting our time to therapy, not here. So always try and be a good sport.
* Chute shooting, vulching when not part of the mission, kill stealing, kill denying....Too many things to list, simply try not to do them.

RSS-Martin
10-18-2009, 11:47 PM
I personally don´t like that argument. Someone in a chute is defenceless, thats almost like shooting at refugee trecks, or puting civilians to the wall to be shot. Certainly it was done, but is it neccesary to bring out and show the ugliest sides of war in a game?
I know that when it comes out that certain groups do that, that other squadrons do not wish to fly with these people. In your view they won what?
I would not even consider allowing chute shooting as that is going to heat up tempers, that things can get a bit unpleasant.

As to intentional ramming, that is in this game a silly thing to do, as you gain no points, and like chute shooting it anoyes people very much.

I for myself get rather ****ed off if I manage to bring back a bomber that is heavly damaged has managed to fight off enemy fighters, and then is rammed by someone who is uncapable of shooting the plane down, but is only able to ram.
That is for me a reason to leave, and a reason not to join if that person is seen again on the server.

Maybe one should think about that too, let that go through, and think what kind of people you will have left on the server? As others who dispise this kind of behavor will not join.

LEBillfish
10-19-2009, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:As to intentional ramming, that is in this game a silly thing to do, as you gain no points, and like chute shooting it anoyes people very much.

I for myself get rather ****ed off if I manage to bring back a bomber that is heavly damaged has managed to fight off enemy fighters, and then is rammed by someone who is uncapable of shooting the plane down, but is only able to ram.
That is for me a reason to leave, and a reason not to join if that person is seen again on the server..

Well due to our squadron theme "Taiatari" or body crashing (ramming) is something we often do when flying against heavies (B17/24/29's) over Japan and on rare occassion elsewhere (like werewolf missions if late German, rarely over New Guinea). In kind we try to do it right, IOW, Clip the enemy to bring him down and bail out.....The goal on such missions is not to die like in Kamikaze, yet to make a trade off in aircraft.

However, we ONLY do it if part of the mission theme, just like Kamikaze'ing a ship....If part of the mission, we do it.

That perhaps the point really being discussed here......It's not to fly as this guy did, or that guy, or even how they all did in some cases......It's about flying to the constraints the mission or server designer set down and abiding by his rules.

K2

JtD
10-19-2009, 12:13 AM
make sure that everybody understands that they don't have the right to not become victims of discouraged behaviour.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

A very few things are more annoying than players in an endless argument about who did what wrong and how they suck.

RSS-Martin
10-19-2009, 02:50 AM
Lebillfish if it is stated in a mission that is something else. As to doing that flying German planes, well, that really happend at the very end and only very few times. That is more like looking for a needle in a haystack. What you mean are the so called "Ramjäger" not werewolf missions that is something else. Only the odd thing that I have seen online is that it was usually Allied planes doing the ramming, be it while I was flying Japanese bombers or German bombers. Finding material of allies ramming enemy planes, should take a bit to find if anything at all.

In those cases I always had the feeling the pilot who rammed went by the motto, "well if I can´t shoot him down I will ram him"
In none of the cases that I had did the ramming pilot survive. So in my eyes he was just trying to get peoples tempers up. Not really what I would understand as having fun.
During my time with the KG30 as it exsisted, any squadron doing stuff like that was a no go for future games. Two squadrons I know of, when they where seen showing up on a server members of the KG30 would leave. That all due to chute shooting and ramming.

M_Gunz
10-19-2009, 04:51 AM
Air war over Russia saw more than one pilot ram a bomber to stop an attack that bullets did not. It was known
as taran in Russia. Some survived even multiple tarans in one day and many medals were given for this brave and
heroic act. Should doing so be cause of kick from a historic server?

Remember that these were mostly ever people who were defending their own, not just some little ghit ready to refly ASAP.

IRL these acts were decorated by their own side and become to some extent part of cultural history. There was more than
one thread on exactly this subject back in the times when Oleg did post here, it is not an act of shame to say the least.

Wikipedia link: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramming)


Nine rammings took place on the very first day of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, one within the first hour. At 0425 hours on 22 June 1941, Lieutenant I. I. Ivanov drove his Polikarpov I-16 into the tail of an invading Heinkel He 111. Ivanov didn't survive but was posthumously awarded the gold star, Hero of the Soviet Union.[5] The Soviets eventually developed tactics that gave attacking pilots at least a small chance of survival, including targeting an enemy plane's tail, rudder, and other horizontal control surfaces with their own plane's propeller. A few planes were even equipped with special steel propellers for such attacks. Lieutenant Boris Kobzan survived a record four ramming attacks in the war. Alexander Khlobystov made three. Seventeen other Soviet pilots were credited with two successful ramming attacks. About 200 taran attacks were made by Soviets between the beginning of Operation Barbarossa and the middle of 1943, when enough modern aircraft had been produced to make the tactic obsolete (even if Russian fighter pilots were still trained to perform it). However, Evgeny Stepanov stated in an interview that more than 580 taran attacks were made by VVS pilots in WWII.


On 18 August 1940, RAFVR Sergeant Bruce Hancock of No.6 SFTS from RAF Windrush used his Avro Anson aircraft to ram a Heinkel He.111P; there were no survivors.[6]

On 15 September 1940, Flight Sergeant Ray Holmes of No. 504 Squadron RAF used his Hawker Hurricane to destroy a Dornier Do-17 bomber over London by ramming but at the loss of his own aircraft (and almost his own life) in one of the defining moments of the Battle of Britain.


On November 2, 1940, Greek Air Force pilot Marinos Mitralexis shot down one Italian Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 bomber, then, out of ammunition, brought another down by smashing its rudder with the propeller of his PZL P.24 fighter. Both aircraft were forced into emergency landings, and Mitralexis used the threat of his pistol to take the four-man bomber crew prisoner. Mitralexis was promoted in rank and awarded medals.

This next one I had not before read about. Those men sacrificed themselves to stop superior enemy fighters!


On 6 April 1941, the first day of Invasion of Yugoslavia 36th group of the 5th fighter regiment of the Yugoslav Royal Air Force, equipped with obsolete Hawker Fury biplanes scrambled to defend their airfield, Re˛anova?ka Kosa, from a strafing attack by aprox. 30 Bf-109 and Bf-110s. In the ensuing uneven dogfight at least three Yugoslav pilots: Captain Konstantin Jermakov, Captain Vojislav Popovi? and Lieutenant Milorad Tanasi? rammed a German fighter each with fatal results on both sides


The Japanese also practiced ramming, both by individual initiative and by policy. Individual initiative was involved in the bringing down of a lone B-17 Flying Fortress The Flying Swede on 8 May 1942 by a Nakajima Ki-43 fighter plane. After three of the Japanese fighters had each made two attack passes without decisive results, the bomber's pilot, Major Robert N. Keatts, made for the shelter of a nearby rain squall. Loath to let the bomber escape, Sgt. Tadao Oda executed a head-on ramming attack, known as taiatari (????, tai-atari?, "body strike").[11] Both aircraft were destroyed with no survivors. Sergeant Oda was posthumously promoted to lieutenant for his sacrifice.[12]

Starting in August 1944, several Japanese pilots flying Kawasaki Ki-45 and other fighters engaging B-29 Superfortresses found that ramming the very heavy bomber was a practical tactic.[13] From that experience, in November 1944 a "Special Attack Unit" was formed using Kawasaki Ki-61s that had been stripped of most of their weapons and armor so as to quickly achieve high altitude.[14] Three successful, surviving ramming pilots were the first recipients of the Bukosho, Japan's equivalent to the Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor, an award which had been inaugurated on 7 December 1944 as an Imperial Edict by Emperor Hirohito.[15][16] Membership in the Special Attack Unit was seen as a final assignment; the pilots were expected to perform ramming attacks until death or serious injury stopped their service.


Two rammings (Bulgarian: ????? taran) were performed by Bulgarian fighter pilots defending Sofia against Allied bombers in 1943 and 1944. The first one to do so was poruchik (Senior Lieutenant, posthumously elevated to Captain) Dimitar Spisarevsky on 20 December 1943.


Late in World War II, the Sonderkommando Elbe used ramming to try and regain control of the air. Although some pilots succeeded in destroying bombers, Allied numbers were not significantly reduced.


On May 10, 1945 over Okinawa, Marine Lieutenant Robert R. Klingman and three other pilots of VMF-312 climbed to intercept a Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu ("Nick") twin-engined heavy fighter flying reconnaissance at 25,000 feet (7,600 m), but the "Nick" began climbing higher. Two of the FG-1D Corsairs ceased their pursuit at 36,000 feet (11,000 m), but Marine Captain Kenneth Reusser and his wingman Klingman continued to 38,000 feet (12,000 m), expending most of their .50 caliber ammunition to lighten their aircraft. Reusser scored hits on the "Nick's" port engine, but ran out of ammunition, and was under fire from the Japanese rear gunner. Klingman lined up for a shot at a distance of 50 feet (15 m) when his guns jammed due to the extreme cold. He approached the "Nick" three times to damage it with his propeller, chopping away at his opponent's rudder, rear cockpit, and right stabilizer. The Toryu spun down to 15,000 feet (4,600 m) where its wings came off. Despite missing five inches (13 cm) from the ends of his propeller blades, running out of fuel and having an aircraft dented and punctured by debris and bullet holes, Klingman safely guided his Corsair to a dead-stick landing.[18] He was awarded the Navy Cross.[19]

RSS-Martin
10-19-2009, 05:21 AM
I know that the Russians did do this. But the ones that have rammed me where either sporting British or US markings. Even if the odd time it did happen, to put it so as if this happened on a regular basis does not ring true with me.

Thats almost like the bit about machine gunning survivers in the water from a u-boat. One case is known and that fellow was punished.

Western alleid planes ramming? Over occupied terretory? Where propaganda has the crews worked up what might happen if they are captured? Ramming over the Pacific where chances of finding bailed crews in that wide area of water are slim? Let alone the thoughts the crews had of falling into Japanese hands?
Do you really think that the odd exception to the rule is that changeable?

Of coarse in a game you have a refly button, who cares how often you die, any loony manouver goes.....

Why is it then that on the majority of servers people get really happy when they are rammed?

Now list your odd-ball cases please. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Bearcat99
10-19-2009, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Hmm I would keep rules simple and few. The only two that I would take are no team killing, especially in the spawn area, and no shooting at chutes, thats about it. Everything else can be handeled by the map maker. Although maybe add also proper markings, as it is anoying to see Zeros with German markings, or Fw190s with British markings. But that is almost like fighting windmills... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

+1

M_Gunz
10-19-2009, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Western alleid planes ramming? Over occupied terretory? Where propaganda has the crews worked up what might happen if they are captured? Ramming over the Pacific where chances of finding bailed crews in that wide area of water are slim? Let alone the thoughts the crews had of falling into Japanese hands?

2 British over Britain, 1 was directly over London and there is a marker still
1 US over US-occupied Okinawa and he landed there.

MANY over Russia to save lives in cities targeted for bombing, and Germany, and Japan. It's a matter of Heart.

If you have dweebs ramming just for fun that is another matter but especially against bombers by c.r.@.p fighters
it should be allowed.

What should be done on DF servers is to delay the person ramming from refly for at least 10 minutes.

RSS-Martin
10-19-2009, 07:33 AM
O.k. that would be acceptable, as I always had the feeling those ramming where doing it for fun, as you see it time and again that they where only ramming. 10min delay min. would deal with the fun rammers.

But still I have the opinion compared to the Japanese, western allied rammings where very scarce. Only on servers like Zeke vs. Wildcats at times you had the impression that US planes where the main ones ramming and not the Japanese.

orville07
10-19-2009, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Western alleid planes ramming? Over occupied terretory? Where propaganda has the crews worked up what might happen if they are captured? Ramming over the Pacific where chances of finding bailed crews in that wide area of water are slim? Let alone the thoughts the crews had of falling into Japanese hands?

2 British over Britain, 1 was directly over London and there is a marker still
1 US over US-occupied Okinawa and he landed there.

MANY over Russia to save lives in cities targeted for bombing, and Germany, and Japan. It's a matter of Heart.

If you have dweebs ramming just for fun that is another matter but especially against bombers by c.r.@.p fighters
it should be allowed.

What should be done on DF servers is to delay the person ramming from refly for at least 10 minutes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah Gunz, it certainly did happen. Here is a full account of Sergeant Pilot Ray Holmes's ramming of a Dornier over London, which he believed was attempting to bomb Buckingham palace, being very nearby. I believe the other guy was a Wing Commander, but don't recall the name. Must have taken some balls lol.

RIP Mr Holmes, ~S~

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...es/article538275.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article538275.ece)

RSS-Martin
10-19-2009, 08:12 AM
Well those incedents are just like the German Ramjäger rather rare ones. To take them as a rule that ramming happened in general is a bit far flung? Have a look at some online games, and you think ramming was actually more common with the allies than the Japanese. Or is someone sudjesting that was the case?
If it where so common wonder why the US where then so shocked at the Japanese ramming, that they made sure that during the war no reports of that got out to the public.
Maybe some should think of that before sudjesting that the unusual was common?

orville07
10-19-2009, 08:31 AM
Hi Martin. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you are referring to me, then no.....I am certainly not suggesting it happened often. It was of course very rare with British and US pilots, and certainly a last resort. There were the obvious cultural differences, and we obviously had no "Bushido" code like the Japanese. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you read the account I posted (its a good read) Holmes did so because he had run out of ammunition. I don't think you can disagree that it was incredibly brave.

Just saying that in desperate situations it did happen.....I know of only 2 cases of the RAF doing this, there may be more but I am unaware of them.

Pudfark
10-19-2009, 10:19 AM
Good points all...

To take care of the griping and cussing..why not disable the chat bar?

No Tk allowed

No other rules...and let it all sort itself out..and it will...

Good maps make a difference....

Old Pudfark......

Manu-6S
10-19-2009, 01:03 PM
My Proper Code of Conduct?

Respect above all, don't make what you would not to be made at you... friendship and teamplay with all the other pilots UNTIL they respect me:

1) guys who use trim on slider and make 15G turns in a 109G6 at 600km/h... they lose my respect

2) guys who flame over the chat for kill stealing ALSO AFTER the excuse by the other guy (sometimes me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

3) Headons... in my squad we never do headons (stupid tactic when you can fight using your experience)... so when I guy shot against me in that way I start to see red... I've to shot it down mocking him.

4) Taking a '44 plane then all the other pilots in the dogfight server (usually training server) are flying on '41 planes... > kick without any explanation.

5) They fly spitfire at 1000m and whine on the big bad wulf... on the opposite side if they fly spitfire at 7000m they have all my respect, really

PS: If in the map there is a Spit and 10 hurricanes I hunt only the spit guy... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Manu-6S
10-19-2009, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Tuphlandng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
My Proper Code of Conduct?

Respect above all, don't make what you would not to be made at you... friendship and teamplay with all the other pilots UNTIL they respect me:

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I cant understand your post The respect and Friendship and team play part sure. But the rest ??
And tactic's come with experience! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean that I change my code of conduct if one of the option above happens... I'm the nicest amd more friendly pilot on the server but I go berserk if they don't play in the way I'm used to play.. this is one of the reasons I don't fly anymore on public server.

Pudfark
10-19-2009, 01:22 PM
Tuphlandng,

"Reprimands" ?? Ain't that why we have bullets,bombs and rockets?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously, most of the time I fly with my squad and I fly all the time with my squad tag....
My actions represent my squad at all times on line and in Forums...we don't reprimand ourselves or others...

Accidents in this sim are frequent...along with misjudgement...poor visability and experience levels...

Intentional bad behavior merits a kick or ban. There is no excuse for bad language anywhere.

So bottom line, what you can't convince with bullets, can be done with a kick/ban...

Reprimands are just "spanking" in my opinion...

Pudfark....aka: NGW-Sancho

RSS-Martin
10-19-2009, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Pudfark:
Tuphlandng,

"Reprimands" ?? Ain't that why we have bullets,bombs and rockets?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously, most of the time I fly with my squad and I fly all the time with my squad tag....
My actions represent my squad at all times on line and in Forums...we don't reprimand ourselves or others...

Accidents in this sim are frequent...along with misjudgement...poor visability and experience levels...

Intentional bad behavior merits a kick or ban. There is no excuse for bad language anywhere.

So bottom line, what you can't convince with bullets, can be done with a kick/ban...

Reprimands are just "spanking" in my opinion...

Pudfark....aka: NGW-Sancho

+1


As to the ramming bit, the thing is what is gained by ramming? in most cases both planes and the crews are dead, what is the gain for the rammers team?
Yes I take my time to fly so that I can make a hopefully not predictable route to the target and back again. That means depending on the map one is flying one way + 30mins. Most times I have been ramed shortly before reaching my home base, so that means sometimes almost an hours flying time, maybe having nursed a badly damaged plane home, just to be ramed with both planes destroyed is for me a reason to think if it is worth while to start a second time. If I get shot down well, someone had more luck than me and that is fine, enemy destroyed but no plane lost for the own team. That is ok. But just raming for the fun of it is not exactly a motivation to fly bombers. On certain servers if certain ground targets are not destroyed the map can not be won, so what do you think happens when the bomber pilots think it is not worth while flying?
One could tranfer that tactic to fighters too waiting just out side of an enemy base and any plane trying to land ram out of the air, the effect is the same.

Real fun is it if you are ramed by a friendly plane after such a long flight had that too.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Held-des-Abends.gif
This hero went through a squadron of 10 Ju88s and took out the lead plane. Markings where clearly visable, he must have clearly seen the other planes as he passed really close, just to ram after a 45min flight just short of our airbase. These are people that really raise the fun level.

I hope you understand what I mean now?
Nothing against a fair kill, but just being taken out for the fun of it with no use for any team is just stupid and a sure way to have the bomber pilots leave.

M_Gunz
10-19-2009, 03:21 PM
Back in the 90's I learned that online squads do have exclusive events (ladders and online wars for points) is because
of the juvenile stunts that get pulled when you let unknowns in. The best answer then is to play by invitation only.

Still squadron members do play on open servers and pick up an honorable player here and there by good association,
even the opposition players might get invited. It is well worth putting up with the jerks when you find real friends
**just as in real life** one good friend is worth having to off and on deal with many sh-heads.

Open DF is like a public pool where you swim in some percent water mixed with urine and people jumping on top of people.
IMO in general coop missions are far better than DF.

Badbet2007
10-19-2009, 03:43 PM
What an excellent thread!

Here is the way I like to play and some of my thoughts on the subject.

-Chute shooting. It happens. It bothers quite a few but for some not too much. I guess it depends on the scenario but in a normal DF server it probably shouldn't happen. That being said I will admit to the occasional 'laundry hunting' against someone that has become a complete bother.

-Ramming. I think intentional ramming is the problem. Again, this stuff happens but when it is happening repeatedly it begins to frustrate the other players and you will soon see the mass exodus towards the exit sign.

-Rules vs guidelines. In my squad we use 'guidelines' that give a list of undesired behaviours in the server. In the past we have used hard set rules but that lead to the "I'm kicked but I didn't really break the rules" argument. Caused a lot of ****ing matches. Using guidelines allows us a little more flexibility in the administration of the server. That also adds to our sportsman-like conduct guideline. And it happens both ways. -We have had to reprimand and 'discipline' squad members for not following the expected guidelines as well as other guests. On the whole though we find guidelines to be the route to go due to the flexibility and a little discretion. That however raises to issue of who should have administrative rights to the server. We limit the administrator priviledge to more senior members with a more experienced and hopefully mature attitude towards on-line flying. That's not to say that things sometimes happen that really shouldn't.

-Team killing is definitely not on. Depending on the server software you can limit this.

-Shoulder shooting. Don't like it!! If I am flying on comms with a squad mate as a wingman then OK, but otherwise, back-off!

-Historical markings for sure.

-Vulching and strafing are OK so long as it is stated in the guidelines. If I don't like it I shouldn't join the server.

-Discipline. We try to follow the three strikes and you're out rule. Meaning that the offending player should be warned of the 'offence' at least a few times before the kick or ban comes. In most cases a simple reminder is enough to set things right and usually an apology is forthcoming. There are times though when players are there simply to be disruptive and that is where the discretion and decisions by the admin are required.

-Honour and respect is generally the rule. If you don't like it happening to you, don't do it to them.

One thing no one else has mentioned yet is the use of lights. I know this can open a whole new can of worms as I remember a thread about this a long time ago but it should be mentioned in your code of conduct. Some players feel that the use of lights is a signal of surrender or an acceptance of defeat. In other servers it doesn't matter. It comes down to the honour and respect theme but I would make it clear in the brief which ever way you choose. Historically I don't believe that this has any bearing but rather depends on the individual and the theatre, just my opinion.

Sorry for the long post...gonna have to hold off from the Lakeports before I post.

~S~

na85
10-19-2009, 04:57 PM
Here's what I don't get:

-People who get angry about chute shooting. I mean WHO CARES? The only difference between getting shot in your chute and bailing out is that if you get shot you get 10% of your score, whereas if you bail in friendly territory you get 50%. Does your score mean that much to you?

And re: bomber ramming: If it comes down to me ramming this bomber or him hitting the targets to win the map, you can be damn sure I'll ram him every time.

M_Gunz
10-19-2009, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Tuphlandng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:


And re: bomber ramming: If it comes down to me ramming this bomber or him hitting the targets to win the map, you can be damn sure I'll ram him every time.

I have to agree with the ramming to prevent the bomber from reaching his target. I see little point in ramming after the bomb load has been released

Tuph </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends on how historic you want to be. If they just bombed your Mother-In-Law you might want to wave as they go by?

ElAurens
10-19-2009, 05:46 PM
I will never understand how "killing" a plane/pilot on the ground is "bad" with a machine gun, but "good" with a bomb or rocket?

It's so much easier with bombs and rockets. All you have to do is get close.

Some people have very strange ideas.

M_Gunz
10-19-2009, 07:09 PM
Do you think that if a server did not use the word historic that people would get less upset over rules?

RSS-Martin
10-19-2009, 10:08 PM
Well put it so if a plane is rammed accidently that is not nice but with a "sorry" accepted.
In most times the rammer has desprately tried to shoot the plane down but his skills has not allowed a final hit. I can only speak for what I have seen in the last years and most rammings where on final after the bomb run was already over. That was also the case in that screen shot, target was destroyed squadron was about 5min from home base desending for a landing approach when that "hero" slammed into the lead plane.
The squadron was on a open public server to maybe find new members, but after two such rammings the squadron and also a bunch of good friends who acted as fighter escorts left the server, that was due to one cuckkoo 21 pilots gone. No chance of the remaining pilots of having any success.
I usually keep tracks of every flight just in case something like that happens, so that one has proof.
If a server gets a reputation that a lot of pilots hang around there that take out any plane on any side just for the fun of it, is then avoided.
Otherwise yes many squadrons go on servers that are only accessable via password so that things like that do not happen.
It usually only takes one or two to ruin a game if they are not stopped.

But these are the kind of people even if there are rules, will ignore them. You see them every where now and then, they fly with delibrately wrong markings, use the chatbar for the rudest of language, and do their most to disturb the game flow, either by ramming any plane. Sitting in the spawn in a plane with either rear gunner or bomber and shooting at the spawning planes beside them, that is their definition of fun.

Pudfark
10-19-2009, 10:10 PM
Howdy All,

M_gunz..it took awhile, but I am catching your message... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

This seems to be an effort of "self flagellation"...I don't believe for one moment that anyone takes part in this game with the thought in mind to educate another about Respect,Integrity and Social Graces...I certainly don't. I won't.

To complain about others behavior in the game is like complaining about getting the "clap" at the cathouse...the cure is Don't Go there...

The world is full of self centered selfish folks who cannot be educated, ruled or guidlined...and that is why we have jails and grave yards....and servers have kicks/bans...

That is really all that can be said Tuphlandng..With no disrespect to you or your purpose...

Pudfark/NGW-Sancho

BillSwagger
10-20-2009, 02:18 AM
It would be great to have guidelines, but I see bigger issues with bickering and usually what comes out of rules not being properly enforced. Maybe some rules are difficult to enforce.

Long before my Il2 days i played another sim online where the rules were pretty straight forward and difficult to cheat them because they were automated into the game, which meant you got warned and then kicked. If it was a real extreme case, like someone trying to disrupt the game, or impose his will on others then the admin could ban them.


Often people formed their own squads which also meant having their own code of ethics. A lot of this was to keep people from sharing tactics with other squads, some of the rules covered similar things like chute shooting.

The chats often rang out about ramming. That will never change, but you couldn't shoot your team mate which was nice, in that it was not an issue for people to argue about. The more popular room in this sim had it set that way, but they also had a historical room/server where you could shoot teammates. The settings were also more difficult. Very similar to what you might call full real, however the flight model itself was much more primitive than Il2.
The great thing was kill stealing was non-existent. The points/kill went to the player who did the most damage. Real simple too, and i don't remember it being as big an issue as it is on some servers with this game. It would be great to have a patch for this, but i'm also finding some servers have classier players where its really not about that at all.

It really wasn't about scoring kills cause there was also more depth in that sim, meaning that it wasn't just about flying to fight or complete one mission, although some people did. You also set up positions to protect against bombers, or form an attack. This would trigger tanks, which then could capture a base. It was a pretty neat game, but it became too archaic for me, as the flight models were purposely butcherd to even out the sides. Their historical rooms offer realistic flight models, but those rooms never quite filled up the same.
So i'm already in the habit of flying, fighting, and returning to base. Sometimes planesets were limited which meant if i could save a plane i would.

I think i'll stop there cause i'm going off topic.

Anyway, it would be good to see people focus more on the mission and not just scoring kills. I just don't see that happening until more depth is added to the sim.



Bill

M_Gunz
10-20-2009, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Pudfark:
This seems to be an effort of "self flagellation"...I don't believe for one moment that anyone takes part in this game with the thought in mind to educate another about Respect,Integrity and Social Graces...I certainly don't. I won't.

You just haven't met the right groups maybe or maybe it's that part about educating which in practice is more like
sorting out the ones you like through common interests and some time together. No force is necessary when the pushing
is done by the ones you don't want; the team killers, kill stealers, vulchers, air-quakers provide the motivation to
get the ones who want decent play to join together and find or make solutions.

Pudfark
10-20-2009, 09:34 AM
Folks for many years have tried to legislate conduct and behavior in this Sim....as long as the server is "open" to the public, these types of problems will re-occur...and they do, often.

More rules/guidlines and or a more detailed explanation of them will not deter the majority of the miscreants...my point being, ten years later and we still have the same complaints...and no resolution found...To your credit, I applaud the effort you are trying to make....History does repeat itself, I have read and participated in many forums containing this subject matter....none, no where, have they ever been successful in a public venue...private games/coops are the only sure way...I play both and don't complain about the public...as I stated before, bullets and bans are the only thing that work there...nothing else ever has...

I know you don't want to hear any of the above and it is tendered with sincerity for you and the others that have posted here...Every Public Server that I know of, that has Admins, kicks and bans.

Respectfully,

Pudfark...

Pudfark
10-20-2009, 11:37 AM
Tuph,

Okie Dokie..if you insist http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Take a trip here Mag-13.com

I am not affiliated with these fine folks...I do fly on their server and much enjoy their company and suggestions for fair play....I believe that you will also....I very much agree with their outlook...and especially the way that they recruit....Read their Forums and Rules http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Su Amigo,

Pudfark..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Pudfark
10-20-2009, 11:50 AM
Uno mas helpful suggestion:

If the object is to educate or cull out the "Coyotes"...TeamSpeak is the best and most efficient way that I know of... IMHO it should be mandatory. It allows the instant address of issues and promotes an immediate course of action or remedy for the issue at hand...

Su Amigo,

Pudfark/NGW-Sancho

squareusr
10-20-2009, 12:10 PM
Ramming... i'll happily stay on course if i'm caught alone by a faster plane with energy advantage and he has nothing better to do than giving me the chance to point my guns-end at his guns-end. His turn to evade if he want's to get me on second pass. I like realistic settings in the simulation for the amazing gameplay value, but i see little point in futile attempts of social simulation of air warfare.

Ramming bombers is a different matter of course. But i'd grant everybody the assumption that it happened due to incompetence and not due to malevolence. I've seen enough fair and very capable 109 pilots to be totally unable to cope with the awesome lack of speed of a TB-3, for example.

The fun part is that assuming lack of skill would be the most useful thing to do anyway, even in the rare case that someone is really only out to annoy. If you offer lessons on how to not accidentally ram it will actually hurt them more than kicking them off the server. Griefers want to feel like Sith-Lords, not like a Padawan.

BillSwagger
10-20-2009, 12:47 PM
I had nick names for different pilots.

Ronald "The Rammer" Rambert:
He is out to get you anyway he can. He will point his guns at you and never think to swever to avoid a collision. Most of the time its your fault, because Ranald is one the better pilots in the game. This means that if you collide, then you didn't swerve soon enough.


Jack Warpington and Herbert Jumpsome:
Watch out for this duo, they are usually hard to see, and some say they might even be the same person. They have a real nack for sliding out of the way just as you're lining up for a kill shot. Some call it science, i call it weird.

Buddy Buttinski:
Your beloved teammate, Buddy, is just trying to help. Unfortunately, he has a bad habit of flying where your guns are already pointed.
"Thanks Buddy"



Bill

Tuphlandng
10-20-2009, 01:07 PM
Here is a resent PM that I received

"I think there is only so much to be had on the Il2 platform as it stands. I really think if people had more to do then there wouldn't be any problems with kills and points. The object should be to win the match with the least amount of losses.
I think too many folks get caught up in the dog fights, and i really can't blame them because most missions are fairly simple. It also has alot to do with some of the plane sets, but a bigger factor is overall organization between teammates.
I stopped thinking about it so hard, and really just enjoy playing it for what it is."

JtD
10-20-2009, 01:37 PM
Well, I sometimes play for fun, not for winning.

M_Gunz
10-20-2009, 01:54 PM
Can the server software or daemon determine if someone did ram?

Tuphlandng
10-20-2009, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Can the server software or daemon determine if someone did ram?

And there in lies the dilemma of Ramming.

Sure record the game from start to finish revue looking for offenses.

Sounds time consuming not to mention hard drive resources. Server would have to be shut down to do the revue.

I asked one Bomber pilot how long for a a decent mission, he said at least 120 Min. That is a lot of hard drive space.

I could use some help with this.
Recording a game takes up hard drive space.
Is there a program that can be used to transfer the Game Recording to a CD or DVD after it has been recorded on the hard drive?


Tuph

DKoor
10-20-2009, 04:17 PM
Just fly over 2000m.
Rammers usually don't go above 1000m.
Problem solved.

Tuphlandng
10-21-2009, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Pudfark:
Tuph,

Okie Dokie..if you insist http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Take a trip here Mag-13.com



I checked it out seems that it is a Squadren forum

Thank you gave me an idea for a format to present the guidelines.
Lengthy but I think dueable Let me know if your intrested

Tuph

PS DKoor your Avatar scares me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

RSS-Martin
10-21-2009, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Just fly over 2000m.
Rammers usually don't go above 1000m.
Problem solved.
Bomb runs that low are crazy. Unless you have torpedos.
Normal flight level is around 5000m or higher.

I can live with the possibiltiy of rammings, but to think of masses of US Kamikazies just does not fit. Stuff like that you then think where is "Dark Helmet" and the ludicrous speed.
May the Schwartz be with you! http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/psycho.gif

DKoor
10-21-2009, 09:01 AM
Hehe I was kinda exaggerating to make a point http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
Many of these guys don't take the game seriously in any aspect, so logically if they expanded all ammo they will ram you just for the fun.
They are looking for quick fun probably not interested in historical aspect all together.

RSS-Martin
10-21-2009, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Hehe I was kinda exaggerating to make a point http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
Many of these guys don't take the game seriously in any aspect, so logically if they expanded all ammo they will ram you just for the fun.
They are looking for quick fun probably not interested in historical aspect all together.

I know that is the sad thing. Those kids that just want fast action, and don´t give a hoot about the planes or what things where like then, just spoil it. But you have that on all WWII sims be it IL2 or ones with tanks....shame there is no force feed back for those, that if they pull some loony wild thing they get their butts wumped! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

RSS-Martin
10-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Ok I will make a US Kamikazie squad Banzai!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

ElAurens
10-21-2009, 03:54 PM
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

ElAurens
10-21-2009, 05:52 PM
Enjoy your match sir...

I'm out.

S!

Pudfark
10-21-2009, 06:18 PM
I just cannot resist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
"No..don't..stop it.." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

For all of those super serious warlike simmers out there..who believe in simulating the "real meal deal." I challenge you to delete this game..break the dvd over your knee...the next time you get shot down or crash...and that will really make your case... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif No No, don't do that, we need you all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Please do not take any of this seriouslyhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tuphlandng is really trying to find a combination that will work for the most number of folks...The more responses he receives, potentially the better result for all...

Old Pudfark....

Woke_Up_Dead
10-21-2009, 07:16 PM
I share the opinion of those who say that if the map is designed well then you won't need many rules at all, and there won't be much conflict. Put up good AA defenses and alternate bases then vulching won't be much of an issue. Give the bombers plenty of targets and an airstart to attract ground-pounders to the server. Place the airfields in such a way that fighters will be meeting each other over more than just one point on the map. Turn enough of the switches on (without necessarily making a full-switch server) then you will attract more serious and experienced players.

Rules are often an artificial way to get around design flaws in the system. Eg., why are parking fines so heavy in the city centers of most cities? Because city planners in the past did not think to accommodate increased traffic to the center, or did not design the city in a way to avoid heavy traffic downtown in the first place. Slap on some rules instead (No parking here! No parking there! $10 to park anywhere!), and voila, your butt is covered. Except then you need to have a rule enforcement system, parking meters, meter maids, etc.

I would have one rule only: no team killing. Most rules are too subjective and have big gray-zones: the kill stealer may not have noticed the dead engine or dead pilot; the shoulder shooter may have thought that his team-mate who was simply repositioning himself was actually out of ammo and breaking off the attack; the rammer may have simply been inexperienced or may have received a big dose of lag right at the wrong moment. Another scenario: what happens when you see team-mate A being pursued by a bandit, who himself is being pursued by team-mate B, but team-mate B is doing a poor job of hitting the bandit, who is chewing up team-mate A? Do you stay away for fear of being kicked for shoulder-shooting?

Tuphlandng
10-21-2009, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Tuphlandng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

In keeping with the purpose of this thread I needed to edit this response.

My post was off topic rude and disrespectful.
I cannot ask for your opinion and then put you down for it. I was wrong to do so and I apologize to yo all and especially ElAurens. My conduct was unfriendly and unsportsmanlike like.

My apology's

Tuph </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
~S~

RSS-Martin
10-21-2009, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Tuphlandng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Ok I will make a US Kamikazie squad Banzai!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I was actually thinking of having a game that the only way to bring a plane down would be to ram it.
Maybe call it "Banzai"

Fighter against fighter I think would show a persons skill

sorry I'm kind of getting a little to into this??

Tuph

Is it time to open this thread up to more of a general discussion?? Or let it fade away? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha you didn´t get the joke? "US-Kamikazie squad" how many do you think existed?

Sorry I can´t follow as this is making the unusual usual.

If that is the way you wish to go where are the German flying saucers and all the other fable weapons?

Sorry I think I will stick to the few servers I regularly fly on and not bother with this.

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 01:33 AM
Hmm I would keep rules simple and few. The only two that I would take are no team killing, especially in the spawn area, and no shooting at chutes, thats about it. Everything else can be handeled by the map maker. Although maybe add also proper markings, as it is anoying to see Zeros with German markings, or Fw190s with British markings. But that is almost like fighting windmills...

RSS-Martein This was your first post on this topic??
"Keep the rules simple and few.:

In all your posts I have yet to see a solution that would benefit the whole community. I have tried to make suggestions to accommodate Bomber pilots to no satisfaction on any ones part.

An American Kamikaze Squadron I got the joke.
How many American Kamikaze Squadron's do I think existed??? What kind of question is that??? Just give this some thought maybe just maybe some of these hero's may have a reason to ram you. I haven't even heard any feedback on my suggestions positive or negative. I feel as though I am working on your problem by my self. Frankly getting rammed is not my problem.

Any way you are welcome on my server any time.
Tuph

Pudfark
10-22-2009, 10:46 AM
Howdy Tuph,

Woke_Up_Dead and yourself have come up with the best solution that I have heard of in years....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

The really, really cool thing is that it is practical and do able....

+1 to you both........

Old Pudfark....

Pudfark
10-22-2009, 10:58 AM
Oooopsies....

Vultching: single engine aircraft can be vultched with anything other than "ramming".

Multi engine with bombs or rockets. No ramming unless permitted in briefing....

All of the above depending on Map Design...and or objectives...

My two cents worth...I can live with or without.

Old Pudfark......

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Pudfark:
Howdy Tuph,

Woke_Up_Dead and yourself have come up with the best solution that I have heard of in years....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

The really, really cool thing is that it is practical and do able....

+1 to you both........

Old Pudfark....

The credit goes to Woke_Up_Dead I just agreed.


Tuph

Xiolablu3
10-22-2009, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy.

Pudfark
10-22-2009, 02:14 PM
Howdy Xiolablue3,

It seems that what you have described about the ramming is more true on the openpit/public servers...where the vast majority of pilots are all just flying for themselves and have no squad affiliation...I, myself, prefer to fly open pit with my squad...It seems to me that when flying alone, w/o squad, incidents such as you described, occur more often....Safety in numbers seems to be better...Very few times in my limited experience playing this sim, have I observed pilots wearing squad insignia misbehave. I sure wish all servers required TeamSpeak for play...it seems to iron out a lot of problems and misunderstandings and promotes better and more honorable game play....

I am certain that you know all of these things and I stated them mostly as a reminder to the readers of this thread...it takes a lot of guts and skill to fly a bomber on some of the "Public Servers" and do it by yourself....

I play for the fun of it and always try my best to protect the bomber guys...

I think bans and kicks are necessary for selfish and inconsiderate pilots....

Old Pudfark.....

Old Pudfark...

Woke_Up_Dead
10-22-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm happy my suggestions and observations struck a chord. The hard part of course will be to design or select the right maps that will allow minimal rules. Maybe a good start would be to take note which online maps are currently conductive to conflict and rule-breaking, and which are not.

Slightly off-topic, but I hope that the scoring system will change with SOW. I hope to see the number of each player's defeats and deaths displayed along with their kills. Having a high kill score won't be so impressive if it's also apparent that the number of defeats is even higher. This might persuade some pilots to fly less recklessly, not ram, not vulch, not ignore the guy hitting them from their six just because they themselves have a bomber lined up in their sights.

blairgowrie
10-22-2009, 04:29 PM
6 pages so far! At some point you will have to fish or cut bait.

Just do it man. Nothing is caste in stone.

M_Gunz
10-22-2009, 05:03 PM
The skillful ones did not actually ram, they cut the enemy plane with their prop generally shredding tail control surfaces.
I would compare that to tipping V-1's, no simple feat to fly close formation to a hostile plane. Of course if he has a
tail gunner then that has to be silenced first which is not so easy in IL2.

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 05:30 PM
Thank you for coming back.

The scoring system is on topic. And frankly in my opinion part of the delama I face.
It was suggested to completely do away with the points system by a player that enjoyed seeing that he got another score so I don't believe it to be non bias and is a good suggestion.

Some clam that they play for fun and not for points. So it would seem that it may also be the solution.

One of the biggest arguments against ramming has been to rob points from players. Kill stealing has been brought up as a no no and of course camping seems to be away of accruing points with little effort. The escape button can be pushed to rob a player of a kill point. Landing in a field and not ejecting sames to be a way to rob points.So I believe that the point system may be flawed in that respect. And there are more ways that I don't know about.

When I play off line my score card shows friendly kills and being ex military and an instructor is for me embarrassing.Not so much as it goes against my score but because I just wasted an asset. I guess it has something to do with immersion??? When I don't complete a mission or all my squad doesn't make it back I have failed the mission,immersion??? When one of my is under attack in my squad or not I hustle to his defense,again immersion. And I am just referring to off line.

Any robing of a players points robs him or her of just that,immersion,and I feel is not unlike the Mods of late,IE invincible planes and X wing fighters with super bullets,so in that respect it is my opinion that if players died in game,Shot up while sitting in a field,hiting esc butten to avoid getting smoked, there score card should reflect just that no points just died in game and points collected should be canceled when they re-spawn.

But this should really apply to a squad on squad matches and I don't see it as a problem. I think that being a member of a squad comes with a certain amount of pride.

My thoughts on blinking nav lights to signal a surrender. Falls under the category of a Dead Stick Landing. I have often wounderd why damaged AI don't land first???? This is what I wrote about nav lights

Emergency landings ”qqq” and NAV Lights (Dead stick landings 1&2)
NAV Lights are used for Dead Stick Landings
Dead Stick 1
Calling out dead stick declares an emergency and gives you priority to a landing strip or zone. A dead stick landing is just that, you have a dead stick no power and poor controls and uncontrolled decent. Dead stick takes priority and gets right of way for the runway.
Report Dead Stick turn on your lights and land the other planes will clear your path.
Dead Stick 2
For other then mechanical failures report “dead stick” state the problem, Fuel, Controls, Cramp, Rest Room or even Snacks, turn on your lights and land come back and catch up with out losing your spot
If you don’t have TS
For those that don’t have team speak type ”qqq” turn on your lights land let us know why you had to land come back you wont loose your spot. The lights help to see you so you can be avoided and a possible escort can track you. It is recommended that you do not fly with them on as it makes you an easer target to spot.

It was only brought a couple of times and I thought I would address it because I hope to be thorough.

Basically I believe that while you are engage you are a target while in a feild with out ejecting you are a target Using your nav light is for emmergences and you are a target and firing on a players that has signaled a surrender by using nav lights is up to your discretion and is considered a target.

Tuph


PS I think I may be getting into this to much????

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by blairgowrie:
6 pages so far! At some point you will have to fish or cut bait.

Just do it man. Nothing is caste in stone.

OK if that is a request,it still needs some polish,here it is:



Welcome to the Gladiator’s server
For those about to die we salute you
With Honor and Respect

While you are here you represent your squadrons conduct your self with the codes of your squadrons if they don’t do it then you don’t do it here.

If you are not part of a squad then these are your guide lines and your code of conduct
For those that just want to fly and share this experience with others on-line then you must follow The Gladiators guidelines
NO Exceptions will be tolerated.

Trolls and Spamers or any one joining to disrupt the flow of any game will be treated as a spy and shot down and possibly kicked. Repeated offenses you will be kicked.
We just wont take the time to sort it out that is your job to prove your not.

Respect and Honor
Gladiators are respected by Gladiators and don’t have the right to expect it from others.
You will treat players as you would be treated regardless of the way that treat you.
Respect: if you have none then you have no privilege playing in this server
This includes gross obscenities in any regard whether in jokes or just being mulishess it will not be tolerated no exceptions. Sometimes we slip but keep in mind the age bracket of the players. And keep in mind that maybe it is soucily acceptable; it may be offensive to others

Name-calling
Please by all means in this arena As a Gladiator the more colorful the better as long as it is not offensive and or derogative. If a player tells you it is offensive then it is don’t repeat it

Respect others colors
Do not fly under another’s banner or an on-line name
This includes and is not limited, Call signs Squadron Colors or their skins. Simple if it isn’t yours then don’t touch it.

Logging on as a deferent user
Is accepted for a number of reasons. We will need to know who you are to be invited to closed missions. Using the same name each visited will improve your chances and lets us get to know you. You my be invited to be a Gladiator


Proper Marking’s on planes
All planes will have proper markings NO exceptions. Improper markings can be offensive to others and out of respect proper markings on the proper planes. I will not explain this any clearer so just make sure you have the proper markings on your plane. We do not fly captured planes


Attacking Aircraft on Final and Ramming
Falls under poor sportsmen ship and frowned upon. Some of our missions last a long time. The damage engine of this sim allows us to fly with damaged surfaces and control cables Landing becomes more difficult and we prepare for a hard landing and to deprive another player of this challenge is poor sportsmen ship and is not condoned by any of the Gladiators.
Ramming is not condoned on this server unless outlined in your Squadron ‘s Code of Conduct and only in appropriate missions. If you can’t bring it down with bullets then you cant bring it down.

Chute Shooting
Some players find it offensive what’s the point so just don’t do it


Camping
Gladiators want a fair fight and do not camp on enemy bases so you shall not either.

Vulching
Sometimes a player will spawn while you are above his base strafing the plane on the ground is frond upon by the Gladiators. We well mock strafe the base (with out firing). But there are consequences.

Defense against a mock strafing
If you have just re-spawned and are Mock strafed Fire when he falls in your sites He asked for it he gets it you and the flak may get him.

Team Killing and point stealing
Any form of point stealing is subject to inquiry whether it is team killing or not ejecting after landing to avoid a fight or engine trouble a downed plane is a slow target get out of it unless you want to be a target to.
If engaged and a friendly fly’s into your guns brake off the attack and reengage or the result may be recorded as a friendly kill on your record.

Gladiators points system
Points are tallied recorded and posted as a Squadron score.
Friendly kills are Highlighted


Emergency landings ”qqq” and NAV Lights (Dead stick landings 1&2)
NAV Lights are used for Dead Stick Landings
Dead Stick 1
Calling out dead stick declares an emergency and gives you priority to a landing strip or zone. A dead stick landing is just that, you have a dead stick no power and poor controls and uncontrolled decent. Dead stick takes priority and gets right of way for the runway.
Report Dead Stick turn on your lights and land the other planes will clear your path.
Dead Stick 2
For other then mechanical failures report “dead stick” state the problem, Fuel, Controls, Cramp, Rest Room or even Snacks, turn on your lights and land come back and catch up with out losing your spot
If you don’t have TS
For those that don’t have team speak type ”qqq” turn on your lights land let us know why you had to land come back you wont loose your spot. The lights help to see you so you can be avoided and a possible escort can track you. It is recommended that you do not fly with them on as it makes you an easer target to spot.
Ramming
Waste of resources and not condoned



Gladiators Police them self’s
Gladiators have one purpose to entertain the mob. Our complaints fall on deaf ears outside of the Arena. So we only complain amongst our selves. We hope you will do the same

If you are kicked or received a Kick warning
We welcome all participants and mistakes are made. So after receiving a kick warning message ask why and apologize or defend your actions, don’t argue cant stress that enough. A Gladiator or Moderator was witness or someone complained ether way he wants to know both sides you wont kicked for explaining but you could get banned for arguing.

We are human and make mistakes If your are kicked, sign in as a deferent user and come back and defend your self. Don’t repeat the same offense and you wont get Kicked again


Externals are Tools for Moderators and observers
You may have noticed that the externals are on at this server we use it as a training aid and to monitor visitors. Use it at your discretion. You may want to just watch other pilots fly after you land or get shot down we don’t mind.

We wont always be on line so we rely on you to let a us know of disrespectful actions as outlined above and found that it is the only way to properly moderate this server. Although first or even second offense may not result in an immediate reprimand but you should see a warning message on the screen as long as there is a Gladiator on-line. If you are offended then take the first step confront him/her in a respectful manor. If it keeps up let us know and we while try to resolve the issue in a calm manor. Gladiators don’t want to be chained to a whiner so keep in mind that complaints are considered a verbal weapon and should be treated as such and not to be taken lightly, to many and you may be thought of as a troll.
In regards to complaints “Draw me not in anger sheath me not with out honor” is our guideline


All Gladiators are moderators and expect them to be watching



Who are the Gladiators?
Some were Prisoners of War
Some Were Sentenced to Death
Some were Free Men and Women

To suffer myself to be whipped by with rods burned by fire or killed by steel if I disobey
This is MY OATH
For I AM
GLADEATOR



Enjoy

Tuphlanding

DKoor
10-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun!

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Suggested recourse to a teammate getting rammed perhaps? Hadn't thought of that.
Slow Bomber could pound the base for a while.
Brainfart dies and again and again and again aaannnd again

Coool thought

Tuph

PS your Avatar still scares me

Treetop64
10-22-2009, 08:02 PM
Several air forces practiced ramming during the war, not just the Japanese. Soviet ramming attacks against German bombers was almost common over the Eastern front, especially in the first two years and, particularly, with I-16 pilots. The Germans sometimes resorted to ramming attacks against "viermonts" late in the war. Of course, there are the well-documented cases of Kamikaze attacks against U.S. warships from the Phillipine campaign onwards, as well as ramming attacks against the B-29s - which the Japanese considered their real enemy.

In virtually every case the ramming pilot was green; he knew he had no hope of beating the enemy with tactical skill but could still deal a big blow by ramming, even if he has just one shot at it.

Within the realm of this sim ramming is a viable tactic, if one gets frustrated enough that is! Whether or not it's fair solely depends on the rules of a given MP server, however you're taking your chances anytime you go up on any server, so be prepared for anything! Who knows: one day you might be having a bad mission and will feel compelled to ram that bugger that just refuses to die...

M_Gunz
10-22-2009, 08:13 PM
If you are focusing on team play then maybe make the big points team points and give penalties for foul play?
Have at least some players make tracks and use chat words to time-stamp the track for quick find by log later.
If the server can run daemons to record tracks from remote cameras at the bases then so much the better.

jermin122
10-22-2009, 08:27 PM
Compared to fair rules, fair admins are more essential for the popularity of the server in my opinion.

RSS-Martin
10-22-2009, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+10 !!
I was thinking that, have done that only once on a real loony server, where people almost only rammed. They found ramming funny but when their base got pounded and then taken under fire from my gunners, they didn´t find that funny any more. Guess it is only fun when you are not on the receiving end.

Yes fair Admins is a point!
Also the thing with deaths, well a bomber pilot is usually more often intercepted than fighters.
As once discovered you can not escape easily, and usually as soon as people see somewhere there are tracers they swarm in to see what is going on. That means on a full server as a bomber pilot you are a dead duck.

Otherwise what I have read sounds o.k., will have to see if they are followed though.
As "paper" is patient.

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 10:08 PM
Hay Treetop64
You are absolutely right ramming to bring down an opponent was expected by some Military. Not just the Japanese. And I will have to look I may have wrote something to the affect that only Japanese get to ram??

Your second paragraph:

"In virtually every case the ramming pilot was green; he knew he had no hope of beating the enemy with tactical skill but could still deal a big blow by ramming, even if he has just one shot at it."

Really I think explains both sides:

"could still deal a big blow by ramming ,even If he has one shot at it"

I would think that in the Mission perimeter that ramming be acceptable to stop the Heavy,or Bomber, from reaching his intended goal. In a game the mane goal is to win. I also try to think about the bomber pilot that spent the better part of the day in a chair munchen chips and drinking beer juice,I myself like coco, has to go to the bath room for the last fifteen minutes but cant because he is almost at the base and has to land to get all his points for the mission then he gets rammed three quarters into the mission or on final. That would pop my balloon.So with that person in mind I wrote what I felt would be acceptable. And Ramming an Aircraft should be frond upon and a poor expediter of resources and there for poor sportsmanship out side of the combat zone. In my opinion an empty Bomber has already done the damage to the map,his kills have been recorded and is no longer a threat we lost he won. I would shoot out a couple of engines land,TRY!, hit control/F2 and ether flip him some poo egg him on or tell him to keep going and hopefully congratulate him on a good landing and congratulate him on the win. If he toss's to much egg in my face and I am out of bullets I might single him out and try harder to bring him down next time.

M_Gunz

Welcome back
"Have at least some players make tracks and use chat words to time-stamp the track for quick find by log later."

I would recommend it, I don't know how much disk space a long mission would use. All though some of the games would be cool to post. Records for postarity rather then looking for infractions sound more attractive.

jermin122

Welcome

"Compared to fair rules, fair admins are more essential for the popularity of the server in my opinion."

Excellent point but to properly Moderate there has to be guidelines to use in moderating so If I may:

"Fair admins are mandetorie for this to work."

If we look at the UBI moderators each and every one was hand picked and volunteers. And I cant think of one that hasn't but some helium in my laugh. And each one is respected for there own merit's,in what we see and read. When we have a problem we go to them when we have a question we go to them. And because they have guidelines in which to Moderate I will get the same answer from each one. And because I have none you as a player will have to do.

1-A player that is kicked gets to come back under a different user name to explain or defend himself.
2-A player will not be banned with out a vote
The first is designed as a defense
The second because I want to be a member of a team that compliments my goals and abilities.


Tuph

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 10:13 PM
Welcome back RSS-Martin
As "paper" is patient.

Paper is only Paper
A poem is a song


Thanks for your post I am still in your corner.

Tuph

BillSwagger
10-22-2009, 10:18 PM
my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

RSS-Martin
10-22-2009, 10:27 PM
That would be an idea. Also when a bomber does get lucky and brings a fighter down, and he is still near an enemy base, the fighter always has the chance for a fast revenge. As the bomber is slow. Had that a few times where a fighter had to bail and no time flat he was on my tail again with a new plane.

Tuphlandng
10-22-2009, 10:31 PM
Welcome back BillSwagger


Originally posted by BillSwagger:
my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

"Seems unfair to the harder working Bomber pilot" and that is the bottom line to be a proper server. Ramming for the fighter pilot isn't game over for the Bomber pilot it would be. Do you think that we might have more on-line Bombers if there was less deliberate point stealing ramming?


Tuph

RSS-Martin
10-22-2009, 10:33 PM
What really gets me is when you are attacked on final. Had that yesterday, everytime I was on final I had always the same fellow shooting like crazy at my plane, he did that with every bomber, and peoples tempers where getting up because of him.

jermin122
10-23-2009, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

This problem can be easily solved. Some server management applications have a function called Deathkick, which will ban the player who has died whatever times for whatever length of time.

This will make the players think twice before they deliberately ram into some others.

M_Gunz
10-23-2009, 03:17 AM
Give the bombers major points for hitting the target and minor ones (enough to make it worth trying) for landing.
Just a shame they can't air-exit along one map edge, hard to camp an entire map edge.

DKoor
10-23-2009, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+10 !!
I was thinking that, have done that only once on a real loony server, where people almost only rammed. They found ramming funny but when their base got pounded and then taken under fire from my gunners, they didn´t find that funny any more. Guess it is only fun when you are not on the receiving end.

Yes fair Admins is a point!
Also the thing with deaths, well a bomber pilot is usually more often intercepted than fighters.
As once discovered you can not escape easily, and usually as soon as people see somewhere there are tracers they swarm in to see what is going on. That means on a full server as a bomber pilot you are a dead duck.

Otherwise what I have read sounds o.k., will have to see if they are followed though.
As "paper" is patient. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hehehehe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif.

Long time ago when there was VFC server (which sported mainly Eastern Front) alive and ticking I flew one funny sortie... mate and I crewed IL-2 series 1's (those with 16 rockets or so) and two of us, escorted by 2 VVS P-40's headed for German base we flew at tree top while they flew high up. After we showed up AA opened, but after only one pass (I think) everything was silenthttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif (P-40's had bombs).
We proceed to do what seemed to be one of the biggest ownages I ever saw online...

Time after time whenever one blue tried to take off he chewed teh RS-82 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif or ShVAK... to add to confusion server was realistic with limited friendly icons only... after some time we decided to retreat because they all switched the base.

I mean bomber pilots can be mean and vengeful http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif .

DKoor
10-23-2009, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Give the bombers major points for hitting the target and minor ones (enough to make it worth trying) for landing.
Just a shame they can't air-exit along one map edge, hard to camp an entire map edge. Yeah, especially true on some small maps where you can almost smell the most distant enemy base.

RSS-Martin
10-23-2009, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

This problem can be easily solved. Some server management applications have a function called Deathkick, which will ban the player who has died whatever times for whatever length of time.

This will make the players think twice before they deliberately ram into some others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the by.stormovik server there is a 10min death kick if you are killed twice in a row. No rammers there!

RSS-Martin
10-23-2009, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+10 !!
I was thinking that, have done that only once on a real loony server, where people almost only rammed. They found ramming funny but when their base got pounded and then taken under fire from my gunners, they didn´t find that funny any more. Guess it is only fun when you are not on the receiving end.

Yes fair Admins is a point!
Also the thing with deaths, well a bomber pilot is usually more often intercepted than fighters.
As once discovered you can not escape easily, and usually as soon as people see somewhere there are tracers they swarm in to see what is going on. That means on a full server as a bomber pilot you are a dead duck.

Otherwise what I have read sounds o.k., will have to see if they are followed though.
As "paper" is patient. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hehehehe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif.

Long time ago when there was VFC server (which sported mainly Eastern Front) alive and ticking I flew one funny sortie... mate and I crewed IL-2 series 1's (those with 16 rockets or so) and two of us, escorted by 2 VVS P-40's headed for German base we flew at tree top while they flew high up. After we showed up AA opened, but after only one pass (I think) everything was silenthttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif (P-40's had bombs).
We proceed to do what seemed to be one of the biggest ownages I ever saw online...

Time after time whenever one blue tried to take off he chewed teh RS-82 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif or ShVAK... to add to confusion server was realistic with limited friendly icons only... after some time we decided to retreat because they all switched the base.

I mean bomber pilots can be mean and vengeful http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well what I did was after a few fighters got me on the happy side, I first wumped their base with 2 SC2000 bombs then did low passes with my He111 H6 using the front gunner position and raked anything that was still there, then landed beside where the enemy spawned and did them in with the waist gunner und top gunner positions.....funny thing the fighter jocks where not happy any more. I just couldn´t understand it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Xiolablu3
10-23-2009, 06:13 AM
And so the server descends into anarchy and no fun for anyone.

DKoor
10-23-2009, 06:18 AM
But hey... they just asked for it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif .

RSS-Martin
10-23-2009, 06:31 AM
Oh it takes a while until I want vengance, but when I do, then it is no more Mr. Nice-Guy.
Now a days I take a close look what kind of folks are on a server, if I see it is the "Fun-squad" looking to get the bombers heated up I am gone.
As there are more amusing things in life then being annoyed by a bunch of silly kids that take pride in ruining everything.http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/computer_dau.gif
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/Smile.jpg

RSS-Martin
10-23-2009, 09:49 AM
Well come to think of it, after being rammed a good dozen times, yes my fuel ran out just at their base, and since it was the only airport I could reach....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

DKoor as to ownages have a look at this screen shot, is a red base which constantly bugged us with Spitfires, what you see is the direct hit of those AC1000 canister bombs. Nothing came from that base for awhile!
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/bild8as3.jpg
My favorite view of a enemy airbase, best especially when those "little friends" are there getting ready for take off.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Riga1.gif

Tuphlandng
10-23-2009, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Well come to think of it, after being rammed a good dozen times, yes my fuel ran out just at their base, and since it was the only airport I could reach....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


Did you make it back to base???

After reading the last few posts I thought an amendment should be made.

Ramming=Camping
Ramming to bring down a Heavy is not condoned on this server unless outlined in your Squadron‘s Code of Conduct and only in appropriate missions. If you can’t bring it down with bullets then you cant bring it down or you may find a Squadron of Heavy Bombers Camped out at your Base.


What do you think?

Tuph

Pudfark
10-23-2009, 11:08 AM
RSS_Martin and Tuph & All,

Now that is a perfect example of "Bombers Revenge"....very well dished out...and served cold http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I really like the idea of a "time out" if you get killed more than a couple of times...and further, I really like the idea of being able to spectate the game during the time out...I believe that this adds value, sportsmanship and common sense to the scenario/mission...

While I really prefer fighter aircraft, I think more maps should favor the bomber pilots...in survivability and targets...but not to the extent that the plane sets would be "Gladiators" (planes,Tuph) against "B-29's"..

When Tuphlandng first began this thread...I really thought he was "p-ing into the wind" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

I now believe that he is really onto something that will benefit all...and totally with the help/ideas/comments from some really smart folks that have contributed here...

Thanx Tuph & All http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Old Pudfark...

Tuphlandng
10-23-2009, 12:01 PM
Thanks Pudfark

The Gladiators as a Squadron has but one rule "Survive the Colosseum" so Gladiators don't ram ever,even to bring down the Heavy before it reaches the target. Defeats the purpose of being a Gladiator. Gladiator's were really nothing more then slaves that served a purpose,Gladiator's didn't want to fight they had to fight to survive.Gladiator's were sometimes purchased,a dead Gladiator body would be fed to the lions.Gladiator's were not unlike Boxers and Football players. Many were star's in the arena and vary famous. You could even purchase a small statue of your favorite.

"but not to the extent that the plane sets would be "Gladiators" (planes,Tuph) against "B-29's".."???

If the mission is to bring down RSS-Martin Bombers then that is what we will do but no ramming regardless of weather he has reached his target or not.This would only apply to any wanted to join "The Gladiators" and visitor's not to other Squadrons.Squadron code's would supersede these guideline's as writing in there own code's. But I am still working on that one. Be sides he already told how he would get even and I would NOT want his Bomber parked on my front door.IE Ramming=Camping or the Bombers revenge

"I really thought he was "p-ing into the wind"

Me to I was going to start a thread in Off topic "Is This Guy Nuts???


Tuph

Pudfark
10-23-2009, 12:11 PM
Hey Tuph,

I shoulda wrote "Biplanes" against "B-29's"...(the other was a poor attempt at humor)...

Su Amigo,

Old Pudfark......

Tuphlandng
10-23-2009, 12:18 PM
OHHH
I wasn't sure. And not far from the truth really as far as Gladiators go.

HMMM"Biplanes" against "B-29's"gives me an idea for a match.


Tuph

Tuphlandng
10-23-2009, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Tuphlandng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blairgowrie:
6 pages so far! At some point you will have to fish or cut bait.

Just do it man. Nothing is caste in stone.

OK if that is a request,it still needs some polish,here it is:


For those about to die we salute you

Welcome to the Gladiator’s server.
This server was built and is maintained by "the Gladiator Squadron" this is a private server for there use.Remember that we are sharing this with you. When on-line please join our public games. Here are some guidelines to follow and a brief explanation.



While you are here you represent your squadrons conduct your self with the codes of your squadrons if they don’t do it then you don’t do it here.

If you are not part of a squad then these are your guide lines and your code of conduct
For those that just want to fly and share this experience with others on-line then you must follow The Gladiators guidelines
NO Exceptions will be tolerated.

1)Trolls and Spamers or any one joining to disrupt the flow of any game will be treated as a spy and shot down and possibly kicked. Repeated offenses you will be kicked.
We just wont take the time to sort it out that is your job to prove your not.

2)Respect and Honor
Gladiators are respected by Gladiators and don’t have the right to expect it from others.
You will treat players as you would be treated regardless of the way that treat you.
Respect: if you have none then you have no privilege playing in this server
This includes gross obscenities in any regard whether in jokes or just being mulishess it will not be tolerated no exceptions. Sometimes we slip but keep in mind the age bracket of the players. And keep in mind that maybe it is soucily acceptable; it may be offensive to others

3)Name-calling
Please by all means in this arena As a Gladiator the more colorful the better as long as it is not offensive. If a player tells you it is offensive then it is don’t repeat it

4)Respect others colors
Do not fly under another s banner or an on-line name
This includes and is not limited, Call signs Squadron Colors or their skins. Simple if it isn’t yours then don’t touch it.

5)Logging on as a different user
Is accepted for a number of reasons. We will need to know who you are to be invited to closed missions. Using the same name each visited will improve your chances and lets us get to know you. You my be invited to be a Gladiator


6)Proper Marking’s on planes
All planes will have proper markings NO exceptions. Improper markings can be offensive to others and out of respect proper markings on the proper planes. I will not explain this any clearer so just make sure you have the proper markings on your plane. We do not fly captured planes


7)Attacking on Final and Ramming Bombers
Falls under poor sportsmen ship and frowned upon. Some of our missions last a long time. The damage engine of this sim allows us to fly with damaged surfaces and control cables Landing becomes more difficult and we prepare for a hard landing and to deprive another player of this challenge is poor sportsmen ship and is not condoned by any of the Gladiators.
Ramming is not condoned on this server unless outlined in your Squadron‘s Code of Conduct and only in appropriate missions. If you can’t bring a Bomber down with bullets then you cant bring it down.


8)Although if engage with a Fighter and a pilot makes an attempt to land he is still a target landing does not=escape.

9)Chute Shooting
Some players find it offensive what’s the point so just don’t do it


10)Camping
Gladiators want a fair fight and do not camp on enemy bases so you shall not either.

11(Vulching
Sometimes a player will spawn while you are above his base strafing the plane on the ground is frond upon by the Gladiators. We well mock strafe the base (with out firing). But there are consequences.

12)Defense against a mock strafing
If you have just re-spawned and are Mock strafed Fire when he falls in your sites He asked for it he gets it you and the flak may get him.

13)Team Killing and point stealing
Any form of point stealing is subject to inquiry whether it is team killing or not ejecting after landing to avoid a fight or engine trouble a downed plane is a slow target get out of it unless you want to be a target to.
If engaged and a friendly fly’s into your guns brake off the attack and reengage or the result may be recorded as a friendly kill on your record.

14)Gladiators points system
Points are tallied recorded and posted as a Squadron score.
Friendly kills are Highlighted


15)Emergency landings ”qqq” and NAV Lights (Dead stick landings 1&2)
NAV Lights are used for Dead Stick Landings
Dead Stick 1
Calling out dead stick declares an emergency and gives you priority to a landing strip or zone. A dead stick landing is just that, you have a dead stick no power and poor controls and uncontrolled decent. Dead stick takes priority and gets right of way for the runway.
Report Dead Stick turn on your lights and land the other planes will clear your path.
Dead Stick 2
For other then mechanical failures report “dead stick” state the problem, Fuel, Controls, Cramp, Rest Room or even Snacks, turn on your lights and land come back and catch up with out losing your spot
If you don’t have TS
For those that don’t have team speak type ”qqq” turn on your lights land let us know why you had to land come back you wont loose your spot. The lights help to see you so you can be avoided and a possible escort can track you. It is recommended that you do not fly with them on as it makes you an easer target to spot.
Ramming
Waste of resources and not condoned



16)Gladiators Police them self’s
Gladiators have one purpose to entertain the mob. Our complaints fall on deaf ears outside of the Arena. So we only complain amongst our selves. We hope you will do the same

17)If you are kicked or received a Kick warning
We welcome all participants and mistakes are made. So after receiving a kick warning message ask why and apologize or defend your actions, don’t argue cant stress that enough. A Gladiator or Moderator was witness or someone complained ether way he wants to know both sides you wont kicked for explaining but you could get banned for arguing.

18)We are human and make mistakes If your are kicked, sign in as a deferent user and come back and defend your self. Don’t repeat the same offense and you wont get Kicked again


19)Externals are Tools for Moderators and observers
You may have noticed that the externals are on at this server we use it as a training aid and to monitor visitors. Use it at your discretion. You may want to just watch other pilots fly after you land or get shot down we don’t mind.

20)We wont always be on line so we rely on you to let a us know of disrespectful actions as outlined above and found that it is the only way to properly moderate this server. Although first or even second offense may not result in an immediate reprimand but you should see a warning message on the screen as long as there is a Gladiator on-line. If you are offended then take the first step confront him/her in a respectful manor. If it keeps up let us know and we while try to resolve the issue in a calm manor. Gladiators don’t want to be chained to a whiner so keep in mind that complaints are considered a verbal weapon and should be treated as such and not to be taken lightly, to many and you may be thought of as a troll.
In regards to complaints “Draw me not in anger sheath me not with out honor” is our guideline


All Gladiators are moderators and expect them to be watching



Who are the Gladiators?
Some were Prisoners of War
Some Were Sentenced to Death
Some were Free Men and Women

To suffer myself to be whipped by with rods burned by fire or killed by steel if I disobey
This is MY OATH
For I AM
GLADEATOR

Or:
No Team Killing.!
No kill stealing!
No chute shooting!
Historical markings!
No trash talk!
Honor and respect!


Enjoy

Tuphlanding </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Tuph

Aviar
10-23-2009, 11:33 PM
And I think that AA target parachute when you ditch above an enamy air field.

Not any more. This has been fixed in 4.09m, which is an official patch from Oleg.

Aviar

Tuphlandng
10-24-2009, 11:27 AM
Through out this entire thread we have been discussion Rules,Regulations,Guide Lines Proper Code of Ethics what to do what not to do and on and on. Heated discussing at how the game should be played not be played depriving points when to fire when not to fire. Even discussion's at Squadron Codes and how there bad.

Now If I start a Squadron and create a server and Your Squadron has excepted a challenge or makes a challenge to compete against my Squad using My server and My maps. How do you know that I will not use that advantage to WIN the match.

In all fairness what should my guidelines be?


Tuph

Pudfark
10-24-2009, 12:40 PM
Howdy Tuph,

It seems simple to me...Let them have the choice of blue or red....which would include plane sets...I have notice that on a few servers that I have played in the past...that it always seems that I have the sun in my eyes and they don't... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Su Amigo,

Old Pudfark....

RSS-Martin
10-24-2009, 01:12 PM
Well play then Manfred Mann´s "Blinded by the Light" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tuphlandng
10-25-2009, 04:01 PM
Pudfark if you are reading this I had something way cooler in mind then pick red or blue. And I am sure it would have been approved by every one and would add to the game.

Think Map reading and make the game fun with planing on attack in mind.

Tuph



Basically the the Rules would be

Have fun
Don't Hack any body Off

Its long and wordy out of respect for those that posted in this thread and not all points have been addressed.


Thanks Again

Tuph


Edit:
I was told that what I came up with is long and wordy and no one will read it. I deleted much of my commentary well be cause it just wasn't productive any more to leave it in.
At a public server level these rules or Guidelines could never be enforced. These would apply to the moderators or squad members only and not at a public level,seriously what would I be thinking. Many Squads have longer Guidelines and some have shorter Guidelines. What these Squadrons have in common is they have Guidelines and that is what defines them as a Squadron and a team.
When I started this thread I had only two goals in mind. One was to try and stop the gripe threads about severs that frown on using proper combat tactics,BnZ=Ban, is only one of the threads I read were the player did not know what they did wrong.
The second and the most ludicrous was directed at trouble makers. I needed to build a server that even the trouble makers would have no fun disrupting games in.

It was apparent to me that as the thread grew and all your input had to be noted in these Guidelines it would never be applied to a open public server but at a Squadron level and to be fare your Squadron codes would supersede this servers, to really be fare. And enforcement would ultimately be at your Squadron level. Make sense??

I really am surprised that no one has commented to my work in the positive or negative????

Maybe you think I am nuts,Maybe I am,to spend so much time on a game????? But then I spent a week trying to paste flames on a flight model and skinners have spent years perfecting there skills.
I have spent a life time working on difficult problems in search of solutions,that is just what I do,every problem has a solution. I just try to find it,call it a hobby.

Does this in any way explain what I am trying to do? And I am still working on it.


Thanks

Tuph

End Edit

The views grow ?????

Pudfark
10-27-2009, 04:57 PM
Howdy Tuph,

I like what you have proposed...and really agree with it...

Running a "public server", open to all, is sorta like running a "beer joint" with no age limit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Running a "Private Server" is trying to I.D. everybody... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif and then let them in...

I think most folks with a squad tag and or reference from a squad would probably be the safest way to do things...not the best way, just the safest..

I have little experience in campaign flying and map making...perhaps those more experienced will add something to your thread...

Tuph, when you first started this thread, I thought you were nuts...
Over the years,I had read thousands of complaining posts about rules and behavior and never any definitive solutions...and I really believed then, that none would ever be forth coming.....I was wrong.

Several contributing posts to this thread, both negative and positive changed my mind and perspective....in a most positive way...Now, I really do believe, that it can be done in such a manner, as to address the concerns/complaints of any reasonable person, towards fair and entertaining game play.

All that being said..whew!....Tuph, you are nuttier than a squirrel t*rd, but I like your style. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Old Pudfark...

Tuphlandng
10-27-2009, 08:18 PM
Thank you Pudfark not every one got the PM I sent you. Care to share


Tuph

FoundryWork
10-28-2009, 09:46 AM
Server popularity is certainly not any measure of a servers true worth any more than Hitler's popularity meant he was a good human being!

If a server is wildly popular it may be for the same reason that internet porn is popular, it may actually be that way because it appeals to the shallow and petty!

If you look at a Bell curve, what is most popular is certainly what is average, and if you look at what is average and popular in our society, for instance War, Poverty, Britney Spears, you can get the idea that what is REALLY above average, what is really good as far as IL2 servers and IL2 pilots go, will NOT be popular at all and very well may be crucified.

So go ahead and start a server. Impose your ideals on it. If your bottom line is being popular like a high-school cheerleader, if that is what is important to you, then by all means go that way.

If on the other hand you want to put something out in the world that sacrifices popularity in doing justice to history or reality, it may not be popular and you may not be thanked, but if you ever are, you can know it will actually mean something......

Pudfark
10-28-2009, 11:28 AM
Howdy Foundrywork,

This is an email (Below) Tuph exchanged with me...
I think you are correct...A server generally goes one way or the other....and mixing the two types of themes does not seem to work...that is if I understood your post correctly....

Tuph and I have done some emailing back and forth and this is his latest idea..(Oopsies, hope I am not letting the cat out of the bag) What do y'all think about this?

EMAIL FROM Tuph:

"Here is what I had in mind to keep the games fare at a match or campaign level only:

The Maps will be choosing by the team leaders for the match and or campaigns

Teams will have equal amount of Resources
50 planes
100 AA

Map lines will change in accordance to the team with the most kills and the lowest loss of life and resources left. Each team would have the same amount of planes but may have fewer pilots to fill the seats so re-spawning is a resource to WIN the match.
Simply put:
Blu Team
30 kills
50 planes left
no re-spawn's= + points
Red Team
10 kills
5 planes left
30 re-spawns= - points
Blu team Wins the match

Both sides will receive reinforcements and re-supply’s by trans port ship and aircraft. So
One goal would be to stop re-supply and only your team would know when your re supply is arriving,adds to the challenge, and would be received from the rear of your lines.


To win you have to push the opposing team off the map losing the lest amount of resources,lose of life and getting the most kills.


A lot of work but I think would add to the SIM,more immersion and make some interesting matches.
What do you think interesting?"

Tuph

Old Pudfark would really like to know...if a format such as this...were made available? Would y'all go there? During the past 8 years, I have been totally a DogFight server pilot, and not flying with a squad, until the last year....What Tuph is proposing to do really interests me and when he gets it done, I'm gonna to drag my squad over there...

Pudfark...flying as NGW-Sancho...

MD_Titus
10-28-2009, 12:05 PM
this is an excellent thread. billfish, i like your, and the 78thsentai's, style. good approach to it.

Tuphlandng
10-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Thank you MD_Titus

Billfish and LEBillfish’s posts had a lot to do with my format. One of my favorite posts was LEBillfish’s post about her Squadron and she even went on to explain what can be expected. She went on to explain why this tactic should be expected. Ok it didn’t meet favorable by some. I saw a pride that comes with being a part of a group with commitment that knows no bounds in representing. Go back and read her post and the reply then LEBillfish's replay. And tell me if you see what I see and why it is one of my favorite’s.


Tuph

Edit
Sorry guys still nothing new
End edit

Edit Nov 5
If you think I missed something or would like to add to this post please feel free.

Tuph
End Edit
Edit November 29 th

The basis of this thread was relly to help the game be more enjoyabl and maybe stop the griping.
It really seems to me that the more players in the game the fewer the happiness. It really is my opinion that if we play the way we want to and disregard the other players there will be cause for getting kicked and banned. Even in war there is a Code of Conduct that will be followed are a possible transfer will be justified. Like I said that as this thread grew it was apparent to me that these Guidelines could only apply to a Squad and to post them as server rules is out of the question.

All games have rules and this is a game the rules should be posted and they will be posted and the Gladiators Web site. All that I asked is that if you fly with a Squad follow there rules. If you do not then follow these rules.

Thanks again for your input the good the bad and the SA

Tuph
End Edit