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SparrowThree
05-19-2004, 12:25 PM
So did they fix the roll rate? I didn't see it mentioned in the readme.txt that was posted.

Anybody have the answer?

SparrowThree
05-19-2004, 12:25 PM
So did they fix the roll rate? I didn't see it mentioned in the readme.txt that was posted.

Anybody have the answer?

tsisqua
05-19-2004, 12:29 PM
I was just coming here to post about this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Buddy, she rolls FAST! Around 3 seconds (or less!) at 430kph.

I have a new toy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tsisqua

DIRTY-MAC
05-19-2004, 12:32 PM
noh?

BaldieJr
05-19-2004, 12:32 PM
No joke?

LW is gonna be super-p1ssed.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
My Specs (read 'em and weep):
* Automatically grinds whole beans before brewing
* Fully programmable 24 hours in advance
* Brew Pause feature lets you enjoy a cup before brewing has finished
* Automatically shuts off when brewing is complete
* Grind-off feature for brewing ground coffee
* 1-4 cup feature to accommodate coffee for one
* 10-cup double-wall insulated thermal carafe to keep your coffee hot long after brewing
* Gold tone commercial-style permanent filter eliminates the need to buy coffee filters
* Charcoal water filter removes impurities from the water
* Separate grinder chamber and filter area allow for easy cleanup
* Limited 3-year warranty
</pre>

SparrowThree
05-19-2004, 12:42 PM
Whooohoooo!

BlitzPig_DDT
05-19-2004, 12:43 PM
Pi$$ed because it rolls? LOL

The only weapon the P-47 has is dive speed and zoom climb. It's infuriating that you people have been so fixated on a few dps of roll rate when the real crippling of this plane ever since the Mustang providing patch went gold has been the patch by patch reduction of zoom climb.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

SparrowThree
05-19-2004, 12:49 PM
I haven't been playing long enough to see the patch by patch reduction in zoom, so I wasn't horribly upset with it's current zoom.

I haven't attempted online play yet, so I assumed that the reason it doesn't seem to have it's pilot acclaimed ability to out dive just about everything was due to the AI FM.

Korolov
05-19-2004, 12:49 PM
Eh? Get back on your meds, boy! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Seems that now we FINALLY have a good rolling P-47!

Life as a Tbolt pilot just got easier... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

robban75
05-19-2004, 12:56 PM
The P-47 behaves wonderfully now! The rollrate feels even faster than that of the P-51!

Congrats to all Jug lovers! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

See you at 8000+!!

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-19-2004, 01:03 PM
roll is great, but I'm inclined to agree with DDT. Dive speed and zoom climb were game breakers for the ol' Jug.

I'm quite interested in the .50's too...any comments?



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

_VR_ScorpionWorm
05-19-2004, 01:05 PM
I wasnt much of a Jug lover, but when I took her up for the first time online and then offline....I fell in love with her. I only know the roll rate from AEP so I cant make a comment but if the roll rate is better than the previous. ooohhhhhhhhh(wets self), thank you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary force: You are about to embark upon a Great Crusade toward which we have strived these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. Good Luck! And let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking" - Gen. Dwight D. Eiseinhower-Supreme Allied Commander.

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

JZG-Pedro
05-19-2004, 01:21 PM
Guys, I'm no physics expert, but the P-47 should zoom climb rather poorly, as all other fighters with low powerloading and high drag coefficient. Same for initial seconds of the dive.

lindyman
05-19-2004, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JZG-Pedro:
Guys, I'm no physics expert, but the P-47 should zoom climb rather poorly, as all other fighters with low powerloading and high drag coefficient. Same for initial seconds of the dive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well... (I'm gonna piss fans off now) the P47 pretty much had 3 advantages.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>It's ability to take punishment.
<LI>It's armament.
<LI>It's energy management (dive and zoom-climb.)
[/list]

If it hadn't had all those three, but had had the rest of its characteristics the way it had, it would've sucked beyond belief.
_
/Bjorn.

DONB3397
05-19-2004, 01:43 PM
I dunno, guys. The rollrate doesn't seem much improved to me. At 400 up to 570 kph, I get about the same rollrate I did in AEP. But the firepower is still awesome...only more so. You can chew up almost anything you manage to get in your sights (at convergence).

I'd say it's still boom and zoom for DFs, and a world-beater at ground attack.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCYo5qABEkHxLZQo
"And now I see with eye serene/The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,/A Traveller between life and death." -- Wordsworth

Bamatt
05-19-2004, 01:51 PM
I think all of you have had your judgement impaired by the patch frenzy. It doesn't roll any faster, just tested it at 420 kph, and it took the usual 6 seconds or so.

BlitzPig_DDT
05-19-2004, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bamatt:
I think all of you have had your judgement impaired by the patch frenzy. It doesn't roll any faster, just tested it at 420 kph, and it took the usual 6 seconds or so.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol that actually wouldn't surprise me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
05-19-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
and a world-beater at ground attack.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Good, yes. Even excellent. But, as it stands in the game, the loadout options we have available for the P-47 simply do not compare to the IL2.

Granted, it doesn't have the same speed, but, it does have about the same toughness, a rear gunner, and about a bazillion ways to **** grunts, vehicles and parked planes.

The Jug only has 2000lbs of bombs, 6 rockets and a bit of ammo for the 8 .50s.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

LilHorse
05-19-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lindyman:

Well... (I'm gonna piss fans off now) the P47 pretty much had 3 advantages.


+ It's ability to take punishment.
+ It's armament.
+ It's energy management (dive and zoom-climb.)


If it hadn't had all those three, but had had the rest of its characteristics the way it had, it would've sucked beyond belief.
_
/Bjorn.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, what else did it need? You could take the three best attributes of any fighter and say: "Without them it would have sucked beyond belief."

RedDeth
05-19-2004, 02:05 PM
Pedro in real life the P-47 had possibly the best zoom climb of any plane in ww2. possibly the p38 was better.

nothing could touch its zoom. at full war power i believe it had 2800 horsepower and above 20000 ft its superchargers made it Untouchable. and yes ive read books specifically about the jug.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1083458407_knightsmove-taylor.jpg

BaldieJr
05-19-2004, 09:18 PM
I rolled almost 3 seconds at 460 with rudder, twice that without.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
My Specs (read 'em and weep):
* Automatically grinds whole beans before brewing
* Fully programmable 24 hours in advance
* Brew Pause feature lets you enjoy a cup before brewing has finished
* Automatically shuts off when brewing is complete
* Grind-off feature for brewing ground coffee
* 1-4 cup feature to accommodate coffee for one
* 10-cup double-wall insulated thermal carafe to keep your coffee hot long after brewing
* Gold tone commercial-style permanent filter eliminates the need to buy coffee filters
* Charcoal water filter removes impurities from the water
* Separate grinder chamber and filter area allow for easy cleanup
* Limited 3-year warranty
</pre>

BaldieJr
05-19-2004, 09:21 PM
And at 7500 meters, it will RUN DOWN a Ta. Even after turning her around i was able to catch it.

P-47 is hot stuff now.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
My Specs (read 'em and weep):
* Automatically grinds whole beans before brewing
* Fully programmable 24 hours in advance
* Brew Pause feature lets you enjoy a cup before brewing has finished
* Automatically shuts off when brewing is complete
* Grind-off feature for brewing ground coffee
* 1-4 cup feature to accommodate coffee for one
* 10-cup double-wall insulated thermal carafe to keep your coffee hot long after brewing
* Gold tone commercial-style permanent filter eliminates the need to buy coffee filters
* Charcoal water filter removes impurities from the water
* Separate grinder chamber and filter area allow for easy cleanup
* Limited 3-year warranty
</pre>

SkyChimp
05-19-2004, 09:34 PM
I'm not getting 3 second roll rates. But I'm getting much better roll rates. Well done, Oleg.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/hellsig.jpg

Eagle_361st
05-19-2004, 09:37 PM
Yes, the P-47 finally has the roll-rate addressed, the 50's do indeed seem to be much improved as well. I am very, very, very, very happy. As far as the zoom is concerned, there must something wrong with some peoples joysticks or something I have no problem with getting back all of my altitude after a dive. And the dive is a global problem due to limitation of the game engine.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

arcadeace
05-19-2004, 09:42 PM
Same here, I don't know anything about roll rate timing but this plane is a lot of fun. I am a P-47 fan. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1082457373_222_1082441075_airaces.jpg

chris455
05-19-2004, 10:54 PM
Acceleration in a dive seems much better to me.
The .50s haven't changed guys. The damage models have.
Better zoom? maybe.
Rollrate now seems identical in all 3 models.
All in all, a slight improvement. Nothing like I had hoped for. But thanks Oleg. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p47n2.jpg

mortoma
05-19-2004, 11:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JZG-Pedro:
Guys, I'm no physics expert, but the P-47 should zoom climb rather poorly, as all other fighters with low powerloading and high drag coefficient. Same for initial seconds of the dive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well it's fairly complicated. In a way, a heavy plane should build up a huge reserve of energy in a dive and retain a lot in a sudden zoom climb. But due to that same weight, when it's energy dies down during the climb, it should lost it very fast, all of a sudden. But the initial zoom should be like gangbusters due to all that energy build up. A light weight plane does not store up as much energy but would have a better sustained zoom after a dive since it can rely on it's superior
power to weight ratio to carry it up. It's zoom would not die as fast as a heavy plane when it gets near the zenith of it's climb. So the heavy plane would rely on more pure energy than it's engine power to carry it up, but a light plane more it's engine power than it's stored up energy. Did I confuse you more?? I am more confused now myself!!

VFA-195 Snacky
05-20-2004, 01:38 AM
Without getting to technical I like the changes to the P47. Actually all of the US planes recieved some attention and I can't complain about that. The roll rate feels as fast as the P51 until you hit 450kmh then it slows to a crawl where the P51 rolls faster at higher speeds.
There shouldn't be too much to complain about with the US planes now I would think. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."

**Opinions expressed are not those of UbiSoft or Eagle Dynamics**

StellarRat
05-20-2004, 01:51 AM
I use the 47 almost exclusively and I can tell you that the roll rate is much better and that the energy retention has improved. It might climb a bit faster now too. I was diving from about 3000 down to 1000 and getting all my altitude back without much trouble. I 109's and 190's I was diving on could not touch me on my zoom back up. The new .50's are much more dangerous. I was crippling planes at 500 m or with very quick 1/2 bursts at close range.

Also, the engine doesn't catch fire anymore. I didn't have one engine fire last night, but I got hit plenty. The toughness is back! One new thing to watch out for: You can shed your wings now if you pull out of a dive too hard. That never happened to me before.

I think the 47 has finally "arrived". You can use it just like you read in the books, but don't try to turn with anyone! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LuftLuver
05-20-2004, 02:49 AM
Oh yes, the Jug has come back from borderine helpless to competitive again. I brought down an A6 in tight quarters tonight because of the improved roll rate. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif My opponent was no slouch either. Besides the roll, the plane just feels more like a fighter, albeit a heavy fighter. I took on 4 ace Zeros in QMB and put them down pretty easily. This is when I noticed the zoom climb had indeed improved. I seemed to have better luck kicking the rudder for shots as well. (probably just patch induced euphoria http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif) My nose is coming around without the hideous departures and control at the top of the zoom, even as slow as 1ookph seems improved.

Welcome back bolt, we missed you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.aero-pix.com/westfield03/p47/p47-d.jpg

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
"All your bases are belong to us."

Aaron_GT
05-20-2004, 03:06 AM
"The only weapon the P-47 has is dive speed and zoom climb. It's infuriating that you people have been so fixated on a few dps of roll rate when the real crippling of this plane ever since the Mustang providing patch went gold has been the patch by patch reduction of zoom climb."

In reality it seems that the P47 took 7000ft of dive to overtake an Fw190. This suggests that the initial dive acceleration might not have been totally spectacular at medium altitudes. There is some debate in ORR about dive performance as a whole across the whole plane set, so it is probably a combination of:

1. Expecting too much dive acceleration from the P47 at low to medium altitude, expecting more than real life testing at these altitudes reveals

2. A global FM issue.

This having been said, one big advantage of the P47 is that huge turbosupercharger meaning that it retains horsepower well at high altitude, so at high altitude it has good power loading compared to other planes, and so the initial dive performance at 25,000 ft might be much better.

Aaron_GT
05-20-2004, 03:08 AM
"Pedro in real life the P-47 had possibly the best zoom climb of any plane in ww2. possibly the p38 was better."

Tempest was also better (dive and zoom), if not by much. The Meteor III (based on RAF tests) beat both in the dive by a large margin, but I am not sure what the zoom of the Meteor was like. Likely the other WW2 jets beat the P47 on zoom, but that's not totally surprising.

WOLFMondo
05-20-2004, 03:30 AM
After a few minutes the of playing with the Jug the most noticable new change is the zoom climb. Man that thing can shift now. I liked using the old P47 on DF servers but this is gonna eat other planes alive.

I can't wait to take it online.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

tttiger
05-20-2004, 03:38 AM
I've been flying the D-27 all evening in a DCG Ardennes campaign and there is no question the handling has improved and the guns are better.

Some of the guys who like to test rather than fight can figure out the stats. I just know how it "feels."

It finally feels like I expected it to feel. It's no Spitfire. It will never turnfight well.
It's not supposed to. But it can dogfight the FWs (including the Dora) and B&Z the 109s and dive away from the Franks. As long as you don't turn very much, extend away when your speed starts to drop and use rolling scissors and high yo-yos to avoid overshoots and only engage when you have the advtantage (a bow to Boelcke http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) it's a magnificent airplane.

And the guns "feel" right now, too. I killed two FWs as I was returning home from a tank busting mission already low on ammo. They didn't blow up or disintegrate but they crashed after a lot of pieces flew off.

Sweet.

Now...

If we could just get napalm and HVARs strapped on them...both were in wide use by late 1944.

And, maybe, the P-47N (but we have to promise to fly it only in the Pacific).

When your best ride just got better, all that's left to do is smile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

SparrowThree
05-20-2004, 08:54 AM
To me, the post patch D27 feels like a pre patch D-10 with better visibility. Whether it was adjustment of the .50s or the DM, the guns seem to do more damage.

TheGozr
05-20-2004, 09:55 AM
very fun to fly the P47 now it's a pleasure and i'm happy that i'm sure we will se more of those babies fly.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

Zen--
05-20-2004, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
No joke?

LW is gonna be super-p1ssed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not me, I prefer flying against western AC and a well modelled P47 is something I would gladly fight against.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-

karost
05-20-2004, 10:15 AM
Me too, -Zen-
yesterday I nocked P-47 with 151/20 in G2 ( just lucky deflection shotting at engine room :P )

but now with Patch 2.01 look more cool .50 more harder and 151/20 is killer

I believe P-47 is faster , but I like to take my G2 over red base at 7000 meter and wait p-47 take off, then let see who is faster .... LOL
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!