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View Full Version : ACR Location: Hama, Syria



Saqaliba
09-06-2011, 07:05 PM
I believe that the location seen in the Gamescom/PAX demo is the city of Hama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama) (Hama Governorate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_Governorate), Syria).

There are a few reasons for this. The first is that I believe the Chariot chase takes place from Masyef (also in the Hama Governorate) and ends in the town of Hama. The second is that Hama is famous for its water-wheels (noria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noria)) which is depicted in the town of the game demo. It would be a good place for free-rome, because it looks like a decent size town and it once had a citadel in the heart of the town, which may be the citadel Ezio scales to get to Leandros.

Only last month was there a seige of Hama due to the 2011 Syrian uprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Syrian_uprising).

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8822/noria.jpg

http://www.whl.travel/data/whl/general/noria_hama.jpg

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4261/hamai.jpg

kriegerdesgottes
09-06-2011, 07:07 PM
hmm that is interesting. They didn't really say the name of the town they just said players would also be able to go to a small village outside of Masyaf. Thanks for posting this.

Saqaliba
09-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
hmm that is interesting. They didn't really say the name of the town they just said players would also be able to go to a small village outside of Masyaf. Thanks for posting this.

Well, this is a small village outside of Masyaf. Infact, the map I posted comes from a book called A Small Town in Syria: Ottoman Hama in 18th and 19th Centuries by James A. Reilly. Hama, and the rest of Syria, came under Ottoman rule from Constantinople in 1516.

rileypoole1234
09-06-2011, 07:33 PM
I thought it was a small village outside of Masayf in the mountains.

Saqaliba
09-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
I thought it was a small village outside of Masayf in the mountains.


...this is a small village outside of Masyaf.

Hama city and Masyaf are both in the Hama Governorate. This is a small village outside of Masyaf.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9052/mayafhama.jpg

kriegerdesgottes
09-06-2011, 08:18 PM
It certainly appears you are on to something here. My only question is why they refer to it as "A small town from the gamescom demo". when Hama is the fourth largest city in Syria. Maybe it was smaller 500 years ago but the city does seem to have been a major city even in biblical times.

Saqaliba
09-06-2011, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
My only question is why they refer to it as "A small town from the gamescom demo". when Hama is the fourth largest city in Syria. Maybe it was smaller 500 years ago but the city does seem to have been a major city even in biblical times.

Probably for the same reason this guy title his book 'A Small Town in Syria' when writing on Hama:

http://cc.pbsstatic.com/l/65/6065/9780820456065.jpg

Chances are it was alot smaller during the 16th century. If we consider that the Damascus, Jerusalem and Acre of Assassin's Creed are now a lot bigger due to the Industrial boom, then Hama could be the same. I'm sure they will be down-scaling its size in comparison to Constantinople, but the gameplay designer has already hinted that it will be big enough to free-rome.

kriegerdesgottes
09-06-2011, 09:07 PM
Yeah they did not say Hama was the city though but I do believe that it is now. And Hama was a major city even in those days but again I believe you're right that it was probably smaller back then.

Saqaliba
09-06-2011, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Yeah they did not say Hama was the city though but I do believe that it is now. And Hama was a major city even in those days but again I believe you're right that it was probably smaller back then.

The water-wheel is the major give-away. It looks exactly the same, check out the brickwork. I posted the image-cap of Ezio walking over the bridge towards the noria in my first post:

http://www.willgoto.com/images/Size3/Syria_Norias_of_Hama_9baf15a85be046e98957c9230c6fc 8a5.jpg

P.S. - I am plotting out major historical locations in Damascus, Jerusalem and Acre as we speak. Been doing quite a bit of research on these areas and it turns out there are quite alot of places they kept in the game that were there during the second Crusade. Can't wait to see what the third Crusade looks like when Altair travels to Constantinople.

PhiIs1618033
09-06-2011, 11:27 PM
Awesome find! Good job on that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Have you found anything else alike?

RzaRecta357
09-06-2011, 11:48 PM
Well, I think you obviously figured it out.

Good find brotha!!

Saqaliba
09-06-2011, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by PhiIs1618033...:
Awesome find! Good job on that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Have you found anything else alike?

Yes. And I am aslo working on the locations of the first Assassin's Creed which weren't documented like II & Brotherhood.

The cistern that Ezio falls into on the other Revelations game-trailer is most likely the Basilica Cistern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_Cistern) that lies underneath Turkey. It was built by Emperor Justinian I, and during the Ottomon occupation it was completely unknown to the Ottomons for at least one hundred years. They discovered the locals fishing from the floors into the cistern. Darby McDevitt made a hint to wanting to include this detail in Assassin's Creed Revelations, but it was left out. But I believe the Cistern itself may be actually where one of the keys is hidden. I also believe that Ubisoft rely on the TV show Cities of the Underworld to get their hidden 'crypt' locations. If so, another key may be hidden in the old Roman hippodrome which later Constantinople built over.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Yerebatan.jpg/800px-Yerebatan.jpg

LightRey
09-06-2011, 11:50 PM
This is pretty cool.

rileypoole1234
09-07-2011, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Saqaliba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
I thought it was a small village outside of Masayf in the mountains.


...this is a small village outside of Masyaf.

Hama city and Masyaf are both in the Hama Governorate. This is a small village outside of Masyaf.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9052/mayafhama.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant I thought it was an unnamed villge

LightRey
09-07-2011, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saqaliba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
I thought it was a small village outside of Masayf in the mountains.


...this is a small village outside of Masyaf.

Hama city and Masyaf are both in the Hama Governorate. This is a small village outside of Masyaf.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9052/mayafhama.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant I thought it was an unnamed villge </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There's no such thing. All villages have names.

Ulicies
09-07-2011, 02:03 PM
Good find! I salute you for your hard work at researching this. Thankfully the hobby of Assassin's Creed can be slightly educational along the roads of fiction.

LightRey
09-07-2011, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Ulicies:
Good find! I salute you for your hard work at researching this. Thankfully the hobby of Assassin's Creed can be slightly educational along the roads of fiction.
It has been so far. I've learned a lot about history from the games.

rileypoole1234
09-07-2011, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saqaliba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
I thought it was a small village outside of Masayf in the mountains.


...this is a small village outside of Masyaf.

Hama city and Masyaf are both in the Hama Governorate. This is a small village outside of Masyaf.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9052/mayafhama.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant I thought it was an unnamed villge </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There's no such thing. All villages have names. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know what I bloody meant. I thought it was the type of thing that was hidden away and nobody know's about it, so nobody know's the name of it. But whatever. This is good news because it means it'll be (probably) bigger.

LightRey
09-07-2011, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
You don't know what I bloody meant. I thought it was the type of thing that was hidden away and nobody know's about it, so nobody know's the name of it. But whatever. This is good news because it means it'll be (probably) bigger.
No such thing either. Villages (especially villages with the kinds of resources shown in the demo) depend on an economy. They need trade connections with the outside world (especially if they're in mountainous regions).

SixKeys
09-07-2011, 03:35 PM
I think you're being overly picky about Rileypoole's comment. I believe he meant he thought the village was made up by the devs just for the game's purposes, not necessarily based on a historically known village.

Jexx21
09-07-2011, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by SixKeys:
I think you're being overly picky about Rileypoole's comment. I believe he meant he thought the village was made up by the devs just for the game's purposes, not necessarily based on a historically known village.

I don't think Ubisoft would put in a made up village in Assassin's Creed. The biggest glare I have seen in something like that is Masyaf and that one other Assassin stronghold. Masyaf IRL isn't actually on a mountain, while to other one IRL is on a mountain, and looks similar to Masyaf in game.

kriegerdesgottes
09-07-2011, 06:02 PM
Speaking of things being made up. Did anyone ever figure out if Leandros was a historical figure at all? I can't find anything about him in Ottoman/Byzantine history but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

LightRey
09-08-2011, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Jexx21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SixKeys:
I think you're being overly picky about Rileypoole's comment. I believe he meant he thought the village was made up by the devs just for the game's purposes, not necessarily based on a historically known village.

I don't think Ubisoft would put in a made up village in Assassin's Creed. The biggest glare I have seen in something like that is Masyaf and that one other Assassin stronghold. Masyaf IRL isn't actually on a mountain, while to other one IRL is on a mountain, and looks similar to Masyaf in game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly. Basically every location in the games can be found in the real world.

Saqaliba
09-08-2011, 07:35 AM
Masyaf is at the base of a mounatin region called Jabal Bahra which Sinan al-Rashid (aka – al -Mualim) set many fortesses. This mountain range has gone under many names due to the various factions taking control of the region throuout history. Sometime the Franks (Crusader-Templars) from their fortress below Masyaf – the famous Krak des Chevaliers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak_des_Chevaliers) (it would be ashame not to see an appearance of this fortress in Assassin's Creed at some point)and at other times the Nusayirîs (Alawi). Anyway. Point being… The 'mountains' we see traveled in the chariot chase are these ranges. Now called: An-Nusayriyah Mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nusayriyah_Mountains%5DAn-Nusayriyah). Take a look at that link and you will see the strategic positioning that al-Maulim devised. It was a strategic position. The relics of those strongholds are still there. They are about 70km from the Syrian coast and the lower valley of the Orontes river which passes into Hama where we see the water-wheel bordering on the city. Masyaf is approximately 25 miles west of Hama (12 hours travel in those days). When the Isma’ili were disbanded many of them fled to Hama city –thus Hama itself proves as an Isma’ili refuge and thus the secret locations of the Assassin’s who would reside in this city.

SixKeys
09-08-2011, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
I don't think Ubisoft would put in a made up village in Assassin's Creed. The biggest glare I have seen in something like that is Masyaf and that one other Assassin stronghold. Masyaf IRL isn't actually on a mountain, while to other one IRL is on a mountain, and looks similar to Masyaf in game.
Exactly. Basically every location in the games can be found in the real world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Monteriggioni as a place exists, but not Ezio's Villa, which itself is like a small village. The devs take certain historical liberties in the name of the story sometimes, it's not that odd to think they'd make up a couple of locations just for plot purposes.

LightRey
09-08-2011, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by SixKeys:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
I don't think Ubisoft would put in a made up village in Assassin's Creed. The biggest glare I have seen in something like that is Masyaf and that one other Assassin stronghold. Masyaf IRL isn't actually on a mountain, while to other one IRL is on a mountain, and looks similar to Masyaf in game.
Exactly. Basically every location in the games can be found in the real world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Monteriggioni as a place exists, but not Ezio's Villa, which itself is like a small village. The devs take certain historical liberties in the name of the story sometimes, it's not that odd to think they'd make up a couple of locations just for plot purposes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mostly only structures are different. Every city, town and region is has a real-world equivalent.

SixKeys
09-08-2011, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Mostly only structures are different. Every city, town and region is has a real-world equivalent.

If we're simply talking about "this town kinda sorta looks like something that once existed", then of course everything will have a real-life equivalent. That doesn't mean they are actually based on real locations, more like inspired by. Which is why I think Rileypoole's original comment made perfect sense. The village we see in Revelations could have been a secret Templar hideout, hidden from the outside world, perhaps reminiscent of a real village that existed somewhere around the area during that time period, but not directly based on a particular historical location.

lukaszep
09-08-2011, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Speaking of things being made up. Did anyone ever figure out if Leandros was a historical figure at all? I can't find anything about him in Ottoman/Byzantine history but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

I remember them saying he was a royal bodyguard, and he can be found in the history books, he just doesn't have a recorded name.

LightRey
09-08-2011, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by SixKeys:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Mostly only structures are different. Every city, town and region is has a real-world equivalent.

If we're simply talking about "this town kinda sorta looks like something that once existed", then of course everything will have a real-life equivalent. That doesn't mean they are actually based on real locations, more like inspired by. Which is why I think Rileypoole's original comment made perfect sense. The village we see in Revelations could have been a secret Templar hideout, hidden from the outside world, perhaps reminiscent of a real village that existed somewhere around the area during that time period, but not directly based on a particular historical location. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wasn't referring specifically to the village, but rather every other location in the game. The fact that there's a village that quite well fits the description of what we can see in the demo makes it quite likely that that actually is the same location. Name one city, town or region in the games that doesn't have a real-life equivalent.

SixKeys
09-08-2011, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Name one city, town or region in the games that doesn't have a real-life equivalent.

Ezio's villa.

Jexx21
09-08-2011, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by SixKeys:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Name one city, town or region in the games that doesn't have a real-life equivalent.

Ezio's villa. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't a city, town, or region. It's a building in a town.

This is the town's real life counterpart.

http://www.accommodationintuscany.com/tuscany-accommodation/monteriggioni2326/images/monteriggionicastle.jpg

kriegerdesgottes
09-08-2011, 05:23 PM
Monteriggioni? Because that is a real place.

Jexx21
09-08-2011, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Monteriggioni? Because that is a real place.

Yea, it's Monteriggioni. Which isn't made up, nor is it's Ezio's villa.

Anyway, Monteriggioni, Tiber Island, and Masyaf all aren't actually true to their real life counterparts, so what does it matter? They're still real places.

kriegerdesgottes
09-08-2011, 05:37 PM
Also they would have looked totally different 500 years ago.

SixKeys
09-08-2011, 06:18 PM
I know Monteriggioni is a real place. My point was that Ubi created a village that wasn't entirely based on a real location, they merely took elements from one. This whole discussion started because some people were claiming the devs would never put places in the game that never existed in RL. The existence of certain places like the villa, certain Romulus lairs or assassin tombs proves that is a false assumption. It doesn't matter if they have a "real life counterpart", the point is they don't really exist.

And now I'm done with this topic.

Jexx21
09-08-2011, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by SixKeys:
I know Monteriggioni is a real place. My point was that Ubi created a village that wasn't entirely based on a real location, they merely took elements from one. This whole discussion started because some people were claiming the devs would never put places in the game that never existed in RL. The existence of certain places like the villa, certain Romulus lairs or assassin tombs proves that is a false assumption. It doesn't matter if they have a "real life counterpart", the point is they don't really exist.

And now I'm done with this topic.

The funny thing is, that the people saying that (which includes me) never said that it was going to be exactly the same.

We said it's what they are based off of it.

twenty_glyphs
09-08-2011, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by SixKeys:
I know Monteriggioni is a real place. My point was that Ubi created a village that wasn't entirely based on a real location, they merely took elements from one. This whole discussion started because some people were claiming the devs would never put places in the game that never existed in RL. The existence of certain places like the villa, certain Romulus lairs or assassin tombs proves that is a false assumption. It doesn't matter if they have a "real life counterpart", the point is they don't really exist.

And now I'm done with this topic.

I don't want to fuel the argument, but all of the places you mention are real life locations. They didn't create a village, Monterrigioni IS the village. They just created a fiction around it and added the villa, which is simply the residence that the Auditore family owns, not the entire town. All of the Assassin Tombs and Lairs of Romulus are based on real life locations. Many of them are inside churches or catacombs that run under those churches that may or may not exist. The House of Nero was really covered over with dirt and then had baths built on top of it, just as Ezio discovers it. The catacombs that you enter at the pyramid in Brotherhood are real catacombs that run in that part of Rome, and even include an underground church similar to the one depicted in the game. Ubisoft may invent buildings like the Tiber Island hideout or certain tunnels, but they have not invented whole towns from nothing so far. Even the Templar city in Cappadocia is based on the real city of Derinkuyu, which you can see in the Making of the Encyclopedia video.

LightRey
09-09-2011, 12:10 AM
Thank you all for responding guys. You've done my work for me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

SevketErhat
09-09-2011, 01:16 AM
Very useful information in this thread. Great work