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Floyd31241986
03-13-2008, 08:16 PM
Before I started air combat I went though "A Nugget's Guide To Getting Off The Ground" located on this forum. Got the basics on prop pitch and engine management. So I started a dynamic campaign today and I noticed once I got into combat. That the enemy was able to gain altitude on me easly and while I would attempt to catch up to them. I could never reach there altitude as fast as they were and I found myself chasing them most of the time until. The friendly AI would just come out of nowhere and destroy the enemy. Does anyone have any tips on gaining altitude fast once the enemy has a higher advantage and air combat in general. Thanks

VW-IceFire
03-13-2008, 09:09 PM
The AI is pretty much perfect with its engine management so it manages to climb a bit faster than most humans are capable of. That said its not drastically different than online against some of the better pilots.

The key is to enter the battle with altitude/energy superiority. If they have it then you're at a disadvantage. The best thing you can do at that point is leave combat, climb, and rejoin the battle from a position of advantage. The only other option is to force the enemy to reduce their energy advantage and bring them on to par or less than you. That is much harder to do and even I struggle with even the concepts of trying to force someone into a position like that.

M_Gunz
03-13-2008, 09:19 PM
If you ever do get the drop on the AI then don't linger close behind to take your shots,
in seconds past when you get to some range perhaps 200-300m he will react and evade.
But if you can zoom on him then you will have those seconds to fire before he jinks.
Crossing his path at an angle, you don't even have to be faster, just you be a good shot!

Other than that just watch what they do every time you get near esp from behind and the
patterns will maybe become clear.

If you fly 109F's against early VVS they should not have performance advantage. They get
that later in the campaign!

Hkuusela
03-14-2008, 02:03 AM
And don't bother fighting superior or equal enemy planes. The perfectly flying AI will just fly away the minute you gain any kind of advantage and you'll end up chasing the b*****d to the ionosphere. Endlessly. No fun.

flyingloon
03-14-2008, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
If you ever do get the drop on the AI then don't linger close behind to take your shots,
in seconds past when you get to some range perhaps 200-300m he will react and evade.
But if you can zoom on him then you will have those seconds to fire before he jinks.
Crossing his path at an angle, you don't even have to be faster, just you be a good shot!

Other than that just watch what they do every time you get near esp from behind and the
patterns will maybe become clear.

If you fly 109F's against early VVS they should not have performance advantage. They get
that later in the campaign!
i've found that the AI do their rolling evasion thing when approached from dead 6, and when you close to between 100-50m out from whatever your gun convergence is set at. bounces and off-angle slashing attacks they are not so good at pre-empting, but do a classic low 6 BnZ and they'll "see" you at the critical point.

Chris0382
03-14-2008, 04:38 AM
Everything off except for vunerability. Realistic gunnery on.

DKoor
03-14-2008, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by Hkuusela:
And don't bother fighting superior or equal enemy planes. The perfectly flying AI will just fly away the minute you gain any kind of advantage and you'll end up chasing the b*****d to the ionosphere. Endlessly. No fun. +1

That's why it is most advisable to just outturn them and shot them down.
Yes no worries - you can outturn/outmaneuver ace Ai Spitfire in your FW-190 no prob.
That speaks volumes.

Hkuusela
03-14-2008, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hkuusela:
And don't bother fighting superior or equal enemy planes. The perfectly flying AI will just fly away the minute you gain any kind of advantage and you'll end up chasing the b*****d to the ionosphere. Endlessly. No fun. +1

That's why it is most advisable to just outturn them and shot them down.
Yes no worries - you can outturn/outmaneuver ace Ai Spitfire in your FW-190 no prob.
That speaks volumes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Absolutely. The most important thing is to have the speed advantage (as it naturally is in RL too...) so that the AI can't go into his climb away routine.

I can take on four AI MkII (?) Spits in a G2 and dogfight the cr*p out of them. Speaks volumes.

SeaFireLIV
03-14-2008, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Floyd31241986:
Before I started air combat I went though "A Nugget's Guide To Getting Off The Ground" located on this forum. Got the basics on prop pitch and engine management. So I started a dynamic campaign today and I noticed once I got into combat. That the enemy was able to gain altitude on me easly and while I would attempt to catch up to them. I could never reach there altitude as fast as they were and I found myself chasing them most of the time until. The friendly AI would just come out of nowhere and destroy the enemy. Does anyone have any tips on gaining altitude fast once the enemy has a higher advantage and air combat in general. Thanks

Some of the advice here is really bad.

"And don't bother fighting superior or equal enemy planes. The perfectly flying AI will just fly away the minute you gain any kind of advantage and you'll end up chasing the b*****d to the ionosphere. Endlessly. No fun."

In reality, you would be ill-advised to fight superior planes anyway, so why make it look like some kind of AI fault?

I am flying an i16 and frequently meet superior 109s. often I must runaway. If I get on a 109s tail he extends and runs away - as he should. Go online, see how many 109, 190 Human pilots will not do the same. Every one of them will!

If you`re in an inferior plane you must use that plane`s advantage (in the case of an i16 or Spit) outturn the AI, when he overshoots you, quickly send bullets into him. just smoking him a little is ofetn enough to put him out of the fight. If there are an equal number of enemy planes to friendly you have a chance. once numbers start thining. Go home-fast and call for support from the Tower.

Fighting equal planes is not a problem, if you learn how to use your aircraft!

"Everything off except for vunerability. Realistic gunnery on."

Wrong. and silly.

When trying to catch aircraft, again, it depends what they and you have. You can TRIM your plane up for faster climb rate, but if he keeps above you, forget it. Head low and hope he comes for you. If he does, use you turn on him and catch him now he`s low.

Again. Online, you`ll meet fighters who are experts are keeping above you and staying away.

As for AI catching the enemy before you, some will some won`t. You`re still new to this, but I often catch the enemy along with the friendly AI and the biggest problem for me is avoiding AI snatching my kill, though it doesn`t bother me too much as long as our side win.

Once you gain rank and can command, order AI to stay with you and climb to a favourable height for engagement. even in ferior planes a height advantage can turn the tables.


Keep at, you`ll improve, start to catch up and they`ll be plenty of times when you`ll have more than your fair share of enemies to fight.

Don`t let negative comments defeat you before you`ve even really tried like some others already have!

crucislancer
03-14-2008, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Some of the advice here is really bad.
---------------------------------------------
Don`t let negative comments defeat you before you`ve even really tried like some others already have!

+1

Hkuusela
03-14-2008, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Some of the advice here is really bad.

"And don't bother fighting superior or equal enemy planes. The perfectly flying AI will just fly away the minute you gain any kind of advantage and you'll end up chasing the b*****d to the ionosphere. Endlessly. No fun."

In reality, you would be ill-advised to fight superior planes anyway, so why make it look like some kind of AI fault?
A couple of things, if you please:

1. So what you are saying is, that me saying that one should not fight superior planes is bad advice? That's what you say right up first.

2. Could you please quote the part of my message where I say, that the AI running away is an AI fault.

3. In reality, you fight what you have to. You can not choose to run away just because you have an inferior plane.

4. What I actually said was, that flying after an AI plane indefinately, with no hope of catching it, is boring to the extreme. If you wish to disagree, we just have different views on what is fun and what is not.

R_Target
03-14-2008, 09:10 AM
When the AI bandit starts his Jacob's Ladder routine, break off and extend. He'll come back for you.

DKoor
03-14-2008, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Floyd31241986:
Before I started air combat I went though "A Nugget's Guide To Getting Off The Ground" located on this forum. Got the basics on prop pitch and engine management. So I started a dynamic campaign today and I noticed once I got into combat. That the enemy was able to gain altitude on me easly and while I would attempt to catch up to them. I could never reach there altitude as fast as they were and I found myself chasing them most of the time until. The friendly AI would just come out of nowhere and destroy the enemy. Does anyone have any tips on gaining altitude fast once the enemy has a higher advantage and air combat in general. Thanks BTW check out few tracks where I fought 4 ace ai fighters http://www.esnips.com/web/il2 , there is even one P-51 vs 6 JAAF ace ai fighters.

One track is worth 1000k words.

Floyd31241986
03-14-2008, 01:31 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys! Oh and thanks Dkoor for the tracks, impressive stuff.

freakyre33
03-14-2008, 03:40 PM
Mguns:If you ever do get the drop on the AI then don't linger close behind to take your shots,
in seconds past when you get to some range perhaps 200-300m he will react and evade.
But if you can zoom on him then you will have those seconds to fire before he jinks.
Crossing his path at an angle, you don't even have to be faster, just you be a good shot!



lol and when you do get behind just untill you get better experienced, do the "spray and pray deal" give enough lead on the target and lets the bullet fly. I would put unlimited ammo on untill you gain experience, just because it will allow you to judge your lead time, so then in the future when you have limited ammo, u won't need as many shots for them to hit home, and you be wasting bullets, Make sure your fairly close though, you can't expect to spray in pray and nock the target down with a few second burst from 500 or 700 mm away.

K_Freddie
03-14-2008, 04:06 PM
Here's another track playing around on a server.. Trackfile (2.6MB - V4.08M) (http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Movies/quick0004.ntrk)

The short story is ..
- Pick a plane that you like (eventually), and get to know this plane inside out.
- play against 'ace' AI and when they become 'predictable' go onto the servers.
- it advisable to play 'full cpit' from the start. You can 'feel' the aircraft better and you SA (situational awareness) improves greatly.
- Most importantly ... IMAGINATION ... I cannot over-emphasize this point. With it you will beat any 'E-maniac', you will beat any superior aircraft.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
- and of course .. PRACTISE A LOT.... and a lot more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Welcome
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

M_Gunz
03-14-2008, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by freakyre33:
Mguns:If you ever do get the drop on the AI then don't linger close behind to take your shots,
in seconds past when you get to some range perhaps 200-300m he will react and evade.
But if you can zoom on him then you will have those seconds to fire before he jinks.
Crossing his path at an angle, you don't even have to be faster, just you be a good shot!



lol and when you do get behind just untill you get better experienced, do the "spray and pray deal" give enough lead on the target and lets the bullet fly. I would put unlimited ammo on untill you gain experience, just because it will allow you to judge your lead time, so then in the future when you have limited ammo, u won't need as many shots for them to hit home, and you be wasting bullets, Make sure your fairly close though, you can't expect to spray in pray and nock the target down with a few second burst from 500 or 700 mm away.

Oh, now I lack experience!

Follow me here, this has even worked in Yak 7b for me. Come in with high delta-V which you
can get through deflection alone, fire the first ranging shots from 400 to 500m which when
you have a high closure rate is effectively LESS RANGE if you bother to work out speeds and
timing as I did back in 2002 (I'm such a noob!) and for sure have you convergence set to at
least 300m. From that first ranging shot you have a very few seconds to make any corrections
to aim and try to disable or kill your opponent which with deflection and shooting for the
engine and cockpit (as opposed to spray and pray) you have a very good chance given the near
universal lack of side armor on cockpits. You can get in one good burst of a second or so
which is plenty before you have to change course to keep from ramming.

That is NOT sitting back at 500m and spraying bullets. Sorry if you do not understand BnZ,
I've made it work THOUSANDS of times. But you sit back and chip away at that seat armor,
it works eventually.

If you think that I'll be closing in on a target at 50 to 100+ m/s closure and wait to under
200m range to start trigger then you've got the cognition or lack of experience problem.

Crossing someone's turn circle can generate very high closure despite speed differences not
being high or even being negative. I want at least TWO FULL SECONDS to adjust aim and fire
for effect before I have to veer off and the the speeds I strike that means long down to
medium range shooting. If that ain't you bag then good for you but it don't make me noob.

So I'll say it AGAIN. The AI takes a few seconds to act AFTER you get just so close and if
you are already ranged and firing BY THEN he will not jink out of your fire in time. How well
you shoot is another matter but it can be improved with practice.

K_Freddie
03-14-2008, 05:06 PM
Floyd31241986 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is 'Mr. Know-it-alls' and EGO's.
You'll find a lot here.

They're just a bunch of Poofdahs slapping each other with their feather dusters.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ignore the technical terms... they mean nothing...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

M_Gunz
03-14-2008, 05:38 PM
Ignore the technical terms... they mean nothing...

To you.

I just shared some information and got told I can't do what I've done.
That's wonderful, I say I have and I say how and that gets me other insults.

I'm holding up fingers, guess how many?

Hkuusela
03-14-2008, 05:42 PM
I think he's just saying that it is more important to know how to do it, not what it's called...

Chris0382
03-14-2008, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Ignore the technical terms... they mean nothing...

To you.

I just shared some information and got told I can't do what I've done.
That's wonderful, I say I have and I say how and that gets me other insults.

I'm holding up fingers, guess how many?

Dont feel too bad Gunz. Some people forget its a game and get all hyperheaded and expert minded about it. They are quick to criticize without being broad minded not realizing its all comes down to pixels in a computer game. Makes em feel like king of the hill.

SeaFireLIV
03-14-2008, 06:38 PM
The problem here is similar to much I`ve seen when I first came here...

Rather than simply give the thread poster useful information that will help him get the most out of the sim, some use his thread as an excuse to vent their personal little hates of it and don`t care if they put the guy off or lead him wrong in the process.

Give the guy correct information that helps and stay to the point.

Hkuusela
03-15-2008, 04:18 AM
Oh, one more thing. Don't fight ace or veteran AI if avoidable. They will shoot you between the eyes in head on passes pretty much every time. I don't think they are any more sophisticated otherwise, but their shooting accuracy is pretty devastating and will make getting in to dogfighting or sensible energy fighting very difficult. You are most often dead in the merge, that is always head on in this game against AI.

K_Freddie
03-15-2008, 06:35 AM
It's a joke, mannnnn!!!! that's why I put a laughing smiley in. I added a bit of 'humor' as this thread was already going down.

... and Hkuusela is right. I was doing all the so 'called' moves before I knew what the names were.. it's just not that important. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Relax a bit...

M_Gunz
03-15-2008, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The problem here is similar to much I`ve seen when I first came here...

Rather than simply give the thread poster useful information that will help him get the most out of the sim, some use his thread as an excuse to vent their personal little hates of it and don`t care if they put the guy off or lead him wrong in the process.

Give the guy correct information that helps and stay to the point.

I really think I did! On a BnZ converge you can go from 400-500m out to inside 200m in very
few seconds. Wait to shoot until under 200m and you've got no time to avoid ramming much less
lining up a useful exit. I'm no Erich Hartmann, he shot deflection from really close!

The whole strategy there for me is crossing the line where the AI knows you're there no matter
that you are behind and trying to cripple or kill him before those few seconds before he jinks
are up.

I've sneaked up on them before and right about 200m while lining up the old perfect shot the
AI goes defensive. Don't take the time, you might hit him before he does. My way is to get
in fast, be shooting deflection and correcting aim before he goes super-active on me. It's
been part of my gunnery practice since mid-2002 but of course I'm an inexperienced noob! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

SeaFireLIV
03-15-2008, 07:10 PM
I wasn`t really refering to you, Gunz.

mortoma
03-15-2008, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Hkuusela:
Oh, one more thing. Don't fight ace or veteran AI if avoidable. They will shoot you between the eyes in head on passes pretty much every time. I don't think they are any more sophisticated otherwise, but their shooting accuracy is pretty devastating and will make getting in to dogfighting or sensible energy fighting very difficult. You are most often dead in the merge, that is always head on in this game against AI. I fly against Veteran and Acs all the time and for years since this sim was in demo and I have no trouble with the AI. Once you have spent thousands of dogfights getting accustomed to how they fly and fight, they are almost no challenge. Out of 100 sorties, I would say I only get shot down by the AI maybe once or twice. I'd say the odds pretty much favor me and I fly against Ace and Veteran most of the time due to the way I set up my Dgen files by editing them to my liking. I have been doing that for years too.

JtD
03-16-2008, 12:09 AM
I know when I stopped flying campaigns the victory list in the briefing had gotten so long it made the briefing laggy. Probably were around 600 kills. And I never got any further than 1943.

I hardly ever flew on autopilot, I usually climbed above the normal flying height and engaged enemies with the E advantage. I always found it easy to maintain. I probably need to add that I flew with externals on and would use the additional information to gain some extra advantages. I'd almost always fight in the vertical.

So enter fights with an advantage and practice. That's about all you need.

Maico_249th
03-16-2008, 01:39 AM
I will keep this short. The rules of Air Combat dictate; Never climb up to meet the enemy directly. You are a sitting duck while doing so.

Extend (run away) and come back with an altitude advantage. If you are cought by an enemy with an altitude advantage, DO NOT climb. Keep your speed up so you can manuver when he fires.

Hkuusela
03-16-2008, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hkuusela:
Oh, one more thing. Don't fight ace or veteran AI if avoidable. They will shoot you between the eyes in head on passes pretty much every time. I don't think they are any more sophisticated otherwise, but their shooting accuracy is pretty devastating and will make getting in to dogfighting or sensible energy fighting very difficult. You are most often dead in the merge, that is always head on in this game against AI. I fly against Veteran and Acs all the time and for years since this sim was in demo and I have no trouble with the AI. Once you have spent thousands of dogfights getting accustomed to how they fly and fight, they are almost no challenge. Out of 100 sorties, I would say I only get shot down by the AI maybe once or twice. I'd say the odds pretty much favor me and I fly against Ace and Veteran most of the time due to the way I set up my Dgen files by editing them to my liking. I have been doing that for years too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Like I said, the thing that really changes with AI skill, is the shooting accuracy. In the first head on pass, which is unavoidable, you tend to get killed because of that. Ace AI does not IMO fly any smarter. So I don't think it is wise for a newbeginner to go against aces if it means you main focus being in avoiding death in the first head on pass. And as it is interesting to read about what you've done for years, we are still talking about a guy who's just starting, right?

Bremspropeller
03-16-2008, 06:17 AM
Once you've been tusseling around with the AI for some time, you'll see that the AI's behaviour is quite predictable.

You can break their entire fighting-routinte down into a few "moves" and tricks...

- They "feel" your crosshair on their plane. As soon as you are within 200m and you're pointing your sight onto the AI-fighter, he'll start to take evasive actions.

- That usually is either a series of barrel-rolls, or a split-S.

- The AI runs on perfect engine parametres. They will ALWAYS have more power than you.
The can zoom by you, though they might have an inferriour E-state.
They can balance their control-inputs and the engine/ prop-torque. They'll stand in the air, hanging on the airscrew...

- They can't hit a football-field once it starts turning. That is still true for vet and ace AI.
The only thing they are good at is defelction-shooting...that includes head-ons.


Once you get a feeling for the AI, you'll find they're easy to defeat if you stick to a few rules that are basicly mentiones by some posters above me.

Klemm.co
03-18-2008, 03:36 AM
Bremspropeller, you forgot some things/ got some things wrong with the AI.
The AI always does some things that the player is only able to do with most difficulty options switches off or not at all.
These include but are not limited to:
- No engine overheat, ever.
- Perfect SA, they got perfect all-round vision all the time.
- Because of that they can see through their engine and wings and back of the plane, basically their own plane doesn't exist for them
- They fly with icons on max range and can always see them. If you're in range, the see you, no matter where you are.
- The AI never stalls. It seems to me that they don't even fly, they just move through the air to their liking.
- NO engine torque, no need to correct for roll of the airplane on application of rudder. Have you ever watched when they fly with sideslip for ages there is NO deflection of the ailerons whatsoever?
- Control surfaces inputs don't slow them down and only affect the axis the control surface is supposed to move.

To reiterate the whole thing: they fly like when i fly when i have ALL difficulty options switched off. Their planes are only moved about, they don't even fly. Acceleration/deceleration and start/landing procedures and hammerhead-behaviour prove this.

So in the end, the flight model of the AI seems pretty poor and old. The tactical routines are even worse. I know all this now only after playing the game for four years, but recently it's become plainly obvious to me. Offline has become pretty much boring, everything is predictable, nothing new, nothing ever changes.
Little graphic gimmicks like some guns being shot off of airplanes are nice but bothing in comparison to the huge faults of the AI.

/RANT OVER

DKoor
03-18-2008, 08:39 AM
+1

On top of that they are "unable" to ruin their engines with bad settings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
In one of the tests I did some time ago I dived vertically 109K from high altitude at full speed and somewhere around 2-3000m alt engaged autopilot.
109K piloted by autopilot pulled up from near vertical dive at speeds over 950km/h TAS.
Suffice is to say 109K didn't lose any part of the airframe which is impossible when it's piloted by human.
In any case it was interesting few tests... if anyone is interested to see the tracks it may be downloaded here (http://www.esnips.com/doc/3f0ec0b2-deff-4a34-aec3-567c57b72c96/AiCheatPack).

WOLFMondo
03-18-2008, 08:56 AM
+1!

Thats one of my main complaints about IL2 AI, the fact they take no structure damage from stress.

fresshness2001
03-18-2008, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Hkuusela:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Some of the advice here is really bad.

"And don't bother fighting superior or equal enemy planes. The perfectly flying AI will just fly away the minute you gain any kind of advantage and you'll end up chasing the b*****d to the ionosphere. Endlessly. No fun."

In reality, you would be ill-advised to fight superior planes anyway, so why make it look like some kind of AI fault?
A couple of things, if you please:

1. So what you are saying is, that me saying that one should not fight superior planes is bad advice? That's what you say right up first.

2. Could you please quote the part of my message where I say, that the AI running away is an AI fault.

3. In reality, you fight what you have to. You can not choose to run away just because you have an inferior plane.

4. What I actually said was, that flying after an AI plane indefinately, with no hope of catching it, is boring to the extreme. If you wish to disagree, we just have different views on what is fun and what is not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think you are absolutely right here.

+ the fact that AI planes are not 'subject' to the same flight model you are 'subject' to in your plane. That's an important thing to know.

M_Gunz
03-18-2008, 11:01 AM
Especially seeing as how there's only one FM engine and one set of planes data, what code is
the AI running then?

They control perfectly, the trim perfectly and they never mismanage the engine or prop.
That's enough for all the things I've seen. Do they use CEM is doubtful just to save frames.

I've seen posted where not being able to catch up with your AI flight is "proof" of special
AI FM but I don't buy that since I catch up with my flights before waypoint.

Just be happy the AI has very limited intelligence; perfect pilots and some deadeye shooters
yes, but not good tacticians.

R_Target
03-18-2008, 11:28 AM
Giving the AI a 3:1 numerical advantage keeps it spicy too. Also, with Mission Mate or UQMG (or FMB for that matter), you can mix up the skill levels within a flight of four so you never know what you're up against.

MOH_MADMAN
03-18-2008, 11:36 AM
stay high, make them turn twice what you do, get them to chase you(while u maintain E superiority and space to maneuver), not u chase them, then you can one side them and start up the baggin.
make sure you dont fixate on one plane, make pass, hit or miss, zoom back up to establish a new target.

thefruitbat
03-18-2008, 01:53 PM
The way i see it,

1) the ai dont suffer dive speed problems like us, a zero would still be on your tail, long after he should of broken up.

2) they don't suffer overheat.

3) they jink just before you get to convergangce range, unless your closure speed is v high, i think if your doing over 600kph ias your ok.

4) giving the ace ai a chance to shoot you, he will.

However, that said, ace ai are still much easier to shoot down than a merely competant human online, because 1 on 1 or even 1 v 2, its still pretty easy not to give them a shot. And in all honesty, if i go up against 4 ace ai, i should get shot down.

I have very little problem shooting the ai down, regardless of skill, unless my SA can't keep up, ie outnumbered at least 3-1. The hardest part is the merge, just go guns defense lead pursuit turn, job done.

Whilst the ai exibit these 'plus traits', they sure exibit some 'minus traits' too, like not being able to turn, not climbing at optimum climb speeds, flying into the ground, and at anything below veteran, not being able to shoot a slight deflection curve, and being **** in the vertical full stop.

The way i see it, its simply because ai isn't as good as humans, so it had to be balanced out to some degree, otherwise it would just be a turkey shoot...

Flying into combat zones with a height advantage, and not getting sucked into prolonged dogfights, knowing your planes, managing your e, works just as well against the ai as people, you just have to except that they have strenghs and weaknesses, and fly with those in mind, and exploit them.

To be honest, once you do learn these, it does take away some of the fun flying against the ai, and it becomes more like gunnery/SA pratice, but hey, i still like it.

just my 2 cents

fruitbat

DKoor
03-18-2008, 02:42 PM
Ai Zeros give one of the best runs for your money too.
IMHO one of the best if not the best Ai opponent (in terms of Ai pilot skill/aircraft capability) you can face in game.
Nice for practicing, sharpening gunnery skills etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thefruitbat
03-18-2008, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Ai Zeros give one of the best runs for your money too.
IMHO one of the best if not the best Ai opponent (in terms of Ai pilot skill/aircraft capability) you can face in game.
Nice for practicing, sharpening gunnery skills etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

+1 lol, because they turn nasty, even when not to there full potential!!!

Hey Kuna/Dkoor, your tracks taught me much, back in the day, always liked looking at your stuff. Saying that though, i can remember watching a track of you, e4 v 4 ace i16, and damn it i spent ages doing it myself lol. the worst thing was, i always died after getting 2, and being in a situation i knew i could do, even with e dissadvantage http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif And i thought you were lucky in your track http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Back to thread, in game, i always find that a climb advantage is much easier to fight with, than a speed advantage. That is to say, it is much harder to translate speed into a shooting oportunity, than climb.

I don't know if this is true to life or not, and even if it is, i would still take speed in real life, as in game, because you can ALWAYS get away, with a bit of seperation, and i think this is much undervalued by us game players.

cheers fruitbat

DKoor
03-18-2008, 04:28 PM
Eh... good old days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MB_Avro_UK
03-18-2008, 06:10 PM
Hi all,

In a co-op I was flying a Me 262.There was an AI La 7 about 2 kms behind me and I made a shallow dive at full throttle. I reached max speed but the La was still closing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I ended up performing a half role and pulling through to escape! The La didn't follow me.

Offline I have been outclimbed by an il2 whilst flying a 109.

No tracks.

But this was a couple of years ago and maybe subsequent patches have changed this.


I'm not an expert but have been online and offline for the past 6 years.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

FeiHu
03-18-2008, 08:56 PM
The AI are better than you.Learn your airplane.Use prop pitch,mixture,cowl flaps,turbocharger to your advantage.Understand that if you take the fight into the vertical,you must kill or wind up stalled out and a sitting duck.Use flaps and landing gear to reduce airspeed when nessary to get the angle on your advisary.Stay above your enemy at all times if possible!AIRSPEED,ALTITUDE,or BRAINS;you always need at least two!!!!!!! This is my opinion,like a**holes,everybody has one! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
03-18-2008, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by FeiHu:
Understand that if you take the fight into the vertical,you must kill or wind up stalled out and a sitting duck.

You can take a fight into the vertical without going into a hammerhead. Just getting off the
horizontal; as in yoyo, wingover, split-S, and many other moves is "using the vertical".

Bearcat99
03-18-2008, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Floyd31241986:
Before I started air combat I went though "A Nugget's Guide To Getting Off The Ground" located on this forum. Got the basics on prop pitch and engine management. So I started a dynamic campaign today and I noticed once I got into combat. That the enemy was able to gain altitude on me easly and while I would attempt to catch up to them. I could never reach there altitude as fast as they were and I found myself chasing them most of the time until. The friendly AI would just come out of nowhere and destroy the enemy. Does anyone have any tips on gaining altitude fast once the enemy has a higher advantage and air combat in general. Thanks

I would say practice more... I dunno.. maybe it's me but I have been flying in this sim since 2002.. and I am still learning new stuff... IMO the bets thing you can do is practice your gunnery so that first shot can do the most damage...often you don't get that second one...

The AI as good as it is is still one of the more frustrating aspects of this sim at least for me.

M_Gunz
03-19-2008, 07:58 AM
In the mid-90's with single-player only the Dynamix sims AoTP and AoE had AI that cheated
by actually being moved extra where the player wasn't looking. They were almost challenging
after a while.

mortoma
03-19-2008, 10:08 AM
The AI are not all that hot once you are onto their deficiencies. One simple trick that I use is to turn against them even if I'm in a plane that does not turn well. They will turn after you but can't seem to turn in any given plane as hard as it can turn, but only about 65% as hard as the plane will actually turn. Plus, they can't pull enough to get any lead, so their bullets will usually fall behind your tail and miss. Take advantage of them not be able to pull lead pursuit, then after about three or four circles, they will give up. Then you can easily get their tail yourself.

FeiHu
03-19-2008, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FeiHu:
Understand that if you take the fight into the vertical,you must kill or wind up stalled out and a sitting duck.

You can take a fight into the vertical without going into a hammerhead. Just getting off the
horizontal; as in yoyo, wingover, split-S, and many other moves is "using the vertical". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sigh.....Yes I can take the fight any direction I choose because I pay attention.I use several"moves",am familar with several planes.I know my limitations.Someone new asked questions.I gave answers I thought would be helpful to a rookie.After a few drinks I may have been a bit mellow dramatic.If I have led anyone astray,I am to blame.My appoligies to all.

M_Gunz
03-20-2008, 02:26 AM
Hey, I didn't know that you knew. Nothing against you, just that those who don't know should
not read about taking the fight into the vertical as only going straight up to stall is all.
And we do have a lot of people who don't know judging by posts. There's a lot we all do
without knowing the names too which is very good. I learned a lot of the terms in 98 and then
spent the $35 on a copy of Fighter Combat to learn even more, more than I remember!

DuxCorvan
03-20-2008, 04:47 PM
"Perfect management, do this, do that, blah blah blah"

Listen: no avail. The AI in this game CHEATS big time, and sucks in any other aspect. It cheats so blatantly it takes much fun and immersion from the gaming experience.

Just go to the difficulty settings and switch off 'overheating' and 'spins', and then, you may have a good chance against those cheating sucking mofos, cheating on almost equal terms -minus the unlimited speed, never structurally failing dives they'll still do.

Just don't forget to enable the hard settings again when online, for it is more enjoyable and immersive that way.

FeiHu
03-20-2008, 07:37 PM
Sorry M_Gunz,I wasn't offended http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hey Dux,I also feel the AI has a great advantage over us,but if I fight them with everything turned on,when I do go online,it helps me to out fly some of the others.Just my opinion once again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif