PDA

View Full Version : The most useless crew member in the virtual sky.



idonno
06-26-2005, 03:32 PM
http://www.geocities.com/idonno418/Pictures/this_guy.JPG


Is it too much to ask to be able to move to this position and get a look at my six as I can with the gunner positions?

Would he really just sit there and watch certain death approaching, and not say something, anything, to the pilot? Of course the mute gunners do it all the time, but at lest they can fight back, and when they do start shooting, you know you might want to consider the possibility that there's a bad guy behind you.

VW-IceFire
06-26-2005, 03:40 PM
I guess there wasn't time to model the position back there. We've been told before that we wouldn't get aircraft because they didn't have the other positions modeled...lets not make a huge issue of this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like the Beaufighter no matter what.

But it'd be nice if he could call out bandits and break left or right stuff.

AviationArtist
06-26-2005, 03:51 PM
~S~ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Agree 100% on this one. Even just a verbal warning would be something. As you say, the guy wouldn't sit there in total silence.

Unless of course he got posted to mime school instead of radio school by mistake by the air force http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

What about any armament options for this position? Was this purely an observation post, or were there versions of the Beau that were armed, or even field mods to add a rearward defence capability?

F_vonIzabelin
06-26-2005, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I guess there wasn't time to model the position back there. We've been told before that we wouldn't get aircraft because they didn't have the other positions modeled...lets not make a huge issue of this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like the Beaufighter no matter what.

But it'd be nice if he could call out bandits and break left or right stuff.

yes, as even Aces over Pacific, a 1991-92 vintage sim, had the gunner calling break left, right, but this takes to much PC power, be sure, to implement here:P

idonno
06-26-2005, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by AviationArtist:
Unless of course he got posted to mime school instead of radio school by mistake by the air force http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

LOL!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I can see him now. Back there frantically trying to pantomime; LOOK OUT! WERE GONNA DIE! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! WHY ARE YOU STILL FLYING STRAIGHT AND LEVEL?! LISTEN TO ME!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Stupid mime training. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

AviationArtist
06-26-2005, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by idonno:LOL!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I can see him now. Back there frantically trying to pantomime; LOOK OUT! WERE GONNA DIE! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! WHY ARE YOU STILL FLYING STRAIGHT AND LEVEL?! LISTEN TO ME!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Stupid mime training. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I can imagine.... that wide eyed innocent look peering out from behind the goggles, the flower on an unfeasibly long stalk protuding out the side of his flying helmet... his black & white horizontal striped life vest...and white gloves.

Ha!!! Can you imagine the scene, a mime trying to get out of the burning cockpit with a jammed canopy..... doing that hand walking motion through the air seeking an exit, and the flames licking higher & higher... and still he has that blank look on his face! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

joeap
06-26-2005, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by F_vonIzabelin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I guess there wasn't time to model the position back there. We've been told before that we wouldn't get aircraft because they didn't have the other positions modeled...lets not make a huge issue of this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like the Beaufighter no matter what.

But it'd be nice if he could call out bandits and break left or right stuff.

yes, as even Aces over Pacific, a 1991-92 vintage sim, had the gunner calling break left, right, but this takes to much PC power, be sure, to implement here:P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Uhh the gunner in the IL-2 does call out break right or left on occasion. More often he screams in terror, at least when I fly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

VW-IceFire
06-26-2005, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by idonno:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AviationArtist:
Unless of course he got posted to mime school instead of radio school by mistake by the air force http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

LOL!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I can see him now. Back there frantically trying to pantomime; LOOK OUT! WERE GONNA DIE! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! WHY ARE YOU STILL FLYING STRAIGHT AND LEVEL?! LISTEN TO ME!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Stupid mime training. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL! I will not be able to fly the Beaufighter with a straight face any longer.

KraljMatjaz
06-27-2005, 02:15 AM
What was this guy's job anyway? On other beaufighter versions he was a gunner, but this Aussie version has no gun, so? Observer or what? And, does he bail or is just a "part of AC" model? (to lazy to test myself)

Utchoud
06-27-2005, 04:22 AM
I think only the TF.Mk.X version was equipped with a single .303 Vickers gun in the turret.

"There she stood, sturdy, powerful, fearsome, surrounded by an enthusiastic crowd. Most of us admired from the outside as only those with influence or possessed of extreme cunning got inside.

(...)

For the gunners, however, there was a shattering disappointment. Where the turret should have been there was nothing but a plain, moulded dome of perspex. Here was our dream fighter. But where were the four free guns in the turret in the back that could fire forwards and upwards into the belly of an enemy bomber? There was not even a single free gun with which we could foster our delusion of usefulness.

(...)

'Where's the turret we've heard so much about?' I demanded.
Sandi was breathing hard. 'We've had that,' he grunted. 'The only gunnery we're likely to get will be this job.' He pointed at a row of 20mm ammunition drums set in racks above his head on either side of the cat-walk.
'From now on we're just powder monkeys,' Stan said. 'We're having a go to see how long it takes to reload.'

(...)

'How's the reloading going?' I asked.
Sandi was nursing one of the drums. 'These weigh sixty pounds each,' he said. 'God knows what it's going to be like hauling them out of the racks and fitting them on the cannon with all your kit on, oxygen tubes and phone cords and all...and in the dark.'
'And with the pilot going into a tight turn just as you get it off the rack,' Stan added. 'That'll make it weigh a darn sight more.'

(...)

I went back aft and wriggled into the seat under the dome and swung around to look out over the tail. There was a fine, unobstructed view all around above the horizon, and with a little squirming one colud even see into that old Blenheim danger spot below and behind.

(...)

I pulled the hatch open, dropped down on the ground, and walked around to the front of the aircraft. She was good, whichever way you looked at it, sturdy and aggressive, although perhaps a bit heavy. But the two gigantic Hercules engines with which she was powered, air cooled and close cowled, with their huge propellers, sweeping through a wide arc, could surely lift anything. From the tip of that forked aerial at the nose to her shapely rudder she was a beauty. I knew that somehow, as gunner, powder-monkey, operator, or stowaway, it did not matter which, I just had to fly in her."

C.F. Rawnsley, "Night Fighter"

x6BL_Brando
06-27-2005, 04:57 AM
C.F. Rawnsley, "Night Fighter"

Thanks for that Utchoud - I'd been looking for that piece too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It's clear that, gun or no gun, the tail position was of primary importance in the Beaufighter.

Certainly important enough to warrant a vocal warning from that position being added, even if the actual seat can't be modelled. Without it I'd say the plane is about 40% short of being finished http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

FliegerAas
06-27-2005, 05:22 AM
I may be wrong, but I think I remember that reargunners alarmed me when they saw enemy fighters. Was it in original IL2?...in some patch?...or only in my imagination? I don't know.

Anyways I agree! Reargunners and other crewman should alarm me when they spot an enemy...

WWSensei
06-27-2005, 05:42 AM
Obviously the trial of fielding blind, deaf and dumb observers and gunners was less than a smashing success...

zaelu
06-27-2005, 06:58 AM
Maybe that poor guy is just balancing the plane with his weight... in turns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

It would be fun if we have a control for eject crew only... "Buh bye sucka'!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Atomic_Marten
06-27-2005, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I guess there wasn't time to model the position back there. We've been told before that we wouldn't get aircraft because they didn't have the other positions modeled...lets not make a huge issue of this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like the Beaufighter no matter what.

But it'd be nice if he could call out bandits and break left or right stuff.

Yeah.. for example, Stuka's wireless operator was doing exactly that -- shouting and warning his pilot about enemy fighters. + he was armed with 7,62mm machine gun.

In game, if you got the rear gunner, you are aware of enemy presence when you hear your gunner firing .. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
And by that time it is usually too late. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Foo.bar
06-27-2005, 09:06 AM
LOL, idonno, funny (but serious) question! i permitted myself to translate that in German Forum (http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=59010161&f=388104122&m=4541009333&r=4541009333#4541009333). thanks!

Tater-SW-
06-27-2005, 09:15 AM
Hmmm, here is a "lateral thinking" idea for oleg.

AI gunners fire, and it makes a noise we can hear in the cockpit.

Tell the code the observer in the beau is a "gunner."

Set the weapon to fire NOTHING (a blank) at a very low ROF. Maybe 1 shot per minute. The sound file for this new "nothing" weapon sounds like "bogey, 6 o'clock" with a british voice.

We now have a useful observer.

tater

Atomic_Marten
06-28-2005, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Hmmm, here is a "lateral thinking" idea for oleg.

AI gunners fire, and it makes a noise we can hear in the cockpit.

Tell the code the observer in the beau is a "gunner."

Set the weapon to fire NOTHING (a blank) at a very low ROF. Maybe 1 shot per minute. The sound file for this new "nothing" weapon sounds like "bogey, 6 o'clock" with a british voice.

We now have a useful observer.

tater

Simple to implement (I believe) and very useful idea. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

IDF_Raam
06-29-2005, 12:17 PM
He is not useless, although I am not sure if he is blind or mute. Nice of him to volunteer to service, though.

waffen-79
06-29-2005, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Hmmm, here is a "lateral thinking" idea for oleg.

AI gunners fire, and it makes a noise we can hear in the cockpit.

Tell the code the observer in the beau is a "gunner."

Set the weapon to fire NOTHING (a blank) at a very low ROF. Maybe 1 shot per minute. The sound file for this new "nothing" weapon sounds like "bogey, 6 o'clock" with a british voice.

We now have a useful observer.

tater

Simple to implement (I believe) and very useful idea. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally agree with you guys

heloguy99
06-30-2005, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by IDF_Raam:
He is not useless, although I am not sure if he is blind or mute. Nice of him to volunteer to service, though.

Come on now, cut the guy a break. Maybe his ICS is just broken. It IS a British plane. Some poor mechanic probably said screw it when he found out the ICS box was in between the 2nd and third row of cylinders in the left engine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Aero_Shodanjo
06-30-2005, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by zaelu:
Maybe that poor guy is just balancing the plane with his weight... in turns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

It would be fun if we have a control for eject crew only... "Buh bye sucka'!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

I totally support this idea http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Aaron_GT
06-30-2005, 12:43 PM
I guess there wasn't time to model the position back there.

I'd heard that the 3D modellers did model it (as well as another Beaufighter version) but for some reason the observer position wasn't modelled in the sim. Perhaps the modelling wasn't up to scratch in some way?

Vengeanze
07-04-2005, 07:26 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/kennyeverett/gallery/images/340/14.jpg

pourshot
07-06-2005, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by heloguy99:

Come on now, cut the guy a break. Maybe his ICS is just broken. It IS a British plane. Some poor mechanic probably said screw it when he found out the ICS box was in between the 2nd and third row of cylinders in the left engine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well the Mk21 we have in this game was made in Australia not England http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Any way the Mk21 did have a rear gun, but it was rarely fitted due to a lack of need, the jap planes it faced were to slow to be much of a bother. Also it could be carried in the stowed position and made ready in around 30 seconds or so.

The key to spotting what mk21 could and could not use it is the shape of the rear dome. If it has the flat panel at the rear it could use it (like in this game), otherwise it was a more rounded shape.

DDad
07-06-2005, 02:17 PM
Why do the bloody Jerrys always attack while I'm enjoying a nice cuppa........."