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PrivateJ0ker
11-25-2007, 08:03 PM
Hey guys, just finished the game this morning and was overall pleased with the finale and the potential for sequels. During the final email log and mysterious writing sequence I thought of some ideas for sequels. (Not technical issues, just overall ideas for where to take the story and action).


First Idea:

Time traveling to ALTER (not ALtair!!) history. Obviously the modern time Assassin's guild is trying to stop the "Templar Corporation", what if Desmond in the sequel, as well as other members of the Assassins guild who have different genetic histories, all used the Animus to travel back in time to different ancient civilizations to assassinate people of significance to the Templar's cause...only to find that the present day reality becomes twisted by the alterations in history, transforming HQ and the reality of modern times, which includes some of the characters becoming new genetic variations of themselves, as well as the location of the Animus shifting through the world as its creation changes with the tidal waves of pre-history are altered.

Now heres a kicker and I actually think this may be include in the sequel. You find that Desmond and Lucy (and maybe some other genetic assassins and the like) are actually experiencing life through an even more advanced Animus in the distant future, hence they are using the Animus in the distant future (Lucy) to get the Desmond in the past (who ends up dying at the end of the triology and his family was killed, this his genetic legacy is destroyed...along with the only genetic code that contains the information about the rest of the lost artifacts). So in a sense they are using varying genetic paths to trace a descendant of Lucy back to Desmond so Desmond can trace back to his ancient past... get it? Hope you like my idea!

I also really hope they have futuristic assassinations in the present time (past of the distant future reality) and a new assassin that is used can scale you know...megaopolois sky scrapers and run amok on the streets admist high technology vehicles and futuristic people on the street.

Whatcha guys think about these ideas? Fun new ways to take the story?

A_Bird_Of_Prey_
11-25-2007, 09:08 PM
the second paragraph made my head hurt!!!! stop writing sooo much. ahhhhhhhh

dragdude1234
11-25-2007, 09:11 PM
Didnt take my time too rad it but,the animus IS NOT A TIME TRAVELING MACHINE!!!IT ONLY LETS YOU READ THE MEMORIES OF ANCESTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DO SOME RESEARCH!!!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

PrivateJ0ker
11-25-2007, 09:20 PM
It's genetic time traveling...I played the entire game, based on what the game reveals it isn't always a perfectly passive experience. Also please don't make spelling errors and type in "I AM SHOUTING THIS TEXT AT YOU" bold.

Tela
11-25-2007, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
It's genetic time traveling...I played the entire game, based on what the game reveals it isn't always a perfectly passive experience. Also please don't make spelling errors and type in "I AM SHOUTING THIS TEXT AT YOU" bold.

Desmond watches Altair's memories.
Desmond cannot interact/change anything in Altair's memories.
Desmond can only watch...

PrivateJ0ker
11-25-2007, 10:08 PM
Bull. You obviously are controlling the linear outcomes of each assassination. The game never directly states that the participant "cannot" control what occurs in the time traveling event. There is even a log where a person on a ship uses the Animus to find one of the artifacts, except the information was obtained by interacting with the past, which changed the present, almost creating a paradox.

You guys are WRONG.

DeAdLy2323
11-25-2007, 10:11 PM
actually you do control altair but only can control him at where he was at that time in the memory, they say in the game that desmond has a puppeteer control over his ancestor (then it explains the buttons to you) and can control him by free hand, weapon hand, feet, and head.
it says this in the tutorial....


also it is not time travel, but a look into his memory

PrivateJ0ker
11-26-2007, 02:56 PM
Yes, its true its his genetic memory, that the Animus enables him to relive...in effect sending him into the distant past. I'm really not here to argue semantics, as the Animus is a variation of the classic time machine. I'm hoping the sequel allows you to make alterations to the past, regardless of paradox, enabling the player to alter the present state, as manipulated when the player uses GENETIC TIME TRAVEL. Which is essentially the funtionality of the Animus, right?

AirRon_2K7
11-26-2007, 02:59 PM
You are WRONG. It is not time travel. Full stop.

PrivateJ0ker
11-26-2007, 03:41 PM
It is time traveling. Seems like IQs around here dropped severely recently. The whole point of the game is that your characters mind travels to the distant past using a genetic time machine, are there just a bunch of trolls here or something? I mean seriously, the main character travels into the distant past? Are you guys really that dumb?

Where are the intelligent constructive conversationalists around here?

Tela
11-26-2007, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
It is time traveling. Seems like IQs around here dropped severely recently. The whole point of the game is that your characters mind travels to the distant past using a genetic time machine, are there just a bunch of trolls here or something? I mean seriously, the main character travels into the distant past? Are you guys really that dumb?

Where are the intelligent constructive conversationalists around here?

It is in his MIND. He is watching and (to a very small extent) acting in, his ancestors MEMORIES. He changes nothing.

PrivateJ0ker
11-26-2007, 04:05 PM
His will and conciousness is transfered into Altair's mind. His existence is essentially transported into the distant past. Also with the cliff hanger we are presented with at the end, its actually somewhat arguable as to wether or not Altair changed anything. Think about he has direct control over a very powerful artifact, and Desmond exists in the mind of Altair, as Altair and makes the all the decisions the player can make. The past can be changed...the Assassin's creed itself "There is no truth, and everything is permitted" would support the possibility of time alterations. As in their is no truth to the past, and any action or change is possible.

Actiongeek
11-26-2007, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
His will and conciousness is transfered into Altair's mind. His existence is essentially transported into the distant past. Also with the cliff hanger we are presented with at the end, its actually somewhat arguable as to wether or not Altair changed anything. Think about he has direct control over a very powerful artifact, and Desmond exists in the mind of Altair, as Altair and makes the all the decisions the player can make. The past can be changed...the Assassin's creed itself "There is no truth, and everything is permitted" would support the possibility of time alterations. As in their is no truth to the past, and any action or change is possible. If the Anomus was a time machine they wouldn't have let ANYONE near it. *points to the laptops* read the e-mails! they're scared of the posabilities of a paradox if they do find a time traveling artifact.

ctuagent15
11-26-2007, 04:51 PM
No it not time travel, what it is that the animus machine does is take the genetic memory of your ancestor and makes a sort of video game, were you get to be your ancestor, reliving moments of his life and live those moments anyway you want, as long as the outcome is the same

Nothing you do in the animus machine is the way Altair did it, he did some of the same things but not in the same way, e.g. the information missions, but not like going around starting fights with any guards you see, I don't think a assassin would go around starting trouble like that before killing his target

The only moments that are true as to how they happened, apart from the fact you have limited movement in them, are the moments when it says accessing memory now recording (or something like that) and any conversations you have with key people

Like with the main assassinations you do, Altair may not have done them the same way, but as long as the outcome is the same, you gain access to the memory of the conversation he had with his victim before the victim died

Anyway this how I think it works, you can disagree if you want, I don't care
But it is not time travel

Tela
11-26-2007, 04:54 PM
To PrivateJ0ker: If everyone is saying one thing, and you are saying another...doesn't that tell you something? Have you considered that we are right, and you misinterpreted(spelling?) something in the game?

Consider this.

PrivateJ0ker
11-26-2007, 04:56 PM
Yea I read all the emails, it sounded like one of the test subjects DID alter history, and they had to abandon one of the artifacts in order to prevent a paradox.


Also I don't understand why you guys are unwilling to consider the Animus to be a form of a time machine. It takes the genetic memory and transports the person in the Animus directly into their ancestors existence.

Also it would seem (logically) that the Animus could compile someones Genetic code, allowing someone else to travel back into the period of the genetic memory, just a thought.

I like some of the responses, the lame, and utterly pointless contradictory posts really aren't worth much, lets have a real conversation about the game.

Tela
11-26-2007, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
Yea I read all the emails, it sounded like one of the test subjects DID alter history, and they had to abandon one of the artifacts in order to prevent a paradox.


Also I don't understand why you guys are unwilling to consider the Animus to be a form of a time machine. It takes the genetic memory and transports the person in the Animus directly into their ancestors existence.

Also it would seem (logically) that the Animus could compile someones Genetic code, allowing someone else to travel back into the period of the genetic memory, just a thought.

I like some of the responses, the lame, and utterly pointless contradictory posts really aren't worth much, lets have a real conversation about the game.

We are trying to explain something to you. You, however, are not listening. Listen more, and we might decide on a civilized(ha) conversation.

PrivateJ0ker
11-26-2007, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Tela:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
Yea I read all the emails, it sounded like one of the test subjects DID alter history, and they had to abandon one of the artifacts in order to prevent a paradox.


Also I don't understand why you guys are unwilling to consider the Animus to be a form of a time machine. It takes the genetic memory and transports the person in the Animus directly into their ancestors existence.

Also it would seem (logically) that the Animus could compile someones Genetic code, allowing someone else to travel back into the period of the genetic memory, just a thought.

I like some of the responses, the lame, and utterly pointless contradictory posts really aren't worth much, lets have a real conversation about the game.

We are trying to explain something to you. You, however, are not listening. Listen more, and we might decide on a civilized(ha) conversation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. You are an uncivilized troll, thanks for sharing that with us. ;P

Tela
11-26-2007, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tela:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
Yea I read all the emails, it sounded like one of the test subjects DID alter history, and they had to abandon one of the artifacts in order to prevent a paradox.


Also I don't understand why you guys are unwilling to consider the Animus to be a form of a time machine. It takes the genetic memory and transports the person in the Animus directly into their ancestors existence.

Also it would seem (logically) that the Animus could compile someones Genetic code, allowing someone else to travel back into the period of the genetic memory, just a thought.

I like some of the responses, the lame, and utterly pointless contradictory posts really aren't worth much, lets have a real conversation about the game.

We are trying to explain something to you. You, however, are not listening. Listen more, and we might decide on a civilized(ha) conversation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. You are an uncivilized troll, thanks for sharing that with us. ;P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Says who? YOU? I don't troll. It's pointless. Just because you disagree with something WE ARE ALL saying, doesn't mean that just little ol' me is a troll.

Please, PLEASE ...consider this.

Shadow112090
11-26-2007, 05:24 PM
the animus does not allow for time travel, but rather that artifact referd to does allow for it. so there may be a hint of time travel in the future, just not through the animus. the templars were scared of the artifact because they were worried about going back in time and possibly undoing something that would screw up the future, kinda like "A Sound of Thunder"

ctuagent15
11-26-2007, 05:54 PM
yep Shadow112090 is right time travel is possible with one of the artifacts, but not the animus, so yep one of the next games could have time travel in it

NeoshinobiX
11-26-2007, 06:27 PM
That is if the main character gets a hold of that artifact.

But yeah animus is not time travel, just a memory nothing more. Like the poster above me previously stated, Desmond does relive his ancestors memory. But he can NOT change the outcome. He HAS to kill those people, it's not a choice.

Think back when to when Desmond when was talking with vidic, he said some of the people Altair killed seemed like they shouldn't have died. If he could really alter the memory do you think he would have killed someone he thought should not have died.

Also a possibility for a sequel since we're on the subject of time travel is that Abstergo company does eventually take over the world by w/e artifact they use. The main character(who ever it ends up being) gains access by some means, to the artifact that allows you to travel in time. He/she then goes back and time and alters history to the point where Abstergo can no longer control the world.

avsrule247
11-26-2007, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
It is time traveling. Seems like IQs around here dropped severely recently. The whole point of the game is that your characters mind travels to the distant past using a genetic time machine, are there just a bunch of trolls here or something? I mean seriously, the main character travels into the distant past? Are you guys really that dumb?

Where are the intelligent constructive conversationalists around here?

It's not time travel. The developers even said it was not time travel. Time travel is when you physically go back in time reliving and possibly altering history. Reliving your genetic memory is basically watching a movie of your ancestor. PrivateJ0ker is a moron.

Tela
11-26-2007, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by avsrule247:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
It is time traveling. Seems like IQs around here dropped severely recently. The whole point of the game is that your characters mind travels to the distant past using a genetic time machine, are there just a bunch of trolls here or something? I mean seriously, the main character travels into the distant past? Are you guys really that dumb?

Where are the intelligent constructive conversationalists around here?

It's not time travel. The developers even said it was not time travel. Time travel is when you physically go back in time reliving and possibly altering history. Reliving your genetic memory is basically watching a movie of your ancestor. PrivateJ0ker is a moron. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
Thank you! Maybe he(or she?) will actually listen to YOU. Doesn't seem to like ME too much...

avsrule247
11-26-2007, 06:38 PM
I doubt they will listen to me. They seem pretty convinced by their moronic ideas.

NeoshinobiX
11-26-2007, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by avsrule247:
I doubt they will listen to me. They seem pretty convinced by their moronic ideas.

Your right, they just clearly don't understand that Desmond can't alter the memory even if he wanted to. I don't see why it is so hard to get.

But hey we have short buses for a reason.

Tela
11-26-2007, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by NeoshinobiX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avsrule247:
I doubt they will listen to me. They seem pretty convinced by their moronic ideas.

Your right, they just clearly don't understand that Desmond can't alter the memory even if he wanted to. I don't see why it is so hard to get.

But hey we have short buses for a reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

avsrule247
11-26-2007, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by NeoshinobiX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avsrule247:
I doubt they will listen to me. They seem pretty convinced by their moronic ideas.

Your right, they just clearly don't understand that Desmond can't alter the memory even if he wanted to. I don't see why it is so hard to get.

But hey we have short buses for a reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haha very nice...

LiquidKal
11-26-2007, 07:24 PM
I think It's been well established now that the TC's time travel idea is wrong. But I'd just like to add my understanding of exactly how the Animus works and why.

The Animus reads the genetic memory and renders them in 3D, allowing you to play through the memories like a video game. All Abstergo wants from those memories is the location of the artifacts that Altair sees at the end. But much like hypnosis you can't just jump directly to this final memory, Desmond's mind won't allow it. This is why you have to work through all the memories that lead up to it. Every time you do something significant to the memory, you synchronize more with Altair and gain access to the next memory. Everything you do in between these events is not what Altair specifically did, its just a means for Desmond to jump from one memory to another in a smooth way that his mind will accept. Time Travel is NOT a factor.


Time Travel however is possible in the Assassin's Creed universe and is mentioned in one of the emails. One of the artifacts that Abstergo has already found is capable of altering time. They experimented with it in 1943, an event we know as the Philadelphia Experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment). The email says that the ship briefly manifested in a future state for approximately 18 minutes. They learned this from Animus Subject 12, which is where you may be getting confused. They didn't use the Animus to time travel, only to learn from subject 12s genetic memory what happened during the Philadelphia experiment. The artifact was damaged in that experiment and they only recently learned how to repair it, but the Templars then decided the artifact was too dangerous to use due to fears of causing a paradox.

NeoshinobiX
11-26-2007, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by LiquidKal:
I think It's been well established now that the TC's time travel idea is wrong. But I'd just like to add my understanding of exactly how the Animus works and why.

The Animus reads the genetic memory and renders them in 3D, allowing you to play through the memories like a video game. All Abstergo wants from those memories is the location of the artifacts that Altair sees at the end. But much like hypnosis you can't just jump directly to this final memory, Desmond's mind won't allow it. This is why you have to work through all the memories that lead up to it. Every time you do something significant to the memory, you synchronize more with Altair and gain access to the next memory. Everything you do in between these events is not what Altair specifically did, its just a means for Desmond to jump from one memory to another in a smooth way that his mind will accept. Time Travel is NOT a factor.


Time Travel however is possible in the Assassin's Creed universe and is mentioned in one of the emails. One of the artifacts that Abstergo has already found is capable of altering time. They experimented with it in 1943, an event we know as the Philadelphia Experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment). The email says that the ship briefly manifested in a future state for approximately 18 minutes. They learned this from Animus Subject 12, which is where you may be getting confused. They didn't use the Animus to time travel, only to learn from subject 12s genetic memory what happened during the Philadelphia experiment. The artifact was damaged in that experiment and they only recently learned how to repair it, but the Templars then decided the artifact was too dangerous to use due to fears of causing a paradox.

Fact. Good job.

ctuagent15
11-27-2007, 12:37 PM
The Animus reads the genetic memory and renders them in 3D, allowing you to play through the memories like a video game. All Abstergo wants from those memories is the location of the artifacts that Altair sees at the end. But much like hypnosis you can't just jump directly to this final memory, Desmond's mind won't allow it. This is why you have to work through all the memories that lead up to it. Every time you do something significant to the memory, you synchronize more with Altair and gain access to the next memory. Everything you do in between these events is not what Altair specifically did, its just a means for Desmond to jump from one memory to another in a smooth way that his mind will accept. Time Travel is NOT a factor.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Yep this is how it works, but as I posted earlier explaining this and he wouldn't listen then, I doubt he will listen now

MiniAssasin
11-27-2007, 01:00 PM
ok listen

the animus isnt a time machine

it is a machine that renders desmonds dna, the parts where his ancesters genetic memory is stored into full 3d

so this enables the scientists to see what happened to desmonds ancester in the past. desmond is reliving his ancesters MEMORIES and has not mind travelled though time

its a computer simulation of what altairs decendant did. if he tries to go somewhere his ancester didnt he gets an error saying he cannot pass--the blue walls

if he tries to change anything drastic, liek slaughtering civilians he desyncs the memories and it resets back to the last stable memory.

think of it this way its like a dream, that desmond has controll over but the dream is controleld by a force that propells him down the right path, the animus renders this dream into 3d so the scientists can watch and record on their computers and finally get to see where the artifacts are

the things about timetravel paradoxes are talking about an artifact much liek the piece of eden which has nothing to do with the animus

Tela
11-27-2007, 01:04 PM
...I think the OP ran away....

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2007, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
Bull. You obviously are controlling the linear outcomes of each assassination.

Sorry but you're completely wrong. There is no time travel in the game. At no time in the game are we controlling anything beyond the synchronization with Altair's genetic memory. If we lose synch we lose track of Altair's true memory of the event and the Animus then takes us back to a point where we had proper synch so that we can try again to retain synchronization with the correct later genetic memory.

The whole point of using the Animus is to find out how the artifacts originally got lost. They can only do that by getting people whose ancestors had seen or touched the artifacts. The Animus allows the subject to access their genetic memories that lead to the memory of the artifact being lost. The Templars in 2012 have figured out that Desmond's ancestor Altair was the last person to see the 'Piece of Eden' artifact before it went missing. That's why they need to access Desmond's memory.

They are using Altair to help them find the artifact but Altair is not actually doing the finding. That's done by a Templar team on-site in the Middle-East in 2012.

Desmond can only access certain genetic memories with ease - usually memories that feel more natural to his character. Also, Lucy has been delaying the process, manipulating the Animus software to prevent Desmond from accessing memories closer to the loss of the artifact. That's why the Animus can't be used to go directly to the point where Altair last saw the artifact. He has to work through the memories until his own memories start to synchronize with Altair's. This allows Desmond to access later memories and it also results in his psyche merging with Altair's and taking on the characteristics of Altair to some extent. This is why at the end of the game he's skilled at pickpocketing and 'Eagle Vision'. It's also why the previous subject killed himself - because the bleed-through of memory from the ancestor tends to make the subject schizophrenic.

AirRon_2K7
11-27-2007, 02:21 PM
It's also why Altair is so cocky, and Desmond isn't. Desmond doesn't have any control over Altair's lips, and he obviously doesn't have any control over Altair's movements either.

Another game made by the same team helps us understand this: PoP Sands of Time.

You control Prince's actions, but not directly, if you mess up Prince says "ROFL U SUXORZ... TH4TS NOT WAT HAPPENED"... and you start again.

A bit of a weird comparison, but it's the same (overall) concept.

If it was time travel, do you really think *spoiler* that the Templars of the future would let Desmond kill their own, hindering their progress? Think stuff through before you call us ignorant, and worse.

Azzerwazzer1191
11-27-2007, 02:23 PM
yeah... its not time travel.... but maybe in a sequel we might see them build an "updated" version of animus comp, which is the same thing but can slightly alter the past... causing paradoxes and causes for another sequel...

please dont flame me btw.. i agree its not time travel..

NECESARY_EVIL
11-27-2007, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by AirRon_2K7:
"ROFL U SUXORZ... TH4TS NOT WAT HAPPENED"... and you start again.


Lol I still love that game.

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 05:54 PM
It's cute how a few internet cretins have formed a demented support group for each other in this thread (I'm not talking to all of you!).

The game does imply at points that are in effect changing history, such as Desmond's comments about certain events seeming to be different that they were supposed to be, or how Lucy states that Asbertago *SP* manipulated time in order to get her into their employ. This tiny consensus unfortunately falls flat on its face, and I am not wrong. The game is never inherently perfectly explicit about the full power of the Animus, but the game does tend to push towards the "Animus is a form of time travel" even if that isn't the most straight forward interpretation of the Animus technology.

Think of this VERY especially, lets say the genetic bleeding is a two way gateway into the past, and parts of Desmonds personality are transferred to Altair, in which case access to the artifacts in teh distant past, and more specifically an artifact that can shift total physical matter (not just genetic and concious imprints and forces of will through time) could be contacted through the use of the Animus, creating a possible technological paradox with the Animus, thus the use of the Animus can more absolutely create true time travel. This is no longer debatable, the Animus is a FORM of time travel, if not full temporal spatial transference, it does contact the past and could enable stricter forms of time travel, as indicated countless times in the games plot.

Lets not forget the Lucy example, the company obviously knew the FUTURE significance of Lucy, and were thus able to manipulate past events in order to bring her into their employ, explain that forum mongoloids (and the respectable posters as well). ;P

Its adorable how a bunch of low IQ forum mobsters start whipping out the "you are a dumb newbie moron face" comments, especially knowing they are fighting a losing battle. Thank you trolls, and sincerely thanks to do those that debated usefully.

MiniAssasin
11-27-2007, 06:37 PM
why are you still going on

its been stated by ubisoft that there is no time travel involved
the explanation at the start explains what the animus does
so does the manual

the bits where altair says things seem wrong are because the anims isnt perfect, and can be manipulated by lucy for example her adding an eagle to the viewpoints

bleeding occurs because the subject aka desmond in this case start to lose their personal identity due to excessive reliving of his ancesters memories thus the distinction for him and his ancester weakens, he starts to pick up his traits locked away in his genetics

joker, dude seriously replay the game
read all the info
listen to all the ubisoft interviews and read the manual
the artbook etc etc

you are wrong

NeoshinobiX
11-27-2007, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
It's cute how a few internet cretins have formed a demented support group for each other in this thread (I'm not talking to all of you!).

The game does imply at points that are in effect changing history, such as Desmond's comments about certain events seeming to be different that they were supposed to be, or how Lucy states that Asbertago *SP* manipulated time in order to get her into their employ. This tiny consensus unfortunately falls flat on its face, and I am not wrong. The game is never inherently perfectly explicit about the full power of the Animus, but the game does tend to push towards the "Animus is a form of time travel" even if that isn't the most straight forward interpretation of the Animus technology.

Think of this VERY especially, lets say the genetic bleeding is a two way gateway into the past, and parts of Desmonds personality are transferred to Altair, in which case access to the artifacts in teh distant past, and more specifically an artifact that can shift total physical matter (not just genetic and concious imprints and forces of will through time) could be contacted through the use of the Animus, creating a possible technological paradox with the Animus, thus the use of the Animus can more absolutely create true time travel. This is no longer debatable, the Animus is a FORM of time travel, if not full temporal spatial transference, it does contact the past and could enable stricter forms of time travel, as indicated countless times in the games plot.

Lets not forget the Lucy example, the company obviously knew the FUTURE significance of Lucy, and were thus able to manipulate past events in order to bring her into their employ, explain that forum mongoloids (and the respectable posters as well). ;P

Its adorable how a bunch of low IQ forum mobsters start whipping out the "you are a dumb newbie moron face" comments, especially knowing they are fighting a losing battle. Thank you trolls, and sincerely thanks to do those that debated usefully.

You have absolutely no god damn clue what your talking about kid. Did you even pay attention to what people said in that game?

Yes Desmond comments about events that his ancestor did. He said they seemed WRONG and didn't think those men should have been killed.
They were not different than they were supposed to be. The men were killed just like when his ancestor physically did it. Desmond just felt is was WRONG not different. The memory was the same as when Altair did it.

Abstergo did not manipulate time to get Lucy into the position in the company she is in. They set it up so all her professors discredited her, so she could not get a job anywhere. And when she became desperate to research her theory Abstergo Company picked her up. You were wrong about how lucy got into the company sorry go do the conversationalist achievement thanks.

The game is never perfectly explicit about the full power of the Animus? UM HELLO DID YOU LISTEN TO THE FIRST DAMN SCENE IN THE GAME?

They tell you EXACTLY how the hell the Animus works and functions. No, I'm sorry nothing about the animus hints that it is even possibly related to time travel.

Ok on to your second paragrouph. The bleed effect. You just made yourself sound stupid here. Want to know why? I'll explain and I will try to use small words. First off the bleeding effect is when the subject inside the animus spends so much time reliving the memories of his ancestor that their personalities blend together and the subject then sort of becomes their ancestor in a way(***SPOILER**desmonds eagle vision at the end of the game was Altair's past self merging with Desmond's mind).

It's not a two way gateway wanna know why? ALTAIR IS ALREADY DEAD. How in the hell can Desmond's personality blend with Altair when he isn't even alive anymore, and for that matter Altair didn't even use an animus unless they magically made one appear in 1191.

The Animus does not contact the past. It's a freaking memory kid. To Desmond it's like watching a movie. Desmond has no real control over Altair, he must do what Altair has already done.

No Altair did not use the artifact that enables you to time travel. If this was the case Abstergo wouldn't even exist as he would have obviously seen what is going on in the future.

Oh yeah if Desmond traveled back to 1191 then no one would speak english. It's the Animus translating the speech in the memory.

Closing statement: Pay attention more. Use more common sense. Know wtf your talking about. Go back to school. Drugs are bad. You suck at reasoning because of a major lack of knowledge in a matter. Fail.

Tela
11-27-2007, 06:54 PM
To PrivateJ0ker: So you didn't run off! And here I thought we had gotten through to you. Damn. Tell you something: I'm tired. I'm leaving this "discussion", because apparently you are unwilling to listen to reason. If EVERYONE ELSE is telling you that the ANIMUS IS NOT USED FOR TIME TRAVEL, and you're still pushing back, saying we're wrong...?

I leave. I'm tired of fighting your stubborn *** about this issue.

To everyone else: See? Told you he wouldn't listen!

LiquidKal
11-27-2007, 06:55 PM
Ok... wow.
Either your a Troll yourself who knows your mistaken and is just trying to get a rise out of people, or somehow you honestly believe the Animus is capable of time manipulation.

It isn't. Ubisoft have stated this many times before the game was even released. Never does it say so in the game. Desmond says that the events they are seeing don't match with historical data such as books. Vidic replies that books lie, people write down false information etc, but what the Animus shows you leaves no room for interpretation. I don't know where you got the idea that they manipulated time to employ Lucy, but they didn't. I can't provide details to prove it as my memory is fuzzy on exactly how they got Lucy, but I'm sure somebody else will fill in the gap. (Edit: They already have, 2 posts above.)

The game does however say what the Animus does (A genetic memory reading device), answering all the questions that could otherwise indicate time travel. Therefor time travel is not a factor.

I don't appreciate you calling the rest of us low IQ forum mobsters just because we think you are wrong. That is ignorance to the highest level. I think you're wrong, in fact i KNOW you're wrong but I would never say you have a low IQ. You're probably quite an intelligent person normally, but in this instance you are mistaken. Being unwilling to admit even the possibility of your own incorrectness is not a testament to your own intelligence. Everyone on this forum and even the developers themselves disagree with you. And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it impossible to be correct when the developers disagree with you, since its a fictional story that they created?

NeoshinobiX
11-27-2007, 07:03 PM
Every single time we post, he gets owned. This is getting sorta fun.

crashtest1977
11-27-2007, 07:10 PM
Well Guys I think we can all agree that PrivateJ0ker is in fact nothing but a joke so my comments are the animus is not a time machine but a very sophisticated piece of machinery able to read the genetic memory of a persons ancestor.

With this in mind i really hope that in the sequel we do not lose the character desmond as I feel it will lose its appea(ala HALO) especially with the way it ended, would be really good to have a continuance of the desmond lucy vidic story.

ElKvass
11-27-2007, 07:30 PM
Guys, time travel is impossible because time is a phenomenon created by man(tho it can be used in a game). Anyways back to the game, I do not agree with Joker because he is trying to create some sort of theory like these were real events. It's a game, it's created by a buch of people with an idea and their idea was not time travel...

And your theory about the genetic bleeding is complete nonsence. Desmond does not and can not affect Altair's mind because like previously stated Altair is dead. All the other test subjects clearly became scitzos because they were affected by their ancestor's personal qualities. Desmond has the ability to do the eagle eye thing in the end of the game and that shows that the exact same thing is happening to him. This is also why Lucy does not want Desmond to stay in the ANIMUS to long because she knows what it does to people.

Also like many other people have tried to explain to you in previous posts, the blue walls and loosing of sync is a clear indication that Desmond is not fully controlling Altair. The doctor wants Desmond to try harder to stay in sync with the genetic memory. When you kill a civilian, not a thing Altair would do, you loose sync. When you loose a fight, also not a thing Altair would do because he lived past that moment in real life, you lose sync. When you take a swan dive off a tall freaking building and smash face first into the ground, not a thing Altair would do because he lived, you LOSE SYNC!!! Get it? When you play it it's like Desmond tries to redo Altair's actions, and to do that he has to try and remember what Altair did, and that's done with the help of the ANIMUS. You see?!?! There is no friggin TIME TRAVEL! The ANIMUS just let's Desmond's mind gain access to his genetic memory...

I can see that you like to call people trolls and that they lack IQ, and yet you complain that they are calling you a n00b which in your book must be much worse. Again, you are creating theories beyond this spesific fictional story and you are on multiple occations proven wrong so just give in.

NeoshinobiX
11-27-2007, 07:41 PM
I can't wait til he responds again. It's like waiting for your birthday or christmas! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 07:43 PM
NeoshinobiX, now is about time for you to jump in front of a bus. I did not read the manual, nor did I follow any interviews, the Animus is a take on time traveling, and it was explicity referenced that Lucy's past was manipulated so that she would be channeled into the company's employ. What you heard in the interviews were the developers attempting to differentiate the Animus from that of normal time traveling, sure its a little bit different but its essentially been done before...in any film/book/game that has time traveling.

Beside the OP was about TIME TRAVELING in ASSASSINS CREED II, you just have all gotten off on trying to argue that the Animus in no way shape or frame represents time travel, when in fact it obviously does. Present day is 2100's and Altair's time period is the 1100's, Desmonds awareness and influence is transferred to that period (within the story, I know this is obviously a video game) and thus in some form time travel has occured. The genetic history could also be tampered with to control the artifact that can shift matter through time, thus opening up the possiblity for fully fledged time travel in a sequel.

So please before anyone contradicts me again, just know that you have a nice future full of virginity and "working for the man". :P
The trolls are biting it seems.

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 07:47 PM
The story is wildly fantastical and fictitious, the story itself including ALtair is completely implausible and most of the dialogue is stupid. Therefore we should not play this game. Thats how you are attempting to argue that the animus is not a form of time travel. Just say something isn't something, when it is completely fictitious to begin with...you guys must really hate playing the story template that the games open up.

Have fun being miserable,

Sincerely,

Your majesty the magnificient forum prostitute

NeoshinobiX
11-27-2007, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
NeoshinobiX, now is about time for you to jump in front of a bus. I did not read the manual, nor did I follow any interviews, the Animus is a take on time traveling, and it was explicity referenced that Lucy's past was manipulated so that she would be channeled into the company's employ. What you heard in the interviews were the developers attempting to differentiate the Animus from that of normal time traveling, sure its a little bit different but its essentially been done before...in any film/book/game that has time traveling.

Beside the OP was about TIME TRAVELING in ASSASSINS CREED II, you just have all gotten off on trying to argue that the Animus in no way shape or frame represents time travel, when in fact it obviously does. Present day is 2100's and Altair's time period is the 1100's, Desmonds awareness and influence is transferred to that period (within the story, I know this is obviously a video game) and thus in some form time travel has occured. The genetic history could also be tampered with to control the artifact that can shift matter through time, thus opening up the possiblity for fully fledged time travel in a sequel.

So please before anyone contradicts me again, just know that you have a nice future full of virginity and "working for the man". :P
The trolls are biting it seems.

K, last time the Animus does in no way shape or form permit time travel. It's memory get over it. When you remember when your father refused to rape you thats a memory not time travel. Animus is the same exact thing. Desmond is looking at memories he cannot access on his own because they are so imbeded in his DNA.

Abstergo did not go back in time to manipulate Lucy's future I do not know where in gods name you conjured that from.

Yes they manipulated it so she would become employed there. But not through time travel. They did it when she was in college, trying to debabte her research with other scientists. And when she was looking for a job to continue her research.

Did you hear yourself when you said the developers were trying to differeniate the animus from that of normal time traveling? Last time I checked there is no normal form of time traveling. Not in real life, not ever. Just theories.

K yeah it's not in the year near 2100's NOWHERE CLOSE, pay freakin attention to the signs on the walls. Subject 16 hinted that Abstergo would gain control of the world in 2012. So obviously it's not even close to the year 2012 yet. A more practical time base would be between 2008-2010.

No Desmond's awareness and influence is not being imprinted on the past. It already happened. He is looking at a movie what Altair did basically. No time travel. All he is doing is reliving key moments. He cannot change anything. The outcome will always be the same.

I do not discredit the possibility of time travel in the AC sequel however there is no time travel in any way, shape, or form in this game. And yes the developers said the Animus has nothing to do with time travel in this game.

I do apologize jumping infront of a bus would hinder my health.

So sorry but you've just been disproved yet again.

MiniAssasin
11-27-2007, 08:10 PM
hes just a dim as **** **** stop replying to him its obviously not getting through that thick head of his

hes doing it on purpose stop replying to him now

NECESARY_EVIL
11-27-2007, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
I did not read the manual, nor did I follow any interviews, the Animus is a take on time traveling, and it was explicitly referenced that Lucy's past was manipulated so that she would be channeled into the company's employ.

NO... sorry bud, but just NO. She said she WONDERED if the company had taken action IN THE PAST so that she would be unconsciously moved towards employment at their company. they did this in the past and had no need to go back in time to do it. (and even if they wanted to they can't because the animus doesn't do that.)

Now I know you posted in my quote that you did not follow the game with the attention span of a normal human being. But if you look back to your second post of this discussion you state that you followed the game well enough?... Well enough to draw a completely false conclusion I guess. You cannot go back in time other wise the templars would have gone back In time to the EXACT moment the piece of eden was revealed and learned all of the coordinates. so Yeah please enjoy (http://www.youfail.org)

LiquidKal
11-27-2007, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
The story is wildly fantastical and fictitious, the story itself including ALtair is completely implausible and most of the dialogue is stupid. Therefore we should not play this game. Thats how you are attempting to argue that the animus is not a form of time travel. Just say something isn't something, when it is completely fictitious to begin with...you guys must really hate playing the story template that the games open up.

Have fun being miserable,

Sincerely,

Your majesty the magnificient forum prostitute
I love the story of Assassin's Creed,
I would still love the story if it involved Time Travel.
In fact, I think it would be sweet if sequels did involve time travel as long as its done well.

But despite this, the Animus is not time travel related. Both Jade Raymond (Producer) and Patrice Desilets (Creative Director) have stated many times that the 1191 storyline is in no way a form of time travel. Then at the very start of the game they establish that its a memory being read from Desmond's DNA.

Desmond's consciousness is not being sent anywhere. He's play a game like simulation based on Altair's memories being read from his own DNA. Lucy was manipulated into working for them by sabotaging all her attempts at employment in other places. Why would you need time travel to achieve this? Ohh, and don't forget that Lucy oversaw the construction of the Animus. How could they use a device that didn't exist to alter the past and make her work for them so that it would exist?

So if you think that Patrice is lying to us, keeping in mind that he created the concept for the Animus and the entire storyline, then your deluded.


BTW, I still think you know we're right and are just trolling for kicks. I'm still here purely because I equally enjoy responding. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tela
11-27-2007, 09:05 PM
Is it possible to ignore the OP, and still talk about this subject? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by NeoshinobiX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
NeoshinobiX, now is about time for you to jump in front of a bus. I did not read the manual, nor did I follow any interviews, the Animus is a take on time traveling, and it was explicity referenced that Lucy's past was manipulated so that she would be channeled into the company's employ. What you heard in the interviews were the developers attempting to differentiate the Animus from that of normal time traveling, sure its a little bit different but its essentially been done before...in any film/book/game that has time traveling.

Beside the OP was about TIME TRAVELING in ASSASSINS CREED II, you just have all gotten off on trying to argue that the Animus in no way shape or frame represents time travel, when in fact it obviously does. Present day is 2100's and Altair's time period is the 1100's, Desmonds awareness and influence is transferred to that period (within the story, I know this is obviously a video game) and thus in some form time travel has occured. The genetic history could also be tampered with to control the artifact that can shift matter through time, thus opening up the possiblity for fully fledged time travel in a sequel.

So please before anyone contradicts me again, just know that you have a nice future full of virginity and "working for the man". :P
The trolls are biting it seems.

K, last time the Animus does in no way shape or form permit time travel. It's memory get over it. When you remember when your father refused to rape you thats a memory not time travel. Animus is the same exact thing. Desmond is looking at memories he cannot access on his own because they are so imbeded in his DNA.

Abstergo did not go back in time to manipulate Lucy's future I do not know where in gods name you conjured that from.

Yes they manipulated it so she would become employed there. But not through time travel. They did it when she was in college, trying to debabte her research with other scientists. And when she was looking for a job to continue her research.

Did you hear yourself when you said the developers were trying to differeniate the animus from that of normal time traveling? Last time I checked there is no normal form of time traveling. Not in real life, not ever. Just theories.

K yeah it's not in the year near 2100's NOWHERE CLOSE, pay freakin attention to the signs on the walls. Subject 16 hinted that Abstergo would gain control of the world in 2012. So obviously it's not even close to the year 2012 yet. A more practical time base would be between 2008-2010.

No Desmond's awareness and influence is not being imprinted on the past. It already happened. He is looking at a movie what Altair did basically. No time travel. All he is doing is reliving key moments. He cannot change anything. The outcome will always be the same.

I do not discredit the possibility of time travel in the AC sequel however there is no time travel in any way, shape, or form in this game. And yes the developers said the Animus has nothing to do with time travel in this game.

I do apologize jumping infront of a bus would hinder my health.

So sorry but you've just been disproved yet again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So Mr. Smart Alec, how do you know my dad didn't rape me in a time machine? ZING! ;P

Tela
11-27-2007, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeoshinobiX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
NeoshinobiX, now is about time for you to jump in front of a bus. I did not read the manual, nor did I follow any interviews, the Animus is a take on time traveling, and it was explicity referenced that Lucy's past was manipulated so that she would be channeled into the company's employ. What you heard in the interviews were the developers attempting to differentiate the Animus from that of normal time traveling, sure its a little bit different but its essentially been done before...in any film/book/game that has time traveling.

Beside the OP was about TIME TRAVELING in ASSASSINS CREED II, you just have all gotten off on trying to argue that the Animus in no way shape or frame represents time travel, when in fact it obviously does. Present day is 2100's and Altair's time period is the 1100's, Desmonds awareness and influence is transferred to that period (within the story, I know this is obviously a video game) and thus in some form time travel has occured. The genetic history could also be tampered with to control the artifact that can shift matter through time, thus opening up the possiblity for fully fledged time travel in a sequel.

So please before anyone contradicts me again, just know that you have a nice future full of virginity and "working for the man". :P
The trolls are biting it seems.

K, last time the Animus does in no way shape or form permit time travel. It's memory get over it. When you remember when your father refused to rape you thats a memory not time travel. Animus is the same exact thing. Desmond is looking at memories he cannot access on his own because they are so imbeded in his DNA.

Abstergo did not go back in time to manipulate Lucy's future I do not know where in gods name you conjured that from.

Yes they manipulated it so she would become employed there. But not through time travel. They did it when she was in college, trying to debabte her research with other scientists. And when she was looking for a job to continue her research.

Did you hear yourself when you said the developers were trying to differeniate the animus from that of normal time traveling? Last time I checked there is no normal form of time traveling. Not in real life, not ever. Just theories.

K yeah it's not in the year near 2100's NOWHERE CLOSE, pay freakin attention to the signs on the walls. Subject 16 hinted that Abstergo would gain control of the world in 2012. So obviously it's not even close to the year 2012 yet. A more practical time base would be between 2008-2010.

No Desmond's awareness and influence is not being imprinted on the past. It already happened. He is looking at a movie what Altair did basically. No time travel. All he is doing is reliving key moments. He cannot change anything. The outcome will always be the same.

I do not discredit the possibility of time travel in the AC sequel however there is no time travel in any way, shape, or form in this game. And yes the developers said the Animus has nothing to do with time travel in this game.

I do apologize jumping infront of a bus would hinder my health.

So sorry but you've just been disproved yet again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So Mr. Smart Alec, how do you know my dad didn't rape me in a time machine? ZING! ;P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...You sound like an interesting person, Hm? First you call yourself the "magnificent forum prostitute", and now your talking about the possibility of your father raping you?

....


Child...you have a disturbed mind. You should stay away from sharp objects...
...

...And forums.

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 09:12 PM
My theory still stands that the Animus can be used for time manipulation, and that the PRESENT that Desmond exists in may be a representation of the past through in an even more advanced Animus in the distant future.

Thank the trolls for being more coherent in the previous posts.

Yours truly,

The most majestic and most popular person (who does not get raped alot) in the entire forum.

PrivateJ0ker

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Tela:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeoshinobiX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
NeoshinobiX, now is about time for you to jump in front of a bus. I did not read the manual, nor did I follow any interviews, the Animus is a take on time traveling, and it was explicity referenced that Lucy's past was manipulated so that she would be channeled into the company's employ. What you heard in the interviews were the developers attempting to differentiate the Animus from that of normal time traveling, sure its a little bit different but its essentially been done before...in any film/book/game that has time traveling.

Beside the OP was about TIME TRAVELING in ASSASSINS CREED II, you just have all gotten off on trying to argue that the Animus in no way shape or frame represents time travel, when in fact it obviously does. Present day is 2100's and Altair's time period is the 1100's, Desmonds awareness and influence is transferred to that period (within the story, I know this is obviously a video game) and thus in some form time travel has occured. The genetic history could also be tampered with to control the artifact that can shift matter through time, thus opening up the possiblity for fully fledged time travel in a sequel.

So please before anyone contradicts me again, just know that you have a nice future full of virginity and "working for the man". :P
The trolls are biting it seems.

K, last time the Animus does in no way shape or form permit time travel. It's memory get over it. When you remember when your father refused to rape you thats a memory not time travel. Animus is the same exact thing. Desmond is looking at memories he cannot access on his own because they are so imbeded in his DNA.

Abstergo did not go back in time to manipulate Lucy's future I do not know where in gods name you conjured that from.

Yes they manipulated it so she would become employed there. But not through time travel. They did it when she was in college, trying to debabte her research with other scientists. And when she was looking for a job to continue her research.

Did you hear yourself when you said the developers were trying to differeniate the animus from that of normal time traveling? Last time I checked there is no normal form of time traveling. Not in real life, not ever. Just theories.

K yeah it's not in the year near 2100's NOWHERE CLOSE, pay freakin attention to the signs on the walls. Subject 16 hinted that Abstergo would gain control of the world in 2012. So obviously it's not even close to the year 2012 yet. A more practical time base would be between 2008-2010.

No Desmond's awareness and influence is not being imprinted on the past. It already happened. He is looking at a movie what Altair did basically. No time travel. All he is doing is reliving key moments. He cannot change anything. The outcome will always be the same.

I do not discredit the possibility of time travel in the AC sequel however there is no time travel in any way, shape, or form in this game. And yes the developers said the Animus has nothing to do with time travel in this game.

I do apologize jumping infront of a bus would hinder my health.

So sorry but you've just been disproved yet again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So Mr. Smart Alec, how do you know my dad didn't rape me in a time machine? ZING! ;P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...You sound like an interesting person, Hm? First you call yourself the "magnificent forum prostitute", and now your talking about the possibility of your father raping you?

....


Child...you have a disturbed mind. You should stay away from sharp objects...
...

...And forums. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahem, and for your information Ms. Tela, the tiny little girl with a pebble sized mind, NeoShinobiX made "rape references", and I was poking jest with him.

Tela
11-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
My theory still stands that the Animus can be used for time manipulation, and that the PRESENT that Desmond exists in may be a representation of the past through in an even more advanced Animus in the distant future.

Thank the trolls for being more coherent in the previous posts.

Yours truly,

The most majestic and most popular person (who does not get raped alot) in the entire forum.

PrivateJ0ker

Seriously?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Oh, I'm glad I stuck around after all! I sincerly hope all this was just you trying to be entertaining, cuz, you know... you succeeded. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by LiquidKal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
The story is wildly fantastical and fictitious, the story itself including ALtair is completely implausible and most of the dialogue is stupid. Therefore we should not play this game. Thats how you are attempting to argue that the animus is not a form of time travel. Just say something isn't something, when it is completely fictitious to begin with...you guys must really hate playing the story template that the games open up.

Have fun being miserable,

Sincerely,

Your majesty the magnificient forum prostitute
I love the story of Assassin's Creed,
I would still love the story if it involved Time Travel.
In fact, I think it would be sweet if sequels did involve time travel as long as its done well.

But despite this, the Animus is not time travel related. Both Jade Raymond (Producer) and Patrice Desilets (Creative Director) have stated many times that the 1191 storyline is in no way a form of time travel. Then at the very start of the game they establish that its a memory being read from Desmond's DNA.

Desmond's consciousness is not being sent anywhere. He's play a game like simulation based on Altair's memories being read from his own DNA. Lucy was manipulated into working for them by sabotaging all her attempts at employment in other places. Why would you need time travel to achieve this? Ohh, and don't forget that Lucy oversaw the construction of the Animus. How could they use a device that didn't exist to alter the past and make her work for them so that it would exist?

So if you think that Patrice is lying to us, keeping in mind that he created the concept for the Animus and the entire storyline, then your deluded.


BTW, I still think you know we're right and are just trolling for kicks. I'm still here purely because I equally enjoy responding. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See thats the best argument against the theory i made up, of anyone else in this thread.

Cheers; http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2007, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
The game does imply at points that are in effect changing history, such as Desmond's comments about certain events seeming to be different that they were supposed to be...

And then Lucy explains to him that the Animus adjusts the content of the memories, translating key words and phrases into English so that Desmond can understand them.


or how Lucy states that Asbertago *SP* manipulated time in order to get her into their employ.

She never says that. She says they manipulated events (not time). An evil and powerful corporation or secret society could easily manipulate present events so that a person is fired from certain jobs or so that she gets poor grades at school. That has nothing to do with time travel.


lets say the genetic bleeding is a two way gateway into the past, and parts of Desmonds personality are transferred to Altair...

But that's not the case. Altair is completely unaffected by the Animus because he is in the past. All we have are his memories.



the Animus is a FORM of time travel

No it isn't.


Lets not forget the Lucy example, the company obviously knew the FUTURE significance of Lucy, and were thus able to manipulate past events in order to bring her into their employ

No they didn't. They manipulated CURRENT events to bring a clearly talented computer programmer into their employ.


[here are all of your trolling responses in this thread] Bull... Seems like IQs around here dropped severely recently... are there just a bunch of trolls here or something?... Are you guys really that dumb?... Where are the intelligent constructive conversationalists around here?... the lame, and utterly pointless contradictory posts really aren't worth much... You are an uncivilized troll... It's cute how a few internet cretins have formed a demented support group... explain that forum mongoloids... Its adorable how a bunch of low IQ forum mobsters... Thank you trolls...

Hmmm. Clearly the abuse goes both ways and although you weren't the first to post a flame response you engaged in flaming wholeheartedly. If you have no respect for others how can others have it for you? Escalating the level of abuse doesn't help your argument.

As for your assertion that there's a clique of people who support each other on this issue, couldn't it also be that these people are not part of a conspiracy against you, and that they're merely trying to explain to you the workings of the Animus, which are clearly pointed out in the game and by the game's development team, and which don't involve time travel?

Triumvirated
11-27-2007, 09:27 PM
Ok guys, I'm starting to see what Joker is getting to. Very hilariously far fetched, BUT an Idea is an idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
See, he meant that perhaps e FUTURE has already had a hand in altering the CURRENT PRESENT of DESMOND. And that the TIME TRAVELLING he refers to of Animus is that of the future's. Makes sense? not really, but a tiny shred of intelligence is there.. He put alot of thought into that, give him credit.
Now joker, we're all just flaming you simply coz we wanna get the idea of the "ANIMUS NOT TIME TRAVELLING MACHINE" into your head. Its lik watching a interactive movie if you get my drift. Out come remains the same. Your hand is virtually there, and what you do only matters to the ending, which is fixed. Got that? We reply coz we want you to uds this, not coz ur popular.. That's just your delusion.
Aside from that, ur pt is valid.. to a certain minor extent. Cheers for that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2007, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
NeoshinobiX, now is about time for you to jump in front of a bus.

Completely uncalled for. Again, when you post nonsense like this it doesn't make anyone more willing to address your argument seriously.


...the Animus is a take on time traveling

A 'take' on it, yes - in that modern people can access memories in the distant past, yes. But that's not time 'travel'. It's 'time-vision' - like television in that you can see into the past. However you can't alter the past.


and it was explicity referenced that Lucy's past was manipulated so that she would be channeled into the company's employ.

Again, that's not true. During the years leading up to 2012 Lucy's situation (at the time that was her 'present' situation - not her past) was manipulated in order to bring her into the company's employ.


What you heard in the interviews were the developers attempting to differentiate the Animus from that of normal time traveling, sure its a little bit different but its essentially been done before...in any film/book/game that has time traveling.

This is why people are getting frustrated by your posts. You refuse to believe anything but your theory even though others have laid convincing evidence to the contrary down in front of you. For you this is not an argument - it's just you attempting to beat us over the head with your opinion.


Beside the OP was about TIME TRAVELING in ASSASSINS CREED II

It also stated quite clearly that "what if Desmond in the sequel... used the Animus to travel back in time ". The Animus, as everyone here is trying to tell you, is simply not a time machine. It's merely a 3D genetic code memory translator. It has the ability to examine genetic code and translate the genetic memories in that code into a 3D playback of the memory. It has nothing at all to do with time travel.


you just have all gotten off on trying to argue that the Animus in no way shape or frame represents time travel, when in fact it obviously does.

Based on what evidence? You keep saying this, but saying it doesn't make it true - especially when there's a huge amount of evidence that contradicts your assertions.


Present day is 2100's and Altair's time period is the 1100's, Desmonds awareness and influence is transferred to that period

No it isn't. The manual refutes your argument, the game itself refutes your argument and the developers refute your argument. Nothing is transferred to the 12th Century. The game clearly takes the notion that 12th Century memories have been transferred via the genetic code of every person on the planet. These memories can be accessed by the use of the Animus. No one and nothing goes back into the past.


...The genetic history could also be tampered with to control the artifact that can shift matter through time, thus opening up the possiblity for fully fledged time travel in a sequel.

Time travel may occur in the sequel through one of the artifacts, but it would have nothing to do with the Animus. Personally I think the premise behind the game is far MORE interesting than time travel, since it seems far more reasonable to have an insight into the past than it is to actually travel there, given the paradoxes and pitfalls that travel into the past sets up.


you have a nice future full of virginity and "working for the man". :P
The trolls are biting it seems.

Again, completely uncalled for. Personally I don't see why every reasonable person hasn't just consigned you to his or her 'ignore list'. Clearly you not only have no respect for any argument that contradicts yours but you also have no respect for the people on the forum. I have yet to post a flame or trolling comment in this thread, yet I find your posts laced with this kind of trash-talking. your flames may not be directed at me, but if I respond to your argument I'm forced to read them nonetheless. A good debater addresses the argument, not the person with whom he's arguing. Ad hominem is not a legitimate method in rational debate.

stix489
11-27-2007, 09:50 PM
If there is going to be a second Assassin's Creed, and if it is going to be set in the future...you're main assassination target will most likely be Vidic...and then the "gentlemen in the conference room". That's what I think!

Tela
11-27-2007, 10:01 PM
To PrivateJ0ker: I believe I have calmed down enough(anger-wise and amusement-wise) to take this a bit more maturely.

I am terribly sorry if I, in some way, offened you. I'm sorry if it seemed I insulted you, or did something else to, in turn, receive an insult from YOU. This was not my intention.

I'm sorry for any misunderstandings.

~Tela

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2007, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
My theory still stands that the Animus can be used for time manipulation

Explain to us, please, how a machine that examines genes and translates the genetic memories in those genes into a 3D playback of those memories could reasonably be expected to transport a person into the past. I've tried to imagine how but I can't figure it out. Expecting an Animus to work as a time machine is kinda like expecting a DVD player to work as a time machine. It's just not going to happen.


and that the PRESENT that Desmond exists in may be a representation of the past through in an even more advanced Animus in the distant future.

That would make sense only if you replaced the word 'Animus' in that sentence with the phrase 'Time Machine'.

A more advanced Animus would, at most, be able to playback genetic memories without needing a person to access his genetic memory. In other words, an advanced Animus could create a full and genuine playback from a piece of genetic material - a hair or a piece of skin for example. That is the ultimate form of an Animus machine. It has nothing to do with time travel.

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 11:12 PM
BeerYus, you just fell for a red herring. The whole point of the thread was to come up with creative ideas as to the context of what was setup for sequels.

What ancient civilizations would you guys like to explore? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PrivateJ0ker
11-27-2007, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Tela:
To PrivateJ0ker: I believe I have calmed down enough(anger-wise and amusement-wise) to take this a bit more maturely.

I am terribly sorry if I, in some way, offened you. I'm sorry if it seemed I insulted you, or did something else to, in turn, receive an insult from YOU. This was not my intention.

I'm sorry for any misunderstandings.

~Tela

Appology accepted.

Now who wants to do modern day assassinations...while climbing sky scrapers with an augmented assassin, coupled with plenty of historical assassination missions in different ancient civilizations?

Tela
11-27-2007, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tela:
To PrivateJ0ker: I believe I have calmed down enough(anger-wise and amusement-wise) to take this a bit more maturely.

I am terribly sorry if I, in some way, offened you. I'm sorry if it seemed I insulted you, or did something else to, in turn, receive an insult from YOU. This was not my intention.

I'm sorry for any misunderstandings.

~Tela

Appology accepted.

Now who wants to do modern day assassinations...while climbing sky scrapers with an augmented assassin, coupled with plenty of historical assassination missions in different ancient civilizations? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...I'd rather see Altair again. And have the game based more in the past. But, then again...I always did like the past more....so much more interesting...

altair4o
11-27-2007, 11:21 PM
http://enigma.dune.net/~eric/Do-not-feed-the-troll.PNG

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2007, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
BeerYus, you just fell for a red herring.

Eh? Does that mean you're admitting that you've been playing the fool? If so, I think that's the final straw, at least for me.


The whole point of the thread was to come up with creative ideas as to the context of what was setup for sequels.

I find that kinda hard to believe. To me it seems that the point of the thread was to beat us up with your mistaken ideas about the plot and then call us names when we tried to point out your mistake. That may not have been the point of the OP, but it's certainly what the thread devolved into.

Since you again failed to respond or acknowledge the points I made, it seems to me you're not much use in this or any other discussion. Bye troll - you go on ignore. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

dirtybird21
11-28-2007, 12:46 AM
I've read pretty much all posts, This will be my first and PROBABLY last post in this thread...


First off... The Animus is not time travel, The devs specifically said it wasn't and noone besides you and a couple other people that PLAY the game said that it is time travel.

If you seriously consider the Animus time travel, Then that would mean you consider watching a movie made 10 years ago time travel, or any TV channel aside from live broadcasts. Because you are basically doing the EXACT same thing: Watching something that isn't happening right this second.

In short... The Animus just doesn't need a camera... It takes memories and generates a 3d picture, This is shown even more in the very beggining of the game, You know how you can remember a person.. And see that person... But you can't EXACTLY remember their face/hair. Or you can remember basically what they said but not the exact words? That's basically what is happening in the beggining... He is trying 2 remember but he just can't GET there... And that's the whole point of you not being able 2 kill random people and having 2 restart when you "desynchronize".

MiniAssasin
11-28-2007, 03:45 AM
you know joker just admitting your wrong is a whole lot easier than making out that you had other reasons for making the thread

you clearly thought the animus was a time travel device and now your coming up with a story of it was to think up ideas for future games

im not buying it

AirRon_2K7
11-28-2007, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
BeerYus, you just fell for a red herring. The whole point of the thread was to come up with creative ideas as to the context of what was setup for sequels.

What ancient civilizations would you guys like to explore? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yeah, 'cos that's why you insulted out IQs... 'cos you were trying to 'fool' us. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif


Get over yourself.

NeoshinobiX
11-28-2007, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Tela:

...I'd rather see Altair again. And have the game based more in the past. But, then again...I always did like the past more....so much more interesting...

Same, It would be a shame if Altair was cut off so soon. He was so badass. Giving him a part as short as that would be a waste of a wonderful character.

Not to sure how the sequel would deal with how modern the world is now. I mean common, we have guns, the army, cars.

Seems really hard to make desmond be able to act like Altair and assassinate people. Seriously if you saw some guy jumping around buildings today what would you think? Nothing would be subtle about that! XD It'd be like a rip off of spider man.

I would be more interested in learning about the first 16 subjects, Lucy, her friend, and Abstergo.

Time travel is hard to imagine if used in any other way than that one artifact.

xELITEGUNNERx
11-28-2007, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
Hey guys, just finished the game this morning and was overall pleased with the finale and the potential for sequels. During the final email log and mysterious writing sequence I thought of some ideas for sequels. (Not technical issues, just overall ideas for where to take the story and action).


First Idea:

Time traveling to ALTER (not ALtair!!) history. Obviously the modern time Assassin's guild is trying to stop the "Templar Corporation", what if Desmond in the sequel, as well as other members of the Assassins guild who have different genetic histories, all used the Animus to travel back in time to different ancient civilizations to assassinate people of significance to the Templar's cause...only to find that the present day reality becomes twisted by the alterations in history, transforming HQ and the reality of modern times, which includes some of the characters becoming new genetic variations of themselves, as well as the location of the Animus shifting through the world as its creation changes with the tidal waves of pre-history are altered.

Now heres a kicker and I actually think this may be include in the sequel. You find that Desmond and Lucy (and maybe some other genetic assassins and the like) are actually experiencing life through an even more advanced Animus in the distant future, hence they are using the Animus in the distant future (Lucy) to get the Desmond in the past (who ends up dying at the end of the triology and his family was killed, this his genetic legacy is destroyed...along with the only genetic code that contains the information about the rest of the lost artifacts). So in a sense they are using varying genetic paths to trace a descendant of Lucy back to Desmond so Desmond can trace back to his ancient past... get it? Hope you like my idea!

I also really hope they have futuristic assassinations in the present time (past of the distant future reality) and a new assassin that is used can scale you know...megaopolois sky scrapers and run amok on the streets admist high technology vehicles and futuristic people on the street.

Whatcha guys think about these ideas? Fun new ways to take the story?


i wasn't pleased with the ending 1st it took me about half and hour to find the writing in the bedroom and i really wanted the assassins trying o rescue u to give u a gunn so u could shoot the **** out of every1 or even altair comes out of the animus and stabbs every thing

NECESARY_EVIL
11-28-2007, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by PrivateJ0ker:
My theory still stands that the Animus can be used for time manipulation, and that the PRESENT that Desmond exists in may be a representation of the past through in an even more advanced Animus in the distant future.

Thank the trolls for being more coherent in the previous posts.

Yours truly,

The most majestic and most popular person (who does not get raped alot) in the entire forum.

PrivateJ0ker

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif I don't know how you can think that.

Tela
11-28-2007, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by NeoshinobiX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tela:

...I'd rather see Altair again. And have the game based more in the past. But, then again...I always did like the past more....so much more interesting...

Same, It would be a shame if Altair was cut off so soon. He was so badass. Giving him a part as short as that would be a waste of a wonderful character.

Not to sure how the sequel would deal with how modern the world is now. I mean common, we have guns, the army, cars.

Seems really hard to make desmond be able to act like Altair and assassinate people. Seriously if you saw some guy jumping around buildings today what would you think? Nothing would be subtle about that! XD It'd be like a rip off of spider man.

I would be more interested in learning about the first 16 subjects, Lucy, her friend, and Abstergo.

Time travel is hard to imagine if used in any other way than that one artifact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As much as I like the idea of AC2 being based in ANY past, I love the setting of the first(in the past, Altair's time), and the characters. I want to know what happened to Altair and the Piece of Eden he had, after the game. They're not very specific in the "attachment".