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609IAP_Recon
10-18-2004, 07:21 PM
In preparation for PF, been flying our AEP zero - and I'm surprised that the zero roll rate is so bad considering it was such an agile aircraft.

Is this correct? I'd be curious to know from some of our experts.

609IAP_Recon
10-18-2004, 07:21 PM
In preparation for PF, been flying our AEP zero - and I'm surprised that the zero roll rate is so bad considering it was such an agile aircraft.

Is this correct? I'd be curious to know from some of our experts.

SkyChimp
10-18-2004, 07:36 PM
Zeke's roll rate seems to have been it Achilles Heel.

Early in the Pacific War, American pilots discovered, long before a Zeke had been tested, that they seemed to roll poorly at high speeds. Wildcat pilots, flying a plane that didn't roll all that well itself, found that at high speeds in a dive they could simply roll out and evade the Zeke.

During the tests of the Koga Zero, certain observations were made:

1) Despite the fact that the Japanese had a poor reputation for quality control, the Koga Zero was a "carefully constructed and well equipped fighter."

2) At 200 Knots, the rate of roll was less than that of the Wildcat. At 250 kts, fast rolls were found to be "physically impossible."

3) The F4F was found to accelerate faster in a dive, and could twist and roll which the Zero could not follow.

VMF513_Sandman
10-18-2004, 07:49 PM
translation: zero's must be at a slow airspeed to use its roll rate to maximum effect....something that the onliners wont do anyway http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Stiglr
10-18-2004, 09:02 PM
This is true. The Zero's roll rate worsened considerably at speed, due in part to its very large control surfaces.

In fact, once the Zero that crashed in the Aleutians was tested by the Americans, they instructed pilots to dive and roll when a Zero was on their tail, especially to the right, since that was also against the engine torque. It became a standard Zero evasive (provided one had enough airspace to dive in).

There is nothing more frustrating when piloting a Zero than to have a plane just out of your gunsight, and because your plane has locked up due to high speed, you can't get thae pipper on target.

LeadSpitter_
10-18-2004, 09:27 PM
its the only correct one in game, if you look at the roll charts the difference between the 190 "best roller low and mid speed only the p47 out rolled it at top speed but not lower speed. then the zeros which was the poorest roller at high speed and not very great low speed.

the thing thats wrong is the margin between the best and worst which is only certain degrees a sec in here you can get 4 rolls in a 190 to one complete zero roll mid to top speed. If you guys remember version 1.0 the p40 and p47 were the same way. The p47 certainly does not have a faster roll then the 190 at 560+kmph like it should

but realisms out the window here and not much being done to fix fms or dms, its still a great game and lots of fun. But as for a realistic sim there is none still, xplane is the only one i seen that comes close.

As many of the real pilots who flown FB AEP and have experience in a few of the aircraft in game.

they say with joystick inputs of in icrements to 30 max , full filtering and deadzone at 50% FB aircraft still respond much to quickly.

oleg also makes the most unstable gunplatforms like the zero the most stable and makes the 190 p47 p38 the most unstable which had the best gun platforms.

So all i can say is purchase sourced documented dated data and send it to oleg for him to tell you the datas wrong and propaganda

WUAF_Badsight
10-18-2004, 09:55 PM
the Zero rolls too slow under 280 km/h

this is done to compensate for its high speed roll rate (which was really bad IRL)

its a limitation of the FB game engine

all eyes on the new guy BoB

WUAF_Badsight
10-18-2004, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Recon:
I'm surprised that the zero roll rate is so bad considering it was such an agile aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
if FB is correct . . . . . then the Zero doesnt deserve its reputation of being a supreme DogFighting plane at all

VF-3Thunderboy
10-18-2004, 10:03 PM
At low speeds the A6M5 Rolls at around 4.75 seconds. That is from an actual video of the only flying authentic zero in California. So its actually Faster than most US aircraft. But I dont know how the FM is programed, or if this could be duplicated, or if anyone cares. Ive posted on refrence sources alot with no response. A HUGE part of the problem is P-Factor in the prop, which is not modeled.

The CFS 1% Zero has this modeled fairly well. Add P-factor/torque, and youd have it in CFS2.

muHamad-ALi
10-18-2004, 11:53 PM
fix the roll rate.

BANZAi !!!